[Archived] A new era?

[Norbert Rassragr]

Ok Leonard, I'll change it to dead with a plastic bag on his head and an orange in his mouth like that Tory MP in the 90's :D. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

9 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Ok Leonard, I'll change it to dead with a plastic bag on his head and an orange in his mouth like that Tory MP in the 90's :D. 

Stephen Milligan!

[Rover_Shaun]

6 hours ago, ChickenBolty said:

Wow the negativity within this forum is becoming beyond a joke. I bet you're a barrel of laughs in the pub on a weekend. 

We've been in a good league position and heading in a positive direction, within the context of the league we are in, for 3 days in the last 7 years. Forgive us for not putting up the fkn bunting.

[Exiled in Toronto]

For the first time in 7 years the football on the field is the only thing going on, and very good football it is too. Winning is winning, at any level.

I don’t buy the argument we’d still be in the Prem rolling in money. 17 other clubs have been relegated since Venkys rocked up, there’s nothing to say we wouldn’t have been one of them. It only took Ince 17 games to take us from top 6 to bottom 3.

Last few years I was barely interested and often forgot to check the scores. This year I’m glued to the app watching every game and counting the days to the next one. 

Tony “Stick or Twist” Mowbray could be having a Souness-like career renaissance at the Ewood dream factory.

[Butty]

22 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

For the first time in 7 years the football on the field is the only thing going on, and very good football it is too. Winning is winning, at any level.

I don’t buy the argument we’d still be in the Prem rolling in money. 17 other clubs have been relegated since Venkys rocked up, there’s nothing to say we wouldn’t have been one of them. It only took Ince 17 games to take us from top 6 to bottom 3.

Last few years I was barely interested and often forgot to check the scores. This year I’m glued to the app watching every game and counting the days to the next one. 

Tony “Stick or Twist” Mowbray could be having a Souness-like career renaissance at the Ewood dream factory.

We were an established prem club, I'm not saying we wouldn't have gone down at all but we could have survived for a couple more years without the Chicken farmers taking over, which would have meant more money, especially if we bounced straight back up a la dingles. Suppose that's all ifs buts and maybes though.

[Mike E]

If they'd just given Sam £5m per window... *sigh*

[Leonard Venkhater]

8 hours ago, Mike E said:

If they'd just given Sam £5m per window... *sigh*

Haha..Kipling could have based a whole poem around decision making over the last 8 years...

[davulsukur]

20 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think the owners were stupid more than bad, but the next season or two will really be defining of their reign. No more room for excuses and playing dumb. 

They go hand in hand. They didn’t learn from any bad decisions they made, even the last managerial appointment before TM was heavily tainted with suspect links of the past. C*yle, an utter clueless manager with nothing but failure everywhere (bar one) on his cv came in from seemingly no where when it looked certain Warnock was going to be appointed.

Another stupid mistake? Or another shifty agent deal? Whatever it was, it made them very bad owners indeed.

[Garage Flower]

Let’s see if we get promoted first then let’s see what happens in the summer and following season. We’ll know more then. 

[perthblue02]

9 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Haha..Kipling could have based a whole poem around decision making over the last 8 years...

If you can scheme and not make scams your master;   
If you can think and not make club success your aim;   
If you can meet with Anderson and Huber
And treat those two impostors just the same;   
If you can bear to hear the mis-truth you’ve spoken
Scripted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your cash to, broken,
And stoop and ship ’em out when the percentage rules:

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

If you can scheme and not make scams your master;   
If you can think and not make club success your aim;   
If you can meet with Anderson and Huber
And treat those two impostors just the same;   
If you can bear to hear the mis-truth you’ve spoken
Scripted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your cash to, broken,
And stoop and ship ’em out when the percentage rules:

If you can keep slap head when all about you   

    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,  

[tomphil]

You'll be a Venky my son 

[47er]

A new era can only begin once Venkys leave. We will never prosper with them. They will always let us down in the end.

[Norbert Rassragr]

They have an empire of dirt for all of us 47er.

[Leonard Venkhater]

20 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

They have an empire of dirt for all of us 47er.

Everyone I know goes away in the end....Cairney, Gestede..........(Dack, Mulgrew?)

[tomphil]

20 hours ago, Mike E said:

If they'd just given Sam £5m per window... *sigh*

Sam would've pocketed a few quid no doubt but he'd have done some decent stuff with the remainder unlike the scum that ended up doing what they wanted.

