[Archived] Northampton Town v Rovers

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, meadows said:

I’d say there’s a fair argument and weight of evidence that Wigan have the best players so far. Won more, lost fewer, scored more, conceded 40% fewer than us. That’s a pretty impressive first half of the season in anyone’s book. 

Shrewsbury have also won more than us, lost less than us and conceded fewer goals than us so far So on those criteria they have better players and are a better side than us. 

I don't think that is the case. If however I'm wrong and they do have better players than us then something is very, very, wrong with this football club and its management/recruitment given the disparity in finances, experience and size of the two clubs in question.

I completely accept that it isn't as simple as translating expenditure and reputations into success on the pitch. As it stands we're behind them and have been all season long. That either means they are better than us, in which case we've gone wrong somewhere, or they aren't better than us, in which case we are underachieving at present.

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, meadows said:

I’d say there’s a fair argument and weight of evidence that Wigan have the best players so far. Won more, lost fewer, scored more, conceded 40% fewer than us. That’s a pretty impressive first half of the season in anyone’s book. 

Or a manager with more savvy when it comes to getting promotion and more experience in the lower leagues .

[RV Blue]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Bolton were in third place last Christmas in League One and by March were in fourth place before a run of wins in March took them into second place - which is how they finished.  Seems to me we are right on track at the moment which, as a happy clapper, pleases me no end.

So because Bolton had a good second half of the season so will we? What a stupid argument. The fact remains that we are in 3rd place and Bolton finished in 2nd place, we are on target to finish in a lower place than them. I'd like to know how you think being in 3rd place means we are 'on track' to finish in 2nd place, care to explain? Bare in mind that Bolton were under a transfer embargo and had a significantly worse team than they did in the Championship, whilst we have a significantly better team than last year.

[Parsonblue]

Just now, RV Blue said:

So because Bolton had a good second half of the season so will we? What a stupid argument. The fact remains that we are in 3rd place and Bolton finished in 2nd place, we are on target to finish in a lower place than them. I'd like to know how you think being in 3rd place means we are 'on track' to finish in 2nd place, care to explain? Bare in mind that Bolton were under a transfer embargo and had a significantly worse team than they did in the Championship, whilst we have a significantly better team than last year.

You quoted Bolton as an example and said how easy it was for them.  If Bolton could be fourth in March and finish second there is no reason why we shouldn't jump from third to second with still a half-a-season left to play.  It's an academic discussion anyway as I think even Venky's have more sense than to get rid of a manager who is delivering a two-points-a-game average.    

[RV Blue]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

You quoted Bolton as an example and said how easy it was for them.  If Bolton could be fourth in March and finish second there is no reason why we shouldn't jump from third to second with still a half-a-season left to play.  It's an academic discussion anyway as I think even Venky's have more sense than to get rid of a manager who is delivering a two-points-a-game average.    

I understand that the manager is going nowhere, he just appointed his mate as CEO ffs. If I remember rightly, Mowbray had Coventry around the automatic places at Christmas in the 15/16 season and they finished outside the playoffs, there's no reason why we couldn't do the same. We can only go off what we have actually seen, and we aren't yet on target for what would be considered a success this season, it is as simple as that.

[Vinjay]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I was there yesterday and for me we still lack some of the dirty tricks that you need in this division, we saw it against Wimbledon and again yesterday.

Their keeper constantly wasting time, their Andy Carroll lookalike O’Toole elbowing, shirt pulling, kicking the ball away etc. 

Wigan know the league and I wager know all the dark arts.

Some keepers do that in the PL. Maybe not everywhere but at certain stadiums. It irritates the fans and like suckers they fall for it (causing frustration is exactly what they want) though to an extent its trying to get the referees attention.

[Vinjay]

32 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

You quoted Bolton as an example and said how easy it was for them.  If Bolton could be fourth in March and finish second there is no reason why we shouldn't jump from third to second with still a half-a-season left to play.  It's an academic discussion anyway as I think even Venky's have more sense than to get rid of a manager who is delivering a two-points-a-game average.    

