[Archived] Rotherham V Rovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Great work from Dack to set up the chance for the triple save situation. We were unlucky there. More good stuff from him for the goal. We may have stayed up with him in the team last season. We've got a good 'un there. We could just with a couple more of the same class.

Once we lost the first header from the corner we were snookered. 

[blueboy3333]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

Good points but I disagree,  the only good thing that came out of last season was we got rid of Coyle, the end....

As I've already said, my expectations for this season are realistic, that's why I'm happy with a point today, happy we're unbeaten in 14 games and happy we sit 3rd in the league.

The majority on here are p1ssed off, because they have expectations way beyond where they should be.

I know where I'd rather be.

 

If I don't get promoted with this squad I'm not much of a coach - T Mowbray

The fans expectations are the same as the managers.

[Tom]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Is Harper loan deal not ended? 

Hart is left back. We didnt need another defender on bench but another striker on bench. 

I was confident before the unbeaten run. Remember ive backed Mowbray to the hilt. Aint going to change now

With all due respect my question was about the basis of that faith in him. I know you've backed him since he was appointed (though not before) just wondered on what grounds you think he'll get us there?

January is a big month for him, his last window saw some massive successes in the market and  a few relatively low risk flops, I'm confident he will do well again in the market if backed.

My concern is his tactical brain, he seems to make the same mistakes repeatedly in terms of approach to games and how to affect a game in play, I think Chapman was his plan B and a good one at that but he desperately needs a new plan B whilst he's unavailable.

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, Gav said:

Good points but I disagree,  the only good thing that came out of last season was we got rid of Coyle, the end....

As I've already said, my expectations for this season are realistic, that's why I'm happy with a point today, happy we're unbeaten in 14 games and happy we sit 3rd in the league.

The majority on here are p1ssed off, because they have expectations way beyond where they should be.

I know where I'd rather be.

 

The crux of the matter is that we have differing expectations, that said I feel like our pre-season billing as favourites along with Wigan was totally justified.

Look at the 2 teams at the top. Wigan finished 9 points below us in the summer and have basically the same squad with a few modest frees added.

Shrewsbury finished 18th last season, and again you look at their recruitment and its mainly cheap players from lower clubs, with the odd loan.

I dont understand how you can justify that being lower than them 2 teams is anything but an underachievement so far.

Last season was poor but 99% of our fans would agree that with Dack, Smallwood, Whittingham, Samuel, Antonsson etc coming in and unwanted rubbish leaving we have a much stronger squad. So why did you think the top 2 was unobtainable?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Wow - anyone would think we got beat.

Nobody knows how bad this virus has been - but it happened at exactly the wrong time of the season - Christmas is a tough period fitness wise without a virus meaning a large number of the squad aren't 100%.

We definitely need strengthening  - with the loss of Chapman key. But let's be fair to Mowbray - he himself has said we need more pace - so he at least recognises the shortfalls.

We went on an unbelievable run of victories - we were always going to stutter at some point.

Also - lets be honest - if Wigan and Shrewsbury continue to pick up wins with the frequency they have so far this season - they will deserve to go up. 

 

[Uddersfelt Blue]

A disappointing result considering we limited Rotherham to very few real chances and looked to be getting a deserved win.

By bringing Ward on TM wanted to counter their giant centre half who had been pushed forward but instead should have strengthened the midfield thus preventing the ball reaching our defence.

Thought Evans, Graham and Bennet had good games, Dack despite scoring, was less effective partly due to the lack of protection from the officials. Smallwood had probably one of his quieter games. 

The Hull game has come at a good time as it will allow time some of the team to get over illness and injuries following a very busy Xmas period.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scotchrover]

Overall, it was a game of half. The first half was awful- both sides looked tired. 

The second half was much better from our own perspective- we finally woke up, until the last 10 minutes or so. Mowbray’s poor decision making cost us big style. 1 goal was never going to be enough, based on our recent inability to keep a clean sheet. For him to take off Danny Graham, and go 5 at the back, with Elliot Ward, was unforgivable. Ultimately, it cost us the game. 

