[Archived] THE BATTLE FOR PROMOTION....WON.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Pathetic renaming of the thread and embarrassing reactions from some fans on here. 

I wonder do Wigan fans have a surrender of the title thread following their poor results lately? Or due to the fact we have made up around 12 points on them and still have a chance to win the league on the last day of the season? You should be ashamed of yourselves 

[Paul]

23 minutes ago, 47er said:

So picking Caddis over Travis was a good move?

As I said in the first line of my post "Stuart I’ve no desire to get involved in the discussion over the rights and wrongs of Mowbray’s choices or how it reflects on his attitude ot the club’s ambition etc. Everyone will have their own view, I’m not questioning any of them."

[jim mk2]

 

From a playing point of view,  I'd have loved to see some of our Under-23s given a chance in the first team instead of no-hopers like Caddis and fringe players like Samuel and Downing who clearly won't be good enough in the Championship.

Assuming these lads  have the ability   (and alot of people seem to think they do), when are they going to get a chance ?

[47er]

Just now, Paul said:

As I said in the first line of my post "Stuart I’ve no desire to get involved in the discussion over the rights and wrongs of Mowbray’s choices or how it reflects on his attitude ot the club’s ambition etc. Everyone will have their own view, I’m not questioning any of them."

Why then in that same post did you go on to say "My one criticism of the team selection is to start Samuel ahead of Graham." Is that not involvement in the discussion over Mowbray's choices?Further since you only have one criticism then you are automatically endorsing Caddis over Travis. 

I was asking you why? This is a discussion forum after all.

[47er]

28 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Bit of a shame the 1st place trophy is probably out of reach, but we are promoted. That is the main objective, and anyone raging and calling out the squad should go and support Barca, Man City or Real Madrid.

Will people find an excuse to be angry if we finish 2nd again next season?

No. Unless of course, with 2 games to go and us with a chance of the Championship Championship () the manager doesn't pick his strongest possible side.

And please name the straw men who are angry because we finished 2nd.

[47er]

44 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

So basically, what you are saying is that it's OK to play injured players or is it that you know the state of the injuries better than the manager and the medical department at Brockhall and know they are fit to play?

I'd be confident he isn't.

[imy9]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Point the finger, and make all the “correlations” you like but that actually makes it worse. Wigan’s slip up should have let us in and hasn’t.

Some people on here seem glad that we we lost to Charlton. Promotion AND the opportunity to open old wounds and score points. Personally I’m gutted every time we lose - especially when it is self-inflicted.

Thanks again Tony.

Thank you Tony for reuniting the majority of the fan base.

Thank you Tony but building a squad that has won promotion.

Thank you Tony for our club record 13 away wins this season.

Thank you Tony for the amazing 1 defeat in 31. 

Thank you Tony for getting us Bradley Dack- the league 1 player of the year.

Thank you Tony for being honest and genuine and actually caring about our club.

But how dare you have injured players that you are not willing to risk for a game when promotion is sealed.

I honestly think some people have forgotten who own us and what has happened to us in the last few years years.  

We lose the first three games of the season and I can already see people gleefully ready to shout ‘Tony out’- sad.

[Paul]

Just now, 47er said:

Why then in that same post did you go on to say "My one criticism of the team selection is to start Samuel ahead of Graham." Is that not involvement in the discussion over Mowbray's choices?Further since you only have one criticism then you are automatically endorsing Caddis over Travis. 

I was asking you why? This is a discussion forum after all.

Because you are now underlining why I don't want to get involved in the debate. I've stated my view on Saturday in regards to the team and the day overall. I thought that worthwhile as from what I experienced it reflects the general view amongst the travelling support I spoke to. What I do not feel worthwhile contributing to is the circular debate which has been going on here since the final whistle. That's why I don't want to get involved. It's going nowhere in my view.

[47er]

Just now, Paul said:

Because you are now underlining why I don't want to get involved in the debate. I've stated my view on Saturday in regards to the team and the day overall. I thought that worthwhile as from what I experienced it reflects the general view amongst the travelling support I spoke to. What I do not feel worthwhile contributing to is the circular debate which has been going on here since the final whistle. That's why I don't want to get involved. It's going nowhere in my view.

As  I said, you did get involved, therefore I've asked you a reasonable question. Ever considered politics?

[Paul]

Just now, 47er said:

As  I said, you did get involved, therefore I've asked you a reasonable question. Ever considered politics?

