[Archived] Plymouth Away - 3rd February 2018

[Leonard Venkhater]

6 minutes ago, DE. said:

It's a bit of a fallacy to suggest yesterday's performance was significantly worse than the usual. It wasn't, the only difference was we didn't score the 2 or 3 goals that are always necessary for us to draw or win games. History shows that teams who outscore opponents but fail to sort out their defence inevitably end up faltering. Look at Newcastle in 96 or Liverpool in 09. There's a lot of see, hear, speak no evil on here regarding our defensive problems, but they are the difference between automatic and playoffs at this point in time. We need to get tighter at the back or we're facing the very realistic prospect of the playoff lottery. I know for some on here that, as well as missing out on promotion altogether, is now acceptable - but it shouldn't be. 

I think you have just  named what has been worrying me.

I know it sounds paradoxical, even ridiculous, but it almost feels like the wonderful run has papered over certain cracks!

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

I'm happy to be sat 3rd in the league with 17 wins under our belt and handily placed with 16 games to go.

The Shrewsbury comparison is a lazy way of trying to make a point, earlier in the season it was Bradford, even Oldham at one point, it doesn't matter what anyone else does, it's all about Blackburn Rovers for me. 

We don't have a god given right to walk the league due to our squad or budget, it never happened in 91 under Kenny, it never happened when we got relegated 3 times from the Premiership and won't happen this season either.

Everytime I see someone say we "dont have a god given right to walk the league" I feel like banging my head against a brick wall, no one is saying we do and I think its ignorant to use it as an argument.

The point that people validly are making, is that being in third, below Shrewsbury, obviously at the moment its hardly catastrophic because the gap is small and there is still a third of the season left, but we are slightly behind expectations.

Everyone is aware of how unpredictable football can be, but its missing the point to say we dont have a god given right. If Burnley were above Man City, Man City would be below expectations. If Eibar were above Barcelona, if Bologna were above Juventus, well you get the point. Every season teams overachieve and are praised, teams under achieve and are criticised.

The aim of the season, as quoted by Mowbray numerous times, is promotion. if he fails to achieve that, never mind all the spiel about having the right, he has already admitted and been quoted as saying what sort of manager would he be if that happened, an admittance of failure.

At the end of the day, its in the balance at the moment, could do either way. I dont think anyone has actually said sack Mowbray (you might get the odd nutter, just as on the flip side you get the odd chaddy who would agree with the manager if we was sat 24th with no points) but I feel like alot of people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill in regards to the fans reaction. Its a valid point to say, if we finished 3rd, we are underachieving, and to argue otherwise would be actually going against the words of the manager himself. If we dont go up Mowbray I feel wouldnt really deserve to keep his job, something hes admitted himself. Hopefully this is a hypothetical scenario, I am confident we can get a top 2 place.

[roversfan99]

27 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It is amazing that the world is still spinning.

There are too many matches still to play for so many posters to be writing off the season.

Any of the top 3 could lose key players to injury or suspension between now and the end of the season. The standard of refereeing is so poor - any of the teams could lose a key match down to a dodgy decision.

We had one match where the team played poorly - and unlike other matches one of our class players (like Dack (heavily marked) or Mulgrew (injured)) didn't provide a spark of genius to get us a goal. People seem to forget that actually followed an exciting performance against Walsall.

Am I depressed we got beat - and fallen further behind Shewsbury and Wigan - of course, but not ready to throw the towel in for automatic promotion yet like some other posters.

Not too sure anyone is throwing in any towels (if anyone is fair enough, thats crazy but its a minority saying it), people are just judging things, game by game, as it stands, hypothetically, which is all we can do. 

Its in the balance, people can only judge game by game, at the end of the day the majority would agree, if we go up in May, Mowbrays achieved what he set out to do, what he was quoted to do and what he was expected to do and there will be unanimous appreciation. If we dont, hes failed and even hes admitted, "what sort of manager would that make him?" 

[Blue blood]

If TM can't get us up with these players and budget he's not a very good manager.

Playoffs looking a lot more likely now Imo but we can still get promoted through that. Obviously automatic is much less risky! Whilst we are capable of some poor performances a la yesterday we're also capable of some stormers which would see us comfortably through the playoffs.

However end of the day it all rests on promotion and if TM doesn't deliver that then he has definitely underachieved and deserves to be canned. Still think promotion via playoffs is the most likely option though.

[USABlue]

22 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

No more unbeaten run stuff, wins are what is required from now until May. The question does need to be asked of Mowbray’s team selection and tactics at times. A good unbeaten run masked some of our issues that we all saw in certain games in amongst that.

The decision to take Graham off was staggering, top scorer, red hot form, only given 45 mins when 2-0 down? Then leaving Payne on the bench and once again finishing a game with 2 out and out strikers operating the wings? And as for evans being brought on well if anyone can offer me an opinion on how he planned to get 2 goals back with him on, i’ll duly listen.

Mind boggling to me too, only TM can tell us what he was thinking.

 

I think Stuart may have a real point in one of his posts.  The possibility that Mulgrew's captaincy is what is driving our victories in spite of TM. I just don't get what the manager was thinking yesterday.

