[Archived] Plymouth Away - 3rd February 2018

[Hasta]

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

How very diplomatic of you all to say that luck has no part to play in how well teams are doing. I however totally disagree. Even things like having lenihan injured for all of the season is unlucky. It’s a fine line at times and feel that Shrewsbury have had more run of the green than ourselves. As for a good team, if they went up they would be favourites to come straight back down. Not dissing them as they have done minor miracles however a good team, I’m not buying it. This is a poor league throughout and I’m including ourselves in that

Ok. In the context of this league they are a good team. 

That better?

Otherwise you might as well say "good team? Really? What would happen if they played Barca."

 

[Bbrovers2288]

Just now, Hasta said:

Ok. In the context of this league they are a good team. 

That better?

Otherwise you might as well say "good team? Really? What would happen if they played Barca."

 

They play to their capabilities, we play to our capabilities. Who wins the majority?

 

like the fellow poster said why are we bigging them up so much, at this moment in time they are bigger rivals than Burnley 

[Hasta]

1 minute ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

They play to their capabilities, we play to our capabilities. Who wins the majority?

 

like the fellow poster said why are we bigging them up so much, at this moment in time they are bigger rivals than Burnley 

I not bigging them up. 

I'm simply saying that so far they have been a good 'team' and not lucky. I agree that on paper we may have the better set of individuals. However we are 2 points behind and have played one game more. Therefore that is surely because they have been playing as a better 'team'.

As for your last sentence, I'm not bigging them up. I'm giving my opinion. I wish Burnley would crash and burn but at the moment they are performing as a good, well organised premier league team. Not admitting it because you dont like them is just stupid.

[blueboy3333]

49 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

How very diplomatic of you all to say that luck has no part to play in how well teams are doing. I however totally disagree. Even things like having lenihan injured for all of the season is unlucky. It’s a fine line at times and feel that Shrewsbury have had more run of the green than ourselves. As for a good team, if they went up they would be favourites to come straight back down. Not dissing them as they have done minor miracles however a good team, I’m not buying it. This is a poor league throughout and I’m including ourselves in that

If they weren't a good team they wouldn't be second after almost 30 matches. You may think they've had the rub of the green, they may think we have a lot bigger resources. I know which one of those is based in fact.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

We had some tough seasons in the Premier League after Hughes left, and being in a perennial relegation battle is never much fun, but I find it astonishing that anyone could enjoy being in the third division instead of dining at the top table in the richest and most competitive league in the world

Hands up all those who would rather be in the third division than in the Prem? 

Clearly the premier league but I didn't say that I would rather be a League 1 than premiership team did I? 

The Mark Hughes days has manager were great and so enjoyable. 

I always felt Hughes was one of us and I feel the same about Mowbray. others may not and that's fine cos we all have different opinions on these topics 

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

People are enjoying it more because we are winning more. It really is that simple. It will not last beyond this season. Beyond that it is our first season at this level in generations, big fish in a small pond, expecting to win every week, new clubs and grounds. I think that would ignite people's interest whether it was Mowbray or someone else in the dugout.

It doesn't mean we should enjoy being at this level. I'd sooner sit mid-table in the Championship for a few years than push for promotion in this league and keep missing out. The novelty factor of playing new teams and expecting to win every week will wear off if we stabilise at this level.

Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds were both virtually bankrupt which was the reason they ended up at this level and took a while to get out of it.

The fact that you are now making references to other 'fallen giants' who have ended up at this level through financial disaster or mismanagement and have failed to bounce back immediately suggests to me you are preparing yourself or your excuses in the event we fail - by pointing to other examples of clubs that didn't do it.

I don't think I've read a single post on this website in recent weeks from anyone suggesting he should be sacked at this stage. That technically means everyone is 'backing' him. Most people have the sense to realise you don't fire your manager in February when challenging for promotion. But what I have seen is a lot of people voicing legitimate concerns about our performances and form. At the moment it isn't good enough for automatic promotion. Play offs = lottery ticket with a 25% chance of a win. Mowbray himself has admitted things haven't been good enough after several games recently. 

