[Archived] Rochdale v Rovers Tuesday 7th Nov.

[RV Blue]

Another thing I will say is that Harper will be playing regularly in the Premier League in a few years time, he might not be ready yet but I'd give him a go in the league as there isn't really anyone keeping him out, is there?

[bob fleming]

9 hours ago, booth said:

A jar of Nutella has more chance of making 25 starts.

In all fairness that's probably depending on who the jar of Nutella's agent is.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I was expecting to see Tomlinson play. I wasn't overly impressed with Harper, he never really joined up with the forwards all night, neither did Smallwood for that matter. That left Samuel and Nuttall at first and then Nuttall isolated with a gaping chasm in the attacking midfield position. Just lumping the ball up to them from distance won't work in this league. That's meat and drink to the big and daft centre halves in this league. To be honest I can't see Nuttall and Samuel working as a pair unless we can play somebody to get nearer to them who can then set up play. They are just too similar in style. I'm afraid you have to play one or the other along with probably Dack if we're going to play with two central midfield players who never get into the final third of the pitch.

I only saw Wharton play for 30 minutes but what I saw I liked. He looks like a footballer and he always tried to find a Rovers shirt with the ball instead of just crashing it down field. The sending off was unfortunate. He'd no intention of hurting the player who got up and played on after the incident. It's the sort of thing you see all the time today unfortunately, the opposition made a meal of it , players all running in etc, and the referee went along with it. Home game red card. I'd be interested to hear Arbitro's views if he went to the game.

Matty Platt came on in his place and looked quite assured without being as good as Wharton on the ball. Two quite promising players there.

I was surprised we didn't make another substitution after 30 minutes, we were chasing the ball for long periods in the second half. Bringing Raya on towards the end would have made sense to me regarding the up coming shoot out. Fisher did nothing wrong at all in the game but he lacked presence in the shoot out. He didn't get near any of the Rochdale pens.

All in all a pretty disappointing evening. Strange team selection in my opinion and a pretty un-inspiring performance also. If Mowbray was responsible for that I'm losing any faith I had in him. If things haven't changed very, very soon he needs to go. The football he's producing is boring, dull, predictable and ultimately unsuccessful.

Surprisingly Gladwin was the one who looked to be able to pick a pass and do something different. He has his faults regarding pace, strength etc but he looked comfortable on the ball last night despite being shoved out of position on the left wing. I see him more as a replacement for Dack if he gets injured/suspended.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Another thing I will say is that Harper will be playing regularly in the Premier League in a few years time, he might not be ready yet but I'd give him a go in the league as there isn't really anyone keeping him out, is there?

If you're right that tells me more about modern football than it does about Harper. To me he's a big tall lad who has dominated the lads in his age bracket by virtue of his physique. When he's up against blokes his own size he looks ordinary. I can't believe he's a better bet than Tomlinson for the Rovers first team.

[benhben]

Not too fussed about the checkatrade trophy however another loss and average performance by the sounds of it. We should be using these games to blood in more of the U23s otherwise they will never be ready according to Melton Mowbray.

What also worries me is, how do we expect to create a winning mentality at the club to push for promotion when we cant even win games against League 2 opponents? At some point the club needs to get used to winning, and whilst not a trophy anyone cares about wins in any game breed confidence and momentum. We simply don't win enough games under Mowbray and the club is accustomed to draws and losses. Losing faith well ever turn it around as we stand now. 

Cautious line ups no matter who the opposition.

[RV Blue]

17 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If you're right that tells me more about modern football than it does about Harper. To me he's a big tall lad who has dominated the lads in his age bracket by virtue of his physique. When he's up against blokes his own size he looks ordinary. I can't believe he's a better bet than Tomlinson for the Rovers first team.

There is just something about him that tells me he is going to be a good'un. Quick, big long strides, can get up and down, and carries the ball well. Remember he is only 17, whereas Tomlinson is 20 (I think). It was a strange signing and under normal circumstances he wouldn't get a look in, but I think he'd be a better bet than Whittingham & Evans in certain games.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I could see him standing in for Evans alright but not Whittingham. I appreciate he's only young but he didn't have the " X " factor I'm looking for in potential stars. I know Nzonzi was older but the first time I saw him play I could see he had something. That was against Man City first team not a Rochdale  select 11. Harper should be aiming to be a similar player. He gets around the pitch ok and puts a foot in but on the ball he offers nothing going forward. How he got played out wide against Scunthorpe I'll never know, a winger he isn't. Makes you wonder about Mowbray.

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Stick to mother jokes, you know feck all about Rovers.

The under 23s and academy were in it, not the first team.  Will we start acknowledging the under 12s as the first team too? 

