World Cup 2018

[Husky]

Just now, perthblue02 said:

I feel the same, bit too much of a everyone gets a prize about it ,we are all winners etc

Not good enough to get to the final, go home and try harder next time

What next with the World cup expansion? 23 rd place play off?

Makes it worse when you know the next World Cup is going to be in a pure non-football land in Western Winter (good luck with those outdoor fan-zones when it's 2c and pissing it down) and as you said, the one after that . . . ridiculously over killed - and in 3 different countries. The World Cup as we know it is over. And whatever anyone says - we will never get a better chance of getting to a final ever. Stats say, next semi-final for England should be about 2046 - by that time there might even be golf handicap type matches including in play game boosts, power-ups and plays and refereeing decision public votes etc.

It will be interesting to see if people start changing their minds about how it ended for England after the euphoria has died down a bit. I'm certainly more Graeme Souness than Ian Wright about the whole thing. BeIn Sports in general was far more grounded and sobering than BBC or ITV. The pundits there were pointing out England's weaknesses rather than getting on the whole 'it's coming home' bandwagon.

I had people offering me World Cup Final tickets several days before the semi and I was like, "Steady on this game is 50/50, I'm not making any plans until Wednesday night at full-time".

As for the youth (i.e. under 17 winners etc. that people are blabbing about). Well firstly most youth players fade away into relative obscurity, they just don't reach anywhere near their early potential. Secondly, as some have already mentioned in previous posts - the Premiership will end up ruining those players that do manage to push on a bit further - as we've said before - due to the foreign invasion - they will be less opportunities for game time as they will be 2nd in line to all the foreign players. Then there's the foreign owners and managers that couldn't give 2 hoots about the England team and constantly push the club over country line which some of our supposed Golden Generation admitted was a problem for several reasons.

Then you add in the materialism of modern life (which seems more apparent these days than ever); i.e. - the money grabbers and their agents (that of course don't care if their baby is sitting on the bench at a club paying more money rather than actually playing every week at a less rich club). It's a recipe for more of the same mediocrity we've seen during the last 20 years.

[Audax]

I admit, to be fair, a lot of people aren't really interested in the 3rd place playoff and when it is on TV.  That said, it appears to be modeled after the Olympics in that it gives out the bronze medal. It may actually be a bronze medal. I believe I've seen it referred to as such. There you go, https://www.thesun.co.uk/world-cup-2018/6762524/world-cup-bronze-medal-prize-money-third-place-play-off-england-belgium/

I think we are in a new phase of the World Cup, traditional powers such as Brazil may not be nearly as effective in the future. There is also, obviously, a gradual dominance by European powers. One never knows though, maybe finally, an African, Asian country will come into their own.

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Audax

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

So you were quite ok with losing the midfield, being pushed back into, at least, 5 at the back and playing hoofball to Kane who had to be knackered or injured and would have not tried any tactical/ formation change at all. Ok.

Example: Young was poor throughout his time onfield. Indeed he progressively got worse during this game and had a new hole torn in the second half resulting in the cross for the Croatian equaliser. He could have been replaced from halftime. However that is just a like for like sub.

Second half we were being over run in midfield but still trying going nowhere poorly executed tippy tappy triangles and flicks and also making virtually no progress down either flank.

Basically coming up short against the first decent team we met and bar like for like subs trying nothing to change rhe direction of the match.

Don't let desirable and applauded National pride negate good sense.

I agree with the Rose sub for Young. I did comment that the only sub I didn't agree with was the Vardy one. 

This is a young team and we will learn from this and only get better. we have a very bright future and some of the players coming through and a couple of players who Southgate didn't pick this time we will have a good chance of winning the Euro's. 

didn't agree that Croatia was the first decent team we come up against as we played 3 teams before who have been more than decent

Edited July 13, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[Silas]

56 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

I feel the same, bit too much of a everyone gets a prize about it ,we are all winners etc

Not good enough to get to the final, go home and try harder next time

What next with the World cup expansion? 23 rd place play off?

Everyone?!

