World Cup 2018

[DE.]

9 hours ago, Tom said:

Everybody seems to know the score, they’ve seen it all before, they just know, they’re so sure that Englands gonna throw it away.....

 

I think the most talented player on the pitch tomorrow will be James Rodriguez but our strength is as a team playing for each other without arrogance or the egos we’ve had in the past.

A lot of people seem to think win this one and we are in the final but you can’t expect any game to be easy as the likes of Switzerland or Sweden would fancy their chances as well.

Absolutely fascinating World Cup!

I'd fancy us against Sweden, but Switzerland would be more of a challenge. People calling this the "easy" route to the final forget that we aren't one of the nations who traditionally go far in tournaments. We've got a big reputation but realistically it hasn't counted for anything since Euro 96. 

[joey_big_nose]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Would you want Southgate in charge of Rovers? I Wouldn't. His only attribute is he is a bland FA yes man who will never say anything controversial or ruffle any feathers and from the FA's point of view was the ideal man to come in and pour oil on troubled waters after the big Sam scandal.

Big problem though is England have not produced a top manager since Clough. So who would you appoint? 

We've gone down the tried and tested route with Capello and Eriksson with mediocre results.  Both were supposed to have a golden generation at their disposal (I would quibble with that, but anyway..)

If you look around, top club managers do not dominate international football. Many successful international managers have little or poor club experience. Joachim Low was a relatively untested club manager who took over Germany simply because Klinsmann left and he was part of the setup. Very similar to Southgate.

What I like about Southgate is that 1) he knows his best side, 2) put a lot of thought into how we are tactically set up , building an innovative system designed to get the best out of a bluntly average squad - really no mean feat 3) is positive without over confidence in his interactions with the press.

I reckon England have a roughly 40% chance of losing tonight. Player for player we are only slightly better than Colombia.

It's the manner of how we play I am most interested in. If we are intense, give everything, intelligently change tactics to respond to the flow of the game, but get beat by quality from James or another top player, I wouldn't be against him staying on.

The mentality of sacking and starting again really hasn't got us anywhere. If theres a top candidate we can point to and say "bring him in!" that's different. But there isn't. We would only appoint someone else you are deflated by.

I suppose we could go out and offer the job to Zinedine Zidane. He's just won 3 European Cups.  Would you want him in charge? I suspect you would be on here banging on about how he isn't English and doesn't care.

[Mattyblue]

Nobody since Clough?

Bobby Robson and Terry Venables did cracking jobs.

If we'd just kept El Tel for France '98...

[Ladyboys of Bank Top]

Anyone else think that as exciting as this WC has been the actual quality of the teams is very average. I think our '98 team would comfortably beat our current one. Ditto France, Brazil etc etc 

Anyway we' ll get beat tonight. Colombia's forwards will be a bit too much for our porous defence. Thankfully my predictions are shit. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The National Team has been going backwards for years. Is there anybody who watched last night's game that thinks we could have beaten either of those teams ?  I've seen most of this World Cup and we're miles behind in terms of individual ability compared to lots of the teams that competed here. We don't produce the creative play makers that the top teams do, the Hazards, James Rodriguez, Modric, Countinho, Golozin etc. We just produce stodgy runners who can occasionally run past people but can rarely beat a man with the ball at their feet or pick out a clever pass. It's all so obvious,  predictable and easy to play against.

I like Southgate as a bloke, if I had a daughter he'd be a great son-in-law, but I'm not convinced by him. To be honest until we come up with strategies to bring through the next Gascoigne, Bobby Charlton, Johnny Haynes we'll struggle whoever we have as manager.

I live facing a huge common. In the past when I was a young guy it was thronged with kids playing football. Throughout this World Cup I haven't seen one game of coats for goals  football taking place there. Not one. When my grand kids visit they never think of going for a kick about, it's computerised games all the time.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Blow-in]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The National Team has been going backwards for years. Is there anybody who watched last night's game that thinks we could have beaten either of those teams ?  I've seen most of this World Cup and we're miles behind in terms of individual ability to lots of the teams that competed here. We don't produce the creative play makers that the top teams do, the Hazards, James Rodriguez, Modric, Countinho, Golozin etc. We just produce stodgy runners who can occasionally run past people but can rarely beat a man with the ball at their feet or pick out a clever pass. It's all so obvious,  predictable and easy to play against.