[RevidgeBlue]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Elliott Bennett on twitter today

Despite the disappointment of yesterday's performance and result we must stay positive on the back of an outstanding run of games! At any level of sport 18 without loss is terrific. Time to get back on track next week. Enjoy your Sunday @rovers fans ✌?️⚽️

Well that makes me feel much better. Not.

My message to Mr Bennett would be to stop trotting out meaningless platitudes on twitter and make sure we produce the goods on the pitch between now and the end of the season.

[Leonard Venkhater]

32 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Well that makes me feel much better. Not.

My message to Mr Bennett would be to stop trotting out meaningless platitudes on twitter and make sure we produce the goods on the pitch between now and the end of the season.

Haha

And my message to "Mr Bennett" is that such tweets have delighted us long enough! Boom Tish

[USABlue]

22 hours ago, darrenrover said:

I'm personally gobsmacked that we'd previously gone 18 games unbeaten. 

Against Shrewsbury and first half against Fleetwood and in patches against the mighty Walsall, I thought perhaps this team may come good.

For me, forget the opposition: we have some great attacking options, just unleash them all every week.

You've signed 'em all Tony, fecking let 'em play and tear the opposition a new one home or away.

Our attacking play today was so one dimensional and predictably with no end result, Mowbray should be bloody embarrassed.

Spot on.

[USABlue]

21 hours ago, darrenrover said:

I agree, we should have signed a beast of a centre back in the window but didn't.

Plymouth today played very much like an away side and as at Ewood, we don't have any answers.

I found the substitutions bizarre in the extreme, Evans for Smallwood?, Nuttall and Samuel? Does anyone understand the logic attached to any of them?

I believe had Payne been introduced in a 3 with Dack and Armstrong sat behind Graham up top and Bennett pushing on with Bell and Nyambe pushing on also wide, with quick passing on the deck and to feet, we could have got something today.

We were rubbish however and I'm sorry but Mowbray is to blame.

In other words by going for it.  Like we all are saying, stop being so bloody scared of the opposition and let our players play.

[1864roverite]

Just got back and still very disappointed with the game yesterday.

thats football sore head and very tired need some good hot food and a chill from the 5 hour drive⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️

TM was right HE got it wrong from the off

[K-Hod]

Not been on here last night when I logged off as people were reading what they want to read instead of what was written in order to score points, or even to label posts ‘sad’ or ‘pathetic’. The irony.

Anyhow, this is how I see it- yesterday was a setback, but certainly one which we can recover from. All the comments I saw re Mowbray, were questioning his decision making, rather than legitimately calling for his head, as was suggested. 

Blackburn Rovers FC isn’t North Korea. If someone makes a mistake, they can be questioned. (I.E Tony Mowbray). If we are 2-0 down and Corry Evans comes on as substitute, then quite frankly, I’d be more concerned if this wasn’t questioned. Mowbray’s over cautiousness has cost us a few times when it hasn’t needed to be the case. 

Also, a line on the ‘entitlement’ that some on here think some fans feel like. Like another poster above, when I read this, I feel like banging my head against a brick wall. It’s not entitlement, it’s expectation, which Mowbray has in a lot of ways brought upon himself by spending more than any other managed in this league. 

If he doesn’t get us promoted this season, he’s failed, he’s admitted as much himself. 

Anyway, a long way to go yet. Hope everyone enjoys the rest of their Sunday.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Completely disagree.  We are heading in the right direction and even if we don't go up this season I would much prefer to see Mowbray continue next season.  I still believe that promotion is achievable this season but I certainly wouldn't want to sack another manager and end up with another period of turmoil.  There are never any guarantees in football and if spending money counted for everything then Manchester United wouldn't have had such a barren period in the seventies and eighties.

I don't  agree that changing the manager would automatically result in a period of turmoil. If TM was replaced at some point and the right man came in he would probably achieve results straight away. Look at Cook at Wigan who came in in the close season.

Conversely if the wrong man is in charge then leaving them in situ indefinitely generally doesnt make the situation better, it makes it worse.

[alcd]

18 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

No point in getting rid of Mowbray just now however he is underachieving in my eyes and is not the long term solution to get us back to where we want to be. I’d love hurst to come in. 

Downing has been terrible since he signed perm deal, all of the goals we have conceded have involved him making a mistake. That one against Walsall was awful, just watched the guy walk round him, very concerning 

I suspect he got a long contract because he'a nice guy and his dad is a former team mate of TM. Downing looks too slightly built and easily bullied to be a leader in the defence.

[neophox]

Have to say it was disappointing to Only draw against lowly Northampton at home a week ago who lost to Rochdale at home yesterday and then lose to Plymouth... we have to get things right against Oldham and go on attack! Hopefully we have Mulgrew back for that game.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Hopefully, even if we don't go up, I would hope that Mowbray is still here next season.  

