[Archived] Portsmouth v Rovers

[JBiz]

5 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

We're not going to improve by employing a system that has been a disaster every time we have played it this season. And whatever system we play if we set up not to lose we'll struggle to win enough games to go up automatically anyway. Mowbray poo-ing himself and playing a full-back on the wing at home just because one-win-in-ten Oldham are in town just about sums up his mentality.

Question; if we started 352 like we finished on Saturday, would the score be the same?

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Our two best away performances were at Bradford and Scunthorpe when we won each of them 1-0. Two banks of four with two defensive minded central midfielders screening them. Smallwood, Evans and Travis are capable of doing this in my view. We have the wherewithal to do it, Mowbray chooses not to.

Both games had Evans and Smallwood as centre midfield pair. I don’t think other examples of those starting together are as positive.

[DE.]

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

All this talk about different formations and line-ups.

We're 31 games into the season. We should know by now, injuries permitting, who is going to be starting every game, and what formation we are going to be using, and yet none of us have the foggiest idea what is going to come next.

We should have a way of playing, a preferred starting 11 and a structure we are comfortable with and should follow that as far as we can. Yet is seems to me that everything is up in the air. Even Smallwood, who was previously a lynchpin of our side and the first name on the teamsheet, has now found himself taken off in his last 3 games.

There's a difference between having options and a deep, strong squad and then chopping and changing things on a match by match basis. I'm worried that this constant changing is causing us problems and preventing any consistency or momentum building.

I worry that the returns of Antonsson, Chapman and Whittingham, rather than being the icing on the cake and the final push we need to get the job done, will instead cause even more confusion, chopping and changing.

I've basically been thinking the same thing whilst reading the last couple of pages.

The simple truth is that if you stop Dack then we don't have much to offer. Thank goodness for Mulgrew's set pieces, but when you're so heavily reliant on two players then you really are walking a tightrope, especially when one of those is notoriously injury prone. Unfortunately no formation is going to change that.

[JBiz]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

As much as I agree with the theory behind Nyambe and Williams a back 3 of Nyambe, Mulgrew and Williams would frighten the life out of me. I don't think CM could organise them two for 90 minutes.

We played these three at the back for the second 45 minutes on Saturday didn’t we?..albeit in “kitchen sink mode.”

[Bigdoggsteel]

Does anyone else feel we have missed Antonnsson? He always seemed to pop up with a goal or an assist. I wonder will he come straight back into the team? I wouldn't be against it. 

We have a lot of players now, Mowbray has some tough calls to make. Even if that means leaving players completely out of the run in. Unless he changes the team every week, 3-4 players who themselves would expect to be playing won't be, a couple won't even make the bench

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Biz said:

We played these three at the back for the second 45 minutes on Saturday didn’t we?..albeit in “kitchen sink mode.”

Quite honestly for long periods of Saturday I couldn't tell you what we are playing. We did start the 2nd half with Nyambe, Williams and Mulgrew at centre half though. When I read the team sheet I thought we'd set up with 3 at the back but we didn't, or at least didn't seem like we did.

It was just a really odd team selection. It was almost as if Mowbray was in two minds and that was reflected in the players selected. Our 2nd half performance was very good though and could have quite easily won it, or on the other hand lost it too. It was a good half of football. That could probably be because they had 15 minutes to reflect on being 2-0 down to Oldham at home as opposed to an immediate change in system though.

[JHRover]

14 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Smallwood seems too concerned about being booked and it has seemingly affected how he plays. Just get booked and get it out of the way. We have players that can cover for him.

It certainly seems that way. If the threat of a suspension is affecting his performances and influencing the manager's decision to substitute him every week then it is ridiculous. He'd have been better getting booked weeks ago, wiping the slate clean, having a week off to rest and then come back fresh with a clean disciplinary record.

We were getting told last week after Plymouth that Corry Evans is now fit, fresh, raring to go for the remainder of the season. Yet he didn't feature vs Oldham. Surely if he is in good condition and ready to claim his place in the team then it would have been better to lose Smallwood now, let him serve his ban, so then Smallwood is back in business for the crucial last 15 games rather than continuing with this policy of trying to avoid him getting banned, which Is likely to be futile anyway.