I'm enjoying watching the players and some of the football we are playing at times is very good and pleasure to watch. 

I enjoyed seeing some of the teams and managers at this level but I would like to be back in Premier League as soon as possible. such an great entertainment league with some great players. 

I aint preparing for failure as I believe we will get promote from the league. said it all season and back Mowbray to do so. 

form? 1 defeat in 19 games with 11 wins and 7 draws is bad form? really? 

yes some performances haven't been great but we still manage to pick up a point or 3. 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

7 hours ago, Hasta said:

About as relevant come the end of the season as Plymouth 3 Rovers 1

I think it's Plymouth 4 Rovers 1.

Very relevant in that they are part of what the sum totals will be in May 

[AllRoverAsia]

6 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

If they weren't a good team they wouldn't be second after almost 30 matches. You may think they've had the rub of the green, they may think we have a lot bigger resources. I know which one of those is based in fact.

So are Rovers quite a good team? We are not actually that far off the apparently superb and consistent 90+ minuters of Shrewsbury.

[Mattyblue]

‘As a manager you beat yourself’

In the LT this morning.

At least he’s self aware...

 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

So are Rovers quite a good team? We are not actually that far off the apparently superb and consistent 90+ minuters of Shrewsbury.

You're looking for an argument that isn't there. Read the post I was responding and read my reply in context.

Rovers are obviously a good team with good players.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Teams with a good mentality score goals at the end of games and teams with a bad mentality concede at the end. It's a fact wether you like it or not. There's a reason why you play 90 minutes. 

[jim mk2]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

‘As a manager you beat yourself’

In the LT this morning.

At least he’s self aware...

 

 

Tony's never heard of the expression, "If it ain't broke don't fix it". 

Many decades ago, I spent a week training with a pro club (4th division).  In the run-up to Saturday's game I was expecting a team talk on how they were going to play it, a discussion at least on which opposition players to be aware of.

But there was nothing. The team trained as usual on the Friday and went out and played the game on the day like any amateur side. And they won. 

It seems to me Mowbray does overthink things and obviously worries about other teams rather than playing to our strengths.

 

[frosty]

10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

form? 1 defeat in 19 games with 11 wins and 7 draws is bad form? really? 

 

Depends how you look at it. 

This doesn't bear thinking about, but say we lose v Oldham, how would you look at it? 2 defeats in 20 would still be good going for any team at any level, right? But surely more relevant would be the fact that it'd be 4 points from 4 games, 3 of which were against teams scrapping for survival.

18 games unbeaten was a good effort, definitely. But it's over now and it can't keep being used to excuse poor results that happen between now and the end of the season. 

[JHRover]

19 minutes ago, frosty said:

Depends how you look at it. 

This doesn't bear thinking about, but say we lose v Oldham, how would you look at it? 2 defeats in 20 would still be good going for any team at any level, right? But surely more relevant would be the fact that it'd be 4 points from 4 games, 3 of which were against teams scrapping for survival.

18 games unbeaten was a good effort, definitely. But it's over now and it can't keep being used to excuse poor results that happen between now and the end of the season. 

I remember Huddersfield setting a League record 43 games unbeaten at this level a few years ago. Yet that wasn't enough for them and they couldn't make that step into the top 2. Soon after they decided to sack Lee Clark towards the back end of the season and brought in Grayson who got them through the play offs to finally secure promotion after 2-3 years of near misses.

Goes to show two things. One is that long unbeaten runs don't mean very much if you don't win enough of them. The other is that a managerial change, even late in the season at a critical point in the season isn't necessarily a bad thing, providing you know what you're doing and have some sort of plan, which admittedly probably isn't the case at Rovers.

Not putting forward a case to sack Mowbray but am just illustrating how it can be done.

[JHRover]

37 minutes ago, MGPensioner said:

It's like he is clearly protecting Smallwood from getting a suspension or at least until Evans is match fit. That is why he makes that substitution. Was the game plan from the off.

So Smallwood can't be playing 100% if the aim is to avoid picking up a booking.

