[Archived] A new era?

[JHRover]

Just now, DE. said:

 

I wonder if they thought Lambert was in the same mould as all of the above? Basically desperate for the job and willing to take on a lot of shit just for the opportunity to be here. I get the feeling Pasha or whoever else was involved underestimated Lambert's ambition and self-confidence. No previous manager would have walked like Lambert did, even Kean had to be pushed off the bus (literally if some stories are to be believed) before he resigned. The others were all sacked after having to deal with far more than any manager really should thanks to our skeleton board structure, although in Berg & Appleton's case they barely had their feet in the door before being caught in the Shebby/Shagnew crossfire. 

Mowbray is undoubtedly the most reputable and suitable manager we've had since Venky's got here, but I think he fits their template far better than Lambert ever did. 

Lambert ticked all the boxes except he was too ambitious. He wanted everything his way, a big budget and promotion and nothing less was acceptable. As I say, he learnt from the master of it with Martin O'Neill who chucks his toys out of the pram when he doesn't like what is happening.

On the surface though both Coyle and Mowbray have the same as Lambert - previous promotion winners with brief Premier League experience currently out of work.

Lambert had the Villa pay-off and Norwich success to fall back on - he didn't need to work and knew eventually he would get another Championship job should he want one. The same cannot be said of Coyle and Mowbray who were very much in the last chance saloon when joining us and both were arguably lucky to do so given their previous jobs.

I am intrigued as to how Mowbray managed to do what Lambert and Coyle didn't do and get access to India and seemingly win the trust of the decision makers there. Again my guess is that after a few months of working with him last season that Pasha realised that Mowbray was more suitable than Lambert and Coyle and was a 'man they could do business with' and therefore gave him the thumbs up to India.

I think those in India do place a great deal of weight on Pasha's views, even if he can't actually hire and fire people himself.

[Dreams of 1995]

11 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Lambert ticked all the boxes except he was too ambitious. He wanted everything his way, a big budget and promotion and nothing less was acceptable. As I say, he learnt from the master of it with Martin O'Neill who chucks his toys out of the pram when he doesn't like what is happening.

On the surface though both Coyle and Mowbray have the same as Lambert - previous promotion winners with brief Premier League experience currently out of work.

Lambert had the Villa pay-off and Norwich success to fall back on - he didn't need to work and knew eventually he would get another Championship job should he want one. The same cannot be said of Coyle and Mowbray who were very much in the last chance saloon when joining us and both were arguably lucky to do so given their previous jobs.

I am intrigued as to how Mowbray managed to do what Lambert and Coyle didn't do and get access to India and seemingly win the trust of the decision makers there. Again my guess is that after a few months of working with him last season that Pasha realised that Mowbray was more suitable than Lambert and Coyle and was a 'man they could do business with' and therefore gave him the thumbs up to India.

I think those in India do place a great deal of weight on Pasha's views, even if he can't actually hire and fire people himself.

They must do if they have brought him on to run what must surely be their biggest loss making enterprise. He's here as the man to turn things around, in a business sense at least. Which begs the question why there is such a shroud of secrecy around him?

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

When you look at our pattern of managers since Venky's came in, pretty much every time it's somebody who will feel very grateful for being given the job. Leaving Lambert out of the picture...

Kean - totally unqualified, a yes man willing to do and say anything to keep the job. 

Berg - very little managerial experience, had been slating Venky's only months before. Probably never thought he'd be given the chance to manage at this level so soon.

Appleton - Had always managed at basket case clubs, this one actually had a little money behind it and a few decent players. Another with very little real experience.

Bowyer - no first team managerial experience, a huge opportunity for him. 

Coyle - reputation in tatters after a number of failures, probably couldn't believe his luck when he was allowed to worm his way in here.

Mowbray - career on the slide for a number of years, last job was with a struggling Coventry in L1. Rovers also a basket case but with a budget and decent players still hanging around, he realistically wasn't going to get any better offers.

I wonder if they thought Lambert was in the same mould as all of the above? Basically desperate for the job and willing to take on a lot of shit just for the opportunity to be here. I get the feeling Pasha or whoever else was involved underestimated Lambert's ambition and self-confidence. No previous manager would have walked like Lambert did, even Kean had to be pushed off the bus (literally if some stories are to be believed) before he resigned. The others were all sacked after having to deal with far more than any manager really should thanks to our skeleton board structure, although in Berg & Appleton's case they barely had their feet in the door before being caught in the Shebby/Shagnew crossfire. 