[Gav]

I couldn't careless what formation he plays, or even which players he picks, as long as we come away from Fratton Park with at least a point.

Portsmouth have a very respectable home record and having been many times it's not an easy place to go.

1-1

[JHRover]

Just now, Gav said:

I couldn't careless what formation he plays, or even which players he picks, as long as we come away from Fratton Park with at least a point.

Portsmouth have a very respectable home record and having been many times it's not an easy place to go.

1-1

We need to win. Shrewsbury managed it not long ago, we need to do the same. Those who win promotion find ways of winning at 'tough' places and overcoming other teams decent records.

If we'd have picked up all 3 v Oldham and a point at Plymouth I might agree a point here would be ok. But we're now in deficit and will have to pick up additional points to make up for our failure on the last two weekends.

Lots of mentions that Saturday wasn't a disaster because Wigan and Shrewsbury lost. Well this time round Wigan have Blackpool at home and Shrewsbury are away at Fleetwood, so it is their turn to play strugglers whilst we have a tough one on paper, and if they do their job and we don't do ours then getting away with it on Saturday will count for nothing.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Gav said:

I couldn't careless what formation he plays, or even which players he picks, as long as we come away from Fratton Park with at least a point.

Portsmouth have a very respectable home record and having been many times it's not an easy place to go.

1-1

I'd take a draw too, but we really need to win. They won 5 on the spin at home recently but they've just hit a bit of a blip and haven't won in their last 3 at Fratton. One of the best home records in the league. It will be a really tough away game and it just shows how important it is to win your home games, something we've failed to do 3 times out of the last 5.

[Waggy76]

26 minutes ago, JHRover said:

It certainly seems that way. If the threat of a suspension is affecting his performances and influencing the manager's decision to substitute him every week then it is ridiculous. He'd have been better getting booked weeks ago, wiping the slate clean, having a week off to rest and then come back fresh with a clean disciplinary record.

We were getting told last week after Plymouth that Corry Evans is now fit, fresh, raring to go for the remainder of the season. Yet he didn't feature vs Oldham. Surely if he is in good condition and ready to claim his place in the team then it would have been better to lose Smallwood now, let him serve his ban, so then Smallwood is back in business for the crucial last 15 games rather than continuing with this policy of trying to avoid him getting banned, which Is likely to be futile anyway.

Corry Evans has only been raring to go for Northern Ireland ! I wouldnt even have him on the bench ....

[tomphil]

Whatever the starting formation is it needs to be balanced, defenders, strikers and midfielders on wings don't give you that there is zero fluidity on or off the ball. We've got away with it before but it's been sussed out now, yes we have no flying wingers yet and the only wide midfielders are Conway and Bennett so maybe it's time to go back to basics for the first half of a tricky away game if he isn't going to go for it which is very unlikely.

Two banks of four to start with the strikers deeper and defending from the front, let the others of the leash sdcond half if need be. 

[tomphil]

Just now, Waggy76 said:

Corry Evans has only been raring to go for Northern Ireland ! I wouldnt even have him on the bench ....

When there is another international looming he'll be involved for a few games the suddenly rested again the week before you just watch, that seems to be the pattern.

[JamieUK]

Samuel

Armstrong Payne Bennett

 Smallwood Travis

Bell Mulgrew Lennihan Caddis

Raya

Time for a shake up. Been far below where we should be recently - complacency / tiredness?

I think Nyambe needs to come out the firing line - Caddis is a bit more solid and makes up for an attacking threat on the other side.

Bennett looked fairly decent on the right on Saturday - kept getting space and is a position more familiar to him. I wouldn't drop Payne and I think Armstrong deserves a start after his goal.

Samuel in for Graham for a bit more running. Dack out as he's been pretty ineffectual compared to his own standards the last few games.

I don't expect to see that team but I certainly expect some changes after Saturday.