People are just highlighting warning signs. In all due respect during periods of decline (albeit with some respites) especially in the early 70's you and others probably failed to see them on numerous occasions. The players need to know they are under pressure here (that's how it is at big clubs call it arrogance but this fanbase is entitled to expect better than League 1) and while loud boos may not help they also need to know if its not good enough. Just recently you were saying you preferred youth games to first team games a few successive wins seem to have boosted your confidence rapidly.

I don't essentially think Mowbray should go right now as it would make little sense with the timing. Still have doubts about him in L1 (which may be enough to overcome I'm not ruling out 2nd or a playoff win though I can't see beyond Wigan for 1st) and certainly at Championship level. Infact if the club gets promoted I would favour replacing him though an "up and coming" coach carries risks of course but sometimes you need to see whether someone might sink or swim. Mowbray has sunk one time too many given his last few managerial roles. Replacing him wouldn't be because of entitlement but because nobody wants the club to go right back down again or be involved in a relegation battle. If taking a step to hopefully avoid that is entitlement then I guess that's what it is. I'm not saying in event of promotion the club should immediately expect a new manager to win the Championship. It would be good though to have someone who people think might be capable of building towards it over 3, 4 seasons. OK Mowbray did it in the past but could he do it again? I'm not remotely convinced. At least in this league I'm not ruling promotion out while he's here. I don't think 3rd is a disaster at this stage either but if it wasn't with a manager who's repeatedly failed in recent roles there might be more assurance.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Those at the game,what was the view on Grahams performance?

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, JHRover said:

'Still 3rd'

As I keep saying that is meaningless at this stage when we need the top 2 and haven't yet been in there this season. It isn't a positive that we're still 3rd given the results yesterday for the top 2. More important is that the gap to Wigan and Shrewsbury has widened once again and that now puts more pressure on us to win the next few to catch up to them.

Because of our mediocre start to the season we are still playing catch up to the top 2 despite an impressive run of results since October. 

I've heard people saying we should forget about Wigan as they're gone and concentrate on getting above Shrewsbury. I'm afraid if we're less than half way through the season and we're already talking about writing off the title and conceding 1st place and are now worrying about beating Shrewsbury Town to 2nd it is nothing to be pleased about. 

'At least we're still 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th' can be trotted out after every non-win for the rest of the season. It won't get us anywhere when the target should be 2nd at the least.

The response to yesterday's performance shouldn't be 'don't worry lads, we've had a good run and we're still 3rd because Bradford lost at Wimbledon'

The response to yesterday should be 'that performance was nowhere near good enough for a side aiming to get promoted. Northampton out fought us for the majority. It isn't good enough and has to improve' along with kicks up some backsides in the dressing room.

 

 

blimey

we are averaging 2 points a game and we lost 4 out of our 1st 11 games and still 3rd. 

Results are what matters and not performances. Yes some performances aren't great but we got results 

we are 3rd in the league cos we got more points than Bradford and any team below us. SIMPLE AS!

The seasons hasn't finish yet and we only played 22 games and still 24 games to go. We have won 6 games on the bounce and currently on 11 games unbeaten run and we are 2nd top scorers of this league and 4th best defensive record and a quarter of the games we conceded were in the 1st 2 games. 

So now isn't the time to be complaining but time to get behind the lads and be vocal

7 hours ago, RV Blue said:

I would still sack Mowbray now, he isn't good enough. If we go up it is despite him, not because of him. 3rd place isn't good enough, we have the best squad in the league and the biggest budget, a decent manager would have us top of the league and be virtually guaranteed of promotion already (a bit like Wigan are now). Mowbray has thrown plenty of points away already this season and I wouldn't bet against him doing the same in the second half of the season.

sack a manager who has us 3rd? really? how crazy and deluded are some fans? 

we are not entitled to nothing and have to win and deserve to go up. 

