[Archived] Rotherham V Rovers

[Parsonblue]

8 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Patronising drivel... and at no point have I said I felt 'entitled' to win every game. The expectation is to go up, from the manager, from the board, from the owners, from the players. The expectation comes from them. Maybe you should pass on your thoughts on 'entitlement' to Tony next time you see him.

And is the season over and your expectations not met?  You sound like you feel naturally entitled to finish above the likes of Shrewsbury which is rather patronising.  It's January.  We are at the half-way stage - there is still everything to play for over the second half of the season.  

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

And is the season over and your expectations not met?  You sound like you feel naturally entitled to finish above the likes of Shrewsbury which is rather patronising.  It's January.  We are at the half-way stage - there is still everything to play for over the second half of the season.  

Again, it was Mowbray who said he expected to go up. Is he patronising every other team in the League?

[Parsonblue]

28 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Again, it was Mowbray who said he expected to go up. Is he patronising every other team in the League?

And I have every hope that we will go up - in May not January.

[roversfan99]

48 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

And is the season over and your expectations not met?  You sound like you feel naturally entitled to finish above the likes of Shrewsbury which is rather patronising.  It's January.  We are at the half-way stage - there is still everything to play for over the second half of the season.  

As much as you are right about the season not ending now, weve only up until now to judge. If the target is top 2 and we are currently outside of the top 2, surely you agree that at the moment (and leaving out the line about it not finishing now because im well aware but its not the point thats being debated) we are slightly behind target? As a yes or no answer.

And its not about being entitled, Shrewsbury finished 18th last season, have so much less in the way of resources, could only dream of some of the players we have and the money they cost. Thats why everyone expected us to be ahead of them. If we are 5 points behind them at this stage, it is not patronising to say we shouldnt be in that position. They deserve to be ahead of us but we had every right to expect to be above them, and again im aware its only January but thats all weve got to judge on.

Im.opening myself up to ridicule but if Man City were behind Bournemouth in the table people wouldnt call their fans patronising if they were annoyed. Im well aware we are not like Man City but my point is its not patronising to consider lagging behind teams with lesser expectations and resources to be underachievement.

[perthblue02]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

to match their Rotherham centre half who gone upfront for head size,

Perhaps we should try and get Hanley back on loan for situations like that , then we could match anybody for head size in this league then  

[arbitro]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

we have the 4th best defensively record in the league and 2nd best attacking record in the league. 

Ward came on to match the height of their centre back they push forward in a striker as we stop them every other way. I can understand the tactic and not against it but I don't like Ward and that's why I against it. I would either brought on Butterworth to replace and keep 4-4-2 or brought on Tomlinson for Graham and go 4-5-1. 

we might have conceded even if we conceded with Tomlinson on then people would have been saying Ward should have come on. 

been saying this for ages. 

We still have 21 games to go. plenty of time to catch the top 2 teams. 

Shrewsbury game is very important. 

If you read my post properly I specifically mentioned the top two to explain why we are adrift of them. I also criticised the manner in which we have conceded quite a few but you ignored that point.

Mowbray reacted in the way he knows best - negatively. If you were at the game you would know we were on top and in control. The one change he made disrupted all that and handed Rotherham the initiative.

[AllRoverAsia]

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What about trying to exploit the space they left when their centre half went forward ?  Weak mentality again. Ward isn't the sort of player to make a difference against a rough and ready opponent.

Someone at last who understands football.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

If you read my post properly I specifically mentioned the top two to explain why we are adrift of them. I also criticised the manner in which we have conceded quite a few but you ignored that point.

Mowbray reacted in the way he knows best - negatively. If you were at the game you would know we were on top and in control. The one change he made disrupted all that and handed Rotherham the initiative.

I was very unhappy on Saturday with the goals we conceded. As I posted. 

Mowbray acted the way most managers. Big Sam would have done what Mowbray did. 

Was Graham shattered? Cos he looked it on tv for ages. Plus he was playing with an injury most likely. So Can I please asked who would brought on for Graham?

[dingles staying down 4ever]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I was very unhappy on Saturday with the goals we conceded. As I posted. 

