[Archived] Rotherham V Rovers

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Wow - anyone would think we got beat.

Sigh.

Anyone would think we continue to give away sloppy goals in exactly the same manner time and time gain. Wow indeed.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

And the time to judge him will be in May when the season is over.  There are three promotion places available and at the moment not one of those three is settled - and nor will they be for several months to come.

Thanks Captain Obvious, but the discussion, as you well know, was to do with expectation not when the trophies were handed out.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, DaveyB said:

Apologies - it was meant as a tongue in cheek comment. 

 

I both agree and disagree with you. I too think he’s a poor player, and he infuriates me with his refusal to run in behind and his inability to go past a man.

However, I can’t agree that he’s invisible. The one thing that you absolutely cannot level at him is that doesn’t work hard - and he certainly makes the most of his limited ability imo - and I think he must be a nightmare to play against as he continually closes down and puts you under pressure when you’re on the ball

No offence taken whatsoever. You were far more constructive than the usual response accusing me of not liking him because he'd run off with the wife etc. Lol.

I see Bennett completely differently. I think he has a bit of ability but is so poor because he simply can't be bothered getting into dangerous positions/trying to make anything happen/influence the game.

Either way it's only one part of the jigsaw. Everyone on the pitch apart from Dack will have to up their game and TM will have to be much braver if we're going to achieve our aim of automatic promotion imo.

[chaddyrovers]

39 minutes ago, arbitro said:

We have conceded nearly a goal a game which is nearly twice as many as Wigan and significantly more than Shrewsbury but the real concern is the manner of how we concede them. Crosses into our penalty area from open and set plays must account for a large number of these. It started with the first goal against us at Southend on day one and today we have again conceded from a corner. Poor from the players, Mowbray and the coaches and worrying that such a weakness hasn't been addressed.

we have the 4th best defensively record in the league and 2nd best attacking record in the league. 

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

Mowbray simply has to be questioned today for such a negative change which changed the dynamics of the game and handing the initiative to Rotherham. Warne must have thought it was his birthday as we played a deep back five and a deep four (including Rack) just in front of them with Samuel cast adrift up front. Warne went to three at the back, pushed his big centre half up and his wide players simply bombed on. I reckon Rotherham must have put the ball into our box fifteen times in the last twenty or so minutes. Quite why Mowbray didn't just keep our shape as we were comfortable I don't know. He just tries to be too smart at times and today I think he has cost us two points.

We played reasonably well today with some decent performances. Defensively we were sound, controlled midfield and Dack and Graham were a real handful. There were some tired legs but in my opinion his changes should have been like for like. We have won games unreservedly this season but I'm convinced we would have deservedly won today but for his unnecessary tinkering.

Ward came on to match the height of their centre back they push forward in a striker as we stop them every other way. I can understand the tactic and not against it but I don't like Ward and that's why I against it. I would either brought on Butterworth to replace and keep 4-4-2 or brought on Tomlinson for Graham and go 4-5-1. 

we might have conceded even if we conceded with Tomlinson on then people would have been saying Ward should have come on. 

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

And the time to judge him will be in May when the season is over.  There are three promotion places available and at the moment not one of those three is settled - and nor will they be for several months to come.

been saying this for ages. 

We still have 21 games to go. plenty of time to catch the top 2 teams. 

Shrewsbury game is very important. 

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Thanks Captain Obvious, but the discussion, as you well know, was to do with expectation not when the trophies were handed out.

but ParsonBlue is right, the season didn't end today, so stop with the insults to a very good member of the site and show some respect. 

Time to judge Mowbray is at the end of the season. We might beat Shrewsbury and Wigan at home and still end 3rd or we might win the league or 2nd. 

You are far too negative and cant wait to criticise Mowbray and the players 

[JBiz]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No I do totally understand that there are reasons as to why we might not be top 2, and i mentioned low expectations directly to a post whereby the point was that some people have higher expectations than others.

