[Archived] Walsall v Rovers

[Bigdoggsteel]

This lot have been on a good run since we bet them. They have won their last 3 games at home. Not going to be easy, but we are top of the league now,. so lets play like it.

 

[AggyBlue]

I'll go with that starting eleven even though I have reservations regarding Bell.

I'd like to see the three behind Graham be more fluid and switch positions throughout the game.

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, AggyBlue said:

I'll go with that starting eleven even though I have reservations regarding Bell.

I'd like to see the three behind Graham be more fluid and switch positions throughout the game.

On paper Payne , Dack Armstrong and Graham are a lethal looking League 1 combination. If the 4 of them click defenders will be chasing shadows 

[K-Hod]

I agree with Aggy's comments re Bell. I felt he looked blinding on his debut, but has looked shaky whenever I've seen him since. (Admittedly, he's been played out of position).

[Dreams of 1995]

Bell has been no worse than Williams has been all season. Out of the two you'd have Bell every day of the week.

[blueboy3333]

I don't understand the criticism of Williams. His distribution isn't the best but he's defended well for the most part in the games I've seen him. We'll only see if Bell is any better defensively once he's had a run of games at left back. One thing is sure is that Bell is not a winger/midfieder.

[OJRovers]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

On paper Payne , Dack Armstrong and Graham are a lethal looking League 1 combination. If the 4 of them click defenders will be chasing shadows 

Throw in Chapman too and it would give the opposition a lot to think about!

4-1-5-1

Nyambe Lenni Mulgrew Williams

Smallwood

Chapman Payne Dack Armstrong

Graham

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I don't understand the criticism of Williams. His distribution isn't the best but he's defended well for the most part in the games I've seen him.

I thought the criticism of Williams was unfair earlier in the season, but he does seem to have taken a dip in form since Christmas; he gives the ball away very easily in the last month or so, and there are a good few games in that period where I vividly remember him being the most liable player on the pitch (save for Evans on Monday night). I think he needs a game or on the bench, and I think Bell has shown enough strength in defending, and some good forays forward, to warrant a starting spot at left-back - as and when Mowbray's coin toss decides we're going to play four at the back.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, OJRovers said:

4-1-5-1

Is that part of the EFL changes too?

[Oldgregg86]

14 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I don't understand the criticism of Williams. His distribution isn't the best but he's defended well for the most part in the games I've seen him. We'll only see if Bell is any better defensively once he's had a run of games at left back. One thing is sure is that Bell is not a winger/midfieder.

I agree on Williams. he's not the best but doesn't stand out as poor consistenty and has defensively done ok. We need a new scapegoat now Jason's gone to big club so can we please stick to making Cory Evans the prime candidate for that role. He is consistently bad and his hair is nowhere near as cool as Derek's. I would be more confident with Williams at centre back than downing, however I would like bell to have a good run of games at left back starting at Walsall tomorrow . With darragh back he would be benched for me but not down to him being poor more due to lenihan being fit and bell looking the more threating going forward and I would be equally happy with him being recalled or brought on. He's good back up unlike having ward on the bench at the start of the season.

[JacknOry]

Just now, OJRovers said:

Throw in Chapman too and it would give the opposition a lot to think about!

4-1-5-1

Nyambe Lenni Mulgrew Williams

Smallwood

Chapman Payne Dack Armstrong

Graham

That is certainly a scary looking lineup.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, OnePhilT said:

I thought the criticism of Williams was unfair earlier in the season, but he does seem to have taken a dip in form since Christmas; he gives the ball away very easily in the last month or so, and there are a good few games in that period where I vividly remember him being the most liable player on the pitch (save for Evans on Monday night). I think he needs a game or on the bench, and I think Bell has shown enough strength in defending, and some good forays forward, to warrant a starting spot at left-back - as and when Mowbray's coin toss decides we're going to play four at the back.

I didn't see Monday night's game so I can't comment but player for player I'd bet Williams has given the least amount of goals away of anyone in the back 4 this season (and Raya) through individual errors. Dropping the least error-prone in a back 4 that has hardly covered itself in glory this season wouldn't be the wisest move, especially away from home to a team on form.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, OJRovers said:

Throw in Chapman too and it would give the opposition a lot to think about!

