World Cup 2018

[Norbert Rassragr]

I'd not like to be the one scores the goal to knock Russia out. I think I'd practically go on hunger strike in case I get Polonium tea.

[JacknOry]

I have never been as disinterested in a World Cup, dour manager, crap players and its in fckin Russia.

[Oldgregg86]

If you love football and you love your national team then how can your excitement and interest levels be determined by where the cup is held, especially (as I am assuming) if your not going and watching it on tvs and in bars in england

[Rover_Shaun]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

I have never been as disinterested in a World Cup, dour manager, crap players and its in fckin Russia.

I've not watched a world cup religiously since 1998. Dipped in and out ever since. Watched 1 game in 2010 because of those fcking horns ?

[chaddyrovers]

http://dailym.ai/2G3CcoJ#i-2f9bb3ad868aa964

[joey_big_nose]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

http://dailym.ai/2G3CcoJ#i-2f9bb3ad868aa964

Had a read of the expected team in the article. Good goal threat, a lot of athleticism, decent pace and quality out wide. But defensively very weak at centre back and goalkeeper, and no one who is a proper passer of the ball in midfield.

Probably player for player one of the worst sides of the last 30 years.

[Mattyblue]

Was watching the highlights of England Holland Euro 96 on the Beeb website this morning. Now THAT was a team of leaders, with real quality too.

Seaman, Pearce, Adams, Southgate, Neville, Ince, Gascoigne, McMananaman, Platt, Sheringham, Shearer.

We've had a real decline this past twenty years.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Was watching the highlights of England Holland Euro 96 on the Beeb website this morning. Now THAT was a team of leaders, with real quality too.

Seaman, Pearce, Adams, Southgate, Neville, Ince, Gascoigne, McMananaman, Platt, Sheringham, Shearer.

We've had a real decline this past twenty years.

I think it's more the lifestyle now Mattyblue. The vast amounts of money involves turns the most average of international players (who still, by merit, are very good players) into thinking they are something special.

When you look at the England team you see a bunch of lads all very good on social media, or on their Soccer AM appearances going through old tweets, but you don't see somebody who is going to roll his sleeves up, slap his badge and get stuck in when we need him too. The players in question will get their 100k+ a week, appearance bonus, sponsorship money, tv appearance money, international cap bonus whether they win or lose. They don't mingle with the general public like they used too because they are the elite now so why bother what the general public think.

That's my belief anyway. Although you could argue that it's the same around the world and other countries perform regularly. Italian, Spanish, German, French players etc all seem to take great pride in putting on the shirt - you get the impression with England players it's just "part of the job".

[joey_big_nose]

I'd agree with what you say at the end. All the top players are vastly well paid. England are hardly different in that regard.

To be honest it's not the case that the English players aren't up for it, or lack pride. It's just that they are not as good.

The Spain team that dominated 2008-2012 were stuffed full of Catalans who had little affinity for Spain. But that hardly mattered as what led to their success was supreme talent and a great team system and ethic.

It's not about trying hard. It's about being good players. England have never been in the top tier of talent globally as long as I have watched the game.

You could point to substandard teams have won tournaments (Portugal and Greece spring to mind) but they won through luck and good tactics. Not because somehow they wanted it more.

[Norbert Rassragr]

12 hours ago, Rover_Shaun said:

I've not watched a world cup religiously since 1998. Dipped in and out ever since. Watched 1 game in 2010 because of those fcking horns ?

2010 was awful. The games were crap, and like you say those effing horns. They gave me a headache. The last tournament had some fantastic games, and yes I did love seeing Germany hammer Brazil.

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

It's not about trying hard. It's about being good players. England have never been in the top tier of talent globally as long as I have watched the game.

You could point to substandard teams have won tournaments (Portugal and Greece spring to mind) but they won through luck and good tactics. Not because somehow they wanted it more.

That is unfortunately true. England doesn't produce enough world class players. I'm sure the powers that be have debated long and hard as to why. Is it facilities? Mentality? Weather? Set up?

My hope is that it's all changing though. Take out Cahill and Hart and this England crop is the youngest in a long time. Couple this with the youth teams' successes last year should build a platform to improve.

 

[joey_big_nose]

Watched the game tonight. 

Have to hand it to Southgate. It was an innovative set up which paid off. The back three were excellent on the ball and totally controlled the game. The passing quality they had negated the need for a deep midfield play maker. Also playing Walker on the right of the three created an interesting dynamic with Trippier too.

Only downside was lacking goal threat up front. 