I like Southgate as a bloke, if I had a daughter he'd be a great son-in-law, but I'm not convinced by him. To be honest until we come up with strategies to bring through the next Gascoigne, Bobby Charlton, Johnny Haynes we'll struggle.

I live facing a huge common. In the past when I was a young guy it was thronged with kids playing football. Throughout this World Cup I haven't seen one game of coats for goals  football taking place there. Not one. When my grand kids visit they never think of going for a kick about, it's computerised games all the time.

In fairness England seem to be lethal from set pieces and crosses and I think that would be the undoing of a lot of the weaker teams in the last 16. You would have destroyed Japan. I also think Belgium would have an easier time against Columbia then they did with the Japanese. 

A lot of the teams are defending narrow but noone seems brave enough to play with real width except Mexico against the Germans.

[joey_big_nose]

7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Nobody since Clough?

Bobby Robson and Terry Venables did cracking jobs.

If we'd just kept El Tel for France '98...

I thought Hoddle did a good job for England too.

I was talking being a top club manager through winning club trophies. Don't really think Venables falls in that category. One FA Cup with Spurs and one La Liga with Barca. Bobby Robson is a good shout. He won the league all over Europe (Holland, Spain, Portugal). Less successful in England though - but got an FA Cup and UEFA cup with Ipswich.

Looking at this list is quite interesting. You have to go back to Bob Paisley to find a dominant English manager. Why did he never get the job?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_championship-winning_managers

[joey_big_nose]

9 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The National Team has been going backwards for years. Is there anybody who watched last night's game that thinks we could have beaten either of those teams ?  I've seen most of this World Cup and we're miles behind in terms of individual ability to lots of the teams that competed here. We don't produce the creative play makers that the top teams do, the Hazards, James Rodriguez, Modric, Countinho, Golozin etc. We just produce stodgy runners who can occasionally run past people but can rarely beat a man with the ball at their feet or pick out a clever pass. It's all so obvious,  predictable and easy to play against.

I like Southgate as a bloke, if I had a daughter he'd be a great son-in-law, but I'm not convinced by him. To be honest until we come up with strategies to bring through the next Gascoigne, Bobby Charlton, Johnny Haynes we'll struggle whoever we have as manager.

I live facing a huge common. In the past when I was a young guy it was thronged with kids playing football. Throughout this World Cup I haven't seen one game of coats for goals  football taking place there. Not one. When my grand kids visit they never think of going for a kick about, it's computerised games all the time.

Not sure where you are coming from on that. Belgium I understand, they are a few rungs above us in terms of quality, but we easily have players that Japan or Russia have. 

It's about showing the same tactical nous and intensity as they did in their games.

[Blow-in]

1 minute ago, joey_big_nose said:

I thought Hoddle did a good job for England too.

I was talking being a top club manager through winning club trophies. Don't really think Venables falls in that category. One FA Cup with Spurs and one La Liga with Barca. Bobby Robson is a good shout. He won the league all over Europe (Holland, Spain, Portugal). Less successful in England though - but got an FA Cup and UEFA cup with Ipswich.

Looking at this list is quite interesting. You have to go back to Bob Paisley to find a dominant English manager. Why did he never get the job?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_championship-winning_managers

Didnt Woy have a successful career all over europe?

[jim mk2]

40 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Nobody since Clough?

Bobby Robson and Terry Venables did cracking jobs.

If we'd just kept El Tel for France '98...

 

 

Always a puzzle for me why Venables did not stay on after Euro 96. He had a very good England team with a great team spirit. Was it something to do with his dodgy business dealings ? 

[jim mk2]

22 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I thought Hoddle did a good job for England too.

I was talking being a top club manager through winning club trophies. Don't really think Venables falls in that category. One FA Cup with Spurs and one La Liga with Barca. Bobby Robson is a good shout. He won the league all over Europe (Holland, Spain, Portugal). Less successful in England though - but got an FA Cup and UEFA cup with Ipswich.

