[Archived] Plymouth Away - 3rd February 2018

[JHRover]

Just now, Gav said:

 

Still doesn't take away the fact people are enjoying their football again JH after years of absolute crap, and whilst I don't want to spend years down in 3rd division, the gates suggest not everyone finds the experience as traumatic as posters on here do.

I don't think we're underachieving, for many reasons, but you're right about Mowbray setting the bar, he'll have to offer his resignation if we don't go up, which is a shame because I believe you don't progress having to change managers and players every 12 months, especially when you're skint. 

People aren't finding it traumatic as we're expecting to win the league. If we don't go up and Mike Cheston's budget reduction process begins again gates will plummet.

[Paul]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

We need to be relentless yet I've seen nothing to suggest we can go on a run of wins as required. 

Bury 0 Rovers 3

Oxford 2 Rovers 4

Rovers 2 Bristol City 1

Blackpool 2 Rovers 4

Peterborough 2 Rovers 3

Rovers 2 Charlton 0

League games only  

 

 

 

 

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

People aren't finding it traumatic as we're expecting to win the league. If we don't go up and Mike Cheston's budget reduction process begins again gates will plummet.

You don't spend 8yrs being raped, pillaged, robbed and plundered by every vulture from here to Pune and suddenly become league champions, I don't care how much money you spend or how good our pies are.

Those expectations are quite simply unrealistic in my opinion. 

[JHRover]

Just now, Gav said:

You don't spend 8yrs being raped, pillaged, robbed and plundered by every vulture from here to Pune and suddenly become league champions, I don't care how much money you spend or how good our pies are.

Those expectations are quite simply unrealistic in my opinion.

So what do you consider to be realistic expectations?

If not automatic promotion then how come the manager and all the players have identified this as their aim and expectation?

I want and expect Blackburn Rovers with this squad to finish higher than Shrewsbury Town with their squad. I don't think that's unreasonable to expect.

My concern is we're heading for a repeat of the Bowyer era- that period of time had all the same markings as at present - nice bloke, talking sense, fans happy, good group of players, looking upwards toward promotion - and we all know how that one ended up after a couple of seasons flirting with promotion  - so yes I am worried because we're on the precipice with these owners and don't believe we have the luxury of a few years of stability at this level. If we were mid-table Championship it would be a different matter.

[Parsonblue]

11 minutes ago, MGPensioner said:

He said he wouldn't be

I took it that be would walk because he had not reached his own expectations given the resources available.

Mike also said it would be "slash and burn"

 

This is a critical situation Parson

We all like Tony...

But going up is the only measure that matters

He knows

We know

16 games 

Shi7 or bust

Completely disagree.  We are heading in the right direction and even if we don't go up this season I would much prefer to see Mowbray continue next season.  I still believe that promotion is achievable this season but I certainly wouldn't want to sack another manager and end up with another period of turmoil.  There are never any guarantees in football and if spending money counted for everything then Manchester United wouldn't have had such a barren period in the seventies and eighties.

[Gav]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

So what do you consider to be realistic expectations?

If not automatic promotion then how come the manager and all the players have identified this as their aim and expectation?

I want and expect Blackburn Rovers with this squad to finish higher than Shrewsbury Town with their squad. I don't think that's unreasonable to expect.

My concern is we're heading for a repeat of the Bowyer era- that period of time had all the same markings as at present - nice bloke, talking sense, fans happy, good group of players, looking upwards toward promotion - and we all know how that one ended up after a couple of seasons flirting with promotion  - so yes I am worried because we're on the precipice with these owners and don't believe we have the luxury of a few years of stability at this level. If we were mid-table Championship it would be a different matter.

I'm happy to be sat 3rd in the league with 17 wins under our belt and handily placed with 16 games to go.

The Shrewsbury comparison is a lazy way of trying to make a point, earlier in the season it was Bradford, even Oldham at one point, it doesn't matter what anyone else does, it's all about Blackburn Rovers for me. 