Mowbray acted the way most managers. Big Sam would have done what Mowbray did. 

Was Graham shattered? Cos he looked it on tv for ages. Plus he was playing with an injury most likely. So Can I please asked who would brought on for Graham?

Mowbray tried to anticipate Rotherham shoving their big centre half up front by putting his biggest centre half onto the field. Yet again his negativity has cost us points. Going 5 at the back just invited pressure onto us. I understand that Graham is carrying an injury but surely an extra midfielder for the last few minutes on to run around, break play up and chase everything down run into the corners. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Mowbray tried to anticipate Rotherham shoving their big centre half up front by putting his biggest centre half onto the field. Yet again his negativity has cost us points. Going 5 at the back just invited pressure onto us. I understand that Graham is carrying an injury but surely an extra midfielder for the last few minutes on to run around, break play up and chase everything down run into the corners. 

If he had brought an extra midfielder and conceded.the same people would have been saying the same thing  but Ward should have come on instead 

[Cherry Blue]

What ever decision or outcome the fact remains Rotherham were stronger team. Listening to radio Sheffield they would have taken a point at 3pm but felt 2 points lost at 440pm. 

The next game's always important in football so v Shrewsbury we'll need all 3 points to put a disappointing festive period behind us. I'm not concerned with the cup (venkys £) just want to get out of league 1. 

One disappoint for me was being told to F Off by a Rotherham security car park chap after I asked for best place to park. Poor hospitality coming from an official.

[JHRover]

I'm not sure we needed to change anything. Up until the 70 minute mark Rotherham had offered little to no threat. Only one decent Raya save from distance in the 1st half. Not sure why we couldn't have continued playing as we had and why we have to suddenly sit back. It wasn't particularly impressive stuff but we had plenty of possession in safe areas on the half way line, were probably the better of the two sides and were asking some questions of Rotherham. 

Mowbray seems to be holding the players responsible for this sudden shift but it is almost certainly a result of coaching and management. It happens too often for it not to be. 

Our problems began as soon as we decided to sit deep and allow Rotherham bucket loads of time and possession. Any side given such time and encouragement with the ball whereby they had the freedom of their home pitch for 20 minutes without interruption will eventually create chances and grow in confidence. 

I'd hazard a guess that they got more deliveries into our box in the last 20 minutes than in the 70 before them. Because we allowed them the time and space to do it.

Its a frequent occurrance - I'm sure everyone can see it as its been happening since Mowbray arrived and we scraped past Derby and Wigan last season. its as though we're playing with 9 or 10 men at times - no matter who we are playing - its no wonder so many of our victories have been by such slender margins as the moment we get our noses in front our entire approach seems to radically shift and we can go from being comfortable and the better side in games to a shambles hanging on for dear life.

 

[arbitro]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not sure we needed to change anything. Up until the 70 minute mark Rotherham had offered little to no threat. Only one decent Raya save from distance in the 1st half. Not sure why we couldn't have continued playing as we had and why we have to suddenly sit back. It wasn't particularly impressive stuff but we had plenty of possession in safe areas on the half way line, were probably the better of the two sides and were asking some questions of Rotherham. 

Mowbray seems to be holding the players responsible for this sudden shift but it is almost certainly a result of coaching and management. It happens too often for it not to be. 

Our problems began as soon as we decided to sit deep and allow Rotherham bucket loads of time and possession. Any side given such time and encouragement with the ball whereby they had the freedom of their home pitch for 20 minutes without interruption will eventually create chances and grow in confidence. 

I'd hazard a guess that they got more deliveries into our box in the last 20 minutes than in the 70 before them. Because we allowed them the time and space to do it.

Its a frequent occurrance - I'm sure everyone can see it as its been happening since Mowbray arrived and we scraped past Derby and Wigan last season. its as though we're playing with 9 or 10 men at times - no matter who we are playing - its no wonder so many of our victories have been by such slender margins as the moment we get our noses in front our entire approach seems to radically shift and we can go from being comfortable and the better side in games to a shambles hanging on for dear life.

