[Archived] Slightly OT John Williams questions

[Baggie192]

Evening lads sorry to bother you But Pulis has had three wins in 22 games that puts his record in the bottom four WBA managers of all time with Denis Smith, Alan Buckley and Bobby Gould. It looks unlikely to improve. My double question is Is williams likely to act and if he does will have a decent back up plan? Pulis is close to untenable now it may come from the owner. Sorry to bother you thanks for any help

[Ozz]

John knew how vital Premier League football was to Rovers. If he felt continuing with a current manager meant relegation was likely he would pot him-See Paul Ince. 

Bit different with Pulis as his track record and experirnce buys him time, but Williams is a savvy administrator and I would back him to make the right call.

[T4E]

Yes he will act. Have fun with Big Sam. 

[Tom]

One of his few flaws was potentially being too nice, he could have acted on Ince earlier than he did, not sure he likes sacking people!

imagine if he had a replacement lined up he would act then though 

[Hasta]

Made a massive mistake in hiring Paul Ince at Ewood after Hughes walked out on us. However was quick to recognise that mistake and get rid. Fall back plan was Big Sam, who he never wanted sacked at Ewood. I'd imagine that would be your number one backup plan.

I thought there was no love lost between Pulis and Williams so it wouldn't surprise me that, if the crowd had turned, West Brom acted as Williams knows that survival is precious for clubs like ours. I also doubt JW would allow it to be played out in the media before it happened.

 

[jim mk2]

Williams does delay making decisions. He should have sacked Souness long before the Scot made the decision for him by going to Newcastle and should have axed Ince earlier when it was obvious he was not up to the job. That said, he generally gets managerial appointments right so it's likely he's looking for a successor to Pulis now before pulling the plug. Don't expect anything to happen soon though, especially if you're not in danger of going down. Williams could do his old club a favour too by sending Pulis to Ewood to replace Mowbray. 

[JHRover]

In 10 years + at Rovers he didn't have many managerial decisions to make. I'm not sure on the ins and outs of the Souness appointment but think that took place prior to Jack Walker's death and I'm not sure who was responsible for that appointment. He then had Souness for 4 years before he walked out. He pulled off a good appointment with Hughes which reaped dividends for a further 4 years before his resignation occurred. He made a big mistake with Ince when Allardyce was available but fans were moaning about Allardyce so he tried something different, but at least he recognised a mistake had been made and made up for it with the eventual Allardyce appointment. 

So really in all his time at the club we were only in dire straits the once under Ince and he sorted that issue out. Difference of course between Pulis and Ince.

I think he'll know that there's little to no chance of relegation occurring under Pulis and won't pull the trigger on him unless the owner intervenes. He might face more pressure at the end of the season if things haven't gone well and the fans/owners aren't happy with the performance, after that I can't imagine which way he would turn as the managerial world has changed radically since he was making decisions in 2008.

[blueboy3333]

Tricky one. Williams always seemed very pragmatic, and the pragmatists favourite managers are always Allardyce and Pulis.  It will be different for you because you probably pay to watch soul-destroying dross most weeks, but Williams is paid to keep the team in the Prem. Unless there is a massive revolt amongst the fanbase (and rumour has it Williams bowed to fan pressure not to appoint Allardyce when he appointed Ince) he'll maintain the status quo until Pulis has you adrift at the foot of the table and all that TV money is in doubt.

I'm normally wrong so they'll sack him tomorrow.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, JHRover said:

In 10 years + at Rovers he didn't have many managerial decisions to make. I'm not sure on the ins and outs of the Souness appointment but think that took place prior to Jack Walker's death and I'm not sure who was responsible for that appointment. He then had Souness for 4 years before he walked out. He pulled off a good appointment with Hughes which reaped dividends for a further 4 years before his resignation occurred. He made a big mistake with Ince when Allardyce was available but fans were moaning about Allardyce so he tried something different, but at least he recognised a mistake had been made and made up for it with the eventual Allardyce appointment. 