 

 

 

 

[speeeeeeedie]

Decent run out for England. Still a long way to go, but I'm a hopeless fool when it comes to England.

Germany drew 1-1 with Spain. Germany will be there or thereabouts as usual.

Their team tonight was; Ter Stegen, Kimmich, Hummels, Boateng, Hector, Khedira, Kroos, Ozil, Muller, Draxler, Werner.

Premier Leaguers Rudiger, Sane, and Gundogan were subs. As was Mario Gomez who I thought retired years ago. 

 

 

[philipl]

Germany is phenomenally strong to only have Sane as sub. That lad has ripped a huge hole in the Premier League this season.

[blueboy3333]

That's possibly the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Mouldy Orange.

[matt83]

On 23/03/2018 at 12:39, speeeeeeedie said:

That is unfortunately true. England doesn't produce enough world class players. I'm sure the powers that be have debated long and hard as to why. Is it facilities? Mentality? Weather? Set up?

My hope is that it's all changing though. Take out Cahill and Hart and this England crop is the youngest in a long time. Couple this with the youth teams' successes last year should build a platform to improve.

 

Probably a combination of those things. Also I think it has a lot to do with the amount of English players playing top division football. Some will say the cream will always rise to the top but I don’t think they do. Far easier to chuck in a cheap import who’s ready to go than allow an English player to develop. 

The youth exploits are exiting but how many are playing week in week out. I don’t know but I’d wager not many. That’s our biggest problem as I see it

[jim mk2]

 Go back 20 plus years and the Premier League was dominated by English (British) players - so we had the numbers then yet England still weren't good enough to win a tournament (or even reach a final). Under Taylor and Keegan we were a laughing stock.

The basic problem is we have never had enough true world-class players compared to successful nations like Spain, Germany, France, Brazil etc),  and we've never had a coach who has been able to get the most out of the players we have (although Eriksson did well). Germany have had some distinctly ordinary sides in the past but because they are organised and well coached they rarely if ever fail in the big tournaments. 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by jim mk2

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, matt83 said:

Probably a combination of those things. Also I think it has a lot to do with the amount of English players playing top division football. Some will say the cream will always rise to the top but I don’t think they do. Far easier to chuck in a cheap import who’s ready to go than allow an English player to develop. 

The youth exploits are exiting but how many are playing week in week out. I don’t know but I’d wager not many. That’s our biggest problem as I see it

True true. Coupled with the cheap import being easier is the continued practice by big clubs of signing any promising English youngster long before they are fully developed. Luke Shaw is the latest. Ashley Cole's heir 4 years ago. Now he can't get a game as his club mate, a converted right winger, is ahead of him. It's tragic and hurts the national team. 

Jadon Sancho upping sticks and leaving City for Dortmund last year was a good move. More should follow his lead and play their trade abroad.

[roversfan99]

Decent performance from what I saw that owed as much to Hollands incompetence I think.

Dont think Southgate knows his best team which is a major worry, I do feel that when we get to Russia, his managerial incompetence coupled with an obvious lack of playing experience, and the lack of depth that may well be exposed with any injuries, they are 3 major reasons why we are limited in how far we can go, with what is actually a first team containing players that are perhaps slightly better than most give them credit for.

Henderson played well last night, I do feel in general hes a very flawed player but hes a step up from the massively overrated Eric Dier. That centre of midfield looks the weakest out of all positions really, and for me our best bet is a massively injury prone Wilshire and a limited Henderson, which tells you everything. Got big problems both there and at centre back.

I don't think we look anywhere near fluent enough going forward considering thats where our obvious strengths are, changing from 2 playing either side of a number 9, to a number 10 playing behind 2, I'd hope that maybe Kane and Sterling with Alli in support, and Rashford and Vardy on the bench.

Think our best team overall is, assuming hes stuck with 3 at the back, Pickford / Jones Stones Maguire / Walker Henderson Wilshire Rose (or Young) / Alli / Sterling Kane

Under a competent manager, and with no injuries, thats still not an elite team like Spain, Germany or Brazil, but potentially part of the bracket underneath.

[roverandout]

On 23/03/2018 at 08:19, Mattyblue said:

Was watching the highlights of England Holland Euro 96 on the Beeb website this morning. Now THAT was a team of leaders, with real quality too.

Seaman, Pearce, Adams, Southgate, Neville, Ince, Gascoigne, McMananaman, Platt, Sheringham, Shearer.

We've had a real decline this past twenty years.