Ironically if someone with morals and no master plan of greed had been advising they would have told them no one better fits their idea of signing freebies and loans from exotic clubs if your giving out good contracts for their last pay days but actually expecting something in return.

[JHRover]

12 hours ago, tomphil said:

Sam would've pocketed a few quid no doubt but he'd have done some decent stuff with the remainder unlike the scum that ended up doing what they wanted.

Ironically if someone with morals and no master plan of greed had been advising they would have told them no one better fits their idea of signing freebies and loans from exotic clubs if your giving out good contracts for their last pay days but actually expecting something in return.

Yeah, take out the influential agent element and they actually had everything they wanted with Big Sam - a man more than happy to do business in far flung places and pick up freebies and unknowns, only thing being he was actually good at it and those he brought in did a job.

It seems they've reverted to 2013-14 mode of letting their trusted manager get on with it and handle everything including recruitment. Hopefully that will last. Not quite sure what happened between 2015-17 but wouldn't surprise me if there was at least a partial return to the funny business of pre-Bowyer.

[tomphil]

13 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Yeah, take out the influential agent element and they actually had everything they wanted with Big Sam - a man more than happy to do business in far flung places and pick up freebies and unknowns, only thing being he was actually good at it and those he brought in did a job.

It seems they've reverted to 2013-14 mode of letting their trusted manager get on with it and handle everything including recruitment. Hopefully that will last. Not quite sure what happened between 2015-17 but wouldn't surprise me if there was at least a partial return to the funny business of pre-Bowyer.

Maybe he ended having to pick from lists of players he wasn't keen to pick from there was some dross recruited at the end when we were desperate. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a knife aimed at his back seeing as for a while at least he seemed to be in charge of some of the recruitment. Also heard recently that Lambert arrived similar to how Coyle allegedly did with no UK director involvement until the day before he pitched up.

Then of course after he realised he'd been duped we quickly ended up with Coyle and the old things started again, Wes Brown, previous failure Feeney back in on a big contract both signings buried until some more positive news. Then the contract to Stokes etc thank god the law of averages saw them get one right in Mulgrew ! And thank god we avoiddd most of the other old mates Coyle & co were after throwing contracts at i doubt they'd have made a jot of difference to the relegation fight.

The stink most definitely returned but it sems to have been contained again ...... For now.

[Leonard Venkhater]

32 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Maybe he ended having to pick from lists of players he wasn't keen to pick from there was some dross recruited at the end when we were desperate. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a knife aimed at his back seeing as for a while at least he seemed to be in charge of some of the recruitment. Also heard recently that Lambert arrived similar to how Coyle allegedly did with no UK director involvement until the day before he pitched up.

Then of course after he realised he'd been duped we quickly ended up with Coyle and the old things started again, Wes Brown, previous failure Feeney back in on a big contract both signings buried until some more positive news. Then the contract to Stokes etc thank god the law of averages saw them get one right in Mulgrew ! And thank god we avoiddd most of the other old mates Coyle & co were after throwing contracts at i doubt they'd have made a jot of difference to the relegation fight.

The stink most definitely returned but it sems to have been contained again ...... For now.

And what a stink!

[DE.]

Lambert was in a lot of ways the total opposite to a normal Venky appointment. I still don't really understand why they gave him the job. If we had gone straight from Bowyer to Coyle that would have been par the course, but Lambert in the middle along with his coaching staff was just bizarre. Then for him to leave six months later having actually expected Venky's to live up to their promises... a strange situation all around.

[Leonard Venkhater]

28 minutes ago, DE. said:

Lambert was in a lot of ways the total opposite to a normal Venky appointment. I still don't really understand why they gave him the job. If we had gone straight from Bowyer to Coyle that would have been par the course, but Lambert in the middle along with his coaching staff was just bizarre. Then for him to leave six months later having actually expected Venky's to live up to their promises... a strange situation all around.

I fell for it too!

[JHRover]

33 minutes ago, DE. said:

Lambert was in a lot of ways the total opposite to a normal Venky appointment. I still don't really understand why they gave him the job. If we had gone straight from Bowyer to Coyle that would have been par the course, but Lambert in the middle along with his coaching staff was just bizarre. Then for him to leave six months later having actually expected Venky's to live up to their promises... a strange situation all around.