So really in all his time at the club we were only in dire straits the once under Ince and he sorted that issue out. Difference of course between Pulis and Ince.

I think he'll know that there's little to no chance of relegation occurring under Pulis and won't pull the trigger on him unless the owner intervenes. He might face more pressure at the end of the season if things haven't gone well and the fans/owners aren't happy with the performance, after that I can't imagine which way he would turn as the managerial world has changed radically since he was making decisions in 2008.

Where you say " fans were moaning " should really say " some fans were moaning " . Some of us had more sense and didn't have any illusions about our place in the football pecking order.

[Baggie192]

Pulis has taken shots at Williams the fans and the owner in the past. They've backed him to the hilt last summer. All the stuff that worked before isn't now. It is getting toxic. Lai trusts Williams to do the chairman's job he's good in the fact so far he's been hands off. Altough early we're basically in a relegation battle we haven't been unlucky we've been the "Dizzling wotsits" as it were. We're unwatchable. the grounds half empty as nobody enjoys it. anyway sorry for burdening you with our troubles and thank for the help

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Baggie192 said:

Pulis has taken shots at Williams the fans and the owner in the past. They've backed him to the hilt last summer. All the stuff that worked before isn't now. It is getting toxic. Lai trusts Williams to do the chairman's job he's good in the fact so far he's been hands off. Altough early we're basically in a relegation battle we haven't been unlucky we've been the "Dizzling wotsits" as it were. We're unwatchable. the grounds half empty as nobody enjoys it. anyway sorry for burdoning you with our troubles and thank for the help

Ah , that's a whole different story. If Pulis is falling out with everyone, he's not winning games and the fans have stopped turning up then it's only a matter of time surely?

Do you want Mowbray back?

[J*B]

Will he act? Enjoy Big Sam my friend. 

[chaddyrovers]

Baggie192, it is John Williams's decision to sack Pulis or your owner decision?

Would you like to see Pulis sack and who would you like to replace him?

[davulsukur]

Williams will have a backup plan, he’s not on the level that Venkys operate on.

If it’s his choice and he decides to pull the trigger, he will have a few names in mind. As others have said, Allardyce would likely be top of that list. Whether Allardyce would go, who knows? 

[tomphil]

He might be prone to a bit of over loyalty and he'd certainly give someone like Pulis every opportunity to turn it around but if the decision is his to make he'll have a timescale in mind I reckon and he'll act when he has to but not until then.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Big Sam might be tempted, he's from Dudley I believe.

[AllRoverAsia]

54 minutes ago, Skiptonrover said:

Not yet he won't he's under a bonus clause.

Pulis? He has a bit of previous of claiming any bonuses on offer.

 

3 hours ago, Baggie192 said:

Pulis has taken shots at Williams the fans and the owner in the past. They've backed him to the hilt last summer. All the stuff that worked before isn't now. It is getting toxic. Lai trusts Williams to do the chairman's job he's good in the fact so far he's been hands off. Altough early we're basically in a relegation battle we haven't been unlucky we've been the "Dizzling wotsits" as it were. We're unwatchable. the grounds half empty as nobody enjoys it. anyway sorry for burdening you with our troubles and thank for the help

That suggests Pulis is looking for a way out financially favourable to him.

[jim mk2]

4 hours ago, Baggie192 said:

Pulis has taken shots at Williams the fans and the owner in the past. They've backed him to the hilt last summer. All the stuff that worked before isn't now. It is getting toxic. Lai trusts Williams to do the chairman's job he's good in the fact so far he's been hands off. Altough early we're basically in a relegation battle we haven't been unlucky we've been the "Dizzling wotsits" as it were. We're unwatchable. the grounds half empty as nobody enjoys it. anyway sorry for burdening you with our troubles and thank for the help

 

I noticed there were lots of empty spaces for the Man City game last weekend. Unless results pick up dramatically Pulis looks a goner from what you say. 

