[Archived] THE BATTLE FOR PROMOTION....WON.

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Well I personally disagree with that comment but its one in isolation.

You are totally missing the point. It was neither the difficulty of the game, the result nor the injuries/team selection. It was the quotes from Mowbray that implied that the title is an irrelevance to him. If he had said we are gonna try and win the title for our fans we have nothing to lose, then we lost the game, there would never have been all this fall out and frustration. Its the attitude and people dont seem to be able to grasp it.

Have to admit I hadn't grasped that, and if I've been unduly bitchy to anyone about then I apologise.

At least we can all agree that we've had a delicious Bakewell of a season even if we don't quite get the cherry on the top.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I just hope we put out as strong a side as possible AND perform come Saturday in front of what will be a great crowd.

[Rover_Shaun]

 

[JBiz]

4 hours ago, MGPensioner said:

Did he say the title didn't matter ?

Did he have the chance to win the title & instead gave it away ?

Don Trump has a name for your sort pal. Never has been / never will be... go and take part pal... 

Bore off

Am I really reading this... you’re a trump fan? Makes a lot of sense really.

To say TM “gave” the title away... it just makes you sound so ridiculous. I guess the other teams who allowed us to be 2nd are more responsible for our results this season then!

..and nobody felt that season by Souness was anything but a success. Just like, over 46 games this season, our target has been met!

 

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

In your view he got it wrong Stuart, but that's your view - it doesn't mean to say he got it wrong.  You say nothing good came out of Saturday - try telling that to the thousands of fans who travelled south and had an enjoyable day celebrating at The Valley and watching a game in which we weren't as poor as some would have us believe.  We've played far worse this season and won but that's football.

Unless he chose to lose then he got it wrong.

Glad you had a good day though.

[Vinjay]

Fulham were too far ahead in the final weeks of that season so the circumstances were a little different. It was kinda like this season in the sense there was some catching up to do. Also there may have been the feeling (certainly from me) that as the season progressed Rovers were a better team than Fulham. There was more pressure here with Jack's death and all which was probably part of the reason for some of the inconsistency. There's no doubt Rovers were better than Bolton then and Shrewsbury now. Are Rovers better than Wigan? Can't say I'm convinced. 

Perhaps if it hadn't come down to the wire I wouldn't be that bothered about it given the club has been promoted and all. It's just some of the mentality from Mowbray, certain fans, etc that comes across the wrong way. That's what I don't like. The vast majority have several weeks to go out clubbing or whatever once the season is over. Right now though they should still be training hard just to set an example to the Academy, EDS, etc of intense professionalism. Of course with Dunn around that's likely to be a losing battle.

I also think that the prognosis was better in 2001. The club was looking forward to returning to the top flight and I certainly believed relegation would be avoided. Are people looking forward to next season so much? I'm not so sure it's better than the Championship of course but the club is still under the ownership of idiots and some people believe in staying vigilant. Of course in 2001 the family influenced trustees hadn't implemented starvation practices, horrible neglect and brainwashing the fanbase. Even so the club was still in the top flight and for those who didn't like the owners at least a takeover (yes there's always risks but even now there's no guarantee the next owners will be any better but I'm still pro takeover) was likelier then. Right now it's the same and I can't see Venkys writing off anything to the extent Short apparently has.

[Pedro]

3 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

I don't get it. I don't see the 3rd division trophy as worthwhile. The prize is getting out of the division. Rovers have won that prize, with games to spare. Mowbray delivers promotion at the first time of asking yet fans are moaning because 1st spot is now Wigan's to lose.

Enjoy promotion. Look forward to building on it and progressing in 2018-19.

 

Winning tge League One title is almost on a par with being voted the best looking bloke on the burns unit.

[Paul]

1 hour ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

I just hope we put out as strong a side as possible AND perform come Saturday in front of what will be a great crowd.

130 pages of arguments and counter arguments and this is the most important post of them all. 