My gut instinct is that Venkys had minimal involvement in it, except to rubber stamp Bowyer's sacking and the appointment of Lambert.

I suspect, piecing together things I have heard, that it was the brainchild of dear old Suhail.

I actually believe that Suhail has some, albeit limited, understanding of what a club of this size and stature needs with regards to a competent management structure, and has attempted to put this into place since his arrival on the scene.

I think he was parachuted in around the summer of 2015. Either because Madame washed her hands of it and Balaji took more control or because the money men in India had got fed up and demanded change.

I think Suhail quickly concluded that Bowyer's time was up - hence him not being invited to India, extremely limited transfer business that summer and sales of players behind his back. For whatever reason he couldn't get rid of Bowyer immediately but the rumours were there of approaches to other managers for some time and that culminated in the rumours after the Brighton defeat that he'd gone.

Eventually Suhail received permission to remove Bowyer and we saw the sudden and impressive appointment of a proven manager for the first time in years - Suhail had concluded that the ONLY chance the club had of getting up was to install a proven management team to deliver it, and also recognised the importance of a swift and professional appointment rather than the shambles seen previously with delay and indecisiveness.

I suspect this stunt, coupled with his increasing influence and power around the place, was the push Shaw needed to depart from his previously cushy number, and maybe Myers also (or alternatively Myers went once he realised it was going belly up with Lambert).

All good in theory to begin with, except the money wasn't there to see it through.

I suspect that Pasha made Lambert a number of promises/commitments which would/could materialise and Lambert, unemployed and in need of a fresh start, eventually decided it was worth the gamble and the worst that could happen was he would activate his release clause at the end of it should he fail to get what he wanted/needed. Pasha arguably bit off more than he could chew with that appointment because impressive as the appointment was it came with increased expectations and demands from the manager for a proper structure and investment. The majority of managers would put up with waiting and confusion and reduced budgets but he had picked Lambert who comes from the O'Neill camp of have things his way or resign.

Therefore when Lambert went Pasha followed a similar path with his replacement - apparently giving Warnock sufficient encouragement that he believed he was getting the job and offering him a significant budget (more cash than he had at QPR when getting them promoted). Something then changed, whether it was the money men butting in, influential agents or a genuine cock up from Suhail, but Coyle was able to wriggle in, promising to do the job at a fraction of the cost of Lambert/Warnock.

The important thing is that Coyle was a previous promotion winner and Premier League manager - and that 'qualified' him for the job - same for Mowbray (also recall Nigel Adkins strong favourite pre-Mowbray).

I've been very critical of Suhail since he arrived, and rightly so given our fall into division 3, but I will give him some credit, I think he understands the importance of experienced managers with track records behind them and is a lot more decisive than previous incumbents. The appointment of Paul Senior whilst short lived and strange was another example of appointing the sort of people that clubs of this size appoint with know how of the industry and an idea behind structures.

I will credit Suhail with ushering in a new era of more decisiveness, more semblance of a normal football club, but he's also been there during some monumental cock ups, Coyle being the standout one, which he may or may not deserve criticism for.

 

[DE.]

18 minutes ago, JHRover said:

My gut instinct is that Venkys had minimal involvement in it, except to rubber stamp Bowyer's sacking and the appointment of Lambert.

I suspect, piecing together things I have heard, that it was the brainchild of dear old Suhail.

I actually believe that Suhail has some, albeit limited, understanding of what a club of this size and stature needs with regards to a competent management structure, and has attempted to put this into place since his arrival on the scene.

I think he was parachuted in around the summer of 2015. Either because Madame washed her hands of it and Balaji took more control or because the money men in India had got fed up and demanded change.

I think Suhail quickly concluded that Bowyer's time was up - hence him not being invited to India, extremely limited transfer business that summer and sales of players behind his back. For whatever reason he couldn't get rid of Bowyer immediately but the rumours were there of approaches to other managers for some time and that culminated in the rumours after the Brighton defeat that he'd gone.

Eventually Suhail received permission to remove Bowyer and we saw the sudden and impressive appointment of a proven manager for the first time in years - Suhail had concluded that the ONLY chance the club had of getting up was to install a proven management team to deliver it, and also recognised the importance of a swift and professional appointment rather than the shambles seen previously with delay and indecisiveness.