[JHRover]

15 minutes ago, benhben said:

Not too fussed about the checkatrade trophy however another loss and average performance by the sounds of it. We should be using these games to blood in more of the U23s otherwise they will never be ready according to Melton Mowbray.

What also worries me is, how do we expect to create a winning mentality at the club to push for promotion when we cant even win games against League 2 opponents? At some point the club needs to get used to winning, and whilst not a trophy anyone cares about wins in any game breed confidence and momentum. We simply don't win enough games under Mowbray and the club is accustomed to draws and losses. Losing faith well ever turn it around as we stand now. 

Cautious line ups no matter who the opposition.

Too much acceptance when we draw/lose. Every single game we fail to win at this level the manager and players should be unhappy with and knuckle down the following week to bounce back with a win to silence the doubters. Already we've had the attitude creeping in that away draws are good results, when actually they aren't if you are aiming for the top 2. Southend was written off in some quarters before a ball kicked because it was a potential banana skin. Wigan away was accepted as a draw because we had 10 men and they were above us in the league yet really we needed to be winning there to send a message and more importantly close that gap. Shrewsbury was accepted as a good point because they're doing well and we didn't play well yet there goes another 2 points and a golden chance to claw back the deficit.

Draws vs Plymouth and Fleetwood at home very damaging indeed. 4 points dropped there from 2 home games where we really should have been winning both having twice gone ahead vs Fleetwood and Plymouth being bottom of the league.

Not ruthless enough, not ambitious enough.

We should be going to struggling managerless Bury a week on Saturday with a bumper away following looking to send out a message, win doubters over after the Shrewsbury and Oldham debacles and get at them from the word go. We are a better team and should be beating them. Yet what I expect to see is more of the same slow negative approach with infrequent attacks and lack of goal threat and chances created.

[philipl]

The big take away from the Checkatrade is that for a thinker, Mowbray's thinking processes resemble a bowl of spaghetti after the dog's been at it.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, bob fleming said:

In all fairness that's probably depending on who the jar of Nutella's agent is.

That's the danger at Ewood because of the void of any brains upstairs, don't give him a reason to stay and he'll be through the net pretty quick. On the other hand the right 'advisor' and he gets 3 years a massive pay rise maybe followed by a massive downturn in form and attitude.

Carrot and stick, players should have rolling contracts like some managers do.

[islander200]

Suprised he didn't give Travis a start last night.Is Doyle injured?

[Al]

13 hours ago, neophox said:

We now have four strikers firing on all cylinders Graham, Nuttall, Antonsson and Samuel!

I make that two. Nuttall and Samuel. The other two are over the hill/lightweight.

[tomphil]

24 minutes ago, philipl said:

The big take away from the Checkatrade is that for a thinker, Mowbray's thinking processes resemble a bowl of spaghetti after the dog's been at it.

Overcooked spaghetti.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, philipl said:

The big take away from the Checkatrade is that for a thinker, Mowbray's thinking processes resemble a bowl of spaghetti after the dog's been at it.

The feeling I came away from last night was summed up in one word - " uninspiring ". 

I know that was a hodge podge of a team last night but we looked really poor ability wise.

I've seen us through plenty of the ups and downs over the last nearly 60 years and last night for the first time ever I thought - " I can't be watching this any more " .

Not because of the Chicken Chokers but because the standard of football was absolute dogshit. 

[arbitro]

I thought that we started the game at a decent pace and moved the ball quickly and I thought we would really go for it but we soon settled into the more mundane fayre to which we are becoming accustomed. For the life in me I can't see how Harper and Hart have enhanced our squad given what Mowbray already had at his disposal. Gladwin showed a bit more energy but his decision making is poor. In all honesty the only ray of light was was Nuttall who looked like he could forge a partnership with Samuel until the sending off and then battled on his own. Wharton was decent until his dismissal and Platt looked adequate. 

In all honesty the feeling of defeat wasn't as overbearing as it is after a league match. If we go on to get promoted we might look back and say getting knocked out was a good thing. If we don't it will be another stick to beat Mowbray with. 

[RV Blue]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I could see him standing in for Evans alright but not Whittingham. I appreciate he's only young but he didn't have the " X " factor I'm looking for in potential stars. I know Nzonzi was older but the first time I saw him play I could see he had something. That was against Man City first team not a Rochdale  select 11. Harper should be aiming to be a similar player. He gets around the pitch ok and puts a foot in but on the ball he offers nothing going forward. How he got played out wide against Scunthorpe I'll never know, a winger he isn't. Makes you wonder about Mowbray.

