Venkys London Ltd accounts

[JBiz]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Could not agree more re the pint thing.

It’s almost like they don’t expect loads of people to buy stuff at half time....

The last two home games in JW upper, they have run out of pies before half time!

Still sore about that..!

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

I’d venture Lenihan, Travis, Nyambe in that order is our new pecking order of saleable assets. 

For FFP purposes it’s not simply a case of adding up the last three years’ losses & hoping it comes to less than £39m of course. The running costs of the academy are an allowable expense for FFP so the development and onward sale of talent is the most likely income stream. Ticket sales aren’t growing, non-Matchday revenues opportunities are minimal, sponsorship in the Championship isn’t great, TV money is better than League One but nothing to write home about so player sales is the only other option.

I suspect that under their new (former Burnley) CEO, the EFL will soon stop the sale & leaseback of a stadium; a loophole closed. Sheff Weds hilarious legal action will bring that to a conclusion no doubt. 
Rovers recently advertised for a new head of commercial or marketing or something like that, with responsibility for growing revenues...having seen these figures, it’s no wonder. That role is probably the 2nd most important in the club right now. 

If it was so important to grow income and revenues I would expect to see the club go out and headhunt a proven successful individual from elsewhere in the industry. The fact we are advertising for the role suggests we will react to those who apply rather than proactively go out and recruit a leading figure and pay him/her top dollar to deliver results.

Let's be realistic. At no stage during Venky ownership have we had an executive structure worthy of a club of this size and stature.

Why did the last commercial manager leave? 

Why have we not had a commercial director since Dave Biggar went off to America having landed the lucrative sponsorship deal with Dafabet?

Even when we've had people like Waggott and Shaw they have ended up in the job through being mates with the right people and havent really had any power.

What freedom will the new commercial person have to revitalise that department of the club? Very little would be my prediction.

The owners have shown no desire nor interest to employ the right calibre of people to run the club on the lines required to make a big difference. Shame but that's their decision.

A bit like they've never invested sufficiently in the playing or coaching staff to propel us into serious contention. Up to them.

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by JHRover

[Crimpshrine]

59 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

An alternative interpretation is that our losses are entirely a consequence of being a mid-table Championship club rather than anything uniquely Venky-esque in how the club is run. (Image nicked off Twitter)

Given those figures how did all the clubs in the top bunch ( other than Brum ) avoid points deductions for FFP on the basis of one season alone ?

Why were Birmingham singled out ? 

[Herbie6590]

8 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Given those figures how did all the clubs in the top bunch ( other than Brum ) avoid points deductions for FFP on the basis of one season alone ?

Why were Birmingham singled out ? 

I think that graphic is accounting operating losses.

FFP has its own calculation to take into account allowable expenses etc so the net profit from the accounts is adjusted to create an "FFP profit" figure which is then rolled up to generate the 3 year figure (must be <£39m) which is the threshold calculation...

[tonygreenbank]

1 hour ago, Crimpshrine said:

But this time it was avoidable and self inflicted!

Couldn’t agree more. I’m reading John Duerden’s book on the Rovers Revolution and he describes the progress of the club from the cash strapped days of the 70’s and 80’s. Rovers had to sell Kevin Stonehouse to Huddersfield for £30k just to pay a utility bill!

Most of us thought those days were long gone. We were the kings of the castle not so long ago; now thanks to certain individuals we are the paupers at the gate.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Herbie6590 said:

I think that graphic is accounting operating losses.

FFP has its own calculation to take into account allowable expenses etc so the net profit from the accounts is adjusted to create an "FFP profit" figure which is then rolled up to generate the 3 year figure (must be <£39m) which is the threshold calculation...

Yes and some of those clubs are or have been in the Premier League since the most recent published numbers so have the boost from that; Derby and Sheffield Wednesday sold their grounds.

[RoverCanada]

15 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Given those figures how did all the clubs in the top bunch ( other than Brum ) avoid points deductions for FFP on the basis of one season alone ?

Why were Birmingham singled out ? 

A few points:

- Those appear to be 'operating losses', which excludes player trading. Most Championship clubs make fairly hefty player trading profits. Villa, for example, made £16m in profits in 2018. Middlesbrough and Forest have made significant sales in recent years too. Bristol City has been running under the 'benefactor model' for years, but then made huge sales in 2019 (they actually netted a profit of £10m last year after player sales). Leeds have been roughly breaking even the last few years due to player trading.