I'll happily accept your view that I got involved if that satisfies you. I expressed a view, I chose not to engage with anyone who offered a different view. I thought for the benefit of those not able to travel to The Valley it would be helpful to hear the experience of a travelling supporter.

As I have said you are underlining the reasons why I chose not to involve myself in the debate. I know exactly where this is going and I do not wish to be involved. I'd ask you to respect that stance.

[AllRoverAsia]

54 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not the personnel, its the attitude and quotes during the week that have shown total disregard. People arent saying that injured players should play. 

Well said.

It is quite usual on here for those supporting a hopeless cause or just plain wrong to use diversionary tactics to hide behind.

[roversfan99]

53 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Bit of a shame the 1st place trophy is probably out of reach, but we are promoted. That is the main objective, and anyone raging and calling out the squad should go and support Barca, Man City or Real Madrid.

Will people find an excuse to be angry if we finish 2nd again next season?

What a pathetic overreaction.

Are fans of them 3 clubs the only sets of fans who are able to hope that their teams can win silverware without being mocked?

The reason that people are a bit upset is because Mowbray came out and implied that he doesnt care about winning the League. Fans who are dissapointed not to win the league, whilst acknowledging and celebrating promotion, are not being unreasonable.

47 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Pathetic renaming of the thread and embarrassing reactions from some fans on here. 

I wonder do Wigan fans have a surrender of the title thread following their poor results lately? Or due to the fact we have made up around 12 points on them and still have a chance to win the league on the last day of the season? You should be ashamed of yourselves 

Its not about the poor results! No one is saying anything but Promotion is a thing to be celebrated and cherished. Its about the manager implying ahead of the last 2 games that he doesnt care about the title.

11 minutes ago, imy9 said:

Thank you Tony for reuniting the majority of the fan base.

Thank you Tony but building a squad that has won promotion.

Thank you Tony for our club record 13 away wins this season.

Thank you Tony for the amazing 1 defeat in 31. 

Thank you Tony for getting us Bradley Dack- the league 1 player of the year.

Thank you Tony for being honest and genuine and actually caring about our club.

But how dare you have injured players that you are not willing to risk for a game when promotion is sealed.

I honestly think some people have forgotten who own us and what has happened to us in the last few years years.  

We lose the first three games of the season and I can already see people gleefully ready to shout ‘Tony out’- sad.

Unless ive missed something, and please quote those who have said so to prove it. Those who are upset about what they perceive to be a needless title surrender and said nothing contrary to your first 6 points. Nor have they said that he should play injured players. But dont come out in the media and imply that, because the minimum expectation of promotion has been achieved, that we can down tools, and anything beyond that doesnt matter. Because its a trophy. Had he not implied that he doesnt care about the title, this issue wouldnt exist, win lose or draw on Saturday.

99% of the overreactions ironically come from those sharing the view that the title is an irrelevance.

Tony Mowbray has done a great job and promotion is being universally celebrated. Its a shame that some fans who somehow have got into a mindset of treating potential titles as nothing to be bothered about are intent on mocking those with the temerity to want to challenge for a potentially achievable trophy to proudly add to our trophy room.

[AllRoverAsia]

46 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Pathetic renaming of the thread and embarrassing reactions from some fans on here. 

I wonder do Wigan fans have a surrender of the title thread following their poor results lately? Or due to the fact we have made up around 12 points on them and still have a chance to win the league on the last day of the season? You should be ashamed of yourselves 

I agree that the thread title change was uncalled for and premature.

We are still in with a chance. Win Saturday and see where it takes us.

We can all agree that we all want a win v Oxford. I think.

[JHRover]

It would have been nice to win the title, and who knows we might still do on the final day of the season (the fact it is still a possibility at such a late stage of the season is testament to our performance over the 45 games so far and the turnaround after a poor August-November)

Maybe I'm arrogant but I don't consider the 3rd division to be a major honour. It's a minor honour. To those clubs deprived of any real major success in their entire histories or those who are at an all time high (Stanley) it probably means more, its nice to have another honour on the board but compared to our triumphs of the Premier League and League Cup it is immaterial.