Looking at this list is quite interesting. You have to go back to Bob Paisley to find a dominant English manager. Why did he never get the job?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_championship-winning_managers

 

Hoddle was a typical English manager. He admitted after yet another penalty shootout failure that England had not bothered to practise penalties or even think about who was going to take them. It's a classic English management strategy (in business and in football) and how we do things in this country - no planning, no forethought, just turn up and hope for the best. 

Paisley was a product of the Liverpool boot room. Could barely put 2 words together, was very awkward with the media and would never have passed the interview with the  blazers at the FA. Clough should have had the job and would have been hugely popular with the players and public - but again the FA would never consider him.

Edited July 3, 2018 by jim mk2

[roversfan99]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Have you got all night? I'd take just about anyone ahead of Southgate. His managerial record at senior level prior to taking the job was roughly comparable to Steve Kean. 

Do you think a top Club side in the Premier League would employ him?

Totally agree in terms of theres no way anyone could justify him deserving the job.

That said, I must said that I have been, provisonally at least, impressed and surprised by the work hes done in the build up. Hes given the side an identity in terms if its style of play, hes stuck to a very fluid system and thought outside the box. Henderson as a sole pivot with Alli and Lingard ahead is a bold move. Sterling central off Kane linking up with Alli and Lingard. Walker at centre back to allow us to also play Trippier whose deliveries have led to many of our goals. That said, if we crash out tonight weve underperformed so no one can say hes been a success but I have been pleasantly surprised by his approach.

3 hours ago, Paul said:

Before the game it's hugely exaggerated hype lead by, much to my disappointment, the idiot trio of Ferdinand, Shearer and Lineker. Why we can't have decent commentators on football who express real opinions instead of talking nonsense all night I don't know - the Beeb should do better. It's the time of year when it's almost wall to wall tennis in my house, the commentary and analysis adds to the experience - I'm not a great tennis fan but my wife is -  unlike football which just makes me want to throw rocks at the screen. Surely these expert pundits understand how stupid they sound?

After the game, if we lose, it will be all potential, great experience, Qatar etc. Nonsense. The team is either good enough or not. I'll stick by my view this side is no better than a mid to low table PL team and lacks creativity and excitement. This is the first England game I've planned to watch in the WC, hopefully they will do enough to keep me watching for the full 90 minutes but I have low expectations on this.

As an aside, apologies if this is seen as a diversion, anyone else see a link between the Club Revenue Generator thread and England? For me England have been a huge disappointment for decades and the FA's approach to fleecing the fans, largely making the side inaccessible to fans in the north turn me off. One consequence of this is all I've seen of this side has been very poor. I have no expectations about tonight other than another, "glorious," failure and more media bollocks. I fully accept the team may well be better than I've seen.

It's up to England to prove it on the pitch

If we win the country, lead by the BBC, will go in to hyperdrive

I quite like the BBC pundits but each to their own.

I dont get how its a "mid to lower PL side." Look at the clubs these players play for, almost all every week too: Everton, Man City, Man City, Leicester, Tottenham, Man United, Liverpool, Tottenham, Man United, Man City, Tottenham. So i think factually that youve been a little harsh. These arent bit part players either, Kane and Sterling were among the top scorers in the League.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 minutes ago, Blow-in said:

Didnt Woy have a successful career all over europe?

Not in Blackburn.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Totally agree in terms of theres no way anyone could justify him deserving the job.

That said, I must said that I have been, provisonally at least, impressed and surprised by the work hes done in the build up. Hes given the side an identity in terms if its style of play, hes stuck to a very fluid system and thought outside the box. Henderson as a sole pivot with Alli and Lingard ahead is a bold move. Sterling central off Kane linking up with Alli and Lingard. Walker at centre back to allow us to also play Trippier whose deliveries have led to many of our goals. That said, if we crash out tonight weve underperformed so no one can say hes been a success but I have been pleasantly surprised by his approach.

I quite like the BBC pundits but each to their own.