Perhaps 7-8000 fans there on Saturday who haven’t been to Ewood this season, in years or perhaps ever.

I want us to win the title, I know it’s still a possibility but I’d forgo the title if it means we give Oxford a thumping and send 20,000 Rovers home with a BIG smile on their faces. With a bit of luck some of them will return in August.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive but I reckon 20,000 smiling Rovers is the better option, title or not.

[des]

the most vital thing is that we are up  that's what counts  come on people let be glad about that

 

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

In your view he got it wrong Stuart, but that's your view - it doesn't mean to say he got it wrong.  You say nothing good came out of Saturday - try telling that to the thousands of fans who travelled south and had an enjoyable day celebrating at The Valley and watching a game in which we weren't as poor as some would have us believe.  We've played far worse this season and won but that's football.

I don't buy it neither do a number of folk I know who travelled - they were disappointed.

The only occasion when I've enjoyed a day/game when Rovers lost was at Anfield in 1995 when we won the PL.  In no way can Charlton be compared to that day.

A previous poster referred to Pep's mentality at City - they want to smash every game and every record.  Mowbray owed it to the fans to ensure Rovers were fired up - IMV, his pre match comments smacked of lethargy.  Again, as a previous poster said there are winners and losers.  We need a man in charge who is an out and out winner - don't think Mowbray is. 

 

[JBiz]

Just now, Mercer said:

 

 

A previous poster referred to Pep's mentality at City - they want to smash every game and every record.  Mowbray owed it to the fans to ensure Rovers were fired up - IMV, his pre match comments smacked of lethargy.  Again, as a previous poster said there are winners and losers.  We need a man in charge who is an out and out winner - don't think Mowbray is. 

 

I’m sure by now you’ve won £1,000,000,000+ on bets, maybe you could could spend that in the same way City have done,  to ENSURE that’s the constant attitude and quality level necessary to be that successful?

It’s not a relevant comparison. To criticise the manager as not a winner, ergo a “loser” on the basis of one team sheet or performance... 

Absolutley maddening. I could understand and accept if we’d turned out at the Valley and been easily turned over, but we deserved to win the game.

Mowbray is certainly not the best manager we’ve ever had, and he has had some fair criticism. Thing is though, he also deserves a lot of respect and praise for being the only manager of 8 in 6 years, who’s actually achieved the necessary. 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

58 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Winning tge League One title is almost on a par......

This MB has seen some crass and  obnoxious posts over the years but few as comprehensively awful as this.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Biz said:

I’m sure by now you’ve won £1,000,000,000+ on bets, maybe you could could spend that in the same way City have done,  to ENSURE that’s the constant attitude and quality level necessary to be that successful?

It’s not a relevant comparison. To criticise the manager as not a winner, ergo a “loser” on the basis of one team sheet or performance... 

Absolutley maddening. I could understand and accept if we’d turned out at the Valley and been easily turned over, but we deserved to win the game.

Mowbray is certainly not the best manager we’ve ever had, and he has had some fair criticism. Thing is though, he also deserves a lot of respect and praise for being the only manager of 8 in 6 years, who’s actually achieved the necessary. 

 

Firstly, like you said you cant call Mowbray a loser on the basis of one game. Comparisons to City do nothing but de-contextualize the actual point that many, including myself are making.

However, whilst I totally agree and would like to echo the sentiments of the statement in bold. Do you understand why some, like myself feel that even taking that into account, celebrating and appreciating what youve said, that they feel let down by the attitude and disregard shown by Mowbray in regards to the title, as an individual point?

I like to echo the point you made in bold because I feel like the point that a lot of us are making is being overlooked, or wrongly painted as having an overall negative view on Mowbray or on the achievements of the season as a whole, which is totally unfair.

I also feel that those who are attempting to defend Mowbray are trying to do so by suggesting that they are satisfied by promotion, ie that they would have taken it beforehand if offered this season. The thing is, those who have criticised him solely over his attitude towards the title have never suggested that they wouldnt have been happy with that, more so that when that was achieved, there was nothing to lose by coming out and stating that we are going to do our utmost to win the title, but he said the opposite and made a rod for his own back.