If I were to end up on my deathbed next week whether or not we won League One wouldn't interest me. I'd be remembering winning major honours against the best in the land, not whether we pipped Wigan to the 3rd tier title. This club shouldn't have even been in the 3rd division and the vast majority of these players have performed at a higher level or will be doing for the remainder of their careers. They deserve credit for knuckling down and turning it around after the devastation of last season

We're in the top 10 most successful clubs in England. Adding a 3rd division title won't make any difference to that. The big thing for this club if it has serious intentions of continuing to climb the league ladder and not back down again is what business gets done between now and August.

[imy9]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What a pathetic overreaction.

Are fans of them 3 clubs the only sets of fans who are able to hope that their teams can win silverware without being mocked?

The reason that people are a bit upset is because Mowbray came out and implied that he doesnt care about winning the League. Fans who are dissapointed not to win the league, whilst acknowledging and celebrating promotion, are not being unreasonable.

Its not about the poor results! No one is saying anything but Promotion is a thing to be celebrated and cherished. Its about the manager implying ahead of the last 2 games that he doesnt care about the title.

Unless ive missed something, and please quote those who have said so to prove it. Those who are upset about what they perceive to be a needless title surrender and said nothing contrary to your first 6 points. Nor have they said that he should play injured players. But dont come out in the media and imply that, because the minimum expectation of promotion has been achieved, that we can down tools, and anything beyond that doesnt matter. Because its a trophy. Had he not implied that he doesnt care about the title, this issue wouldnt exist, win lose or draw on Saturday.

99% of the overreactions ironically come from those sharing the view that the title is an irrelevance.

Tony Mowbray has done a great job and promotion is being universally celebrated. Its a shame that some fans who somehow have got into a mindset of treating potential titles as nothing to be bothered about are intent on mocking those with the temerity to want to challenge for a potentially achievable trophy to proudly add to our trophy room.

10 game counter has been reset- Stuart.

That’s one of many.

Have your opinion on winning the title but we had a glut of injuries, those playing are not as good and we played Charlton away who are 5th and by all accounts we were unlucky to lose.

Oh and changing the thread to ‘Surrender of the title’ implies it was ours to surrender...(Wigan have been ahead ALL season- surely that’s a thread for them?) 

[DE.]

Just now, JHRover said:

It would have been nice to win the title, and who knows we might still do on the final day of the season (the fact it is still a possibility at such a late stage of the season is testament to our performance over the 45 games so far and the turnaround after a poor August-November)

Maybe I'm arrogant but I don't consider the 3rd division to be a major honour. It's a minor honour. To those clubs deprived of any real major success in their entire histories or those who are at an all time high (Stanley) it probably means more, its nice to have another honour on the board but compared to our triumphs of the Premier League and League Cup it is immaterial.

If I were to end up on my deathbed next week whether or not we won League One wouldn't interest me. I'd be remembering winning major honours against the best in the land, not whether we pipped Wigan to the 3rd tier title. This club shouldn't have even been in the 3rd division and the vast majority of these players have performed at a higher level or will be doing for the remainder of their careers. They deserve credit for knuckling down and turning it around after the devastation of last season

We're in the top 10 most successful clubs in England. Adding a 3rd division title won't make any difference to that. The big thing for this club if it has serious intentions of continuing to climb the league ladder and not back down again is what business gets done between now and August.

I'm pretty much with you on this. We should never have been in this league to begin with and it's been such a walkover (6 losses all season despite playing like crap for large portions of it) that being "champions" of such a poor league doesn't seem to mean that much. Adding another title to the list would be nice but I'm not going to flip my lid over not getting it.

I have to say, though, Mowbray has made a rod for his own back by denouncing the title as effectively meaningless. I have no idea why he would say that publicly even if he feels that way. It's a very unambitious statement and I don't think he needed to make it. 

 

[JHRover]

Just now, DE. said:

I'm pretty much with you on this. We should never have been in this league to begin with and it's been such a walkover (6 losses all season despite playing like crap for large portions of it) that being "champions" of such a poor league doesn't seem to mean that much. Adding another title to the list would be nice but I'm not going to flip my lid over not getting it.

I have to say, though, Mowbray has made a rod for his own back by denouncing the title as effectively meaningless. I have no idea why he would say that publicly even if he feels that way. It's a very unambitious statement and I don't think he needed to make it. 

 

Mowbray's sole target and expectation this season was promotion, and everything he has done has been on that basis. He effectively wrote off the FA Cup and Checkatrade Trophy as he considered both to be unwelcome distractions as evidenced by his team selections and body language in those games.