And Evans can't be playing 100% because he isn't match fit but also so he doesn't break down.

 

I can understand his thinking but the problem is he needs to stop (over) thinking. Just go out 100% and win the bloody match.

If someone gets suspended or injured, deal with it then.

 

Mulgrew being out is massive. Think of the points he has rescued for us with his goals. Take those away and we would be nowhere near. Shows how important his quality is.

 

 

I am starting to think Wigan as champions. Rotherham second. Rovers and Shrews in play offs.

Way too much looking at Shrews and talking about a 3 horse race... Too early for that imo.

 

Too many injuries. Whether that's down to bad luck, bad fitness or bad recruitment it has been a major problem this season. When we consider the lengthy absences to key personnel - Antonsson, Lenihan, Chapman, Evans, Whittingham - all in theory at least quality players for this level who have been unable to contribute over the full season. Even Dack didn't get going until October as he wasn't fit enough when the season began. Graham didn't get up to speed until mid-season.

Call it sour grapes but at present we're missing Lenihan, Mulgrew, Antonsson and Chapman - all of whom would be starting or certainly playing were they fit. Take 4 big players out of Shrewsbury or Wigan and apply that to every game over the season and I very much doubt they'd be above us now.

[Lancaster Rover]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I remember Huddersfield setting a League record 43 games unbeaten at this level a few years ago. Yet that wasn't enough for them and they couldn't make that step into the top 2. Soon after they decided to sack Lee Clark towards the back end of the season and brought in Grayson who got them through the play offs to finally secure promotion after 2-3 years of near misses.

Goes to show two things. One is that long unbeaten runs don't mean very much if you don't win enough of them. The other is that a managerial change, even late in the season at a critical point in the season isn't necessarily a bad thing, providing you know what you're doing and have some sort of plan, which admittedly probably isn't the case at Rovers.

Not putting forward a case to sack Mowbray but am just illustrating how it can be done.

Clark was interviewed about the unbeaten run on Soccer Am, he said it became a massive weight on the teams shoulders. They became so obsessed with maintaining an unbeaten they forgot the importance of winning. 

[RoverCanada]

Regarding waiting on Shrewsbury to "slip up", in a way they already have to some extent, and that's part of why we're within shouting distance of them in the first place (with our recent run of form being the other reason!)

Shrewsbury had an unreal start to the year: 11 W 4 D 0 L - a 113 point pace. Since then, they've gone 7 W 3 D 4 L - a 79 point pace, which is decent (but I wouldn't be surprised if Shrewsbury fans are in a grouchy mood!). They're on pace for 97 points overall, but supposing they only keep up their current form, they'll hit 90 points. Still an impressive tally, but that's roughly what we're on pace for.

The drag of our tepid start certainly makes criticism of Mowbray fair, but there's only so much you can do when Wigan and Shrewsbury have plainly had amazing seasons so far. If Wigan and Shrewsbury do end up at 104 and 97 points respectively (which is the highest top-2 points combo in League One at least going back to 04-05, which is as far as I bothered to look...), and we end up at 91 points, is it fair to think Mowbray should resign/be fired when 91 points would have resulted in a top-2 finish in 7 of the past 10 League One seasons? I'd agree that automatic promotion was the goal to start the year, particularly given our spending relative to the rest of the league, but achieving that goal doesn't happen in a vacuum...

It may be a matter of one's perspective on "luck". Some hate to attribute anything to luck - it's a vague and easy scapegoat to pass the buck onto rather than engage in critical analysis. That's entirely fair.

However, if the top-3 does at end up as Wigan 104, Shrewsbury 97, Blackburn 91... personally, I may just have to 'doff my cap' to their incredible seasons and hope for the best in the playoffs...

[Gav]

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Tony's never heard of the expression, "If it ain't broke don't fix it". 

Many decades ago, I spent a week training with a pro club (4th division).  In the run-up to Saturday's game I was expecting a team talk on how they were going to play it, a discussion at least on which opposition players to be aware of.

But there was nothing. The team trained as usual on the Friday and went out and played the game on the day like any amateur side. And they won. 