More poor decision making was to follow, after they’d scored. Mowbray had obviously told them try and run down the clock in training, when Ward was brought on. As a result, Raya decided to time waste, when we could have gone on to win the game.

Anyone therefore suggesting 1 upfront again- it doesn’t work.

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

The crux of the matter is that we have differing expectations, that said I feel like our pre-season billing as favourites along with Wigan was totally justified.

Look at the 2 teams at the top. Wigan finished 9 points below us in the summer and have basically the same squad with a few modest frees added.

Shrewsbury finished 18th last season, and again you look at their recruitment and its mainly cheap players from lower clubs, with the odd loan.

I dont understand how you can justify that being lower than them 2 teams is anything but an underachievement so far.

Last season was poor but 99% of our fans would agree that with Dack, Smallwood, Whittingham, Samuel, Antonsson etc coming in and unwanted rubbish leaving we have a much stronger squad. So why did you think the top 2 was unobtainable?

I don’t think he said it was unobtainable, I think he means it’s not a simple as some fans think it is. We’ve been sliding backwards for 7 years. There was never a quick fix. After relegation, If you’d offered the so called “99%” of the fans you allude to whether they’d take 3rd on 1st of jan 18- I’m sure they’d all snap your hand off! 

[martonrover]

9 minutes ago, Gav said:

Good points but I disagree,  the only good thing that came out of last season was we got rid of Coyle, the end....

As I've already said, my expectations for this season are realistic, that's why I'm happy with a point today, happy we're unbeaten in 14 games and happy we sit 3rd in the league.

The majority on here are p1ssed off, because they have expectations way beyond where they should be.

I know where I'd rather be.

 

I was highly critical of Mowbray's appointment but, overall, I think he's doing a decent job.

Despite losing a bit more ground today we are still well in the mix, (I would certainly have settled for this position going into the second half of the season).

However, I do think there is a danger of too many draws costing us dear, just as they did during the run in at the end of last season.

Tony needs to be a bit braver at key moments. I think we all knew what was coming when he replaced a forward with a defender.

We simply aren't strong enough defensively to try and see out a 1-0 win.

Anyway, plenty of games left and, hopefully, a couple of new signings, (pace please), to keep us in touch with the top two.

 

[arbitro]

Mowbray simply has to be questioned today for such a negative change which changed the dynamics of the game and handing the initiative to Rotherham. Warne must have thought it was his birthday as we played a deep back five and a deep four (including Rack) just in front of them with Samuel cast adrift up front. Warne went to three at the back, pushed his big centre half up and his wide players simply bombed on. I reckon Rotherham must have put the ball into our box fifteen times in the last twenty or so minutes. Quite why Mowbray didn't just keep our shape as we were comfortable I don't know. He just tries to be too smart at times and today I think he has cost us two points.

We played reasonably well today with some decent performances. Defensively we were sound, controlled midfield and Dack and Graham were a real handful. There were some tired legs but in my opinion his changes should have been like for like. We have won games unreservedly this season but I'm convinced we would have deservedly won today but for his unnecessary tinkering.

[USABlue]

Injust think this squad does not have the right mentality to get us up.  There never seems to be either a seige or all hands to the pumps mentality.  We really do have a soft under belly and I am sure the word is out on our total inability to defend set pieces.  We have conceded in the SAME manner far too often.  There is just something not right about this team, we are not going up unless we get the right signings and Mowbary stops being so soft he's passing his over cautious mentality into the players heads.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Biz said:

I don’t think he said it was unobtainable, I think he means it’s not a simple as some fans think it is. We’ve been sliding backwards for 7 years. There was never a quick fix. After relegation, If you’d offered the so called “99%” of the fans you allude to whether they’d take 3rd on 1st of jan 18- I’m sure they’d all snap your hand off! 

May not be as simple, but surely if the aim is top 2, and you review it at any point and we are 5 points away from that, then, as it stands, we are below target? Thats my point.

We had a dodgy start, well 2 games, then won 4 on the bounce. That suggested that the relegation hangover was well and truly gone, and there was such a feel good factor that he cant hide behind the previous 7 years. Everyone was united behind Mowbray and the players, massive away followings, same home attendances as last year, there was no underlying stench of resentment and unhappiness.