4-1-5-1

Nyambe Lenni Mulgrew Williams

Smallwood

Chapman Payne Dack Armstrong

Graham

Nice. You could even go for the massively under utilized 4-2-4 

                      Raya

Nyambe Lenni Mulgrew Williams

           Smallwood Bennett

Chapman Dack Armstrong Payne

or a slight variation of 

                      Raya

Nyambe Lenni Mulgrew Williams

           Smallwood Bennett

                        Dack

     Chapman Armstrong Payne

I am very aroused!!

That's it, I'm downloading Football manager later  

 

 

[Dreams of 1995]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I didn't see Monday night's game so I can't comment but player for player I'd bet Williams has given the least amount of goals away of anyone in the back 4 this season (and Raya) through individual errors. Dropping the least error-prone in a back 4 that has hardly covered itself in glory this season wouldn't be the wisest move, especially away from home to a team on form.

I'd take that bet any day of the week. He definitely isn't the least error-prone.

As an individual error being the main cause of a goal it's hard to definitively say without watching every single conceded but Williams has contributed to us conceding quite a few times this season. A fairer comparison would be how many goals have been created from the oppositions right.

Unfortunately we don't have OptaStats on here but, what we can say for definite is, is that Williams is the poorest defender at the club in terms of positional awareness (maybe the argument is he a CB or a LB comes to his defence here), he's the 2nd poorest in terms of distribution (Nyambe first), he's not a great header of the ball and he isn't the best going forward either.

He gives the ball away more so than most. There's also been countless times this season we could have gathered some momentum only for him to check back in and pass back. Maybe he is out of position at left back but he certainly isn't our most reliable defender and 100% is weaker going forward than Bell is.

[Guest]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I didn't see Monday night's game so I can't comment but player for player I'd bet Williams has given the least amount of goals away of anyone in the back 4 this season (and Raya) through individual errors. Dropping the least error-prone in a back 4 that has hardly covered itself in glory this season wouldn't be the wisest move, especially away from home to a team on form.

I can't recall a time that Williams was directly to blame for a goal, either, but by the same measure, we need even our defensive players to try to make things happen. Mulgrew is to blame for a few goals conceded this season, but his offensive contribution has made that completely insignificant. Of course, it helps that Mulgrew is a set-piece specialist, but at least he has that in his locker, as well as an eye for moving forward and being reasonably accurate with long passes. Similarly, Nyambe is also to blame directly for a few goals conceded, but going forward, he really does offer more than Williams.

I think Bell has shown that he deserves his chance at left-back. It does feel like Bell coming into the team has taken the wind out of Williams.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'd take that bet any day of the week. He definitely isn't the least error-prone.

As an individual error being the main cause of a goal it's hard to definitively say without watching every single conceded but Williams has contributed to us conceding quite a few times this season. A fairer comparison would be how many goals have been created from the oppositions right.

Unfortunately we don't have OptaStats on here but, what we can say for definite is, is that Williams is the poorest defender at the club in terms of positional awareness (maybe the argument is he a CB or a LB comes to his defence here), he's the 2nd poorest in terms of distribution (Nyambe first), he's not a great header of the ball and he isn't the best going forward either.

He gives the ball away more so than most. There's also been countless times this season we could have gathered some momentum only for him to check back in and pass back. Maybe he is out of position at left back but he certainly isn't our most reliable defender and 100% is weaker going forward than Bell is.

There's a lot of conjecture in there. I can remember glaring errors from Mulgrew, Downing, Raya, and Nyambe that have resulted in goals against. I genuinely can't remember any from Williams. Refresh my memory?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, OnePhilT said:

I can't recall a time that Williams was directly to blame for a goal, either, but by the same measure, we need even our defensive players to try to make things happen. Mulgrew is to blame for a few goals conceded this season, but his offensive contribution has made that completely insignificant. Of course, it helps that Mulgrew is a set-piece specialist, but at least he has that in his locker, as well as an eye for moving forward and being reasonably accurate with long passes. Similarly, Nyambe is also to blame directly for a few goals conceded, but going forward, he really does offer more than Williams.

