[Archived] Attendances

[Mattyblue]

Just now, longsiders1882 said:

1. In the full season prior to Dyche coming in average attendance was 14048, not approaching 4 figures at all - we've added about 6500 as a result of doing well in the Championship/Playing in the P/L - In Dyche's first full season it was 13719

 

So lets be honest, both sides have bandwagon jumpers and all sides will get more on when they are being more successful 

 

Got my dates wrong, but your average  crowds were down to averages of 11 and 12k before your first promotion under Coil, which obviously means some of the crowds would have been lower than 10k. Even that 13k season under Dyche would have had some sub 10k crowds. Fair enough, we had one last season too.

 

Second point, totally agree and now you've had some relative success yourself you've realised that bandwagoners are a by-product of said success, that is a fairly obvious state of affairs (watch PNE's gates double if they go up), but it was a point lost on most Burnley fans throughout the 90s and 00s...

[K-Hod]

The population of Burnley may well be 87,500, but people in Padiham (is that counted?) and Pendle are hardly going to support anyone but Burnley, are they really?

(Similar to Darwen and Rovers to be fair, though there are some Bolton fans and even some Dingles there!)

[longsiders1882]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

 

Got my dates wrong, but your average  crowds were down to averages of 11 and 12k before your first promotion under Coil, which obviously means some of the crowds would have been lower than 10k. Even that 13k season under Dyche would have had some sub 10k crowds. Fair enough, we had one last season too.

 

Second point, totally agree and now you've had some relative success yourself you've realised that bandwagoners are a by-product of said success, that is a fairly obvious state of affairs (watch PNE's gates double if they go up), but it was a point lost on most Burnley fans throughout the 90s and 00s...

Fair enough on point 2 - and it is now a point lost on some Rovers fans.

On your first point - prior to 2000 and ternent delivering a promotion that season we were at about 10.5K in Division 3 (old money) and it did drop below 12 in the 2007 season. Otherwise it varied between about 12.5 and 13.5. At Divison 2 level (old money) we will get near 14K if we are doing well and near 13 if we aren't.

[longsiders1882]

Just now, K-Hod said:

The population of Burnley may well be 87,500, but people in Padiham (is that counted?) and Pendle are hardly going to support anyone but Burnley, are they really?

(Similar to Darwen and Rovers to be fair, though there are some Bolton fans and even some Dingles there!)

Its as easy to go to Rovers as it is Burnley though and when you were top flight no doubt many did - I didn't include Darwen for yours which would make your population around 150K I think as it seemed fairer to look only at the towns directly. The point I was trying to make is, like it or not, the two town and clubs are not as dissimilar as many would chose to believe or portray - maybe it is similarity not familiarity that breeds contempt.

[Mattyblue]

Of course they are similar, as are Bolton. It's a local arch-rivalry, so of course we are looking for the worst in each other, Burnley/Blackburn is a sh*thole etc etc. 

However, twenty years of nonsense from Burnley fans relating to Rovers' support doesn't just get ignored, especially as your rise neatly reflects our own, crowd wise.

 

 

[tomphil]

The urban conurbations of Burnley/Padiham/Nelson are probably on a par with the borough of Blackburn & Darwen population wise that's why Bumley when doing well can pull in similar gates not this fallacy that everyone in dingle town supports the dingles and every other person attends every home game etc. Spin that A. Campbell would be proud of that is

When I've worked up around there there was plenty of Liverpool & Man U shirts knocking about and on the other side of the coin when I worked in Rawtenstall it was overflowing with Dingles. Also had a pal who lived in Skipton and we sometimes went up to Crosshills, both those areas full of Burnley & Leeds.

Then factor Rochdale who've always hated Burnley because half the town looks that way for it's football, even their chairman commented recently that he thought there was more Burnley fans in Rochdale than Rochdale fans.