 

And in Mowbrays tactical masterclass one of his four midfielders was Bradley Dack who was expected to track back, block and get challenges in. Some strange stuff from Mowbray yesterday but what is more worrying to me is the blame he is putting on the players. At no time in the last twenty minutes did I see him motion to the players to get higher up the pitch. Warne was prepared to lose another goal to get something out of the game with the changes he made. Mowbray wasn't prepared to try and get a second goal when we were clearly on top. He cost us yesterday not just in my opinion but lots of other fans who were there.

[Parsonblue]

10 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What about trying to exploit the space they left when their centre half went forward ?  Weak mentality again. Ward isn't the sort of player to make a difference against a rough and ready opponent.

They didn't leave any space Tyrone.  They brought on another defender to fill the gap at the back when they pushed the centre-half forward.  They took off a smaller player and then started to launch it long.  Our two centre-backs were struggling but I agree, Ward was never going to improve things.  The squad is looking a bit thin at the moment when we are having to put Butterworth - who is by no means a regular started for the Under-23's - on the bench.  I think the Christmas period has shown that the squad isn't as strong as we perhaps thought it was.  Illness and injuries have highlighted the need for a bit more quality in depth. 

[Tom]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

If he had brought an extra midfielder and conceded.the same people would have been saying the same thing  but Ward should have come on instead 

Funny thing is nobody would be complaining if Mowbray did his job well and adapted in play to see the game out, he changed it and drew pressure and we conceded.

I called it at the time of the sub so did many others 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Ive suggested Nolan..played for Shrewsbury.

 

I was also baffled by his remarks. When you bring on an extra centre half what message do you think you're sending the team ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

They didn't leave any space Tyrone.  They brought on another defender to fill the gap at the back when they pushed the centre-half forward.  They took off a smaller player and then started to launch it long.  Our two centre-backs were struggling but I agree, Ward was never going to improve things.  The squad is looking a bit thin at the moment when we are having to put Butterworth - who is by no means a regular started for the Under-23's - on the bench.  I think the Christmas period has shown that the squad isn't as strong as we perhaps thought it was.  Illness and injuries have highlighted the need for a bit more quality in depth. 

Fair enough Parson but I still think trying to park the bus with our defence is asking for trouble.

[arbitro]

15 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

They didn't leave any space Tyrone.  They brought on another defender to fill the gap at the back when they pushed the centre-half forward.  They took off a smaller player and then started to launch it long.  Our two centre-backs were struggling but I agree, Ward was never going to improve things.  The squad is looking a bit thin at the moment when we are having to put Butterworth - who is by no means a regular started for the Under-23's - on the bench.  I think the Christmas period has shown that the squad isn't as strong as we perhaps thought it was.  Illness and injuries have highlighted the need for a bit more quality in depth. 

They went to three at the back and wing backs. Mowbray panicked yesterday and that doesn't auger well for the forthcoming games when the pressure will intensify. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

True, but at the same time if he drops an obvious b*****k like  today by bringing off a centre forward, bringing on a centre half, surrendering the initiative and inviting pressure, then surely criticism is not unwarranted.

I would say going to Wigan and playing for a point when at the time we were miles adrift was similarly inexcusable.

Too many poor decisions like that  could well cost us in the final analysis, especially if it boils down to a point or two.

Bringing on a centre back for a centre forward near the end of a game where you have a tight lead is standard. Mourinho often does it. If he left Graham on and they scored,people would be saying he should have brought on a defender with such little time remaining. 

You would say going to Wigan and playing for a point is inexcusable? You obviously haven't a clue about football. A-you don't know we did play for a point B-we went down to 10 men C-we were about 1/4 of the way into the season D-bar drawing a couple of games we should have won over Xmas,we could have passed Wigan. E- we could still very easily catch them.

You basically nullify your entire argument saying his decisions could cost us if it comes down to a point or two. I would class a point away to Wigan a good one. If we went there and lost and then missed out by a point,you would be saying we should have played for a draw at Wigan. I could go on,but won't bother. 