[RevidgeBlue]

John is an extremely competent administrator who generally did very well for us here. However he is an absolute master of spin, PR, and managing expectation so if its anything like his time here he'll have been trying to convince disgrunrled  Baggies fans they've never had it so good by having x number of years in the Premiership, and that standing still is an achievement for a club of West Brom's size, and that when money isnt spent window after window they're keeping their powder dry etc etc.

He is also an arch pragmatist. If the ultimate decision to sack or not is up to him and it looked like Pulis was going to keep you 12th - 15th in the Premiership I suspect you'd be waiting a very long time indeed for him to be sacked. They'd probably have to carry Pulis out in a wooden box no matter  how dire the spectacle in rhe meantime.

If however it looked like there was a genuine danger of relegation and the TV money being lost then he would probably act extremely quickly.

Of course, the ultimate decision may well lie with the owners. If the ground is emptying at a rate of knots then they may panic quicker than John who I would imagine would take the view that Baggies fans should be grateful to be an establshed lower mid table Premiership Club.

[Vinjay]

Contrast that to the comments made in 1998 when he stated "we must see ourselves as being Lancashire". That changed to repeatedly calling a big town a small town with no mention of marketing across the whole county. Wonder who may have influenced that change of philosophy? 

Lai seems to be OK (though boring) and its not like he's really broken any promises. Unlike the owners Williams had to work with here after Jack died. Having Pulis/Megson in what is supposed to be an entertainment business is asinine. Seriously they can't find someone with a personality who won't bore their fans to death?

Of course the key note is that its not Williams decision. Even here the appointments (Souness was with Jack's blessing so not including that) were probably made with additional input from Finn, Coar, etc. The trustees probably sent one text to OK an appointment.

[JHRover]

Back in 2004 and 2008 when we appointed inexperienced British managers to the job it was a more 'done thing' with few eyebrows raised that an established successful top flight club would give a chance to someone with no experience in the division. Likewise 'going foreign' was much less frequent than it is today. Back then it was only really Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs/Liverpool who were bringing in the foreign coaches, whereas today its nearly everyone.

So it will be interesting to see what happens there. I still think Pulis will keep Albion up with ease although he might walk away/mutual consent it in the summer if Albion are bored with him and there's been no progress. He's no stranger to sudden acrimonious departures from clubs either.

Will Williams use the Rovers template and hire young/British, go with the Allardyce template of tried tested and safe pair of hands or gamble on a foreigner?

When we appointed Ince it was a ridiculous decision. Imagine today West Brom or Stoke appointing Nathan Jones or Paul Tisdale to replace Pulis/Hughes. Its that much of a jump up.

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 hours ago, Skiptonrover said:

Stop teasing you know.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/apr/27/newsstory.sport1

Mad stuff. Do managers get money for selling players? 

Giving evidence on the third day of his wrongful dismissal suit against the club, Pulis said he was "angry and frustrated" after hearing on the morning of May 26 that £62,000 he had been paid in lieu of changes to his contract had been withdrawn from his pension fund. In addition to the £62,000, Pulis said he was owed around £140,000 from the sale of Ade Akinbiyi, James Corbett and Iffy Onuora, making a rough total of £200,000.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It's very strongly rumoured on the Rochdale site  that Keith Hill is on a cut of all outgoing transfer fees.

[blueboy3333]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Mad stuff. Do managers get money for selling players? 

Giving evidence on the third day of his wrongful dismissal suit against the club, Pulis said he was "angry and frustrated" after hearing on the morning of May 26 that £62,000 he had been paid in lieu of changes to his contract had been withdrawn from his pension fund. In addition to the £62,000, Pulis said he was owed around £140,000 from the sale of Ade Akinbiyi, James Corbett and Iffy Onuora, making a rough total of £200,000.

I think a lot of managers have clauses saying they get a cut on the profit made on players they develop or sign and sell for a profit. The James Corbett mentioned is the one we signed from Gillingham. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Corbett

[Bigdoggsteel]

Pulis to be sacked with Michael O'Neill to come in. You heard it here first