[Waggy76]

9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Those at the game,what was the view on Grahams performance?

he didn't get much service to be fair but he was very sluggish when he did find it !

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

blimey

we are averaging 2 points a game and we lost 4 out of our 1st 11 games and still 3rd. 

Results are what matters and not performances. Yes some performances aren't great but we got results 

we are 3rd in the league cos we got more points than Bradford and any team below us. SIMPLE AS!

The seasons hasn't finish yet and we only played 22 games and still 24 games to go. We have won 6 games on the bounce and currently on 11 games unbeaten run and we are 2nd top scorers of this league and 4th best defensive record and a quarter of the games we conceded were in the 1st 2 games. 

So now isn't the time to be complaining but time to get behind the lads and be vocal

sack a manager who has us 3rd? really? how crazy and deluded are some fans? 

we are not entitled to nothing and have to win and deserve to go up. 

As I've tried to explain today, not many people will moan about performances whilst we are winning, which is why Mowbray has had credit recently for sending us on a winning run despite several games where we haven't played particularly well (Charlton, Blackpool, Bristol Rovers). 

However, when we don't win AND don't play well, especially against the dross in this league - then criticism will come. It comes with the territory of being a big club in this league. I'm sure the manager wasn't happy with our performance yesterday, his comments in the press suggest he wasn't, so I don't see why I should be happy with it, or should 'deal with it' because we've won the last few. In isolation yesterday wasn't good enough and I'm not sure what being 3rd or having won the last few has to do with it. 

It isn't expecting to win every week. Nobody can do that. But it isn't wrong to expect a better performance than we got.

If we'd have gone to Northampton and performed as I would expect a promotion chasing team to perform - dominate, create chances, push Northampton back, have them defending for their lives for long spells - then I might feel a bit better despite not getting the 3 points. It happens. However my view of yesterday's performance was that we were slow, 2nd best in most areas, 2nd to every ball, created next to nothing apart from in the last 10 minutes. Northampton looked more up for it than us, more determined than us and more of a game plan plan than us. It speaks volumes for how poor teams are in this league that despite our performance over 60-70 minutes being weary that we could and probably should have still snatched the 3 points.

As mentioned earlier, this 'entitlement' concept is tiring. We expect to be in the top 2 because the manager himself has made it clear that is where we should be. No different to Man Utd or Man City demanding to be in the top 4. Their fans and directors would be unhappy if they were falling short of that given their size and expenditure and the same principle applies here in the 3rd division. Our expenditure, expectations and size demand we are up there. Yes we have to earn it but it isn't greedy or feeling entitled to expect a top 2 push when the club currently directly above us has so much less than us to work with.

 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

As I've tried to explain today, not many people will moan about performances whilst we are winning, which is why Mowbray has had credit recently for sending us on a winning run despite several games where we haven't played particularly well (Charlton, Blackpool, Bristol Rovers). 

However, when we don't win AND don't play well, especially against the dross in this league - then criticism will come. It comes with the territory of being a big club in this league. I'm sure the manager wasn't happy with our performance yesterday, his comments in the press suggest he wasn't, so I don't see why I should be happy with it, or should 'deal with it' because we've won the last few. In isolation yesterday wasn't good enough and I'm not sure what being 3rd or having won the last few has to do with it. 

It isn't expecting to win every week. Nobody can do that. But it isn't wrong to expect a better performance than we got.

If we'd have gone to Northampton and performed as I would expect a promotion chasing team to perform - dominate, create chances, push Northampton back, have them defending for their lives for long spells - then I might feel a bit better despite not getting the 3 points. It happens. However my view of yesterday's performance was that we were slow, 2nd best in most areas, 2nd to every ball, created next to nothing apart from in the last 10 minutes. Northampton looked more up for it than us, more determined than us and more of a game plan plan than us. It speaks volumes for how poor teams are in this league that despite our performance over 60-70 minutes being weary that we could and probably should have still snatched the 3 points.

