World Cup 2018

[philipl]

Just been reminded that Belgium won 4-0 in the Stade de France three years ago- and France got off lightly that night too.

[JacknOry]

8 hours ago, roverandout said:

Honestly think we will beat croatia but i hope southgate doesnt accomodate modric by using henderson to man mark him.  Henderson has shown a different side to his game this world cup..creativity..some of his passing had been pirlo-esque.  Let them worry about us. We have something they lack. Pace. They will be terrified of our quick, mobile attacking players. This is the sort of game sterling could thrive in. A lot of their players are in their 30s now and having 2 extra time games will have taken a lot out of them.

Agree with this...if we change our setup to accommodate them it puts them in the driving seat in my opinion. They should be worried about us. Dier alongside Henderson makes us look labored.

[Mike E]

8 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

We saw the best and worst of Sterling against Sweden. He'd run at players, show great movement, but then mess about on the ball and not see a pass, or shoot with the aggression of Nicholas Parsons offering you a cup of tea.

I wouldn't underestimate how angry he gets if you refuse...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I can't see Southgate changing anything. If we had the personnel in the squad to make significant changes he might do but we haven't. We haven't a player to man mark Modric. It's a specialised role and not many players have that ability. They way the refs are these days and the way clever players draw and exaggerate fouls no marker would last the whole game.

The days of Nobby Stiles giving Eusebio a good kicking and staying on the pitch are long gone.

The way Modric gets about the pitch whoever marked him would be very tired by the end of the game. He must be an Olympic class athlete as well.

[Tom]

Which ex Rovers feels more of an idiot right now, Big Sam for his greed / ego combination or Niko Kalinic for his refusal to come off the bench whilst his teammates go on to the semi final! 

[Sparks Rover]

10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I can't see Southgate changing anything. If we had the personnel in the squad to make significant changes he might do but we haven't. We haven't a player to man mark Modric. It's a specialised role and not many players have that ability. They way the refs are these days and the way clever players draw and exaggerate fouls no marker would last the whole game.

The days of Nobby Stiles giving Eusebio a good kicking and staying on the pitch are long gone.

The way Modric gets about the pitch whoever marked him would be very tired by the end of the game. He must be an Olympic class athlete as well.

I think he will drop lingard for Delph to add a bit more bite to the middle. Hemderson will get over run off modric rakitic and pereseic. 

 

[Dreams of 1995]

5 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I think he will drop lingard for Delph to add a bit more bite to the middle. Hemderson will get over run off modric rakitic and pereseic. 

 

The better player to drop must be Dele Ali. Aside from his goal Saturday he's not had the greatest performance. Probably not 100% judging by the fact he spends a lot of time holding his thigh.

The doubt in my mind about the Croatia game is that their world class players are all in the area of the pitch we are arguably at our weakest - the middle. Henderson has to have help otherwise the trio mentioned will run all over him. Someone like Delph would be ideal but has he had enough football and will it come to the detriment of our attacking team?

On the other hand though, Croatia's worst area of the pitch is their defence. You'd take playing against Dejan Lovren in the semi-final every single time. The game will definitely be a battle in midfield. I can't see the game being won if we don't get Rakitic/Modric under control early on.

[roverandout]

Agree but this also gives ali and lingard more freedom because croatia dont have a holding player..it might mean modric might have to drop much deeper to compensate the lack of a quality holding player in croatia's midfield..i dont think you will see the marauding free-flowing modric of previous games

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

I think he will drop lingard for Delph to add a bit more bite to the middle. Hemderson will get over run off modric rakitic and pereseic. 

 

I hope not..why should we compensate for their team..they will be more worried about our pace and mobilty

[Dreams of 1995]

17 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Agree but this also gives ali and lingard more freedom because croatia dont have a holding player..it might mean modric might have to drop much deeper to compensate the lack of a quality holding player in croatia's midfield..i dont think you will see the marauding free-flowing modric of previous games

Delph can be creative also. The boy can pick passes out. He's certainly got more in his locker than our other holding midfielder Dier. That said you don't change a winning formula so barring any niggles or fatigue I'd expect much of the same.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

17 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Agree but this also gives ali and lingard more freedom because croatia dont have a holding player..it might mean modric might have to drop much deeper to compensate the lack of a quality holding player in croatia's midfield..i dont think you will see the marauding free-flowing modric of previous games

They've been trying to get Modric further forward because he can really hurt teams. They've brought in Brozovic as a defensive midfielder so they can do this but it means they have to play with one striker instead of two. 

If Southgate can come up with a plan to negate their midfield I'll really be impressed.

[roverandout]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They've been trying to get Modric further forward because he can really hurt teams. They've brought in Brozovic as a defensive midfielder so they can do this but it means they have to play with one striker instead of two. 

If Southgate can come up with a plan to negate their midfield I'll really be impressed.

Well against russia they played both mandzucic and kramaric..

[joey_big_nose]

Tactically Croatia are very very tricky for us. The only play one up, pack the midfield, have great talent in there. Theyre perfectly set up to disrupt our 532/352.