 He had summer with vast resources at this level, (over a million on transfers and undoubted wages no one at this level can compete with) and the freedom to build around the undoubted ability we already had, some of whom could easily get a move back to the Championship. And they quite clearly arent playing with a chip on their shoulder desperate to leave. So theres no reason why we should be accepting lagging behind the top 2.

To clarify, I dont want it to seem like im demanding for Mowbray to go, or anything like that. And I'm not being dramatic, oh the seasons over etc. I'm just saying, judging the first 25 games, we are behind targets that were communicated by the manager himself throughout the summer, and ever since. Yes, it matters at the end of the season, but we can only judge up until now and thats what im doing.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

May not be as simple, but surely if the aim is top 2, and you review it at any point and we are 5 points away from that, then, as it stands, we are below target? Thats my point.

We had a dodgy start, well 2 games, then won 4 on the bounce. That suggested that the relegation hangover was well and truly gone, and there was such a feel good factor that he cant hide behind the previous 7 years. Everyone was united behind Mowbray and the players, massive away followings, same home attendances as last year, there was no underlying stench of resentment and unhappiness.

 He had summer with vast resources at this level, (over a million on transfers and undoubted wages no one at this level can compete with) and the freedom to build around the undoubted ability we already had, some of whom could easily get a move back to the Championship. And they quite clearly arent playing with a chip on their shoulder desperate to leave. So theres no reason why we should be accepting lagging behind the top 2.

To clarify, I dont want it to seem like im demanding for Mowbray to go, or anything like that. And I'm not being dramatic, oh the seasons over etc. I'm just saying, judging the first 25 games, we are behind targets that were communicated by the manager himself throughout the summer, and ever since. Yes, it matters at the end of the season, but we can only judge up until now and thats what im doing.

Stop being dramatic 

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

May not be as simple, but surely if the aim is top 2, and you review it at any point and we are 5 points away from that, then, as it stands, we are below target? Thats my point.

We had a dodgy start, well 2 games, then won 4 on the bounce. That suggested that the relegation hangover was well and truly gone, and there was such a feel good factor that he cant hide behind the previous 7 years. Everyone was united behind Mowbray and the players, massive away followings, same home attendances as last year, there was no underlying stench of resentment and unhappiness.

 He had summer with vast resources at this level, (over a million on transfers and undoubted wages no one at this level can compete with) and the freedom to build around the undoubted ability we already had, some of whom could easily get a move back to the Championship. And they quite clearly arent playing with a chip on their shoulder desperate to leave. So theres no reason why we should be accepting lagging behind the top 2.

To clarify, I dont want it to seem like im demanding for Mowbray to go, or anything like that. And I'm not being dramatic, oh the seasons over etc. I'm just saying, judging the first 25 games, we are behind targets that were communicated by the manager himself throughout the summer, and ever since. Yes, it matters at the end of the season, but we can only judge up until now and thats what im doing.

Let me try again because the first time obviously didn’t work.

Nobody is arguing that we are behind the necessary and set target. I think you’re mistaking people’s issue of the overtly critical summary, with being “acceptant” or having “low expectations”

I call it understanding reality personally. I don’t think a few understand the time and endeavour it takes to turn a club round Fully. Go back 18 months, the entire club was pretty much broken and all quality has been sold. That’s not a quick fix, and it certainly didn’t help (intact made things much worse) to keep Coyle in situ for so long. There is so much still to do, but let’s not forget how much has been done.

I mean, I’ve read TM being criticised for not addressing the full backs and CB positions in the summer - I find that hilarious because we needed players in just about every position and the money he spent has improved the team- the Dack and Smallwood signings are excellent examples.

The reality is - we do need improve if we want promotion, but let’s not pretend that this was ever going to be the walk in the park many seem to think it is.

[Parsonblue]

25 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

If I don't get promoted with this squad I'm not much of a coach - T Mowbray

The fans expectations are the same as the managers.

And the time to judge him will be in May when the season is over.  There are three promotion places available and at the moment not one of those three is settled - and nor will they be for several months to come.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

And the time to judge him will be in May when the season is over.  There are three promotion places available and at the moment not one of those three is settled - and nor will they be for several months to come.

