[Archived] Rovers v Oldham

[Blue blood]

also it's not even studying the opposition to capitalise on their weaknesses. I wouldn't mind so much if he was trying to exploit opposition weaknesses and personnel but it's all very negative and damage limitation from TM - made even more baffling by the squad at our disposal.

[tomphil]

33 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

also it's not even studying the opposition to capitalise on their weaknesses. I wouldn't mind so much if he was trying to exploit opposition weaknesses and personnel but it's all very negative and damage limitation from TM - made even more baffling by the squad at our disposal.

That's why I said you'd think they'd look at it and decide Oldhams right back spends a lot of his time further forwards so we'll exploit that space behind him not oh hell we better double up on him at home

[Bbrovers2288]

I’m done with nice guy but tactically clueless managers, wasn’t a fan of bowyer and I’m not a fan of Mowbray. Give me a ball buster anyday. I’m Scottish and Mowbray is considered a bit of a joke figure up here for his time at Celtic where he is widely regarded as their worst manager in about 20 years. I’d get either hurst or put out a call to Belgium and get Pearson in 

[Bbrovers2288]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/mar/25/tony-mowbray-celtic-manager-sacking?CMP=share_btn_link

 

read this about Mowbray from 8 years ago and it sounds all to familiar 

[Vinjay]

Manager gives players days off and promises they will come "racing out the blocks". Can you blame anyone criticising when you make statements like that? I doubt Mowbray does.

I wouldn't really rule out automatic promotion but what about the next promotion? Will Mowbray be capable of building towards that? I very much doubt it he's one of those managers who might get promoted to the PL once but never again. The owners should sack Mowbray in the summer promotion or not. Hand him an extra bonus or whatever if promoted no hard feelings. If they truly want promotion to the PL though they should start by hiring someone who's weaknesses aren't so evident. Others might think what do you expect that's so much better? Either someone who's been promoted from the Championship more than once or an up and coming young manager who might learn from any mistakes. Celtic's manager now is an ideal example and Rogers was even sacked by Reading wasn't he? Yet it wasn't long until he was deemed good enough to manage Liverpool and while it ended in his sacking that's a whole over level. There's a risk with hiring a young manager of course but with Mowbray the owners risk either being relegated straight back or midtable at best. Obviously I'm not saying Rogers would come but he's a prime example of how taking a risk on a young manager can work. 

I wonder how much "insight" Dunn offered before the game. 

[JacknOry]

9 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/mar/25/tony-mowbray-celtic-manager-sacking?CMP=share_btn_link

 

read this about Mowbray from 8 years ago and it sounds all to familiar 

This post from a fan beneath the article resonates for sure -

"Goodbye and good luck to a thoroughly decent man, but an awfully incompetent manager. I could spend the rest of the day chatting about how crap the team has been. We have more talent individually than we did last year, but not a single scrap of organization to build it. Not to mention the lopsided nature of the squad - 45 wingers, 275 strikers and just two vaguely-defensive midfielders, one of whom can't tackle and the other of whom can't pass."

[FGS5635]

Like all aspects of life and professions everyone can improve. There are many skills needed to be a good manager and to be fair to TM he does seem to have a good few of them skills.

Unfortunaley his weaknesses will be his undoing if he doesnt look to improve.

He needs to be a touch more cocky and arrogant. All top managers have that. A mindest of 'this is how we play, I dont care how you play, this is us, deal with it'

With nearly a full strength squad available now he has tough decisions to make week in and week out now. He has to be brave enough to upset players and pick the right team. He cant keep tinkering to try and keep everyone happy

 

[DE.]

I actually think Mowbray would be a decent manager for us if we got promoted. We are very unlikely, imo, to find ourselves challenging for the playoffs should we get back into the Championship. I can't imagine Venky's releasing enough funds to seriously compete and a lot of our current players are lower-end Championship/League 1 calibre. Barring an extremely unlikely squad overhaul I can't see anything other than a fight against relegation next season if we do go up. In that situation I actually think Mowbray might thrive, as unlike this season we actually would be the underdogs and his incessant worrying about the opposition and plans to counter their threats would actually help rather than hinder the team. If he had been in charge for the entirety of last season we'd probably still be in the Championship. 