We don't have a god given right to walk the league due to our squad or budget, it never happened in 91 under Kenny, it never happened when we got relegated 3 times from the Premiership and won't happen this season either.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Who thinks Mowbray's got what it takes to take this team up ? I'd love to be proved wrong but I don't think he has. The same mistakes are being made now that were being made in August.

[DE.]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Who thinks Mowbray's got what it takes to take this team up ? I'd love to be proved wrong but I don't think he has. The same mistakes are being made now that were being made in August.

He does have what it takes, but I'm not sure he has the confidence in himself or the team to push us over the line. Every time I think he's embraced our position as the team to be beaten, he reverts back to type and starts worrying about the opposition, rather than letting them worry about us. It's a shame, but irrespective of that we made up significant ground on Shrewsbury over the past few months and could do again.

It's unfortunate that as soon as we got into a position where our destiny was in our own hands we instantly threw it away, and it'll take more effort to get ourselves back into that position again. We've got to hope that Shrewsbury hit a bad patch of form and Mulgew/Dack stay fit for the rest of the season.

[tomphil]

48 minutes ago, Paul said:

Bury 0 Rovers 3

Oxford 2 Rovers 4

Rovers 2 Bristol City 1

Blackpool 2 Rovers 4

Peterborough 2 Rovers 3

Rovers 2 Charlton 0

League games only  

 

 

 

 

Yet there is still a need for constant changes to the team and tactics and the leaving of good players on the bench.

Why oh why when we've shown what we can do in patches especially when the attacking options are even stronger now. TM gets a lot of stuff right despite the hysteria but he really has an Achilles heel.

[JHRover]

28 minutes ago, Gav said:

I'm happy to be sat 3rd in the league with 17 wins under our belt and handily placed with 16 games to go.

The Shrewsbury comparison is a lazy way of trying to make a point, earlier in the season it was Bradford, even Oldham at one point, it doesn't matter what anyone else does, it's all about Blackburn Rovers for me. 

We don't have a god given right to walk the league due to our squad or budget, it never happened in 91 under Kenny, it never happened when we got relegated 3 times from the Premiership and won't happen this season either.

There's a difference between thinking of a 'god given right' or 'entitlement' and expecting promotion.

I expect promotion for a number of reasons. I believe that expectation is vindicated by everything the manager and his players have said. It is quite obvious the expectation they have is to be getting promoted. 

I don't think we're entitled to be in a higher league, but roll everything up and the expectation is to get promoted.

If we don't go up we have failed to achieve a well documented expectation. Mowbray has had everything his way - he has had a squad, budget, facilities the envy of the division - if he can't get this squad into one of three slots for promotion over a full season I don't think he deserves another crack at it. It is almost certain that next season will be more difficult with Hull and Sunderland probably coming down, and we all know budgets will have to be cut.

This talk of 'rebuilding' and 'squad building' is a myth. We've got about 5 on loan, several out of contract (Evans, Conway, Graham) and another few who will get snapped up by Championship clubs (Mulgrew, Lenihan, Dack). So before we know where we're going we'll need to sign another 10 players to make up the numbers and the rebuild all starts again.

[tomphil]

I don't know the figures but i think most clubs who've had the budget and set up we have in comparison to others in this league have usually walked straight back. The likes of Sheff U & PNE, Pompey etc probably didn't have anything like the budget we have this season in comparative terms despite some pulling more coin in through the gates so obviously they've struggled a bit more.

Bradford are included in that as well.

Plenty time yet of course but there's no point trying to make out money doesn't almost guarantee success as in this league it usually does, the Championship and Prem are different levels all together these days.

[Guest]

The thought of this league for another year in itself doesn’t really bother me, I dread to see the XI the first game of next season though... I can gurantee you the top 3 scorers won’t be there.

[Bigdoggsteel]

16 minutes ago, JHRover said:

There's a difference between thinking of a 'god given right' or 'entitlement' and expecting promotion.

I expect promotion for a number of reasons. I believe that expectation is vindicated by everything the manager and his players have said. It is quite obvious the expectation they have is to be getting promoted. 