True, but at the same time if he drops an obvious b*****k like  today by bringing off a centre forward, bringing on a centre half, surrendering the initiative and inviting pressure, then surely criticism is not unwarranted.

I would say going to Wigan and playing for a point when at the time we were miles adrift was similarly inexcusable.

Too many poor decisions like that  could well cost us in the final analysis, especially if it boils down to a point or two.

[robfranlong81]

Bit of realism.

Antonsson tucks that pen away v Noton we win.

Bennett clears that cross on Sat we win.

Yeah we should have defended better today and many will point the finger at Ward/Mowbray but i’d far sooner be in the position we’re in heading into the game against Shrewsbury. 

Everyone can see where we need some reinforcements so hopefully players can be brought in and we continue the unbeaten run. 

[DaveyB]

As others have said it just looked a game too far today. First half was pretty awful, but I thought we came out and dominated the game in the second, until we scored that is. 

I was really pleased to see Mowbray make an attacking change by going 2 up front when he brought Samuel on, and that seemed to have worked and won us the game.

However, his next change probably cost us. Ignoring the fact that there’s never a reason to bring Ward on, bringing an extra cb on just invited them to launch long balls into our box. It was right to take Graham off, as he looked knackered by that point, but I think Tomlinson would have been a better change - press them in midfield and try to stop the long balls at source. Of course there’s no guarantee that would have worked either. Our lack of height is a real weakness in this league where it seems every team is packed with 6ft+ players throughout.

 

Finally, thought Evans had a great game today - easily the best player on the pitch for either side. Dack was below his recent standards, although it did appear that he must have upset the ref or something as he had absolutely no protection, and he did still pop up with a fine goal. 

And I’m surprised to see people saying Bennett had a good game. Unlike Rev I’ve nothing against the guy, but I thought he was completely invisible and ineffective today. He was marginally better when he switched to the left, but not enough to consider his performance a good one imo

[Miker]

That was the worst game of football I've watched so far this season. We did absolutely nothing for almost the entire 90 minutes. Our only game plan was to hoof it up field or get it out into the wide areas to cross the ball in. Neither tactic was working for the first 60 minutes or so. Our one meaningful attack through the middle, passing the ball through the Rotherham defence resulted in a goal. 

Mowbray has to take the blame for that draw as we were lucky to be 1-0 up. Instead of making tactical changes to change our attacking shape earlier in the second half, he made the bizarre decision of bringing Ward on to protect the lead at a time when we were in absolutely no danger from Rotherham. Bringing another defender on just invited the pressure onto us from Rotherham.

Hopefully Mowbray is able to bring in some reinforcements this month, as part of the problem today was lack of options on the bench. 

[arbitro]

Teflon Tony absolves himself by blaming the team for dropping deep. When he brought Ward on pretty much everybody thought we were going to defend deep by playing a back five. And clearly the Rotherham manager thought so too.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/15801604._The_team_invited_the_pressure_late_on____Tony_Mowbray_reacts_to_Rovers__draw_at_Rotherham_United/?ref=mr&lp=5

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, DaveyB said:

As others have said it just looked a game too far today. First half was pretty awful, but I thought we came out and dominated the game in the second, until we scored that is. 

I was really pleased to see Mowbray make an attacking change by going 2 up front when he brought Samuel on, and that seemed to have worked and won us the game.

However, his next change probably cost us. Ignoring the fact that there’s never a reason to bring Ward on, bringing an extra cb on just invited them to launch long balls into our box. It was right to take Graham off, as he looked knackered by that point, but I think Tomlinson would have been a better change - press them in midfield and try to stop the long balls at source. Of course there’s no guarantee that would have worked either. Our lack of height is a real weakness in this league where 

And I’m surprised to see people saying Bennett had a good game. Unlike Rev I’ve nothing against the guy, but I thought he was completely invisible and ineffective today. He was marginally better when he switched to the left, but not enough to consider his performance a good one imo

Errr....... excuse me, I don't know the bloke and I have nothing against him personally. He might well be the nicest chap in the world.