Sorry Parson I liked this post by mstake as I don't actually agree. I don't even want to conremplate the opportunity we won't go up automatically at this stage and the mindset has to be that we need to go out all guns blazing and try and win each of the last 16 games and see where it takes us.That's not going to happen if we start picking our team to nullify the opposition again. We need to pick a team to try and blow the opposition off the pitch.

In reality however we've left ourselves an absolute mountain to climb to go up automatically so I think it's far too premature at this stage to say that Mowbray should stay no matter what happens. If we fail to go up then in bare terms his record will read that he was brought in to keep us up and failed and kept on with the best budget in the division to take us back up and failed again. 

So at the very least there would be a debate to be had imo and the remainder of the season will also be instructive i.e. do we regroup and make a real fist of it or tail off tamely and just limp into the play offs then lose them.

[neophox]

Agree that Downing should be dropped When Mulgrew is back. And Bell is our best defender at the moment with Mulgrew. Cant say Nyambe and Downing had played well last three games..

[neophox]

Shrewsbury plays against Plymouth on saturday and I think Plymouth can get a point in that game and Rovers to beat Oldham and its game on!

[Exiled in Toronto]

6 hours ago, arbitro said:

Having seen a replay of the first goal yesterday it confirmed what I thought at the time. Armstrong lazily is wrong side of the Plymouth player and fouls him. The free kick is chipped in to the far post and one of the big Plymouth centre backs wins the header and the second ball is smashed in by an unopposed Plymouth player on the penalty spot. Plymouth just didn't have to work hard to score that goal, three pieces of shocking defending in a matter of seconds handed it to them on a plate.

What made it worse for me Tony is Armstrong didn’t need to foul at all. The player was going toward to dugout and we had plenty back.

i could argue for both goals that the problem wasn’t that we didn’t have enough flare on the pitch, it was that we had too much of it.

[roversfan99]

Hope we make a few changes for next Saturday, Mulgrew and Lenihan in to be the partnership for the rest of the season, Payne in for past it Conway and Antonsson in over Armstrong in what is essentially a battle of 2 unnatural wingers, with the former far more efficient in front of goal to keep that place warm ahead of the returning Chapman.

Raya

Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Bell

Bennett Smallwood

Payne Dack Antonsson

Graham

 

[neophox]

Shrewsbury has

losses

Bradford home

Peterborough away

Blackburn away

Draws

Oxford home

Blackburn home

Walsall away

Plymouth away

Wigan away

Doncaster home

 

 

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

What made it worse for me Tony is Armstrong didn’t need to foul at all. The player was going toward to dugout and we had plenty back.

i could argue for both goals that the problem wasn’t that we didn’t have enough flare on the pitch, it was that we had too much of it.

I agree John. For the second we got done by a counter attack and the players were all over. I thought Downing was unlucky to slip but Williams seemed quite slow to react. We have been done over a few times recently in similar situations.

Armstrong has some decent assets but at times lacks what I would call football intelligence quite often making wrong decisions. It appeared to me that Mowbray played him down the middle as the second half wore on but he was overall ineffective.

[NinjaTattoo]

If we dont go up this season ( I dont think we will) Im gonna play devils advocate and say we need TM for another season as  I think a 2nd chance he will get it right.

Promotion to the championship we need a new manager and a couple of good additions.

 

Personally I think we wont go up, as mentioned before re Stuart undefeated doesn't mean we've won all games we have papered over the cracks and yes a good run of 16? games undefeated and still we haven't cemented 2nd.

I cant see us winning the majority of our games we will reach playoffs but going into those is a flip of a coin.

IF we promote we need a huge clear out starting with the manager.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, NinjaTattoo said:

If we dont go up this season ( I dont think we will) Im gonna play devils advocate and say we need TM for another season as  I think a 2nd chance he will get it right.

Promotion to the championship we need a new manager and a couple of good additions.

 

Personally I think we wont go up, as mentioned before re Stuart undefeated doesn't mean we've won all games we have papered over the cracks and yes a good run of 16? games undefeated and still we haven't cemented 2nd.

I cant see us winning the majority of our games we will reach playoffs but going into those is a flip of a coin.

IF we promote we need a huge clear out starting with the manager.

 

Plenty of nonsense in that post. Last line the cherry on the poo cake. 

The reason why we "didn't cement 2ND" after the 16 game unbeaten run,was prior to those 16 games we had a bad start to the season and as such we were playing catch up. If we go on a run like we did for the last 16 games,we will go up automatically. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Plenty of nonsense in that post. Last line the cherry on the poo cake. 

The reason why we "didn't cement 2ND" after the 16 game unbeaten run,was prior to those 16 games we had a bad start to the season and as such we were playing catch up. If we go on a run like we did for the last 16 games,we will go up automatically. 

It depends how many of the last 16 we draw. Six wins and ten draws won"t see us up. Twelve wins and a couple of draws with two defeats probably would.

Whose fault was it we had to recover from a bad start? Most people were blaming TM for overthinking it/ being too cautious/affording the opposition too much respect/failing to select Dack/Chapman etc etc.

[neophox]

Shrewsbury seems to play tight and win games 1-0 2-1... and seems to score winners in the last five mins of games... tactics spot on..