I think Bell has shown that he deserves his chance at left-back. It does feel like Bell coming into the team has taken the wind out of Williams.

We need our defenders to defend because so far this season we haven't been very good at it. We have an embarrassment of riches going forward. Those are the players who need to do their jobs. If Mowbray is relying on his full back then we're in trouble, or he's got his formations wrong again. Mulgrew is a match-winner but if he was giving goals away every week he'd soon be dropped.

As I was only talking about the defensive part of the game I will stand by the assertion that Williams is the least error-prone in the team, because he is. You just don't drop those players when you rarely concede a clean sheet anyway. If we could keep more clean sheets we'd be unstoppable because we always score. with or without Bell playing left back.

 

[Gav]

38 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I don't understand the criticism of Williams. His distribution isn't the best but he's defended well for the most part in the games I've seen him. We'll only see if Bell is any better defensively once he's had a run of games at left back. One thing is sure is that Bell is not a winger/midfieder.

I often wonder if people watch the same games as me, Williams without being spectacular is a good honest defender, does very little wrong, just what we need.

Bell on the other hand offers something different but will take time to settle, but eventually we'll see a very good player, think he'll prove to be another shrewd buy. 

Bleedin cold down here this morning, going to be worse still tonight, lets hope they've covered the pitch. 

[JBiz]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

I often wonder if people watch the same games as me, Williams without being spectacular is a good honest defender, does very little wrong, just what we need.

Bell on the other hand offers something different but will take time to settle, but eventually we'll see a very good player, think he'll prove to be another shrewd buy. 

Bleedin cold down here this morning, going to be worse still tonight, lets hope they've covered the pitch. 

I agree Gav, I think williams has actually looked more suited to CB, aka I think he’s improved in the previous couple of months.

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Gav said:

I often wonder if people watch the same games as me, Williams without being spectacular is a good honest defender, does very little wrong, just what we need.

No need to wonder, @Gav; I do, every game, I can assure you.

What does "good honest defender" mean? Sounds a bit vague to me, and a nice way of calling him average. Promotion contenders, particularly those going for the automatics, can't really get by with average, can they? Williams has made a terrible habit recently of giving the ball away, and panicking, putting us in tight spots at the back - his confidence seems shot, to me, and despite interviews and fluff words, I think Bell coming in has something to do with that. There are just some things that he's done often, recently, that he wasn't doing earlier in the season. He may not be directly at fault for certain goals, but he's certainly been a big part of the problems leading up to them. Error-prone, he certainly is!

I hope he gets his form back, because he's shown that he can be a decent player for us, but something isn't right with him at the moment. I think a couple of games out of the picture are needed.

Edit: Perhaps my brain is wired backwards... Seems like a few think he's improved the last couple of months, while I think he's got worse. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, OnePhilT said:

. He may not be directly at fault for certain goals, but he's certainly been a big part of the problems leading up to them. Error-prone, he certainly is!

Gav would call that bunkum, and he'd be right. It's also very vague and lacks any examples of when it has happened. Apart from that...

[AggyBlue]

2 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

Edit: Perhaps my brain is wired backwards... Seems like a few think he's improved the last couple of months, while I think he's got worse. 

Some people only see what they want to see.

I think Williams is worthy of keeping his place in the team.

[jim mk2]

Williams was poor last season, slow mentally and physically and frequently caught out of position.  Alot of clubs targeted him as they saw him as a weak link.  I thought he was one of the worst left backs I'd seen in a Rovers shift. He''s been much better this season, probably because he's playing a lower level and the opposition aren't as good. He shouldn't be a regular starter next season if we go up 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

It's also very vague and lacks any examples of when it has happened.

One prime example is the Fleetwood goal... check out the awkward pass back from Williams to Mulgrew, before was forced to make that pass back to Raya without much thinking time.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, OnePhilT said:

One prime example is the Fleetwood goal... check out the awkward pass back from Williams to Mulgrew, before was forced to make that pass back to Raya without much thinking time.

That had no bearing on the direction of  Mulgrew's back pass. If that's all you've got then the defence rests and the recommends the jury find Williams not guilty of all charges m'lud.