I understand your point about it not being a quick fix aswell, but on the flip side you can't bring up the previous x amount of months/years to justify every single thing that has gone wrong.

There are a number of reasons as to why for example that we lost our first 2 games, hangover from relegation, complacency or many new signings all gelling, but then we won 4 on the bounce to suggest that things were coming together. But people can be in danger of putting everything down to the last 7 years, allowing it to become a smokescreen and an excuse, if you do that youll never progress.

I don't think it was going to be a walk in the park. My point is pretty simple, where we are now in the table, if we was here at the end of the season, then it would be a failure. Hence my statement that we are lagging slightly behind target. 

That doesn't mean I dont understand the reasons why or want drastic changes.

As someone quoted on the previous page, Mowbray implied he would be a poor manager if he couldnt get this squad promoted. And (barring the lottery of the play offs) we are behind where we aim to finish (top 2). 

It’s got nothing to do with justifying errors or excusing mistakes, holding back progress or creating a smokescreen for issues. I’m not really arguing with you on the errors either, I agree with most of what you’ve said but disagree on certain semantics.The overall aspect of “3rd is a failure come May” but we’ve nearly 35 hours of football still to play. 3rd in January is a strong start, could be better but good enough for me. 3rd in May could also be promotion by the way, whilst I’m sure we agree we’d rather not go through that.

IMHO, the opening defeats came as a result of the overhaul of first XI and a few who thought they’d find it a stroll. Look at today- was an absolute battle, their centrehalves really made things difficult but I feel we are slowly but surely improving our dealings with it - pressing higher than we did early season to force mistakes, no coincidence Graham’s involvement and improvement has helped in that respect. Still much work to do on set pieces, I wouldn’t be surprised to see us look for a big ugly central defender, we don’t have a single one of that “type”.

Im sure some of the fans had the same idea about the league being a stroll, today again show that a simple lapse in organisation is punished.

Some of the other opinions to you, from both sides touch on answer to the overall question of  “is TM the perfect man to turn our club completely around and bring us back up firing on all cylinders”?

The answer to that question, when taking the ownership and financial aspect, looking at his time so far; a resounding “no”!

The problem though, is there anyone who could? Genuinely? Who in the world is qualified to turn a club round, fix all the issues on the playing side whilst fighting issues in other aspects, getting promoted twice on a low budget amidst a lack of consistency (to put it mildly) from the owners?

I know we’ve better wages, finances and facilities than the other teams at this level - but the same can be said for Villa, Sunderland et al in the level above. It doesn’t mean anything if you’re fraught with problems throughout the club, just look at those two as an example - even someone as experienced and probably extremely well connected- Steve Bruce is gradually but slowly turning them around.

I’m happy to see certain things seem to be improving though, but we have a long way to go. I expect even TM will have learnt something from bringing Ward on today - whilst this decision and his comments are perplexing, it’s a bit churlish to criticise that and ignore the many many positives his overall presence has brought.

His decision to pair Dack with Graham worked for us today because the blend of work rate and creativity eventually gave us a goal and a platform for the potential of three points. I haven’t seen anyone praise that, or the decision to recall Evans to the team, after a stinker on Boxing Day, who had a much better game for most of it, really getting stuck in. These are small things I understand, but lots of little things make the correct recipe.

Another positive I think is worth mentioning, “Lethal Dizzle” as Khod refers to him, Derek Williams- seems to be improving in a few respects. Maybe it’s the confidence at this level but I feel he looks a lot less wooden, a better passer and a far better athlete than last season. Worked hard again today.

Another good window would be a massive step in the right direction, Chapman permanent, keep the better players, add more quality in a few potential areas. Signs are good for me, especially considering we’ve become a difficult team to beat again, which is something I’m sure we’ve all craved.

On today’s evidence, Another step up is definitely necessary though. Apologies for the essay, that’s 6/6 trains done! 

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

With all due respect my question was about the basis of that faith in him. I know you've backed him since he was appointed (though not before) just wondered on what grounds you think he'll get us there?