[Mercer]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

I’m sure by now you’ve won £1,000,000,000+ on bets, maybe you could could spend that in the same way City have done,  to ENSURE that’s the constant attitude and quality level necessary to be that successful?

It’s not a relevant comparison. To criticise the manager as not a winner, ergo a “loser” on the basis of one team sheet or performance... 

Absolutley maddening. I could understand and accept if we’d turned out at the Valley and been easily turned over, but we deserved to win the game.

Mowbray is certainly not the best manager we’ve ever had, and he has had some fair criticism. Thing is though, he also deserves a lot of respect and praise for being the only manager of 8 in 6 years, who’s actually achieved the necessary. 

 

I think Mowbray's record with us is mixed.  Nearly kept us up but, IMV, some baffling decisions / tactics cost us key points.  He's got us back at the first time of asking which was the absolute minimum requirement.

My point is, and I think others share it, hunger and desire to win and succeed is not like a tap that can be turned on and off.  IMV, there was too much 'Charlton doesn't really matter' in the run up to the game and players quickly pick up on such attitudes.

If we win the title, which now looks unlikely, it will be there on the club's roll of honour along with FA Cup Final wins, Premier League win etc.  These things do matter.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

I think Mowbray's record with us is mixed.  Nearly kept us up but, IMV, some baffling decisions / tactics cost us key points.  He's got us back at the first time of asking which was the absolute minimum requirement.

My point is, and I think others share it, hunger and desire to win and succeed is not like a tap that can be turned on and off.  IMV, there was too much 'Charlton doesn't really matter' in the run up to the game and players quickly pick up on such attitudes.

If we win the title, which now looks unlikely, it will be there on the club's roll of honour along with FA Cup Final wins, Premier League win etc.  These things do matter.

Totally agree 100% on attitudes and how Mowbray was in the wrong for saying and implying what he did.

Also couldnt agree more on the importance of winning trophies whenever possible, especially League titles. To have scant disregard for them, especially in a position in which we have nothing to lose, as either a manager or a supporter seems totally baffling to me.

That said, I feel like you are being far too harsh on Mowbray in general, yes we were favourites for promotion, but he deserves a hell of a lot of credit for making it reality.

I also feel that your overall view on Mowbray may take the focus away from the first 2 points I mentioned which are very valid.

[Exiled in Toronto]

3 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think Mowbray's record with us is mixed.  Nearly kept us up but, IMV, some baffling decisions / tactics cost us key points.  He's got us back at the first time of asking which was the absolute minimum requirement.

My point is, and I think others share it, hunger and desire to win and succeed is not like a tap that can be turned on and off.  IMV, there was too much 'Charlton doesn't really matter' in the run up to the game and players quickly pick up on such attitudes.

If we win the title, which now looks unlikely, it will be there on the club's roll of honour along with FA Cup Final wins, Premier League win etc.  These things do matter.

Here’s the thing though, Mowbray turned that tap on better than anyone we’ve had here for ages, not that a passing reader would realize.

Anyway, keep comparing him to Pep as if we have the choice between them. Everyone comes up short compared to his will to win (and his £500 million transfer budget).

[Rover_Shaun]

We've won the cake. Nothing wrong with wanting a cherry on it.

[JBiz]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Firstly, like you said you cant call Mowbray a loser on the basis of one game. Comparisons to City do nothing but de-contextualize the actual point that many, including myself are making.

However, whilst I totally agree and would like to echo the sentiments of the statement in bold. 1. Do you understand why some, like myself feel that even taking that into account, celebrating and appreciating what youve said, that they feel let down by the attitude and disregard shown by Mowbray in regards to the title, as an individual point?

I like to echo the point you made in bold because I feel like the point that a lot of us are making is being overlooked, 2. or wrongly painted as having an overall negative view on Mowbray or on the achievements of the season as a whole, which is totally unfair.