Wigan are likely to win their 2nd League One title in 3 years, but the only reason that has been possible is because they've been relegated to this level twice in their last 2 Championship seasons. They've been in League One twice, pasted teams, spent the entirety of that time in the top 2, and their honours board has 2 league titles on it. Yet they've twice shown they aren't good enough to stay in the 2nd division.

Far more important from hereon in is getting it right for next season and ensuring we don't do a Wigan or Bolton and yo-yo between the divisions. We could yo-yo for the next 10 years and win 5 League One titles which might be some people's idea of fun but I'd prefer we actually achieved a consistently upward trajectory and built towards the top of the Championship than keep picking up lower league trophies.

[DE.]

Just now, JHRover said:

Mowbray's sole target and expectation this season was promotion, and everything he has done has been on that basis. He effectively wrote off the FA Cup and Checkatrade Trophy as he considered both to be unwelcome distractions as evidenced by his team selections and body language in those games.

Wigan are likely to win their 2nd League One title in 3 years, but the only reason that has been possible is because they've been relegated to this level twice in their last 2 Championship seasons. They've been in League One twice, pasted teams, spent the entirety of that time in the top 2, and their honours board has 2 league titles on it. Yet they've twice shown they aren't good enough to stay in the 2nd division.

Far more important from hereon in is getting it right for next season and ensuring we don't do a Wigan or Bolton and yo-yo between the divisions. We could yo-yo for the next 10 years and win 5 League One titles which might be some people's idea of fun but I'd prefer we actually achieved a consistently upward trajectory and built towards the top of the Championship than keep picking up lower league trophies.

I think yo-yoing between divisions is unfortunately the most likely outcome based on Venky's history, which is why I can't get too giddy over our promotion. It's nice to have some success but it's only come about because our team was starved of investment, particularly during that final year in the Championship. League 1 promotion contenders/Championship relegation battlers seems to be about their level as far as funding is concerned. I would love to be wrong but I don't see them funding us next season any more than they have this season, and I'm not sure that will be enough. With all due respect to TM it's not his tactics that have gotten us up this year, it's the quality of players we've had at our disposal. As soon as Dack is off form or out of the team we really struggle and that is a huge concern for me going into the next campaign. I'm hoping TM's underdog mindset will translate better next season when we actually are the underdogs in a lot of games.  

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray's sole target and expectation this season was promotion, and everything he has done has been on that basis. He effectively wrote off the FA Cup and Checkatrade Trophy as he considered both to be unwelcome distractions as evidenced by his team selections and body language in those games.

Wigan are likely to win their 2nd League One title in 3 years, but the only reason that has been possible is because they've been relegated to this level twice in their last 2 Championship seasons. They've been in League One twice, pasted teams, spent the entirety of that time in the top 2, and their honours board has 2 league titles on it. Yet they've twice shown they aren't good enough to stay in the 2nd division.

Far more important from hereon in is getting it right for next season and ensuring we don't do a Wigan or Bolton and yo-yo between the divisions. We could yo-yo for the next 10 years and win 5 League One titles which might be some people's idea of fun but I'd prefer we actually achieved a consistently upward trajectory and built towards the top of the Championship than keep picking up lower league trophies.

But winning or coming second in the league will have no bearing on the summer or coming seasons. To be promoted was the main objective, I get that and fully agree and if that was offered to me last August I would have accepted it but to be promoted with two games left and effectively down tools is unacceptable to me. Once promotion was achieved I would have expected Mowbray to exceed his expectations at all costs.

[EgyptianPete]

Just now, DE. said:

I think yo-yoing between divisions is unfortunately the most likely outcome based on Venky's history, which is why I can't get too giddy over our promotion. It's nice to have some success but it's only come about because our team was starved of investment, particularly during that final year in the Championship. League 1 promotion contenders/Championship relegation battlers seems to be about their level as far as funding is concerned. I would love to be wrong but I don't see them funding us next season any more than they have this season, and I'm not sure that will be enough. With all due respect to TM it's not his tactics that have gotten us up this year, it's the quality of players we've had at our disposal. As soon as Dack is off form or out of the team we really struggle and that is a huge concern for me going into the next campaign. I'm hoping TM's underdog mindset will translate better next season when we actually are the underdogs in a lot of games.  

Boys and Girls, the reality is that the team that played at Charlton wasn't good enough, okay it was a fluke goal, but i mean that the players that came in for the rested/injured are definatley not championship standard or even L1 in some cases, at least Tony, if he didn't before, now knows who needs to go and be replaced. We have had a wonderful season so let it ride.