Mowbray is undoubtedly the most reputable and suitable manager we've had since Venky's got here, but I think he fits their template far better than Lambert ever did. 

On paper, I don't think Berg and Appleton looked to be bad appointments at the time. In fact both have had decent enough careers since leaving here. I would put their failure down to the absolute circus going on behind the scenes and in the stands(rightly) at the time. 

In my opinion there is one decision that has set the tone and facilitated all that has come after it, that was appointing and sticking with Kean. It showed how out of touch the owners were with the fans and football in general. If they had have stuck with Allardcye for a year or two to keep the ship steady while they learned about owning a football club, we would still be in the Premiership. It appears they have learned , its just that it has taken us ending up in League 1 for that learning to take place. 

The real test in my eyes is how they back Mowbray if/when we go up. If they get us back to the Premiership, that will go a long way to restoring them as owners in my eyes. There is no point holding a grudge for mistakes made, water under the bridge. Particularly now that we appear, for the 1st time in a long time, to be moving in the right direction.  

[Dreams of 1995]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

On paper, I don't think Berg and Appleton looked to be bad appointments at the time. In fact both have had decent enough careers since leaving here. I would put their failure down to the absolute circus going on behind the scenes and in the stands(rightly) at the time. 

In my opinion there is one decision that has set the tone and facilitated all that has come after it, that was appointing and sticking with Kean. It showed how out of touch the owners were with the fans and football in general. If they had have stuck with Allardcye for a year or two to keep the ship steady while they learned about owning a football club, we would still be in the Premiership. It appears they have learned , its just that it has taken us ending up in League 1 for that learning to take place. 

The real test in my eyes is how they back Mowbray if/when we go up. If they get us back to the Premiership, that will go a long way to restoring them as owners in my eyes. There is no point holding a grudge for mistakes made, water under the bridge. Particularly now that we appear, for the 1st time in a long time, to be moving in the right direction.  

I'd say the appointment of Coyle was equally, if not more so, evidence that they are out of touch with fans and football. The appointment of a failing manager is bad enough, let alone ex Burnley villain Owen Coyle. It was a huge kick in the teeth.

[Neal]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

It appears they have learned , its just that it has taken us ending up in League 1 for that learning to take place.

 Yeah if you call being given the option of either investing to make it a viable business or insolvency "learning".

[DE.]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

On paper, I don't think Berg and Appleton looked to be bad appointments at the time. In fact both have had decent enough careers since leaving here. I would put their failure down to the absolute circus going on behind the scenes and in the stands(rightly) at the time. 

In my opinion there is one decision that has set the tone and facilitated all that has come after it, that was appointing and sticking with Kean. It showed how out of touch the owners were with the fans and football in general. If they had have stuck with Allardcye for a year or two to keep the ship steady while they learned about owning a football club, we would still be in the Premiership. It appears they have learned , its just that it has taken us ending up in League 1 for that learning to take place. 

The real test in my eyes is how they back Mowbray if/when we go up. If they get us back to the Premiership, that will go a long way to restoring them as owners in my eyes. There is no point holding a grudge for mistakes made, water under the bridge. Particularly now that we appear, for the 1st time in a long time, to be moving in the right direction.  

I think on paper they both were bad appointments at the time and if anything their careers afterwards proves neither were ready to be managing Rovers in the Championship at that point in their careers. If I recall correctly Berg had never managed outside of Norway. Appleton had taken Portsmouth down and been at Blackpool for a couple of months. Nowhere near the credentials required for a team looking to bounce back into the Premier League at the first attempt.

Since then Appleton managed at Oxford in League 1/2 and is now an assistant manager. Berg was sacked at Legia Warsaw and some club called Videoton in Hungary, so not sure that counts as "decent". Appleton in fairness did have some good success at Oxford, but he was clearly brought in here well above his level and we performed in kind. Even GB with no managerial experience showed far more nous than Appleton. 

As for water under the bridge, no, not for me. A long way to go before that applies. I remain suspicious and resentful until we're back to where we were before they arrived. I don't expect to be forgiving them any time soon, although I'm content to just ignore them for the time being and support Mowbray in what he's trying to do.

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

I think on paper they both were bad appointments at the time and if anything their careers afterwards proves neither were ready to be managing Rovers in the Championship at that point in their careers. If I recall correctly Berg had never managed outside of Norway. Appleton had taken Portsmouth down and been at Blackpool for a couple of months. Nowhere near the credentials required for a team looking to bounce back into the Premier League at the first attempt.