They're everywhere these days even Chorley

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, longsiders1882 said:

Utter tosh and can't believe you are clinging onto the whole attendance debate, the very thing you used to mock  Burnley fans for. If we must do it though, lets stick to facts: 

1. In the full season prior to Dyche coming in average attendance was 14048, not approaching 4 figures at all - we've added about 6500 as a result of doing well in the Championship/Playing in the P/L - In Dyche's first full season it was 13719

2. The population of Burnley is 87500, the population of Blackburn is 105,000 (excluding Darwen). At championship level our average attendance as a percentage of the population was about 15.5% - yours was about 14.25% so very similar. At P/L level yours was about 24.5% (21.5 the relegation season), ours is about 22.5%.

3. Your season tickets cost around £279 - ours are upto £450. Fair play to your club as there is little doubt in towns where a lot of people are struggling financially making the tickets more affordable helps.

So lets be honest, both sides have bandwagon jumpers and all sides will get more on when they are being more successful - look at your attendances this season since you started seriously competing for the top 2.

1. Dyche arrived mid-way through the 2012-13 season. The average attendance that season was 12,900. So not far off 4 figures and there were several games in the Championship that season that attracted little over 10,000 supporters. Dyche's first full season was the 2013-14 season, in which the average attendance was 13,700. Despite being top end of the league and pushing for an unexpected promotion all that season numerous home games were sub-15,000.

2. We can play the population game all day long and throw various statistics out. The population of Blackburn in the last (2011) census was 117,000, which was proportionally of the biggest growths in population in the UK, up by 12,000 from 105,000 ten years earlier. Chuck in Darwen and the population is more than 140,000. The population of Burnley in the 2011 census was 87,000. But then we all know that whilst a sizeable chunk of Rovers support comes from Darwen, a sizeable chunk of Burnley's support comes from Nelson (29,000), Colne (17,000) and Barnoldswick (10,000). A combined population of more than 50,000.

3. The cheapest Rovers season ticket for an adult is £279. That's early bird in one stand. For the majority (Jack Walker, Darwen End and Blackburn End) they are £299+ at early bird prices. A quick glance at Burnley's pricing and adult early bird prices begin at £329 in the McIlroy and Ladbrokes stands. So there's actually about £30 difference between the two corresponding prices to sit behind goals or in the lower side tiers for an adult. Making tickets cheaper should help, but when the club has been run like Rovers have been run for 7 years I suspect the pricing pales into insignificance for a lot of people. I expect if the prices had been £50 a head more but we'd been in the Premier League we'd be getting more than 18,000 a week on Ewood.

There's bandwagon jumpers floating all around but lets end this myth that Burnley solely draw their support from an 80,000 catchment area and get them in with much higher prices than Rovers. They aren't that much different whilst the performance on the pitch has been drastically better in the last few years to balance that additional cost out.

 

[K-Hod]

34 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The urban conurbations of Burnley/Padiham/Nelson are probably on a par with the borough of Blackburn & Darwen population wise that's why Bumley when doing well can pull in similar gates not this fallacy that everyone in dingle town supports the dingles and every other person attends every home game etc. Spin that A. Campbell would be proud of that is

When I've worked up around there there was plenty of Liverpool & Man U shirts knocking about and on the other side of the coin when I worked in Rawtenstall it was overflowing with Dingles. Also had a pal who lived in Skipton and we sometimes went up to Crosshills, both those areas full of Burnley & Leeds.

Then factor Rochdale who've always hated Burnley because half the town looks that way for it's football, even their chairman commented recently that he thought there was more Burnley fans in Rochdale than Rochdale fans.

They're everywhere these days even Chorley

Re Rawtenstall, I live quite near there and in my experience I'd say there were more United fans there than anything else.

[tomphil]

21 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Re Rawtenstall, I live quite near there and in my experience I'd say there were more United fans there than anything else.

Actually you might have a point there were loads on the site i was at but loads of dingles as well but it's only up the road to Burnley from there. It's another of their big catchment areas they pretend doesn't exist yet according to them Rovers's goes all the way to Bolton/Manchester after you leave Feniscowles... muppets ?

[Stuart]

23 hours ago, only2garners said:

I'm a season ticket holder and I'll have missed 9 games by the end of the season - what do I get Stuart? 

Not sure why this has turned into a witch hunt.

You get the option not to buy a new ST next season.