They absolutely battered Argentina's three at the back. Conversely they struggled against Russia and Denmark's flat back fours ....

If we had more time changing to 442 or 4231 would make sense. The current 532 gives them an extra two men in midfield which could be lethal... and I don't think we really get any advantage from our system to be honest. The oppo playing 451 is our kryptonite I think.

Very tricky situation for Southgate with so little time to change things. My guess is he will stick with our current system, but get Sterling to drop off and pick up Modric when we don't have the ball, and brief Alli and Lingard to drop in tight alongside Henderson when we are defending.

When we have the ball we should have the luxury to play out through Maguire and Walker who will have a huge amount of space with only Manzukic up front for Croatia.

Should be a very open game, as I think both sides will see offence as the best form of defence. Got a feeling we might well be under the kosh for long periods.

Edit - the more I think about it the more I think Southgate might do a Martinez and suprise everyone and change the system. He must know Croatia are perfectly set up to hurt us,  so he may have a plan B. Maybe go 4231? Not sure we really have the personnel for it though...

-----------------------Pickford

Trippier-----Stones----Maguire----Young

------------------Delph---Henderson

------Sterling---------Alli-------------Lingard

------------------------Kane

Edited July 9, 2018 by joey_big_nose

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

45 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Well against russia they played both mandzucic and kramaric..

True, but that was then, subsequently they've changed their system.

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Tactically Croatia are very very tricky for us. The only play one up, pack the midfield, have great talent in there. Theyre perfectly set up to disrupt our 532/352.

They absolutely battered Argentina's three at the back. Conversely they struggled against Russia and Denmark's flat back fours ....

If we had more time changing to 442 or 4231 would make sense. The current 532 gives them an extra two men in midfield which could be lethal... and I don't think we really get any advantage from our system to be honest. The oppo playing 451 is our kryptonite I think.

Very tricky situation for Southgate with so little time to change things. My guess is he will stick with our current system, but get Sterling to drop off and pick up Modric when we don't have the ball, and brief Alli and Lingard to drop in tight alongside Henderson when we are defending.

When we have the ball we should have the luxury to play out through Maguire and Walker who will have a huge amount of space with only Manzukic up front for Croatia.

Should be a very open game, as I think both sides will see offence as the best form of defence. Got a feeling we might well be under the kosh for long periods.

Edit - the more I think about it the more I think Southgate might do a Martinez and suprise everyone and change the system. He must know Croatia are perfectly set up to hurt us,  so he may have a plan B. Maybe go 4231? Not sure we really have the personnel for it though...

-----------------------Pickford

Trippier-----Stones----Maguire----Young

------------------Delph---Henderson

------Sterling---------Alli-------------Lingard

------------------------Kane

I still say Southgate will keep the same 11. He has a system and will continue to use it. All 4 of the front men can drop in and help out. Kane did it against Colombia, Alli did a lot of it against Sweden.

Croatia battered Argentina because they were crap, then struggled against Denmark and Russia as they were very defensively organised.

 

[joey_big_nose]

4 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Croatia battered Argentina because they were crap, then struggled against Denmark and Russia as they were very defensively organised.

 

I respectfully disagree. That Argentina were crap was indeed a significant factor, but also a significant factor was the back three allowing Persic and Rebic to absolutely annihilate their centrebacks in the channels, while loads of room was also afforded to Modric and Rakitic in front of the defence.

I do agree Southgate is likely to stick with the same team. I just think the Croats will have a big advantage with the way they line up.

Edited July 9, 2018 by joey_big_nose

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

I respectfully disagree. That Argentina were crap was indeed a significant factor, but also a significant factor was 3 back three setup allowing Persic and Rebic could absolutely annihilate their centrebacks in the channels, while loads of room was afforded to Modric and Rakitic in front of the defence.

I do agree Southgate is likely to stick with the same team. I just think the Croats will have a big advantage with the way they line up.

I dont think modric will be able to be as offensive..as i said earlier if croatia commit too many players forward, the speed of our attack will leave them open..i think the croats are more likely to make changes..a lot of their side are past 30 and 2 games of extra time will have diminished their fitness even further.  I also think we are a better side than them. Im not worried about this croatia side..their final third is toothless

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

I respectfully disagree. That Argentina were crap was indeed a significant factor, but also a significant factor was 3 back three setup allowing Persic and Rebic could absolutely annihilate their centrebacks in the channels, while loads of room was afforded to Modric and Rakitic in front of the defence.

I do agree Southgate is likely to stick with the same team. I just think the Croats will have a big advantage with the way they line up.

Until the game we won't know.

I am with you in that If Modric and Ratikic get space they'll cause havoc. However, our back 5 are better than the shower that Argentina put out.

I wouldn't change a winning team though.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

I dont think modric will be able to be as offensive..as i said earlier if croatia commit too many players forward, the speed of our attack will leave them open..i think the croats are more likely to make changes..a lot of their side are past 30 and 2 games of extra time will have diminished their fitness even further.  I also think we are a better side than them. Im not worried about this croatia side..their final third is toothless

Think theres a difference between confidence and being arrogantly disrespectful of another very good team, and I think you are in danger of being the latter.