My objection to him is confined to the fact that imo he is a very very poor player and an absolute  liability at a time when we are striving to achieve something decent (for once) this season.

"Invisible and ineffective" describes him 99% of the time for me. I don't mind that he misses an open net at Wigan or drops a defensive clanger against Scunthorpe. That can happen to anyone. The problem is that the miss at Wigan will be one of the only, if not THE only time he gets himself into a similar situation all season.

And all the while Dack is supposed to carry other players going through the motions like that.

[arbitro]

We have conceded nearly a goal a game which is nearly twice as many as Wigan and significantly more than Shrewsbury but the real concern is the manner of how we concede them. Crosses into our penalty area from open and set plays must account for a large number of these. It started with the first goal against us at Southend on day one and today we have again conceded from a corner. Poor from the players, Mowbray and the coaches and worrying that such a weakness hasn't been addressed.

[roversfan99]

37 minutes ago, Biz said:

Let me try again because the first time obviously didn’t work.

Nobody is arguing that we are behind the necessary and set target. I think you’re mistaking people’s issue of the overtly critical summary, with being “acceptant” or having “low expectations”

I call it understanding reality personally. I don’t think a few understand the time and endeavour it takes to turn a club round Fully. Go back 18 months, the entire club was pretty much broken and all quality has been sold. That’s not a quick fix, and it certainly didn’t help (intact made things much worse) to keep Coyle in situ for so long. There is so much still to do, but let’s not forget how much has been done.

I mean, I’ve read TM being criticised for not addressing the full backs and CB positions in the summer - I find that hilarious because we needed players in just about every position and the money he spent has improved the team- the Dack and Smallwood signings are excellent examples.

The reality is - we do need improve if we want promotion, but let’s not pretend that this was ever going to be the walk in the park many seem to think it is.

No I do totally understand that there are reasons as to why we might not be top 2, and i mentioned low expectations directly to a post whereby the point was that some people have higher expectations than others.

I understand your point about it not being a quick fix aswell, but on the flip side you can't bring up the previous x amount of months/years to justify every single thing that has gone wrong.

There are a number of reasons as to why for example that we lost our first 2 games, hangover from relegation, complacency or many new signings all gelling, but then we won 4 on the bounce to suggest that things were coming together. But people can be in danger of putting everything down to the last 7 years, allowing it to become a smokescreen and an excuse, if you do that youll never progress.

I don't think it was going to be a walk in the park. My point is pretty simple, where we are now in the table, if we was here at the end of the season, then it would be a failure. Hence my statement that we are lagging slightly behind target. 

That doesn't mean I dont understand the reasons why or want drastic changes.

As someone quoted on the previous page, Mowbray implied he would be a poor manager if he couldnt get this squad promoted. And (barring the lottery of the play offs) we are behind where we aim to finish (top 2). 

[DaveyB]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Errr....... excuse me, I don't know the bloke and I have nothing against him personally. He might well be the nicest chap in the world.

My objection to him is confined to the fact that imo he is a very very poor player and an absolute  liability at a time when we are striving to achieve something decent (for once) this season.

"Invisible and ineffective" describes him 99% of the time for me. I don't mind that he misses an open net at Wigan or drops a defensive clanger against Scunthorpe. That can happen to anyone. The problem is that the miss at Wigan will be one of the only, if not THE only time he gets himself into a similar situation all season.

And all the while Dack is supposed to carry other players going through the motions like that.

Apologies - it was meant as a tongue in cheek comment. 

 

I both agree and disagree with you. I too think he’s a poor player, and he infuriates me with his refusal to run in behind and his inability to go past a man.

However, I can’t agree that he’s invisible. The one thing that you absolutely cannot level at him is that doesn’t work hard - and he certainly makes the most of his limited ability imo - and I think he must be a nightmare to play against as he continually closes down and puts you under pressure when you’re on the ball

[tomphil]

I like TM and think he's a good fit for the club at the min in quite a few ways but he doesn't half lack minerals at times in terms of tactics and some of his rotation is ridiculous.

Subs very questionable again but when haven't they been in the last 7 years ?