Best team we had was between 04 and 06...far better than the overrated euro 96 team

[Rover_Shaun]

4 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Best team we had was between 04 and 06...far better than the overrated euro 96 team

?? Yeah right

[Mattyblue]

England team that were knocked out by Portugal in World Cup ‘06:

Robinson, Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Hargreaves, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Joe Cole, Rooney

Game of opinions and all that, but that side above didn’t compare to 1996, certainly not when it came to leaders.

 

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Decent performance from what I saw that owed as much to Hollands incompetence I think.

Dont think Southgate knows his best team which is a major worry, I do feel that when we get to Russia, his managerial incompetence coupled with an obvious lack of playing experience, and the lack of depth that may well be exposed with any injuries, they are 3 major reasons why we are limited in how far we can go, with what is actually a first team containing players that are perhaps slightly better than most give them credit for.

Henderson played well last night, I do feel in general hes a very flawed player but hes a step up from the massively overrated Eric Dier. That centre of midfield looks the weakest out of all positions really, and for me our best bet is a massively injury prone Wilshire and a limited Henderson, which tells you everything. Got big problems both there and at centre back.

I don't think we look anywhere near fluent enough going forward considering thats where our obvious strengths are, changing from 2 playing either side of a number 9, to a number 10 playing behind 2, I'd hope that maybe Kane and Sterling with Alli in support, and Rashford and Vardy on the bench.

Think our best team overall is, assuming hes stuck with 3 at the back, Pickford / Jones Stones Maguire / Walker Henderson Wilshire Rose (or Young) / Alli / Sterling Kane

Under a competent manager, and with no injuries, thats still not an elite team like Spain, Germany or Brazil, but potentially part of the bracket underneath.

Decent? You are having a laugh. It was really good competence performance. 

I don't know how you can have a go at Southgate after that performance when all players that started understood their role, played well and proved that they can play in 3-4-1-2 formation despite your argument they cant. didn't look fluent enough going forward?  is this joke or something? 

I disagree on the lack of depth in the England squad. Also disagree on Dier who would the 2nd name on my teamsheet after Harry Kane who would be my captain and vice captain(Dier). 

What problems at Centre back? Look at the depth we have. I will name these players, starting who my back 3 would be:- Dier, Stones, Maguire, Jones, Gomez, Smalling, Cahill, Mawson, Tarwolski. Plus Walker look good enough as centre back in a 3 man team. 

Midfield:- Henderson played well yesterday and probably played himself into the starting 11. Wilshere is a must if fit. Oxlade Chamberlain is playing well in centre midfield for Liverpool. I would take Lewis Cook who is form for Bournemouth. Ali is playing poor for Spurs atm and last night was awful. probably played himself out of the starting line up. Plus Sterling, Lingard and Lallana. 

Strikers:- Kane, Rashford and Vardy are automatic choices for 3 of the 4 spots. the other spot is wide open and whether you want to take a extra defender and use Dier as midfielder, or take extra centre midfielder(Livermore) and use Sterling as a striker which is very tempting at the minute, Or take Welbeck or Sturridge. 

[jim mk2]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Decent? You are having a laugh. It was really good competence performance. 

I don't know how you can have a go at Southgate after that performance when all players that started understood their role, played well and proved that they can play in 3-4-1-2 formation despite your argument they cant. didn't look fluent enough going forward?  is this joke or something? 

I disagree on the lack of depth in the England squad. Also disagree on Dier who would the 2nd name on my teamsheet after Harry Kane who would be my captain and vice captain(Dier). 

What problems at Centre back? Look at the depth we have. I will name these players, starting who my back 3 would be:- Dier, Stones, Maguire, Jones, Gomez, Smalling, Cahill, Mawson, Tarwolski. Plus Walker look good enough as centre back in a 3 man team. 

Midfield:- Henderson played well yesterday and probably played himself into the starting 11. Wilshere is a must if fit. Oxlade Chamberlain is playing well in centre midfield for Liverpool. I would take Lewis Cook who is form for Bournemouth. Ali is playing poor for Spurs atm and last night was awful. probably played himself out of the starting line up. Plus Sterling, Lingard and Lallana. 

Strikers:- Kane, Rashford and Vardy are automatic choices for 3 of the 4 spots. the other spot is wide open and whether you want to take a extra defender and use Dier as midfielder, or take extra centre midfielder(Livermore) and use Sterling as a striker which is very tempting at the minute, Or take Welbeck or Sturridge. 

 

 

All of them are good players - none are out of the top drawer or "world class".

An therein lies the explanation of why England will always fail

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

 

All of them are good players - none are out of the top drawer or "world class".

An therein lies the explanation of why England will always fail

I would say Kane is world class. 

Greece won the Euros and the they had no world class players