As mentioned earlier, this 'entitlement' concept is tiring. We expect to be in the top 2 because the manager himself has made it clear that is where we should be. No different to Man Utd or Man City demanding to be in the top 4. Their fans and directors would be unhappy if they were falling short of that given their size and expenditure and the same principle applies here in the 3rd division. Our expenditure, expectations and size demand we are up there. Yes we have to earn it but it isn't greedy or feeling entitled to expect a top 2 push when the club currently directly above us has so much less than us to work with.

 

The Plymouth performance was good apart from putting the ball in the net and on another day it would be 4 or 5 nil. Look at the Rotherham and Portsmouth performance which were very good. 

Mowbray has said he wasn't happy with the performance and Andy Bayes said Mowbray looked frustrated figure on the touchline. 

another of players had a off day and I'm sure Mowbray would have talk to the players this morning about the game and what needs to improve. They aren't training tomorrow which hopefully will be a good thing. 

Yes a lot of fans expect 1st or 2nd before the start of the season and we are well on course to do so. I just feel far too many fans get annoyed or anxious very quickly after a draw or loss. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Mowbray seems to be unhappy with the performances on a regular basis. 

[darrenrover]

8 hours ago, meadows said:

I’d say Shrewsbury have done extremely well with very limited resources. Clubs are allowed to do that and can do if they’re run well. That’s how we made playoffs  offs three times in the 80s while likes of Leeds & Sunderland didn’t & how Burnley got promoted twice while far more monied teams floundered. 

But I’d say Wigan look like being as powerful second half of season as thry have been first and will get an automatic place while Shrewsbury already look to be flagging. I would be very surprised if they stay in the top two. 

Whether us or someone else passes them I don’t know. What would your thoughts be if say Bradford or Charlton suddenly found £4m to spend in January? That we therefore couldn’t compete & might as well pack up having a go? Of course not because as we all know if league positions were decided by £££ spent in every case there would be no need to play actual games.  

You cant really decide “we’ve gone wrong” until we know the outcome of the season. Both Wigan & Shrewsbury deserve to be where they are but history tells you the top two st Christmas don’t  finish top two in every League every season. 

Enjoy watching it unfold. If any of us knew how football matches were going to pan out we’d all be nailing accumulators every week. 

 

We're not good enough to be third IMO. I don't know where Parson is coming from, I love The Rovers every bit as much as he but we have been nothing but rank average so far this season IMO. If we have any serious aspirations of finishing in the top 2, then we need to sign a couple of inspirational players and collectively, look and play like serious promotion contenders.

Currently, throughout the team, we are not good enough and as a club are carrying far too many passengers. 

[Gav]

5 hours ago, darrenrover said:

We're not good enough to be third IMO. I don't know where Parson is coming from, I love The Rovers every bit as much as he but we have been nothing but rank average so far this season IMO. If we have any serious aspirations of finishing in the top 2, then we need to sign a couple of inspirational players and collectively, look and play like serious promotion contenders.

Currently, throughout the team, we are not good enough and as a club are carrying far too many passengers. 

Sometimes it's like the last 7yrs never happened. Win one, draw one and lose under Bowyer, Lose every week under Berg and don't get me started on Coyle.....

We're complaining that the sides 'average' the performances are poor in parts, do people not realiased that we're in the 3rd division? That's what you get in this league, because the quality of players is on the whole average and inconsistent. 

Not aimed at you darren but we have a significant section of the fan base still living in the Premiership with the club/players very much 3rd division.

The sides not lost for months, we're 3rd in the division, let's have a bit of perspective.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

You don't think we've be rank average this season then ? 

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Sometimes it's like the last 7yrs never happened. Win one, draw one and lose under Bowyer, Lose every week under Berg and don't get me started on Coyle.....

We're complaining that the sides 'average' the performances are poor in parts, do people not realiased that we're in the 3rd division? That's what you get in this league, because the quality of players is on the whole average and inconsistent. 