Since then Appleton managed at Oxford in League 1/2 and is now an assistant manager. Berg was sacked at Legia Warsaw and some club called Videoton in Hungary, so not sure that counts as "decent". Appleton in fairness did have some good success at Oxford, but he was clearly brought in here well above his level and we performed in kind. Even GB with no managerial experience showed far more nous than Appleton. 

As for water under the bridge, no, not for me. A long way to go before that applies. I remain suspicious and resentful until we're back to where we were before they arrived. I don't expect to be forgiving them any time soon, although I'm content to just ignore them for the time being and support Mowbray in what he's trying to do.

You are being selective with your assessment of both above. Berg won the league and cup at Warsaw and had a win percentage of 62%. He guided "some club called Videoton" to 2nd in the Hungarian league last year. The main reason he did get the job was because he played here and had a pretty good record in Norway. As for Appleton, you say he is an assistant manager now, neglecting to mentioning that is at a club that won the Premiership 2 seasons ago. In fact he was actually their caretaker manager at one point. I would have picked Mick Mcarthy or Neil Warnock all day, but I do think Appleton and Berg may have done better if things weren't as crazy off the field.  

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You are being selective with your assessment of both above. Berg won the league and cup at Warsaw and had a win percentage of 62%. He guided "some club called Videoton" to 2nd in the Hungarian league last year. The main reason he did get the job was because he played here and had a pretty good record in Norway. As for Appleton, you say he is an assistant manager now, neglecting to mentioning that is at a club that won the Premiership 2 seasons ago. In fact he was actually their caretaker manager at one point. I would have picked Mick Mcarthy or Neil Warnock all day, but I do think Appleton and Berg may have done better if things weren't as crazy off the field.  

2nd in the Hungarian league and still sacked, cruel world eh?

Regardless of whether they were good enough or not (imo not), they're history now. I'd much rather have Mowbray than either of them!

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

36 minutes ago, DE. said:

2nd in the Hungarian league and still sacked, cruel world eh?

Regardless of whether they were good enough or not (imo not), they're history now. I'd much rather have Mowbray than either of them!

 

True that! 

[OJRovers]

Under Mowbray, it is the first time for me that I can believe that the team is being picked with 100% best endevours to win the match. Every other manager had selections which went against the normal instincts of those of us who have watched football for decades. Aren't we better for it!

[tomphil]

I wouldn't be surprised if every appointment that didn't come from within was similar in that there was minimal if any at all involvement from whatever UK directors were in situ. Some will say that's standard Venky way of doing things, maybe, others including me would say it still points to heavy third party involvement were it's all presented to them then sorted away from prying eyes because it's part of the overall agreement between the suits.

Also given that virtually every one was a 25-1 outside shot they wouldn't want the odds spoiling for whoever makes a bit of pocket money out of it and before anyone jumps all over that i'm thinking if your an agent in the know and spread beat 500 quid it's a nice little bit of spending doh and no one is any the wiser.

[47er]

7 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'd say the appointment of Coyle was equally, if not more so, evidence that they are out of touch with fans and football. The appointment of a failing manager is bad enough, let alone ex Burnley villain Owen Coyle. It was a huge kick in the teeth.

I'd assume they never had any real knowledge about Coyle and that someone whispered in their ear when Warnock was about to be appointed. This is their failing, to own a football club but to have no regard or idea about what is involved in running it. We have been abandoned to anyone who has Balaji's ear and wants to make quick money.

Maybe at last they have someone they trust and maybe,at last, we have someone worthy of trust. So maybe we can wing it it back to the big-time.

Let's hope so.

[roverandout]

No corner turned..no new era until venkys cluck off

[47er]

On 26/01/2018 at 00:39, DE. said:

When you look at our pattern of managers since Venky's came in, pretty much every time it's somebody who will feel very grateful for being given the job. Leaving Lambert out of the picture...

Kean - totally unqualified, a yes man willing to do and say anything to keep the job. 

Berg - very little managerial experience, had been slating Venky's only months before. Probably never thought he'd be given the chance to manage at this level so soon.

Appleton - Had always managed at basket case clubs, this one actually had a little money behind it and a few decent players. Another with very little real experience.

Bowyer - no first team managerial experience, a huge opportunity for him. 

Coyle - reputation in tatters after a number of failures, probably couldn't believe his luck when he was allowed to worm his way in here.

Mowbray - career on the slide for a number of years, last job was with a struggling Coventry in L1. Rovers also a basket case but with a budget and decent players still hanging around, he realistically wasn't going to get any better offers.