January is a big month for him, his last window saw some massive successes in the market and  a few relatively low risk flops, I'm confident he will do well again in the market if backed.

My concern is his tactical brain, he seems to make the same mistakes repeatedly in terms of approach to games and how to affect a game in play, I think Chapman was his plan B and a good one at that but he desperately needs a new plan B whilst he's unavailable.

The same reasons I had before we went on the unbeaten run when you did the Mowbray poll thread. I seen nothing to change my mind and only support my view 

Mowbray has signed some good players and got the team playing in the right formation and playing well. 

yes we need 3 or 4 signings this month. 

Today he wanted to bring on a tall defender to match their Rotherham centre half who gone upfront for head size, which you not agree a sensible move in context? Now if we had won today people would be praising him for a good tactical decision there. 

[Crimpshrine]

I thought we were poor today. Dack did well for the goal and I thought Williams had a good game but overall something was really lacking.

It's funny how some players seem to improve as they work their way up the leagues. Players like Chris Price and Mark Atkins who played for years in the lower leagues but somehow managed to adjust and become good top level players. People like Bret Ormerod and a few Swansea players who managed to go from fourth to top tier with the same team and adjust at each stage.

We seem to have a number of players who we know can perform at much higher levels - Evans, Graham, Conway, Mulgrew - who have now naturalised as bog standard league 1 players. Not sure any of them are really that motivated. 

We need more leadership from the experienced players but there was none at all today.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

but ParsonBlue is right, the season didn't end today, so stop with the insults to a very good member of the site and show some respect. 

 Did it not end today? Thanks for that, I didn't know. Parson, like you, is incapable of engaging in debate beyond platitudes like 'the season ends in May'. It's tedious and indicative of people who only want to shut down debate.

And I'll choose who I show 'respect' to, not you. Understand?

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

The same reasons I had before we went on the unbeaten run when you did the Mowbray poll thread. I seen nothing to change my mind and only support my view 

Mowbray has signed some good players and got the team playing in the right formation and playing well. 

yes we need 3 or 4 signings this month. 

Today he wanted to bring on a tall defender to match their Rotherham centre half who gone upfront for head size, which you not agree a sensible move in context? Now if we had won today people would be praising him for a good tactical decision there. 

What about trying to exploit the space they left when their centre half went forward ?  Weak mentality again. Ward isn't the sort of player to make a difference against a rough and ready opponent.

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray has signed some good players and got the team playing in the right formation and playing well. 

And he's signed some garbage and manages a team that continues to make the same mistakes. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

The same reasons I had before we went on the unbeaten run when you did the Mowbray poll thread. I seen nothing to change my mind and only support my view 

Mowbray has signed some good players and got the team playing in the right formation and playing well. 

yes we need 3 or 4 signings this month. 

Today he wanted to bring on a tall defender to match their Rotherham centre half who gone upfront for head size, which you not agree a sensible move in context? Now if we had won today people would be praising him for a good tactical decision there. 

If we're playing so well why do you think we need another 3 or 4 signings ?

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

And he's signed some garbage and manages a team that continues to make the same mistakes. 

Two wrongs don’t make a right, don’t you know?  

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we're playing so well why do you think we need another 3 or 4 signings ?

Several years of decline, neglect, no consistency of plan and misfiring academy?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

Two wrongs don’t make a right, don’t you know?  

Just adding the Ying to the Yang...

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we're playing so well why do you think we need another 3 or 4 signings ?

someone is needed to replace Chapman who is injured, Players not performing well enough for a squad place and competition for places. 

I said which positions I wanted to strengthen. Do you agree or not? 

we don't know how long Antonnson is out for. 

[Parsonblue]

34 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Thanks Captain Obvious, but the discussion, as you well know, was to do with expectation not when the trophies were handed out.