This ain't a 7 year olds sports day. It's the World's biggest event for it's most popular sport, which only happens once every 4 years. 

3 out of 32 teams. 9%. Get a prize.

There's a winner, a runner up, and a 3rd place winner.

That's why this game does actually mean something to me. Because 4th place really is a losers spot. 

[perthblue02]

59 minutes ago, Silas said:

Everyone?!

This ain't a 7 year olds sports day. It's the World's biggest event for it's most popular sport, which only happens once every 4 years. 

3 out of 32 teams. 9%. Get a prize.

There's a winner, a runner up, and a 3rd place winner.

That's why this game does actually mean something to me. Because 4th place really is a losers spot. 

Only one winner all the rest are losers.* Maybe the team who gets beat in the final should get another chance to finish a winner and not a loser? Certainly deserve it more than a team they or their opponents beat previously. Could go into a three team group with the semi losers?

Suppose the FA see it as important an extra 1.5 million if England win (18.1 instead of 16.6 million)

* this is no way playing down Englands campaign, achieved a lot better than many expected including me

Anyway hope you enjoy the game

[Silas]

10 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

 

Anyway hope you enjoy the game

I'm fairly confident I won't.  

[bazza]

I would love England to win the bronze medal. I think they will go all out for it. But Belgium outclassed us in the group stages and, I'm afraid, will do so again.

If England had beaten Croatia they would have lost to France in the final.

I'm very proud of all that they've achieved but their class is not yet top. 

[Husky]

3 hours ago, bazza said:

I would love England to win the bronze medal. I think they will go all out for it. But Belgium outclassed us in the group stages and, I'm afraid, will do so again.

 

4 wins and 3 defeats or even 3 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats doesn't sound so good does it. That's bang average mid-table.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Husky

[Mike E]

35 minutes ago, Husky said:

4 wins and 3 defeats or even 3 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats doesn't sound so good does it. That's bang average mid-table.

And yet it got us to the semis.

It's actually 3 wins 2 draws 1 defeat atmo.

[Baz]

3rd 4th place play-off is a pointless game really..

Made only to fill tv schedules, and determine a position no one really wants anyway - could be done on results, goal diff etc.

It should be a celebration of football, and a lead up to the final. Maybe it needs to be a player of the tournament team vs a rest of the world team, north vs hemisphere, or something similar to get fans excited and maybe bring in players that play for small / lesser nations that otherwise wouldn't get a game at the world cup? Just something to add a bit of competition in there? Even a guaranteed spot at the next w/c? 

[matt83]

Not a fan of this 3rd place game that said I hope both teams play their strongest side as a barometer to see how far we’ve actually progressed.

This World Cup has been successful in that it seems to have rekindled people’s passion for the national side but I don’t buy the notion that as we expected quarters, therefore, because reached the semis it’s successful. We only expected quarters because should have played Germany or Brazil. Had we drawn Croatia in last 16 and lost they’d have been slammed and Southgate could feasibly have lost his job.

It was nice to dream for a couple of weeks and I did enjoy the national euphoria. But putting a negative slant on a tournament we scraped through vs a poor Tunisia wasting a plethora of chances, smashed a pub team, lost a reserve game, beat two average sides and then lost to a competently decent but not good side.

I am exited to a certain degree to see what this group of players can do (far removed from Iceland and Brazil World Cup debacle) but at the end of the day we’ve lost to bloody Croatia to get into a World Cup final. Brazil, Germany et al I could stomach but Croatia. Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Portugal even Holland and Italy will never be as bad at this year. There will never be a better chance of a final and we bottled it. As we have so many times before in different stages.

[Audax]

Croatia defeated Germany at the Euro 2008 or 2012 I believe, then played Turkey in the knockout rounds, Croatia was given a bad deal back in 2014 vs. Brazil.  Maybe they wouldn't win but the refs would not leet the host nation down.  Croatia has earned it and I think we will see more upstarts out there. I hope they win Sunday.  I think in '98, they were 3rd and they had Davor Sukor then.....