- FFP is a 3-year window, so how much those individual season losses matter depends on the context of the 3-year window, which may include the higher allowed losses of the PL (see Villa and Stoke). (Villa's 2019 numbers will be interesting to say the least... they were quite fortunate to get promoted! Although sounds like they also went the stadium selling route)

- You also need to consider promotion bonuses, which are de facto excluded from FFP (I think due to a combination of it being unfair to punish clubs for rewarding players/staff with a share of the coming PL windfall and EFL not really having that much teeth to punish clubs once they're promoted) - applies to Wolves, Norwich, and Fulham

- I think that leaves Derby (who did the stadium selling trickery), Sheffield Wed (who are due to have the book thrown at them this year for seemingly bungling their own stadium selling chicanery), and Reading (who appear to have benefited from a number of 'exceptional' accounting items, such as property sales and the realization of a grant). Reading's the curious one for me. Apparently they had a 'soft' transfer ban this past summer, whatever that means...

- Bit of a side point and not as significant as the above, but you also need to consider FFP exclusions for academy and community expenditure, which applies to many of the above clubs. With our significant facilities, I suspect that gives us another £4-5m of FFP room per year (hence why our 'other' operating expenditure is relatively high for the Championship at £8-12m/year)

Edited December 31, 2019 by RoverCanada

[Vinjay]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

Why have we not had a commercial director since Dave Biggar went off to America having landed the lucrative sponsorship deal with Dafabet?

 

Because Myers brought him in. Perhaps though with the new "head of commercial" vacancy they are taking steps. Not sure what Coar's title will be now.

F*** U Platini. (FUP)

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, RoverCanada said:

A few points:

- Those appear to be 'operating losses', which excludes player trading. Most Championship clubs make fairly hefty player trading profits. Villa, for example, made £16m in profits in 2018. Middlesbrough and Forest have made significant sales in recent years too. Bristol City has been running under the 'benefactor model' for years, but then made huge sales in 2019 (they actually netted a profit of £10m last year after player sales). Leeds have been roughly breaking even the last few years due to player trading.

- FFP is a 3-year window, so how much those individual season losses matter depends on the context of the 3-year window, which may include the higher allowed losses of the PL (see Villa and Stoke). (Villa's 2019 numbers will be interesting to say the least... they were quite fortunate to get promoted!)

- You also need to consider promotion bonuses, which are de facto excluded from FFP (I think due to a combination of it being unfair to punish clubs for rewarding players/staff with a share of the coming PL windfall and EFL not really having that much teeth to punish clubs once they're promoted) - applies to Wolves, Norwich, and Fulham

- I think that leaves Derby (who did the stadium selling trickery), Sheffield Wed (who are due to have the book thrown at them this year), and Reading (who appear to have benefited from a number of 'exceptional' accounting items, such as property sales and the realization of a grant). Reading's the curious one for me. Apparently they had a 'soft' transfer ban this past summer, whatever that means...

- Bit of a side point and not as significant as the above, but you also need to consider FFP exclusions for academy and community expenditure, which applies to many of the above clubs. With our significant facilities, I suspect that gives us another £4-5m of FFP room per year (hence why our 'other' operating expenditure is relatively high for the Championship at £8-12m/year)

Yes - I had a quick look through the clubs quoted with high losses and Reading were the club I couldn't work out ; if there was a property sale that would explain it

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Yes - I had a quick look through the clubs quoted with high losses and Reading were the club I couldn't work out ; if there was a property sale that would explain it

Reading have some shenanigans with land adjacent to their ground I seem to recall...I'm sure it will all be above board... *cough*

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Why did the last commercial manager leave? 

Why have we not had a commercial director since Dave Biggar went off to America having landed the lucrative sponsorship deal with Dafabet?

do think the last one leave but Greg Coar has been both role head of commercial and marketing. Look like they are splitting the role up now

[cesus]

Well another hideous set of financial results for the club. £18.2m loss for the year, wages at 134% of turnover, wages rose by over £5m.

This sport is absolutely shot to pieces!

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just the number we expected.

£35 million over 2 seasons.

The trick now in season 3 is to get the loss down from £18 million to about £4 million. Anyone know how we can rustle up £15 million ? Thanks Bradley.

No wonder Waggott is desperate to get the FFP rules suspended due to the virus. And the exact reason why it won't happen as many clubs would basically cheat their way out of trouble and get into unsustainable debt in the process. Oh wait....