 

[Gav]

11 minutes ago, tomphil said:

When there is another international looming he'll be involved for a few games the suddenly rested again the week before you just watch, that seems to be the pattern.

It's as blatant as that as well tomphil, it can't simply be coincidence can it?

Giggs used to be the other way around for Wales, injured before any friendly matches but always turned out for UTD 2 days later, now he's the manager!!

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, JamieUK said:

Samuel

Armstrong Payne Bennett

 Smallwood Travis

Bell Mulgrew Lennihan Caddis

Raya

Time for a shake up. Been far below where we should be recently - complacency / tiredness?

I think Nyambe needs to come out the firing line - Caddis is a bit more solid and makes up for an attacking threat on the other side.

Bennett looked fairly decent on the right on Saturday - kept getting space and is a position more familiar to him. I wouldn't drop Payne and I think Armstrong deserves a start after his goal.

Samuel in for Graham for a bit more running. Dack out as he's been pretty ineffectual compared to his own standards the last few games.

I don't expect to see that team but I certainly expect some changes after Saturday.

 

I wouldn't be against that team at all. Big call on Dack, but Payne deserves a run in his natural position and Dack would be a huge player to be able to bring on

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

4-2-3-1 saw us through 18 games without a loss. To suddenly change the formation after two less than pleasing results is a bit of an overreaction. Especially when you are advocating changing the formation to one where we've had a 0% win rate playing it.

Chaddy knows best though

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Question; if we started 352 like we finished on Saturday, would the score be the same?

Possibly not, but I think it's a mentality thing as much as a formation thing with Mowbray. His mentality, as he himself has said, is to stay in the game from the start, control possession and not give anything away i.e. cautious. The problem with that is, as we saw Saturday, that we are on the back foot from the start and if a team takes it to us we wobble because we don't have the players to defend.  That's why it's always slightly disingenuous (and contrary to his 'honest guy' persona) when he spouts off every pre-match about us going out and being on the front-foot. It rarely happens because he simply doesn't play that way. Is that a fair assessment?

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Possibly not, but I think it's a mentality thing as much as a formation thing with Mowbray. His mentality, as he himself has said, is to stay in the game from the start, control possession and not give anything away i.e. cautious. The problem with that is, as we saw Saturday, that we are on the back foot from the start and if a team takes it to us we wobble because we don't have the players to defend.  That's why it's always slightly disingenuous (and contrary to his 'honest guy' persona) when he spouts off every pre-match about us going out and being on the front-foot. It rarely happens because he simply doesn't play that way. Is that a fair assessment?

On Mowbray; there is much the bloke is getting correct alongside the mistakes and I don’t want to change, or see any priority in discussing a change to the manager until May, and by his own admission, he will be gone if we aren’t promoted.

As for caution; perhaps a more cautious set up would stop us conceding counter attack goals? More cautious and pragmatic training and set piece exercises might tighten us up? On Saturday, both came from our own attacks petering out and a straight ball forward. That’s not conceding goals through a cautious attitude, it’s precisely the opposite.

Perhaps you mean, at times we are too “slow” in possession? If so, I’d agree. I think this comes from a lack of movement up top, against less adventurous, more organised and physical teams in this division. 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Biz said:

On Mowbray; there is much the bloke is getting correct alongside the mistakes and I don’t want to change, or see any priority in discussing a change to the manager until May, and by his own admission, he will be gone if we aren’t promoted.

As for caution; perhaps a more cautious set up would stop us conceding counter attack goals? More cautious and pragmatic training and set piece exercises might tighten us up? On Saturday, both came from our own attacks petering out and a straight ball forward. That’s not conceding goals through a cautious attitude, it’s precisely the opposite.

Perhaps you mean, at times we are too “slow” in possession? If so, I’d agree. I think this comes from a lack of movement up top, against less adventurous, more organised and physical teams in this division. 