I suspect this stunt, coupled with his increasing influence and power around the place, was the push Shaw needed to depart from his previously cushy number, and maybe Myers also (or alternatively Myers went once he realised it was going belly up with Lambert).

All good in theory to begin with, except the money wasn't there to see it through.

I suspect that Pasha made Lambert a number of promises/commitments which would/could materialise and Lambert, unemployed and in need of a fresh start, eventually decided it was worth the gamble and the worst that could happen was he would activate his release clause at the end of it should he fail to get what he wanted/needed. Pasha arguably bit off more than he could chew with that appointment because impressive as the appointment was it came with increased expectations and demands from the manager for a proper structure and investment. The majority of managers would put up with waiting and confusion and reduced budgets but he had picked Lambert who comes from the O'Neill camp of have things his way or resign.

Therefore when Lambert went Pasha followed a similar path with his replacement - apparently giving Warnock sufficient encouragement that he believed he was getting the job and offering him a significant budget (more cash than he had at QPR when getting them promoted). Something then changed, whether it was the money men butting in, influential agents or a genuine cock up from Suhail, but Coyle was able to wriggle in, promising to do the job at a fraction of the cost of Lambert/Warnock.

The important thing is that Coyle was a previous promotion winner and Premier League manager - and that 'qualified' him for the job - same for Mowbray (also recall Nigel Adkins strong favourite pre-Mowbray).

I've been very critical of Suhail since he arrived, and rightly so given our fall into division 3, but I will give him some credit, I think he understands the importance of experienced managers with track records behind them and is a lot more decisive than previous incumbents. The appointment of Paul Senior whilst short lived and strange was another example of appointing the sort of people that clubs of this size appoint with know how of the industry and an idea behind structures.

I will credit Suhail with ushering in a new era of more decisiveness, more semblance of a normal football club, but he's also been there during some monumental cock ups, Coyle being the standout one, which he may or may not deserve criticism for.

 

When you look at our pattern of managers since Venky's came in, pretty much every time it's somebody who will feel very grateful for being given the job. Leaving Lambert out of the picture...

Kean - totally unqualified, a yes man willing to do and say anything to keep the job. 

Berg - very little managerial experience, had been slating Venky's only months before. Probably never thought he'd be given the chance to manage at this level so soon.

Appleton - Had always managed at basket case clubs, this one actually had a little money behind it and a few decent players. Another with very little real experience.

Bowyer - no first team managerial experience, a huge opportunity for him. 

Coyle - reputation in tatters after a number of failures, probably couldn't believe his luck when he was allowed to worm his way in here.

Mowbray - career on the slide for a number of years, last job was with a struggling Coventry in L1. Rovers also a basket case but with a budget and decent players still hanging around, he realistically wasn't going to get any better offers.

I wonder if they thought Lambert was in the same mould as all of the above? Basically desperate for the job and willing to take on a lot of shit just for the opportunity to be here. I get the feeling Pasha or whoever else was involved underestimated Lambert's ambition and self-confidence. No previous manager would have walked like Lambert did, even Kean had to be pushed off the bus (literally if some stories are to be believed) before he resigned. The others were all sacked after having to deal with far more than any manager really should thanks to our skeleton board structure, although in Berg & Appleton's case they barely had their feet in the door before being caught in the Shebby/Shagnew crossfire. 

Mowbray is undoubtedly the most reputable and suitable manager we've had since Venky's got here, but I think he fits their template far better than Lambert ever did. 

[Neal]

Venkys Out. Now and forever. No credit, no sympathy, no forgiveness. SCUM.

[Leonard Venkhater]

To have one crazy, destructive mini regime is too much for any supporter, but- in a myxomatosis of metaphors- I am starting to see this an already vulnerable patient hit not only by several serious diseases,  but also by the murderous football equivalent of Harold Shipman and Beverley Allitt...

a) Anderson/Kean conspiracy, culminating in Wolves survival

b)Anderson Kean conspiracy 2, culminating in predictable ( deliberate)relegation-this after the Pune promises

c) post deluvian Shebby Sing earthquake plus managerial mayhem. Civil war between representatives of two partners/stakeholders( separate owners)

d)Bowyer stability/stagnation/sales

d)Lambert con/sales

c) Coyle conspiracy, another predictable(deliberate)relegation

 

d) Mowbray etc