I don't think we're entitled to be in a higher league, but roll everything up and the expectation is to get promoted.

If we don't go up we have failed to achieve a well documented expectation. Mowbray has had everything his way - he has had a squad, budget, facilities the envy of the division - if he can't get this squad into one of three slots for promotion over a full season I don't think he deserves another crack at it. It is almost certain that next season will be more difficult with Hull and Sunderland probably coming down, and we all know budgets will have to be cut.

This talk of 'rebuilding' and 'squad building' is a myth. We've got about 5 on loan, several out of contract (Evans, Conway, Graham) and another few who will get snapped up by Championship clubs (Mulgrew, Lenihan, Dack). So before we know where we're going we'll need to sign another 10 players to make up the numbers and the rebuild all starts again.

A lot of blinkered assumptions there. Conway and Graham both have one year extension options that the club can trigger. Is Evans much of a loss?

You are assuming we will sell the 3 you mention,as people have been assuming since the end of last season,even though mowbray has said we don't have to sell. 

Of thoze on loan,if we go up,I would imagine we would attempt to sign a couple of the best performers. 

I expect a promotion too and I agree mowbray has no excuses if he doesn't achieve that. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mellor Rover said:

The thought of this league for another year in itself doesn’t really bother me, I dread to see the XI the first game of next season though... I can gurantee you the top 3 scorers won’t be there.

If we don't go up,our players won't have performed,so there may not be as much interest as you might think. 

If we play like we did after the draw with Plymouth at home til the end of the season, we will go up Imo

[Mike E]

I think it's as simple as he needs to get us promoted. I'd rather it was automatic, but if it's through the playoffs, so be it.

If we fail to go up, he must go. His natural caution so frustrating. Should have the roaming 3 behind Graham all going for it, as per Shrewsbury and Walsall games. Why anything changed, I don't know.

Just hope Mulgrew and Lenihan make the difference they seemingly are meant to. Ditto Chapman in the last leg of the season.

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I don't know the figures but i think most clubs who've had the budget and set up we have in comparison to others in this league have usually walked straight back. The likes of Sheff U & PNE, Pompey etc probably didn't have anything like the budget we have this season in comparative terms despite some pulling more coin in through the gates so obviously they've struggled.

Bradford are included in that as well.

Plenty time yet of course but there's no point trying to make out money doesn't almost guarantee success as in this league it usually does, the Championship and Prem are different levels all together these days.

Took Sheff Utd 5 seasons someone said.

I think about our first relegation from the Prem and the struggle we had despite having the biggest budget, best players and best facilities, made no difference, we blew it. We almost blew promotion in 91 despite being the wealthiest club in the country! 

For some reason the same rules don't apply now? and we're coming from the worst position in the clubs history? 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

If we don't go up,our players won't have performed,so there may not be as much interest as you might think. 

If we play like we did after the draw with Plymouth at home til the end of the season, we will go up Imo

In those particular 3, there will be.

I believe we will be promoted, but only if Mowbray learns and ditches this cautious approach that’s killed us so many times this year. 6-8 game win streak is required, again.

[Guest]

I know we're all disappointed at the moment with yesterdays results, but stepping out of that mindset for a minute, it's hugely refreshing to have a manager who seems to be honest with himself, rather than the positivity bullshitters that we've suffered from in the past. It'd be easy for Mowbray to put a positive spin on things, and how many of our previous managers would have done that after yesterday! But Mowbray has acknowledged that he got it wrong, and I find that somewhat reassuring, rather than sense of delusion that we've suffered in the past.

Let's hope that this our final blip, and we have the mentality to secure one of the automatic spots by the end of the season.

[LDRover]

45 minutes ago, Gav said:

Took Sheff Utd 5 seasons someone said.

I think about our first relegation from the Prem and the struggle we had despite having the biggest budget, best players and best facilities, made no difference, we blew it. We almost blew promotion in 91 despite being the wealthiest club in the country! 

For some reason the same rules don't apply now? and we're coming from the worst position in the clubs history? 