Obviously the aim should be to get promoted no matter what division we're in, but realistically with Venky's in charge staying afloat in the Championship with Mowbray might be the best we can hope for. 

[Mark45]

On 2/12/2018 at 09:27, BiggusMickus said:

I'm not sure what you mean. But, the original point was that people on here are being hysterical, then moved to wider social media. I've read all of this and other threads and in my opinion, noone is being hysterical, so I think I understand the original statement pretty well. If the point was people in the stands reacted hysterically, then fair enough, I couldn't have an opinion as I wasn't there.

To answer your question, and without wanting to tread over well worn and tiresome ground, we all know the opinions on both sides - it's been done to death,  I will start to go to matches again once Venkys leave, regardless of league or position. But, recent circumstances in my personal life have added a caveat to that. My wife is 14 weeks pregnant with our first child. So, in 5 or 6 years time, when he / she (we don't know the sex yet) is old enough to go, I will be taking him / her, regardless of whether Venkys are here or not. Ideally, they won't be, but some things are more important.

Thankyou for explain.

a) you boycotting for chicken pluckers

wive wont let you go

German joke 

[Mark45]

Why do all Blackburn fans do hating on Tony? please do not say no, it is every post on page 34,33.

[perthblue02]

1 minute ago, Mark45 said:

Why do all Blackburn fans do hating on Tony? please do not say no, it is every post on page 34,33.

That is not hating , its frustration and criticism  . Search for the Kean threads that is hatred and justifiably so

[Mark45]

4 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

That is not hating , its frustration and criticism  . Search for the Kean threads that is hatred and justifiably so

Do every fan expect Tony to be top by 10 points clear? and 3rd by 3 points is frustration? Bayern fans think same in Germany.

[tomphil]

Start EVERY home game as if we are one nil down would be my advice !

Agree with the post above saying Mowbray would probably be ok in the Champ next season 'IF' we got up as it would simply be operation stay up no way in heaven is this squad good enough for anything above lower mid at that level unless some magic formula is found.

He has enough about him to grind and draw enough to stay up but he'd have to recruit very wisely in defence first otherwise forget it.

It's actually been an Owen Coyle signing that's continually pulled him and us out of it in this league at the opposite end of the pitch.

[JacknOry]

17 minutes ago, Mark45 said:

Do every fan expect Tony to be top by 10 points clear? and 3rd by 3 points is frustration? Bayern fans think same in Germany.

I don't think you understand the ramifications of not getting promoted this season.

[FGS5635]

The squad is good enough for promotion

The wage bill is good enough for promotion

The team spirit seems good enough for promotion

The facilities for the players are good enough for promotion

If we dont get promoted then TM will have to shoulder a good chunk of that. Thats not hate, thats just reality.

As is the way with modern football the difference between success and failure can be very small. If he finishes 2nd everyone says what a great job he has done. If we finish 3rd then he will get pelters

Some will agree, some will say thats harsh. The reality is thats football these days and TM knows that. 

[Mark45]

31 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

I don't think you understand the ramifications of not getting promoted this season.

Coreect - can explain please, if you have time?

[K-Hod]

59 minutes ago, Mark45 said:

Do every fan expect Tony to be top by 10 points clear? and 3rd by 3 points is frustration? Bayern fans think same in Germany.

We've spent the most in the league and have some of the best players in the league, so I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect us to go up automatically.

For goodness' sake, how many centre halves in this league have scored as many as Charlie Mulgrew?

[K-Hod]

3 minutes ago, Mark45 said:

Coreect - can explain please, if you have time?

It's quite simple, really. We're in loads of debt already and if we aren't promoted this season our debt situation gets even worse. I'm not trying to be rude, but are you new to Venky's ownership of our club?