Selling a 6 game bundle and moving half the games is more likely to put off the exact type of fan these offers are aimed at - the floating punter. ST holders are likely to buy one anyway and find a way to get to as many games as possible.

Ergo this strategy won’t work. £5 games or a two for £15 type offer - once dates are known. Or don’t bother. Or just charge ST prices for every single game and people can take their chances where they sit.

[Paul]

On 21/03/2018 at 06:50, Stuart said:

It really didn’t Paul.

OK. Thanks. Apologies from my side as well. 

[Claytons Left Boot]

17 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Re Rawtenstall, I live quite near there and in my experience I'd say there were more United fans there than anything else.

Regarding Rossendale, there are Rovers and Burnley fans in all the towns and villages. I would say the general rule is that Haslingden is more Rovers but the rest, from Waterfoot, Rawtenstall and right the way to Bacup is Burnley. I worked in Rawtenstall for a few weeks at the beginning of 1996 and was surprised at just how many Rovers scarves I saw. I suppose the majority of these may no longer be attending.

[JHRover]

Always a bad sign when in Rawtenstall ASDA the Lancashire Telegraph on sale is of the Claret variety. Usually a giveaway as to the make-up of which way the locals lean.

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, meadows said:

Don’t Rovers draw support from Hyndburn, Rossendale, Ribble Valley, Chorley, South Ribble and other places that aren’t Blackburn? 

I don't know the stats but I see Ribble Valley and Hyndburn as very much mixed. Not heavily weighted in either direction. Plenty of Clarets in Accy, Harwood, Clitheroe and Whalley, also plenty of Rovers fans. Rossendale is also a mixture though probably more Burnley when you get to Rawtenstall and Bacup.

The point I was making was that Nelson, Padiham, Colne and Barlick etc. are almost exclusively Burnley territory. There's no-one else to support that way. I expect the number of Rovers supporters in those towns are a very small minority. As Burnley supporters are in Darwen which is predominantly a Rovers town.

However, areas like Chorley and South Ribble, whilst well populated with Rovers fans, also have plenty of Preston and Bolton supporters and probably plenty of others looking more over to Merseyside and Manchester. Certainly not a situation like Colne where there's no other competition from rival clubs unless you head over the Pennines.

[Mattyblue]

I believe you are an Ossy lad JH.

Wasn't Ossy, Rishton, Great Harwood (even Accy itself) always far more Rovers leaning than Burnley - so Ossy and Rishton should be, by the way, as they are literally on Blackburn's doorstep, but they seem to have a much bigger Dingle presence these days (I'd noticed this prior to the Dyche revolution), any reason?

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I have several record books and I was browsing the Rochdale one recently -

Division 4 Season 1985-86 - Burnley 1-  Rochdale 0. Att -  4241

Division 4 Season 1986-87 - Burnley 0- Rochdale 3. Att - 4217

Just saying.

No doubt Longsiders would have been there with his scarf and rattle.

In the old days I'd get the Ellen Smiths coach from Rochdale to the Burnley v Rovers game. I'd get on in town but it picked up in Whitworth, Facit, Brittania, Bacup etc . It'd end up full of Burnleys fans and just me in my Rovers scarf and maybe a neutral pal I'd got to go along to watch a game. Different times then, win or lose nobody ever bothered me on the coach. Of course I behaved myself.

[JHRover]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I believe you are an Ossy lad JH.

Wasn't Ossy, Rishton, Great Harwood (even Accy itself) always far more Rovers leaning than Burnley - so Ossy and Rishton should be, by the way, as they are literally on Blackburn's doorstep, but they seem to have a much bigger Dingle presence these days (I'd noticed this prior to the Dyche revolution), any reason?

 

Certainly more dingles coming out of the woodwork these days in those areas. I'd always put it down to them being quiet whilst we were at the top table and they were in the 3rd and 4th divisions and have since come out of the closet making more of a meal out of it because things have lurched so dramatically the other way. If the two clubs had been and still were neck and neck then perhaps it might not be as obvious and they might not flaunt their colours in such a way.