[Herbie6590]

Some screen grabs of the key elements of the accounts here - the economics of the (Championship) madhouse...

[Crimpshrine]

Overdraft increasd by about £3,000,000.

Anyone got any idea why they would borrow more money from the Bank when they have declared the company has 'sufficient funds and is willing to provide additional financing as may be required'. Given the interest rate this seems a bit odd.

[chaddyrovers]

Just watching Sunderland still I die series 2 on Netflix, you see Stewart Donald going through the finances line by line. Plus comments made by Charlie Methven at fans meeting that the club was shit show and employees had no conception of it cos at the end of the month they just send a bill to a rich man in Florida who sent a cheque 

Edited April 2, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Herbie6590]

7 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

Overdraft increasd by about £3,000,000.

Anyone got any idea why they would borrow more money from the Bank when they have declared the company has 'sufficient funds and is willing to provide additional financing as may be required'. Given the interest rate this seems a bit odd.

Accounts are prepared at a single point in time. Overdraft usage will fluctuate during the cycle of a month, quarter, season etc. The best way to calculate average usage is to look at total interest charges & interest rate charged & calculate average balance. 
a single figure on a single day is essentially meaningless.

[Stuart]

So £152m in debt with £128m owed to Venkys. An increase of 17% in one year. Champion. 

They really have been fantastic for this club over the last 9 years. By ‘this club’, I of course mean the Old Boys Club.

We should all not only be grateful but should help them by getting the dwindling fanbase to pay for this mess. If they want people to rally round after the lockdown they really need to not market it as somehow supporting the Raos.

[TBTF]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

So £152m in debt with £128m owed to Venkys. An increase of 17% in one year. Champion. 

They really have been fantastic for this club over the last 9 years. By ‘this club’, I of course mean the Old Boys Club.

We should all not only be grateful but should help them by getting the dwindling fanbase to pay for this mess. If they want people to rally round after the lockdown they really need to not market it as somehow supporting the Raos.

Exactly Stuart . 
and in what world do we think we can run up losses of £35million in 2 years and then contain to £4million in the third year ?

 So yes , the plan was shot to pieces on 23rd December live on Sky.

waggot yet another in a long line of chancers rolling into ewood.Do our bit to help the owners who have been good owners for 9 years ? Fook off you total no mark .

[OldEwoodBlue]

Sheriff Waggott

Tributes to Venkys.

No tribute to Tony Parkes.

 

[lraC]

Not many clubs will be in a great position when the current awful situation comes to an end. I dread to think how our finances are going to look and although we can't blame Venky's for that bit, they have put us right on the very edge, with the complete mess they have created over the 9 years at the club.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by lraC

[tomphil]

12 hours ago, Stuart said:

So £152m in debt with £128m owed to Venkys. An increase of 17% in one year. Champion. 

They really have been fantastic for this club over the last 9 years. By ‘this club’, I of course mean the Old Boys Club.

We should all not only be grateful but should help them by getting the dwindling fanbase to pay for this mess. If they want people to rally round after the lockdown they really need to not market it as somehow supporting the Raos.

They're providing jobs for people is how they see it, misguided generosity when the focus should be entirely on funding Blackburn Rovers football club back to where they found it.

I've often felt this is the case they obviously feel responsible to keep the club going but never seem to learn chucking huge amounts at it every year isn't enough. In their eyes i think they feel they are being charitable and everyone should be grateful, the arse kissers in the middle certainly are when they are filling their pockets serving up bland mediocrity dressed as stability. 

Said it before but managers, directors and players and that guy in the middle plus agent friends have one of the best gigs in football at this club as long as they plod on, do as they are told and don't rock the boat.

The next round of sales which may be somewhat forced by this weird situation will re-align FFP, make the finance people/bank happier, save the owners a few quid. Fill some pockets in between again and of course cover up the huge hole of the over spend on under whelmers.

Meanwhile we have to be happy again with having a side and manager good enough to steer us through all that and stay up.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Watch this space.

They are putting Suhail on furlough and selling the abandoned Neville mansion to pay the weekly staff.

[tomphil]

Will he in turn be putting the ex SEM boys on furlough as well.... or on stand by.

[chaddyrovers]

11 hours ago, TBTF said:

Exactly Stuart . 
and in what world do we think we can run up losses of £35million in 2 years and then contain to £4million in the third year ?

 So yes , the plan was shot to pieces on 23rd December live on Sky.

 

I suspect Dack will be back in time for the next transfer window