Croatia are a very good team, both teams have done very well to get where they are and it should be a tight game.

My biggest worries on paper are in midfield, where no matter what 3 we pick (id continue with Alli and Lingard but neither are out and out central midfielders) we are inferior there, Modric and Rakitic ahead of Brozovic (which youd imagine they will play as it gives them more balance) is possibly the best midfield in the tournament. Im a big fan of Henderson but hes got one hell of a job on.

To say they are toothless is blatantly wrong, they might not have a Harry Kane but they pose a big threat. You'd hope our aerial strength can nullify Mandzukic but Rebic and in particular Perisic are very intelligent players drifting in on our side and could be an even bigger danger against a back three. Perisic in the air over Walker is a big worry.

That said, we are the masters of this tournament from set pieces and we have energy and obviously the top scorer, we need to be a bit braver in attack and we have a good chance.

41 minutes ago, Gladwingone said:

Sterling is complete bobbins.

He hasn't done a thing except waste chances.

I have got more striker's instinct in my left ass cheek

 

As far as the remaining number 10's go. Put into the order of quality :-

Hazard

Mbappe

Modric

Sterling

 

Did your left ass cheek get 18 goals and 15 assists in 33 league games last season?

The masses are conveniently ignoring that Sterling was our most dangerous player on Saturday, yes he should have put one away but his pace and dribbling frightened Sweden, he does need a goal to get his confidence up and shut people up.

[J*B]

49 minutes ago, Gladwingone said:

Sterling is complete bobbins.

He hasn't done a thing except waste chances.

I have got more striker's instinct in my left ass cheek

 

As far as the remaining number 10's go. Put into the order of quality :-

Hazard

Mbappe

Modric

Sterling

 

A left forward, centre forward , central midfielder and a right forward. Tremendous.

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

I dont think modric will be able to be as offensive..as i said earlier if croatia commit too many players forward, the speed of our attack will leave them open..i think the croats are more likely to make changes..a lot of their side are past 30 and 2 games of extra time will have diminished their fitness even further.  I also think we are a better side than them. Im not worried about this croatia side..their final third is toothless

Player for player there is not much between us, but if anyone shades it  it's Croatia.

Theres about a 50/50 chance they'll knock us out. That's a fair assessment in my book. It's a very even game.

[Hasta]

I've not seen an England side control the midfield, keep posession and generally control the tempo of the games in major tournaments ever. That's due  more to the formation and tactics than it is to the players. Therefore I think changing to a back 4 would be madness. 

Make slight tactically tweaks by all means but play the formation which has served us well and let them worry about us. Otherwise if it backfires we will always wonder what if?

[philipl]

My tupence worth on the semi-finals.

Any draw involving France, Belgium, England and Croatia which kept France and Belgium apart would have made France and Belgium overwhelming favourites to reach the final.

As it is they meet each other teehee. So to tomorrow and Wednesday's reality.

Belgium 60/40 to beat France because they shade the player quality in most positions on the field. Mbappe and Griezman are match winners for France if the reds lose either of them for a second anywhere near goal but Belgium been showing resilience and discipline. On paper this should be a classic and probably would be if either side score inside the first 20 minutes. However, if you are France, the only way you are going to tilt the Belgian advantage away from them is by playing like the first two Group stage games and squeezing the life out of your opponents. Do that and the French have enough fire power to be sure they can convert the odd chance that will inevitably come their way. For Didier Deschamps, this is the only low risk option he has got of making it to the final so my tip is Belgium 1 France 0 and the Belgians having enough cool discipline to outgrind the French.

On Wednesday. I have England 60/40 to win despite Croatia clearly having the best player on the park in Modric. Plumping for England because as near as damn it this is an English Premier League game as much of he Croatian side has been in the EPL at one time or another. If you are Southgate, you have to play Kane as 1 up front to feed on the inevitable bits and pieces a defence with Lovran in it is going to give you. You are also going to niggle the easily niggled Croats into conceding free kicks in dangerous places again knowing Lovran's Liverpool reputation. Trying to play pass pass pass in the middle of the park will be an invitation for Croatia not only to show how ball control is really done but also to nick it and slice through onto goal.  So although nothing like the quality of France v Belgium will be on display, this will be the better match with England to win 3-2 in an epic. 

 

 

 

 

 

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Player for player there is not much between us, but if anyone shades it  it's Croatia.

Theres about a 50/50 chance they'll knock us out. That's a fair assessment in my book. It's a very even game.

Agree mostly but i think we slightly shade it as even though their midfield is far better we are stronger everywhere else

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Gladwingone said:

Sterling is complete bobbins.

He hasn't done a thing except waste chances.

I have got more striker's instinct in my left ass cheek

 

As far as the remaining number 10's go. Put into the order of quality :-

Hazard

Mbappe

Modric

Sterling

 

? ? ? ?