 

I think the lack of movement may be down to Graham. He is a great striker, but compared to some like Armstrong I am not sure he asks enough questions of defenders. Being on his own upfront doesn't help. As we have seen, when Dack is marked out of it, we are predictable. Leads me to wonder would we be better with 2 upfront or even playing Armstrong there with his pace  

The issues defensively is because we don't have an aggressive and dominant centre half, simple as that really. Hence why 3 centre halves with 2 wing backs may be the answer....

[K-Hod]

I'd agree with Biz on us being too slow in possession. We don't seem to have the urgency until much later on in games.

Just before we scored the free kick on Saturday I posted in the match thread that my mate observed that we were playing like we were 2-0 up.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

It's as blatant as that as well tomphil, it can't simply be coincidence can it?

Giggs used to be the other way around for Wales, injured before any friendly matches but always turned out for UTD 2 days later, now he's the manager!!

It 'seems' that way doesn't it although someone may quote some facts saying it isn't but there is a few times he's seemed to be managed in conjunction with his international sides fixtures down recent years.

Some of it might be put down to the genteel environment of other managers just hoping that's the way to get the best out of him so maybe it'll change now but it really would be nice for Rovers to get a run of decent games out of this guy.

[blueboy3333]

17 minutes ago, Biz said:

On Mowbray; there is much the bloke is getting correct alongside the mistakes and I don’t want to change, or see any priority in discussing a change to the manager until May, and by his own admission, he will be gone if we aren’t promoted.

As for caution; perhaps a more cautious set up would stop us conceding counter attack goals? More cautious and pragmatic training and set piece exercises might tighten us up? On Saturday, both came from our own attacks petering out and a straight ball forward. That’s not conceding goals through a cautious attitude, it’s precisely the opposite.

Perhaps you mean, at times we are too “slow” in possession? If so, I’d agree. I think this comes from a lack of movement up top, against less adventurous, more organised and physical teams in this division. 

 

I know what i mean.  We're playing 1 up front, a full back on the wing and midfielders that apart from Dack rarely get in the box. That's cautious. The passing it slowly  across the pitch thing has happened all season. It was quite a revelation seeing Travis pick up the ball in midfield and look to pass forward and drive into the box. Mowbray will soon knock that out of him!

 

[Cherry Blue]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I know what i mean.  We're playing 1 up front, a full back on the wing and midfielders that apart from Dack rarely get in the box. That's cautious. The passing it slowly  across the pitch thing has happened all season. It was quite a revelation seeing Travis pick up the ball in midfield and look to pass forward and drive into the box. Mowbray will soon knock that out of him!

 

It was good to see Travis on the pitch at HT practicing that move with a trainer. Totally committed to the blue & white cause.

[tomphil]

According to Kevin Gallaghers observations the team was set up to counter attack at home from the off on Saturday.  Oldham and their fans turned up with a sod it lets just have a go attitude probably expecting to be under the cosh straight away. Our lot almost followed the script from the first game at their gaff with another no show.

Why hasn't anything been learned ?  Why not the same approach as the Shrewsbury game where it was try and get on top of them straight away ?

 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, JamieUK said:

Samuel

Armstrong Payne Bennett

 Smallwood Travis

Bell Mulgrew Lennihan Caddis

Raya

Time for a shake up. Been far below where we should be recently - complacency / tiredness?

I think Nyambe needs to come out the firing line - Caddis is a bit more solid and makes up for an attacking threat on the other side.

Bennett looked fairly decent on the right on Saturday - kept getting space and is a position more familiar to him. I wouldn't drop Payne and I think Armstrong deserves a start after his goal.

Samuel in for Graham for a bit more running. Dack out as he's been pretty ineffectual compared to his own standards the last few games.

I don't expect to see that team but I certainly expect some changes after Saturday.

 

Caddis for Nyambe? Nyambe's made a couple of mistakes recently but to suggest he drop out because caddis offers more of an attacking threat is just wrong. Nyambe was the only one trying to get forward 1st half saturday, he's like Ronaldo compared to Caddis. And if we dropped defenders because they made a defensive blunder them Mulgrew would rarely get a game.