It seems to me Mowbray does overthink things and obviously worries about other teams rather than playing to our strengths.

 

Mowbray only made 1 change at the weekend didn't he? And wasn't that forced? 

The side didn't turn up, I don't blame the manager for that on this occasion, same happened to United at Spurs midweek, it happens.

We're still very handily placed, I don't think we'll lose many between now and the end of the season and this is where the big squad, better players usually kicks in, time will tell.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I remember Huddersfield setting a League record 43 games unbeaten at this level a few years ago. Yet that wasn't enough for them and they couldn't make that step into the top 2. Soon after they decided to sack Lee Clark towards the back end of the season and brought in Grayson who got them through the play offs to finally secure promotion after 2-3 years of near misses.

Goes to show two things. One is that long unbeaten runs don't mean very much if you don't win enough of them. The other is that a managerial change, even late in the season at a critical point in the season isn't necessarily a bad thing, providing you know what you're doing and have some sort of plan, which admittedly probably isn't the case at Rovers.

Not putting forward a case to sack Mowbray but am just illustrating how it can be done.

I raised this a few weeks ago when the "unbeaten run" phrase was at peak usage. Obviously not losing is great, but to go so many games unbeaten and then still be 3rd with the potential to five points behind the second placed team tells its own story. Three draws is the equivalent of one win and two losses. 

We have to hope the "unbeaten run" tag being relinquished takes some pressure off the players/manager and they can play with a little more courage, because at this point it's going to take a bit of bravery and belief to make it to the finish line. It starts at the manager and needs to work its way down to the rest of the team. 

[G Somerset Rover]

28 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

However, if the top-3 does at end up as Wigan 104, Shrewsbury 97, Blackburn 91... personally, I may just have to 'doff my cap' to their incredible seasons and hope for the best in the playoffs...

Let's hope it doesn't come to it, but the play-offs concern me big time (as I imagine they would everyone on here). Given what's gone on at the club for the past 7.5 seasons, I wouldn't feel comfortable even getting to the final. You can see it now...a tense affair at Ewood in the second leg...defending deeper and deeper as we look to hang on to a slender lead....Corry Evans and the recalled Elliot Ward come on for Chapman and Graham as TM looks to see it out...

[oldjamfan1]

2 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Let's hope it doesn't come to it, but the play-offs concern me big time (as I imagine they would everyone on here). Given what's gone on at the club for the past 7.5 seasons, I wouldn't feel comfortable even getting to the final. You can see it now...a tense affair at Ewood in the second leg...defending deeper and deeper as we look to hang on to a slender lead....Corry Evans and the recalled Elliot Ward come on for Chapman and Graham as TM looks to see it out...

That might be a fair point to make about the semi final, but the final would be at Wembley.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Jesus, if we don't win Saturday, someone will start a relegation thread  

[JAL]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Jesus, if we don't win Saturday, someone will start a relegation thread  

At least Mowbray told us he was in fear of the mighty Argyle beforehand. 

Is their a connection between the agents at Argyle and Rovers that influenced this game ?

 

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, JAL said:

 

Is their a connection between the agents at Argyle and Rovers that influenced this game ?

 

Obsess with agents and agents? 

Agent work slow today or still upset your agency doesnt represent Nyambe?

[chaddyrovers]

Rotherham are still 9 points off us yet. Dont see them catching us tbh(hopefully). But Warne deserve some credit there for the job hes done there

[Gav]

30 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Let's hope it doesn't come to it, but the play-offs concern me big time (as I imagine they would everyone on here). Given what's gone on at the club for the past 7.5 seasons, I wouldn't feel comfortable even getting to the final. You can see it now...a tense affair at Ewood in the second leg...defending deeper and deeper as we look to hang on to a slender lead....Corry Evans and the recalled Elliot Ward come on for Chapman and Graham as TM looks to see it out...

Whilst everyone would rather go up automatically, the play offs are hardly a disaster after years of mid table mediocrity and relegation battles, but......

Crystal Palace play off semi final away 1989 - by a country mile my worst day supporting the club.