You might believe that you are entitled to win every game and have such expectations but most supporters know football doesn't work like that.  It can turn at any moment for no reason - look at how we got up under Kenny when we were romping away at the top and then suddenly couldn't win a point and staggered into the play-offs on the final day of the season.  If fifty-odd years of following the Rovers has taught me one thing it's the unpredictable nature of football.  There have been seasons I thought we would enjoy success and failed and others when I had no expectations of anything and we had a great season.  It's the unpredictable nature of following a club like the Rovers which makes it special for me.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I deffo don't respect you at all. Feel you nasty, horrible and damn right rude to certain members. understand?

why debate someone like you? its pointless

could have done but if we gone your way and conceded you would have said should have brought on a defender

just like Big Sam and Hughes did, even Sir Alex Ferguson signed some garbage players. 

I don't believe in us trying to park the bus, how many times have we tried that and failed ? I rather try to get the winner and concede than try and shut up shop and concede.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

someone is needed to replace Chapman who is injured, Players not performing well enough for a squad place and competition for places. 

I said which positions I wanted to strengthen. Do you agree or not? 

we don't know how long Antonnson is out for. 

We need a winger with a goal threat and a partner for Smallwood who can play a bit as well.

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We need a winger with a goal threat and a partner for Smallwood who can play a bit as well.

Agree about the winger.  I also think we need a centre-back and centre-forward who are good in the air.  We look poor on in the air both in defence and up front at the moment and it's costing us vital points.

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, Parsonblue said:

You might believe that you are entitled to win every game and have such expectations but most supporters know football doesn't work like that

Patronising drivel... and at no point have I said I felt 'entitled' to win every game. The expectation is to go up, from the manager, from the board, from the owners, from the players. The expectation comes from them. Maybe you should pass on your thoughts on 'entitlement' to Tony next time you see him.

[JHRover]

I thought we were appalling today, particularly disappointing considering the performance vs Scunthorpe which I felt was decent. 

Dacks goal and the 6 yard box melee aside we created nothing worth mentioning. Not what I expect from a team chasing promotion.

We surrendered 2 points today in the dying minutes because we deserved to. Nothing to do with fortune or illness or squad depth. The minute we took the lead we did exactly what we have done every game we've taken the lead in this season - dropped back - 10 -15 yards deeper - invited weak opposition on - time after time - come back for more - can't get hold of the ball and get any composure - we've got away with it numerous times through facing dreadful opposition or getting lucky but today we didn't. 

All in all - we didn't create anywhere near enough to deserve to win the game - got a goal thanks to individual quality shining through - and then yet again poor game management has cost us where Wigan and Shrewsbury don't falter.

Not good enough and it needs to improve.

Take a lead in a game and its like a switch goes. Immediately sit deep and allow the opposition control of the game. Attitude and coaching not fitness or illness.

Unbeaten runs immaterial at this juncture if 3 draws in 4 games is the return,

Bowyer was regularly slated on here for his famous 12 game unbeaten run in 2014 which contained too many draws. 

I'm tiring already of talk about squad strengthening and needing new signings. Why do we need to spend yet more money to overcome Shrewbury Town?

This manager has had a budget and squad the envy of all in this division. Not once have we occupied a top 2 position despite having everything his way. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Agree about the winger.  I also think we need a centre-back and centre-forward who are good in the air.  We look poor on in the air both in defence and up front at the moment and it's costing us vital points.

We've signed three centre forwards since the Summer (  Samuel, Antonnson, Nuttall ) , I can't see the Chokers stumping up for another one. Same goes for centre half with us having got Downing.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, JHRover said:

This manager has had a budget and squad the envy of all in this division. Not once have we occupied a top 2 position despite having everything his way. 

Imagine if the Shrews had been able to afford to spend £1.3m on a striker and Dack. They'd have won the League by now! Mowbray has been very very fortunate to get the backing he has.

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We need a winger with a goal threat and a partner for Smallwood who can play a bit as well.

Ive suggested Nolan..played for Shrewsbury.