Think Ossy I would put down as majority Rovers, but there's still a surprising number of dingles knocking about, including those who never once mentioned their allegiance 10-15 years ago. Not sure about Rishton. Accy I think is a mixture. Hard to say for sure but loads of dingles over the other side of Accy going up towards Clayton and Huncoat. Baxenden maybe Rovers dominated.

[longsiders1882]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I have several record books and I was browsing the Rochdale one recently -

Division 4 Season 1985-86 - Burnley 1-  Rochdale 0. Att -  4241

Division 4 Season 1986-87 - Burnley 0- Rochdale 3. Att - 4217

Just saying.

No doubt Longsiders would have been there with his scarf and rattle.

In the old days I'd get the Ellen Smiths coach from Rochdale to the Burnley v Rovers game. I'd get on in town but it picked up in Whitworth, Facit, Brittania, Bacup etc . It'd end up full of Burnleys fans and just me in my Rovers scarf and maybe a neutral pal I'd got to go along to watch a game. Different times then, win or lose nobody ever bothered me on the coach. Of course I behaved myself.

Afraid I can't claim I was - like many I was busy "doing other things" and in common with many it was only the near extinction of the club that woke me up - and we've been trying to rebuild since that nadir. The decline was slow but steady and relentless, the rise has been similar. A good friend of mine had joined the forces so when he was home on leave he used to always go any home games and joked you had to shout to have a conversation, not because of the noise but because of the distance between each fan attending 

That said its those tough times (like regularly losing to stockport with Kevin Francis scoring!) that make enjoying our current times so relaxed because when it ends, it ends, I've been down there before and if it happens again c'est la vie. My youngest son, who's now 16, has only seen us at level 2 football and generally doing reasonably well so not sure he'd feel the same.

[only2garners]

16 hours ago, Stuart said:

Not sure why this has turned into a witch hunt.

You get the option not to buy a new ST next season.

Selling a 6 game bundle and moving half the games is more likely to put off the exact type of fan these offers are aimed at - the floating punter. ST holders are likely to buy one anyway and find a way to get to as many games as possible.

Ergo this strategy won’t work. £5 games or a two for £15 type offer - once dates are known. Or don’t bother. Or just charge ST prices for every single game and people can take their chances where they sit.

I didn't think I was witch hunting Stuart and apologies if you thought so. I was merely agreeing with Paul re the operation of sod's law. I knew when I bought my ST that I would miss a good few although I've been a bit unlucky. We were away for two weeks in August and missed the first two home games, then at my son's in London for the Boxing Day game and then away for 6 weeks in New Zealand and Oz from the end of January and missed 5. And I'll miss the last one. But I'll be back next season (and missing a few again no doubt).

You can blame the club for a number of things but not for the two games being moved for TV as they have no control over them and I don't anyone would have guessed that we would have 2 moved both to a Thursday night.

As far as I understand it the half STs and the 10 game offer were successful offers but the 6 game less so - I guess most of the target audience for that type of offer took up one of the first two.

Expect a cheap offer for the Peterborough game though...

[Mattyblue]

39 minutes ago, only2garners said:

 

Expect a cheap offer for the Peterborough game though...

Insider Fans Forum knowledge there O2G?

I bloody hope so, as my plethora of posts on the topic have made clear! 

[only2garners]

Yes. We spent a while talking about this sort of thing and I think the club will be offering something. We kept mentioning the £5 idea but whether it will be that or something a bit more I don't know.

Forum minutes should be on the Rovers website any time now.

[Mattyblue]

Great to hear, just a shame the game didn't stay as a Saturday 3pm

[Rover_Shaun]

5 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Great to hear, just a shame the game didn't stay as a Saturday 3pm

That's why it will be cheep because they know Thursdays will never be a football dat

[blueboy3333]

13 hours ago, meadows said:

Don’t Rovers draw support from Hyndburn, Rossendale, Ribble Valley, Chorley, South Ribble and other places that aren’t Blackburn? 

Lots of Rovers fans in Clitheroe, Longridge, Ribchester etc. I know quite a few in Preston.

[only2garners]

10 hours ago, Rover_Shaun said:

That's why it will be cheep because they know Thursdays will never be a football dat

When we were speaking to the club on 13th the game was still scheduled to be on Saturday.