By the way how long did it take Sheff Utd to get out of LI and lets see what Sunderland do eh. 

[DE.]

Just now, EgyptianPete said:

Boys and Girls, the reality is that the team that played at Charlton wasn't good enough, okay it was a fluke goal, but i mean that the players that came in for the rested/injured are definatley not championship standard or even L1 in some cases, at least Tony, if he didn't before, now knows who needs to go and be replaced. We have had a wonderful season so let it ride.

By the way how long did it take Sheff Utd to get out of LI and lets see what Sunderland do eh. 

Note that I've been saying the above for some time before the Charlton game, so please don't patronise me by suggesting my post is a reaction to that result. Thanks.

[47er]

50 minutes ago, Paul said:

I'll happily accept your view that I got involved if that satisfies you. I expressed a view, I chose not to engage with anyone who offered a different view. I thought for the benefit of those not able to travel to The Valley it would be helpful to hear the experience of a travelling supporter.

As I have said you are underlining the reasons why I chose not to involve myself in the debate. I know exactly where this is going and I do not wish to be involved. I'd ask you to respect that stance.

I'm happy to leave it there but I'm bound to say its a very strange position to take-----'I won't take part in the discussion about selection but Samuel shouldn't have started before Graham"!

Never mind, you and Parson are as loyal as they come and I do appreciate hearing both of your direct experiences.

[Mike E]

13 minutes ago, EgyptianPete said:

Boys and Girls, the reality is that the team that played at Charlton wasn't good enough, okay it was a fluke goal, but i mean that the players that came in for the rested/injured are definatley not championship standard or even L1 in some cases, at least Tony, if he didn't before, now knows who needs to go and be replaced. We have had a wonderful season so let it ride.

By the way how long did it take Sheff Utd to get out of LI and lets see what Sunderland do eh. 

In some ways I wonder if that was a point he was trying to make? Twist Venky's thumb re: more investment.

[47er]

30 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray's sole target and expectation this season was promotion, and everything he has done has been on that basis. He effectively wrote off the FA Cup and Checkatrade Trophy as he considered both to be unwelcome distractions as evidenced by his team selections and body language in those games.

Wigan are likely to win their 2nd League One title in 3 years, but the only reason that has been possible is because they've been relegated to this level twice in their last 2 Championship seasons. They've been in League One twice, pasted teams, spent the entirety of that time in the top 2, and their honours board has 2 league titles on it. Yet they've twice shown they aren't good enough to stay in the 2nd division.

Far more important from hereon in is getting it right for next season and ensuring we don't do a Wigan or Bolton and yo-yo between the divisions. We could yo-yo for the next 10 years and win 5 League One titles which might be some people's idea of fun but I'd prefer we actually achieved a consistently upward trajectory and built towards the top of the Championship than keep picking up lower league trophies.

Can't argue with that. I didn't care for months whether we were Champions or not but to see Wigan mess it up again and Rovers not able to take advantage of it for all sorts of reasons made me furious. Over-reaction I suppose because we ARE promoted.

[Angry_Pirate]

1 hour ago, imy9 said:

We lose the first three games of the season and I can already see people gleefully ready to shout ‘Tony out’- sad.

I definitely won't be doing that, but my gut feeling is he doesn't survive the next 12 months. He is too cautious a manager in L1 and we will be punished many times over at a higher level. I wouldn't be shocked if we get to the half way point of the season sat top of the "most points surrendered from winning positions" league table. 

However if we play 3 (lets be honest - 5) at the back after the calamitous showing in that formation this season - we will most likely lose our first 3 games so who knows, i just might be asking for a change as Tony clearly hasn't learned the most obvious (to many) lesson of the season.

With potentially 20,000+ fans on Saturday, he would be foolish to not start strong and go for our biggest win of the season (Think Wigan a few years ago when we needed something like a 7-0 win for an outside shot of playoffs - think it ended 4-2 and we played fantastic). 

A good win, promotion and an all out assault on the (unlikely) title could net us an extra few thousand season tickets next year which would be £1m+ in bonus revenue for a transfer. I 100% believe the players he chooses will give their all to win, they just rely on him picking a 11 capable of doing so. Boring, safe, 5-5-0 football is not what we need for a final home game with so many part time/ potential new fans in attendance.

If TM doesn't care about the Oxford game, he should.