I wonder if they thought Lambert was in the same mould as all of the above? Basically desperate for the job and willing to take on a lot of shit just for the opportunity to be here. I get the feeling Pasha or whoever else was involved underestimated Lambert's ambition and self-confidence. No previous manager would have walked like Lambert did, even Kean had to be pushed off the bus (literally if some stories are to be believed) before he resigned. The others were all sacked after having to deal with far more than any manager really should thanks to our skeleton board structure, although in Berg & Appleton's case they barely had their feet in the door before being caught in the Shebby/Shagnew crossfire. 

Mowbray is undoubtedly the most reputable and suitable manager we've had since Venky's got here, but I think he fits their template far better than Lambert ever did. 

Good post. When you look at that managerial list, its a wonder the club is still here.

[47er]

If it was deliberate Leonard, that means something Venkys planned actually worked!

[Leonard Venkhater]

On 1/27/2018 at 20:48, 47er said:

If it was deliberate Leonard, that means something Venkys planned actually worked!

But if you mean the relegation, it was as if someone had a change of mind in February....when it was too late!

[RevidgeBlue]

For me Lambert was arguably the worst of the managers Venky's have appointed.

Quite clearly only came on a short term flier to see if he could scrape us into the play offs,  with a get out of jail free walk out clause if things went belly up which they quickly did. 

After quickly realising he wasn't going to be here more than a few months he couldn't have given two hoots about the medium to long term future of the Club, selling our most valuable player on the last day of the transfer window, leaving us with hardly anyone left under contract and players futures up in the air and without a single under contract striker at the Club when he left.

He criticised the owners at regular intervals in the press, then didn't have a bad word to say about anyone at the Club when he left - neither would I if they'd boosted my bank balance for six months or so with no real obligation on my part.

Given all that, and the fact that his appointment was followed by that of Coyle, who would struggle to set his side up to defend at any level, whilst I still have my reservations about TM, it perhaps makes the overall job he is doing even more creditable.

The owners seem to have run things relatively sensibly since summer and without wanting to count any chickens (no pun intended) we appear to be reaping the benefits. If we can achieve promotion this season, which we really ought to with the tools at the manager's disposal, then substantial investment would probably be needed to challenge to move up another level but far stranger things have happened.

[Mattyblue]

Lambert was a worse appointment than Coyle? Than KEAN?

I know you like to hold a grudge, but come on!

[JBiz]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

For me Lambert was arguably the worst of the managers Venky's have appointed.

Arguably the worst, what about Kean, Berg, Appleton, and Coyle? Ok you can suggest the one main reason for all their failure, but Kean actually lied and smiled whilst he set metaphorical fires that would burn for years.. there is no comparison, even Coyle...

I seriously don’t think anyone could agree with that statement. Lambert was an actual Manager... I actually thought he did poorly here (for the obvious main reasons) and clearly gave up by March. Some would say you cant blame him for that decision, but I took it a bit more personally and felt his lack of “spine” was two fingers up at the fans.

Even all that and his defensively minded approach, I still rate him far above any of those other I mentioned. I’m sure you must see why? 

[blueboy3333]

On ‎25‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 17:19, OJRovers said:

Under Mowbray, it is the first time for me that I can believe that the team is being picked with 100% best endevours to win the match. Every other manager had selections which went against the normal instincts of those of us who have watched football for decades. Aren't we better for it!

Like not picking Chapman?

[JacknOry]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

For me Lambert was arguably the worst of the managers Venky's have appointed.

Quite clearly only came on a short term flier to see if he could scrape us into the play offs,  with a get out of jail free walk out clause if things went belly up which they quickly did. 

After quickly realising he wasn't going to be here more than a few months he couldn't have given two hoots about the medium to long term future of the Club, selling our most valuable player on the last day of the transfer window, leaving us with hardly anyone left under contract and players futures up in the air and without a single under contract striker at the Club when he left.

He criticised the owners at regular intervals in the press, then didn't have a bad word to say about anyone at the Club when he left - neither would I if they'd boosted my bank balance for six months or so with no real obligation on my part.

Given all that, and the fact that his appointment was followed by that of Coyle, who would struggle to set his side up to defend at any level, whilst I still have my reservations about TM, it perhaps makes the overall job he is doing even more creditable.

The owners seem to have run things relatively sensibly since summer and without wanting to count any chickens (no pun intended) we appear to be reaping the benefits. If we can achieve promotion this season, which we really ought to with the tools at the manager's disposal, then substantial investment would probably be needed to challenge to move up another level but far stranger things have happened.

Think you are well off there