He's a different player to N'zonzi, nowhere near as good on the ball but quicker and better physically. I don't rate Whittingham, he's an excellent passer & striker of the ball, but that is it. He can't create space for himself and has no awareness of where his teammates are, he needs a few seconds to think about what he's going to do with the ball when he gets it and needs loads of space to be able to do what he wants with it. He also looks like someone who doesn't want the ball and won't offer an outlet when a teammate is in trouble.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, RV Blue said:

He's a different player to N'zonzi, nowhere near as good on the ball but quicker and better physically. I don't rate Whittingham, he's an excellent passer & striker of the ball, but that is it. He can't create space for himself and has no awareness of where his teammates are, he needs a few seconds to think about what he's going to do with the ball when he gets it and needs loads of space to be able to do what he wants with it. He also looks like someone who doesn't want the ball and won't offer an outlet when a teammate is in trouble.

He has had a decent career for someone so limited then,no?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, RV Blue said:

He's a different player to N'zonzi, nowhere near as good on the ball but quicker and better physically. I don't rate Whittingham, he's an excellent passer & striker of the ball, but that is it. He can't create space for himself and has no awareness of where his teammates are, he needs a few seconds to think about what he's going to do with the ball when he gets it and needs loads of space to be able to do what he wants with it. He also looks like someone who doesn't want the ball and won't offer an outlet when a teammate is in trouble.

Yeah he's quicker than Nzonzi alright but there's not a lot of end product at the sharp end of the pitch. Asking you an honest question - would you play Harper and Smallwood again in centre midfield ? If the answer is no who would you leave out ?  If the answer is yes where are the goal scoring chances going to come from ? 

I agree with you about Whittingham. He doesn't fit into this team formation. Nice passer of the ball but he's playing too deep in this formation to hurt teams. I thought Camps on the Rochdale team looked a good player, very tidy on the ball and very rarely caught in possession but again playing too deep to hurt us.

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I could see him standing in for Evans alright but not Whittingham. I appreciate he's only young but he didn't have the " X " factor I'm looking for in potential stars. I know Nzonzi was older but the first time I saw him play I could see he had something. That was against Man City first team not a Rochdale  select 11. Harper should be aiming to be a similar player. He gets around the pitch ok and puts a foot in but on the ball he offers nothing going forward. How he got played out wide against Scunthorpe I'll never know, a winger he isn't. Makes you wonder about Mowbray.

I agree with you.

Only seen the lad once but was left scratching my head as to why the hell we've signed him.

Even if a player has a quiet game, I always think they will do at least one thing in a game that makes you sit up, take notice and think there might just be something there!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I thought that we started the game at a decent pace and moved the ball quickly and I thought we would really go for it but we soon settled into the more mundane fayre to which we are becoming accustomed. For the life in me I can't see how Harper and Hart have enhanced our squad given what Mowbray already had at his disposal. Gladwin showed a bit more energy but his decision making is poor. In all honesty the only ray of light was was Nuttall who looked like he could forge a partnership with Samuel until the sending off and then battled on his own. Wharton was decent until his dismissal and Platt looked adequate. 

In all honesty the feeling of defeat wasn't as overbearing as it is after a league match. If we go on to get promoted we might look back and say getting knocked out was a good thing. If we don't it will be another stick to beat Mowbray with. 

Any views on the red card ?

[mhead]

Wharton's sending off was an 'orange' at most. The intention was not to kick the opponent....ref should re-read the rules.

[RevidgeBlue]

7 hours ago, Tugay's Right Foot said:

I confess some of the rules have flown right by me but if I recall, might be for this cup, there rules regarding the make up for the team that gets put out. 

coming back to the match, not a good result but with the number of kids including Fisher in goal, it probably was a fair result (1-1 at full time) for 10 men. Not to forget, another "first teamer" Samuel was taken off for Matty Platt.

 

it's the league that's more worrying.

 

edit: https://www.efl.com/clubs-and-competitions/checkatrade-trophy/about-checkatrade/rules--regulations/

Thanks. I had a look at the rules and I must confess I couldnt make head nor tail of most of them, but, the rule on the make up of the team as far as I can see  was simply you must field AT LEAST 6 under 21's so I don't see how that would preclude Tomlinson from selection.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Any views on the red card ?

Spoke to someone who went to the game last night Tyrone and he thought Wharton could have no complaints at all about being sent off, said his boot was neck high!

I may be wrong but I don't think intent is required these days for a card to be produced being reckless will suffice.

Nevertheless I hope Mowbray doesn't use the incident as an excuse not to play Wharton forever and a day and that it isn't a further 12 months before we see him turning out for the first team again.

[MarkBRFC]

12 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Thanks. I had a look at the rules and I must confess I couldnt make head nor tail of most of them, but, the rule on the make up of the team as far as I can see  was simply you must field AT LEAST 6 under 21's so I don't see how that would preclude Tomlinson from selection.

That only applies to the academy teams that are in the competition, the rules for league 1 and 2 clubs is that you must field at least 4 of the players that played in your last league match.