You're right Gav, money is no guarantee of success...so if it's spent unwisely or objectives are not achieved who exactly is to blame? In your haste to make a point about money you are inadvertently backing up the reservations many have about Mowbray.

[tomphil]

59 minutes ago, Gav said:

Took Sheff Utd 5 seasons someone said.

I think about our first relegation from the Prem and the struggle we had despite having the biggest budget, best players and best facilities, made no difference, we blew it. We almost blew promotion in 91 despite being the wealthiest club in the country! 

For some reason the same rules don't apply now? and we're coming from the worst position in the clubs history? 

True and there is a partial rebuild of the club going on behind the scenes, something that needs doing every 3 years under this mob.

However I think if there is a league you can big budget your way out of it's this one and like I said comparisons to Champ even back then are a bit pointless because it's different gravy altogether and always has been the gulf is huge and it's always been easy to blow money for nothing up there.

Impossible to know without the facts and figures of other clubs in comparative terms but i'd wager we have more actually going into the playing side in terms of this squad/set ups wages and fees etc, leaving off all the other millions still be poured through this club for 'other' things i'm just on about what this team cost/costs this season, than most others who've ended up in this league.

That brings the expectation and you can see why.

If Mowbray irons out his bad habits and uses what's at his disposal correctly from now till the end of the season then barring injuries and so on we still should be able to make second. Very least we need to be on Shrewsbury's coat tails waiting for any thin ice to break but a cautious, two minds mentality won't cut it but this is what he has form for so it's understandable some worry it's based on previous actions not just fans looking for excuses to have a pop.

He's the best gaffer we've had under Venkys bar non no question of that i'm very much in the stick camp but it doesn't mean he can't be questioned.

 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Hopefully, even if we don't go up, I would hope that Mowbray is still here next season.  

Don't go there Parson...don't even consider it.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

It is amazing that the world is still spinning.

There are too many matches still to play for so many posters to be writing off the season.

Any of the top 3 could lose key players to injury or suspension between now and the end of the season. The standard of refereeing is so poor - any of the teams could lose a key match down to a dodgy decision.

We had one match where the team played poorly - and unlike other matches one of our class players (like Dack (heavily marked) or Mulgrew (injured)) didn't provide a spark of genius to get us a goal. People seem to forget that actually followed an exciting performance against Walsall.

Am I depressed we got beat - and fallen further behind Shewsbury and Wigan - of course, but not ready to throw the towel in for automatic promotion yet like some other posters.

[DE.]

It's a bit of a fallacy to suggest yesterday's performance was significantly worse than the usual. It wasn't, the only difference was we didn't score the 2 or 3 goals that are always necessary for us to draw or win games. History shows that teams who outscore opponents but fail to sort out their defence inevitably end up faltering. Look at Newcastle in 96 or Liverpool in 09. There's a lot of see, hear, speak no evil on here regarding our defensive problems, but they are the difference between automatic and playoffs at this point in time. We need to get tighter at the back or we're facing the very realistic prospect of the playoff lottery. I know for some on here that, as well as missing out on promotion altogether, is now acceptable - but it shouldn't be. 

[blueboy3333]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Hopefully, even if we don't go up, I would hope that Mowbray is still here next season.  

Why?

[blueboy3333]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Completely disagree.  We are heading in the right direction and even if we don't go up this season I would much prefer to see Mowbray continue next season.  I still believe that promotion is achievable this season but I certainly wouldn't want to sack another manager and end up with another period of turmoil.  There are never any guarantees in football and if spending money counted for everything then Manchester United wouldn't have had such a barren period in the seventies and eighties.

If he can't get us up with this group of players he'll have no chance once Dack and Mulgrew etc are sold which is exactly what Mowbray has already said will happen in summer if we don't get promoted. Mowbray's budget is huge for this league. if he doesn't get promoted he has massively failed. He's admitted as much himself. Comparisons with Man Utd in the 70's and 80's are just crass. Liverpool spent and won bucketloads. Maybe Mau Utd just didn't appoint the right managers...