Edited July 14, 2018 by Audax

[AllRoverAsia]

On 13/07/2018 at 04:24, chaddyrovers said:

Not in my opinion but hey ho, but we the really good up and coming players we have coming from under 21 level and under there is plenty of optimism and quality players coming there. Plus other players not picked. The next few years could be very good going forward. Southgate performed better than most people gave him and instead the fan base have really took to him and his manner with them

going 4-4-2 last night wasn't the answered but That's said the players will learnt from this experience and it will help them in the future. 

Sticking with a back 3 which due to the high press by Croatia, all game but most obvious after half time, became a back 5 was naive.

The high press forced Henderson even more into his preferred out pass to the back '3/5' and them to their preferred out pass back to Pickford who was also pressed resulting in his aimless kicking often with his weaker foot.

Meanwhile the use of the lightweight Ali and Lingard in any creative role was nullified as was any useful progress upfield up our flanks.

The England team did not bottle it, well maybe Kane  did at a player level with his first half double F-up, but we were most certainly out thought and nothing at all was offered by Southgate to try to counteract the effective Croatian tactics.

[Silas]

6 hours ago, matt83 said:

...... but at the end of the day we’ve lost to bloody Croatia to get into a World Cup final. Brazil, Germany et al I could stomach but Croatia.

Why?!

England and Croatia have both been 10th to 20th in the World Rankings the last 3 years.

So, in comparison, you're basically a West Ham fan having kittens because Southampton knocked you out the FA Cup.

Moaning that it wasn't Man City or Chelsea.

Very strange. 

It's stuff like that makes the other home countries hate us. Some deluded visions of grandeur.  

Some people have the memories of goldfish. 

In the last 50 years the only countries we've beaten in 90 mins at knockout phases are Paraguay, Denmark, and Ecuador.

Hardly footballing giants. But we're supposed to breeze through a very good Croatian team. 

It's been a great World Cup, but I think a reality check is needed to bring people back down to earth.

We've done "better" than usual. But we're a long way from realistically competing for trophies, World or Euro. 

[tomphil]

I think the thing with England that frustrates a lot is the fact we usually self combust at some point and throw it away despite being in a decent position to do better. That gets mistaken for over expectation at times when really it's just frustration that they can't see a job through they are more than capable of doing. It's rare we get tanked and you can just say we are crap.

In this case though we were only just beaten by a slightly better more experienced outfit who more than deserve their place in the final on merit. We didn't bottle it they just edged it no matter how you dress it up and this one is far easier to take on the chin than a lot of the other exits.

 

[joey_big_nose]

37 minutes ago, Silas said:

 

In the last 50 years the only countries we've beaten in 90 mins at knockout phases are Paraguay, Denmark, and Ecuador.

 

Devastating summary that!

[Rover_Shaun]

I like it when people shorten it to 90 minutes just to make their point look better, like extra time is irrelevant ?

[joey_big_nose]

39 minutes ago, Silas said:

We've done "better" than usual. But we're a long way from realistically competing for trophies, World or Euro. 

While I agree in the raw talent stakes we are a long way behind other major football nations one sliver of hope is this world cup and the last Euros suggest you don't actually need the best talent to be in with a shout. The beauty of knockout football.

 

[Rover_Shaun]

Football is a team game. One day an unfancied country will win the WC because they are a good collective unit rather than the best collective of individuals. It's happened a few times in the euros but as yet never at a WC.      Though Croatia could yet be that team. (Who also had a very easy run through the knockout stages)

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rover_Shaun

[joey_big_nose]

Just now, Rover_Shaun said:

I like it when people shorten it to 90 minutes just to make their point look better, like extra time is irrelevant ?

Well it's a true enough stat. Compared to Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Netherlands, France etc. we really struggle in the knockout stages.

[matt83]

53 minutes ago, Silas said:

Why?!

England and Croatia have both been 10th to 20th in the World Rankings the last 3 years.

So, in comparison, you're basically a West Ham fan having kittens because Southampton knocked you out the FA Cup.

Moaning that it wasn't Man City or Chelsea.

Very strange. 