Not aimed at you darren but we have a significant section of the fan base still living in the Premiership with the club/players very much 3rd division.

The sides not lost for months, we're 3rd in the division, let's have a bit of perspective.

We are all looking for performances were we put together seventy minutes of consistency rather than the usual fifteen to twenty minutes. In fairness we have been doing enough in the smaller period to win games recently but when we don't win there is an element of frustration of which Mowbray has alluded to (and agrees with) after each of these. That quite often is what football fans, managers and players do in the quest for perfection. If they rested on their laurels because we have won it wouldn't be too professional in my opinion.ĺ

[tomphil]

At least Mowbray basically said it was crap no blaming it soley on the pitch, surroundings, fans, weather, grass etc etc

Quite refreshing if nothing else.

Merry Christmas !

[Gav]

32 minutes ago, arbitro said:

We are all looking for performances were we put together seventy minutes of consistency rather than the usual fifteen to twenty minutes. In fairness we have been doing enough in the smaller period to win games recently but when we don't win there is an element of frustration of which Mowbray has alluded to (and agrees with) after each of these. That quite often is what football fans, managers and players do in the quest for perfection. If they rested on their laurels because we have won it wouldn't be too professional in my opinion.ĺ

We've got expectations way beyond where they should be after 7yrs of utter sh1te is my point.

Striving to be better isn't being questioned by me, expecting consistency week in week out is.

We didn't get beat at the weekend, haven't been beaten in months, and some are calling for the managers head?

Need I say more....

[Mark45]

On 12/24/2017 at 11:21, RV Blue said:

I would still sack Mowbray now, he isn't good enough. 3rd place isn't good enough

Burnley fc fan? or drunk?

 

[blueboy3333]

14 minutes ago, Gav said:

We've got expectations way beyond where they should be after 7yrs of utter sh1te is my point

You might want to tell Mowbray, he's been the one saying he'll get sacked if we don't go up and questioning his own ability if he doesn't get promotion with the squad he's got.

We're level pegging (give or take a win or two) with Wigan, Shrewsbury, Scunny and Bradford after half the season. If you'll forgive a cliché we've now got 24 cup finals left to make sure we finish above at least 3 of them. It doesn't matter what the fans think, it's what happens on the pitch that counts. All we can do is support, which hopefully increasing numbers will do as we progress.

If we don't go up this season we could be stuck down here for a long, long time because rest assured Mulgrew, Dack and Smallwood won't be sticking around if they get Championship offers. My expectation is we go up in the top 2. Mowbray has the players, he's had the backing, it's up to him to deliver. No excuses.

Merry Christmas!

[Al]

19 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

he didn't get much service to be fair but he was very sluggish when he did find it !

Graham only shows any form when he has been dropped for 3 matches or so and gets on after an hour. He needs putting out to grass.

[philipl]

7 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You don't think we've be rank average this season then ? 

Rank average in a rank bad league might be good enough for automatic promotion.. 

[47er]

On 25/12/2017 at 02:50, Parsonblue said:

You quoted Bolton as an example and said how easy it was for them.  If Bolton could be fourth in March and finish second there is no reason why we shouldn't jump from third to second with still a half-a-season left to play.  It's an academic discussion anyway as I think even Venky's have more sense than to get rid of a manager who is delivering a two-points-a-game average.    

 Well, it might happen and it might not. By definition a "happy clapper" such as yourself is likely to assume it will!

The objective truth is that we haven't done as well as we should have, given our resources, and we could feel find ourselves in the lottery that is the play-offs at the end of the season.

You might then argue we are the best team in the playoffs but it means nothing till we prove it.

[Tom]

Sounded like Nuttall did ok again, a few flicks to release players? Think he's more a sub at the moment but he seems well worth his place in the first team squad.

Kind of think long term it's good for us, if it was him bagging all the goals he'd be looking at options, as it is he's looking good but probably not attracting too much attention.