[JHRover]

11 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

They didn't leave any space Tyrone.  They brought on another defender to fill the gap at the back when they pushed the centre-half forward.  They took off a smaller player and then started to launch it long.  Our two centre-backs were struggling but I agree, Ward was never going to improve things.  The squad is looking a bit thin at the moment when we are having to put Butterworth - who is by no means a regular started for the Under-23's - on the bench.  I think the Christmas period has shown that the squad isn't as strong as we perhaps thought it was.  Illness and injuries have highlighted the need for a bit more quality in depth. 

The concerning thing is that we weren't actually missing much yesterday in terms of numbers from the squad.

Aside from Antonsson and long term absentees Lenihan and Chapman there was a full squad to pick from. I'm ignoring Harper and Hart from that as I think (hope) that Harper has been jettisoned from the squad and Hart isn't good enough for the first team, rather than either being unavailable for selection.

It seems that several of the players have been under the weather which needs overcoming in the next week or so.

All in all I think our shortage of personnel was predictable - in the wide areas and up front we were always going to be reaching a bare bones stage the minute we picked up a couple of injuries. We've actually been fortunate up front that Nuttall has exceeded expectations having gone from being on trial with the U23s in the summer to a fully fledged member of the 1st team by November. Had he not made the grade quickly we'd be even more short.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Gladwin seems to have vanished off the face of the earth. Wether he would have had a greater impact, I don't know.

[JBiz]

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

I'm tiring already of talk about squad strengthening and needing new signings. Why do we need to spend yet more money to overcome Shrewbury Town?

This manager has had a budget and squad the envy of all in this division. Not once have we occupied a top 2 position despite having everything his way. 

 

Agree with most, but we largely stopped the home team (in decent form may I add) from creating anything until they changed tactics. We defended better in open play than the weekend against a decent opposition.

To me, it comes across as strange that you are oblivious or simply don’t mention the small improvements or “basics” or is it because they are simply expected?

Some of these opponents might lack individual talent and they might lack pace. One thing they never seem to lack is resolve, effort and organisation and the one that matters above all is cohesion, and from where I stood today, we looked 1000x more a “team” than earlier in the season. That’s despite the performance lacking.

How many other teams have been completely dismantled and rebuilt on the cheap for years? We all know lower league clubs lose key players, but I’m talking a casual attitude to rebuilding and giving thousands of potential wages away in pay offs? The lack of consistency in our transfer business for so many years cannot be fixed by 1 window of holding quality and adding more.

This idea that £ = win is a fallacy also, especially the ridiculous money that’s banded around. Ofcourse it’s a bonus to TM, but do you not think it’ll take a few more quid to fix some of the problems in this squad? Either money or time to develop. We don’t have time remember...

I agree that I felt the extra defender cost us today - but as PB points out, that’s a reaction to the Rotherham manager changing his tactics to get something out of the game. For the 1 mistake, there are countless examples of improvement. It seem to me a few people just plainly and blankly refuse to accept that.

This job is no cakewalk. It really does seem to me that plenty think it is

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Gladwin seems to have vanished off the face of the earth. Wether he would have had a greater impact, I don't know.

He had an operation recently. Hopefully he gets going when he returns 

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The concerning thing is that we weren't actually missing much yesterday in terms of numbers from the squad.

Aside from Antonsson and long term absentees Lenihan and Chapman there was a full squad to pick from. I'm ignoring Harper and Hart from that as I think (hope) that Harper has been jettisoned from the squad and Hart isn't good enough for the first team, rather than either being unavailable for selection.

It seems that several of the players have been under the weather which needs overcoming in the next week or so.

All in all I think our shortage of personnel was predictable - in the wide areas and up front we were always going to be reaching a bare bones stage the minute we picked up a couple of injuries. We've actually been fortunate up front that Nuttall has exceeded expectations having gone from being on trial with the U23s in the summer to a fully fledged member of the 1st team by November. Had he not made the grade quickly we'd be even more short.

We were away to a good side and they managed to scrape a draw in the last minute. No need for panic stations. 

[G Somerset Rover]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He had an operation recently. Hopefully he gets going when he returns 

Gladwin? Going away from our club with a little luck!