It's stuff like that makes the other home countries hate us. Some deluded visions of grandeur.  

Some people have the memories of goldfish. 

In the last 50 years the only countries we've beaten in 90 mins at knockout phases are Paraguay, Denmark, and Ecuador.

Hardly footballing giants. But we're supposed to breeze through a very good Croatian team. 

It's been a great World Cup, but I think a reality check is needed to bring people back down to earth.

We've done "better" than usual. But we're a long way from realistically competing for trophies, World or Euro. 

And Sweden.

The why I can’t stomach it isn’t because I think we’ve a divine right to win or “breeze through” but because once again in my opinion an inferior side knocked us out not a team we’d have no chance against. I don’t know but I’d wager they’re lower than us in the rankings. 

Hardly delusions of grandeur not beating a very beatable team. 

Also great World Cup? More fortunate draw I’d say. Could potentially have lost our 3rd match by close of play today in this great World Cup. 

[Rover_Shaun]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Well it's a true enough stat. Compared to Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Netherlands, France etc. we really struggle in the knockout stages.

Belgium and Cameroon were despatched in extra time. Colombia were beaten on pens which is a test of metal. They cannot be dismissed purely to trump up a stat 

Unless we are also dismissing the 66 final

[Silas]

24 minutes ago, Rover_Shaun said:

I like it when people shorten it to 90 minutes just to make their point look better, like extra time is irrelevant ?

Of course it's a relevant stat. A football match is 90 mins. You try to win the game in that time. Extra time is a bonus section that you tackle when you've failed at your first objective.

Here you go, in comparison in that time Germany have beaten in 90 mins knockout:

Brazil , Netherlands, France, Argentina, Czech Republic, Belgium, Mexico, England etc,etc 

(I haven't even bothered with the likes of USA, South Korea, Sweden)

Can you spot the difference there?! 

[Husky]

10 hours ago, Baz said:

3rd 4th place play-off is a pointless game really..

Made only to fill tv schedules, and determine a position no one really wants anyway - could be done on results, goal diff etc.

It should be a celebration of football, and a lead up to the final. Maybe it needs to be a player of the tournament team vs a rest of the world team, north vs hemisphere, or something similar to get fans excited and maybe bring in players that play for small / lesser nations that otherwise wouldn't get a game at the world cup? Just something to add a bit of competition in there? Even a guaranteed spot at the next w/c? 

How about a FIFA console tournament on the big screen? That would get the smart-phones out en masse.

[Husky]

9 hours ago, matt83 said:

Not a fan of this 3rd place game that said I hope both teams play their strongest side as a barometer to see how far we’ve actually progressed.

This World Cup has been successful in that it seems to have rekindled people’s passion for the national side but I don’t buy the notion that as we expected quarters, therefore, because reached the semis it’s successful. We only expected quarters because should have played Germany or Brazil. Had we drawn Croatia in last 16 and lost they’d have been slammed and Southgate could feasibly have lost his job.

It was nice to dream for a couple of weeks and I did enjoy the national euphoria. But putting a negative slant on a tournament we scraped through vs a poor Tunisia wasting a plethora of chances, smashed a pub team, lost a reserve game, beat two average sides and then lost to a competently decent but not good side.

I am exited to a certain degree to see what this group of players can do (far removed from Iceland and Brazil World Cup debacle) but at the end of the day we’ve lost to bloody Croatia to get into a World Cup final. Brazil, Germany et al I could stomach but Croatia. Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Portugal even Holland and Italy will never be as bad at this year. There will never be a better chance of a final and we bottled it. As we have so many times before in different stages.

I'm with you. I have a feeling that after the dust has long settled, this tournament will be seen as a big failure. There's a reason that England don't do well in the World Cup - and that's because we always lose to the first decent (1st tier) team we play. Even back in 1990 with a supposedly better team . . . Belgium and Cameroon awaited . . and then of course the first decent team put us out. It's just the way it is . . . .

This WC was a massive opportunity missed, and it might never ever happen again.

I doubt France will be talking about their young team being better in Qatar should Croatia do the unthinkable.