[JHRover]

Financial ramifications. The forecast becomes a whole lot more worrying if we are here more than one season. Others have outlined the difference financially between being in the Championship and League One. It isn't pretty. More and more money on the debt mountain and more and more reliance on Venkys. Will they continue to fund losses for another year or two or look to reduce overheads as they did last time we missed promotion? We all know from recent experience what happens when Cheston embarks on his reductions - anyone can and probably will go with scant regard for on the pitch factors.

Fanbase ramifications. We've had decent crowds this season due to a feelgood factor after good transfer business and expectations of automatic promotion and new clubs and grounds to visit. That will be severely damaged and most or all of the good work done since last season will count for nothing.

Playing staff ramifications. I reckon a minimum of 10 first teamers will depart either through wanting to play at a higher level, contracts ending or loans ending. This rebuild lark rapidly becomes a demolition job when half the squad are on loan/out of contract/keen to leave. No way on this earth that Mulgrew, Dack, Graham, Lenihan etc. will fancy hanging around for another attempt if we can't do it this time round, even if we are willing and able to keep them. Then the 'transition' period starts again with us being told to be patient as a new squad is assembled, almost certainly of inferior quality.

Then there's just old fashioned percentages. When you look at the 'fallen giants' who have ended up here the majority have gone back up immediately. Those that haven't have languished or dropped further for several years - Pompey, Bradford, Coventry.

Essential that we go up and the alternative is concerning to say the least.

[rigger]

9 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

It's quite simple, really. We're in loads of debt already and if we aren't promoted this season our debt situation gets even worse. I'm not trying to be rude, but are you new to Venky's ownership of our club?

I think you will find that even if we are promoted our debt situation will get worse.

[FGS5635]

TBH if we dont get promtoed the debt will likely go down as half the squad will probably be sold

[JacknOry]

42 minutes ago, Mark45 said:

Coreect - can explain please, if you have time?

Actually - I don't have the time as I am at work and it would require an extensive post. Thankfully, JHRover and a few others have summarised more than aptly.

If you were following us back then - Simply look at our years in the Championship as a barometer. Our decline would most likely mirror that with any player of worth either wanting out or being sold to service the HUGE debt that we are now carrying. Brockhall would also be closer to being sold as we slowly become an average then poor League 1 side.

You are comparing our fans to that of Bayern Munich. They should rightfully expect to win too considering their spending power and basically being in the minority of one when it comes to challenging for the Bundesliga title.

If this were a properly run club with no debt to speak of and where our potential future didn't hang by a thread - I think you would find a more patient lot on here. Whats another season in League 1 in those circumstances?

 

[chaddyrovers]

No-one on here as a clue what would happen to the club if we didnt go up. Its all guess work by some people. 

The same people said players like Mulgrew, Lenihan, Graham and Conway would leave last summer but none done. 

And that Mulgrew and Dack would leave and yet again none done. We didnt have 1 bid for Dack in January as Mowbray said. 

[tomphil]

Maybe this Homburg fella should take a look at Arsenals forums if he wants to draw comparison to Bayern and expectation levels etc.

As has been said before most clubs with what we have at our disposal now would comfortably be in the top 2 come the seasons end, maybe even walk the league.

Far as we are aware up to now the V's have toed the line as to what's the minimum required so whilst there is no divine right and most teams won't roll over a conservative approach to games won't win plaudits when clear targets have been set publically by the manager himself.

[DE.]

Experience shows us that we tend to get worse season upon season with Venky's. Their first half season in the PL we finished 15th (mostly thanks to Allardyce and possibly the senior players taking control when Kean became overwhelmed), the second season we were relegated. First season in the Championship was a cluster, but from the next season onwards we continually slipped from 8th, to 9th, to 15th, to relegated. 

There's no reason to expect anything different here. We're still owned by the same fools who have proven time and time again that they do not learn from their mistakes. 

Will we sell Dack, Mulgrew, etc if we don't go up? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not, but I'm confident we would begin the descent once again and in a few years we'll be having the same arguments in League Two. The longer we stay in this division the more chance we have of dropping further.