I dont get how its a "mid to lower PL side." Look at the clubs these players play for, almost all every week too: Everton, Man City, Man City, Leicester, Tottenham, Man United, Liverpool, Tottenham, Man United, Man City, Tottenham. So i think factually that youve been a little harsh. These arent bit part players either, Kane and Sterling were among the top scorers in the League.

These pundits just tell you the obvious. In days gone by when the likes of Malcolm Allison and a sober Brian Clough, Don Revie etc were on the panel you actually learned elements of the game that had passed you by.

[Blow-in]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Not in Blackburn.

You got me.

[jim mk2]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Have you got all night? I'd take just about anyone ahead of Southgate. His managerial record at senior level prior to taking the job was roughly comparable to Steve Kean. 

Do you think a top Club side in the Premier League would employ him?

Disagree.

We've had managers with good club records (Revie, Hodgson, Eriksson), thrown money at the problem (Capello), and hired poor managers just because they were English (Keegan, Hoddle).

In short, apart from unlucky misses with Robson and Venables, nothing has worked, suggesting the system is at fault rather than the man in charge.

Southgate is intelligent and is trying a different approach by building success from the junior teams upwards. He deserves the job as much as anyone and a fair crack at the job. I'd keep him for another 4 years even if England go out tonight. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

27 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Not sure where you are coming from on that. Belgium I understand, they are a few rungs above us in terms of quality, but we easily have players that Japan or Russia have. 

It's about showing the same tactical nous and intensity as they did in their games.

That's the thing, they did play at that level of intensity. Can we ? We'll find out tonight. If we don't we'll be going home, that's a certainty.

[J*B]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

Disagree.

We've had managers with good club records (Revie, Hodgson, Eriksson), thrown money at the problem (Capello), and hired poor managers just because they were English (Keegan, Hoddle).

In short, apart from unlucky misses with Robson and Venables, nothing has worked, suggesting the system is at fault rather than the man in charge.

Southgate is intelligent and is trying a different approach by building success from the junior teams upwards. He deserves the job as much as anyone and a fair crack at the job. I'd keep him for another 4 years even if England go out tonight. 

Harsh to put Hoddle in the poor manager category. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

42 minutes ago, Blow-in said:

In fairness England seem to be lethal from set pieces and crosses and I think that would be the undoing of a lot of the weaker teams in the last 16. You would have destroyed Japan. I also think Belgium would have an easier time against Columbia then they did with the Japanese. 

A lot of the teams are defending narrow but noone seems brave enough to play with real width except Mexico against the Germans.

But would we have been able to deal with the Japanese fantastic work rate and ability to move the ball around ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, J*B said:

Harsh to put Hoddle in the poor manager category. 

In that recent TV programme about England managers one of the former players said that some of Hoddles team were put out because he could still do things in training that they couldn't. That says a lot about the players.

[Husky]

7 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

I was a massive critic of the appointment of Southgate, because is stank of jobs for the boys, and he was pants at Boro. However he has done a lot better than capello and hodgson already, and by tomorrow he may have got the team to the quarter finals at least.

Perhaps he has studied, and learned from previous errors. Time will tell.

Then there's McSven and McClueless cocking up arguably our greatest squad.

[Husky]

10 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Delighted to see Courtois beaten twice with relatively low shots. 

Mouth.

Keep 'em low, keep 'em low.

 

[Husky]

34 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

 

Always a puzzle for me why Venables did not stay on after Euro 96. He had a very good England team with a great team spirit. Was it something to do with his dodgy business dealings ? 

Costa Del Crime.

[Husky]

38 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

These pundits just tell you the obvious. In days gone by when the likes of Malcolm Allison and a sober Brian Clough, Don Revie etc were on the panel you actually learned elements of the game that had passed you by.

Just watch it in a bar. They save you with 'three lions' as soon as HT and FT hit.

[roverandout]

4 hours ago, Paul said:

I know but that won't stop the BBC  I've just been reading about our 7% chance of winning the WC and Colombia's 2%. I mean come on.

Go and watch brazil then if you hate watching england so much..i for one am staying positive till its over