I also feel that those who are attempting to defend Mowbray are trying to do so by suggesting that they are satisfied by promotion, ie that they would have taken it beforehand if offered this season. The thing is, those who have criticised him solely over his attitude towards the title have never suggested that they wouldnt have been happy with that, more so that when that was achieved, there was nothing to lose by coming out and stating that we are going to do our utmost to win the title, but he said the opposite and made a rod for his own back.

1. The simple answer is no. Yes, I understand that some will see those comments and the formation as a baffling decision, but I can’t agree with some of the over-reactionary criticism with everything else “taken into account” with it, including the method he chose nearly/should’ve supplied the result based on the performance.

Ive said that multiple times. To make Lee Bowyer admit his team needed “luck”, the home keeper played a blinder and simply looking at the stats- our team played as well or better than we have in some games recently with our perceived best 11 and shape.

2. I admit that this does happen both ways, it’s part of discussion though. It’s difficult (unless you’re chaddy) to reply to everyone individually without having a melt down in quotations..

 

For the last paragraph - it’s about asking why those who think this poor result in isolation (because that’s all that matters) warrants talk of the “ten game” evaluation for the manager? It’s an extreme example, but look at mercer and others essentially suggesting Mowbray is a loser!

If that deflection ends up in Leutwiler’s mits, and Samuels header a tidge’ lower- wouldn’t we be marvelling in Tony’s ability to take the pressure off the players by playing it down, and thank him for putting the title in our hands?

Fine margins need narrow and realistic reactions to individual games and decisions. The Keepmoat was less than a week ago... 

17 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think Mowbray's record with us is mixed.  Nearly kept us up but, IMV, some baffling decisions / tactics cost us key points.  He's got us back at the first time of asking which was the absolute minimum requirement.

My point is, and I think others share it, hunger and desire to win and succeed is not like a tap that can be turned on and off.  IMV, there was too much 'Charlton doesn't really matter' in the run up to the game and players quickly pick up on such attitudes.

If we win the title, which now looks unlikely, it will be there on the club's roll of honour along with FA Cup Final wins, Premier League win etc.  These things do matter.

The minimum requirement but in no way the minimum expectation. I don’t need to look hard to find some of the suggestions of May 2017 that do not fit with yours.

It matters a lot, but it’s to his credit that in game 46/46, we are still in with a shot of bringing it home. We could’ve done better, but I don’t think such criticism of his mindset is an appropriate response to a game we probably should’ve at least won.

 

[Mark45]

I am not understand why so much blame on Tony for winning Championship promotion and 2 games to play?

Every week and month he called wrong, he win promotion called wrong?

Maybe biding in summer for Owen Coyle back? Paul Lambert? Steve Kean?

Support Tony and players please.

 

[Stuart]

4 minutes ago, Mark45 said:

I am not understand why so much blame on Tony for winning Championship promotion and 2 games to play?

Every week and month he called wrong, he win promotion called wrong?

Maybe biding in summer for Owen Coyle back? Paul Lambert? Steve Kean?

Support Tony and players please.

 

Don’t expect you to understand Mark.

Most of what you have typed is straw man and the other half nonsense.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Seems to me that some fans have just got into moaning mode after the last 7 years of venkys and can't shake themselves out of it.

One week after sealing promotion and they are back on the moan train

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

One thing is for sure - we need a real performance against Oxford, not 11 guys going through the motions. Or does that game not matter either ?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

One thing is for sure - we need a real performance against Oxford, not 11 guys going through the motions. Or does that game not matter either ?

Now and I only seen the highlights, but it looked like we should have battered Charlton. We had way more chances. If we got well bet I would say something but contrary to perceived comments from Mowbray and team selections, we should have won the game. 

I'm pretty sure we will beat Oxford. It's a pity Wigan drawing won't do us. Here's hoping Doncaster do us a solid. Their fans are optimistic going off their board anyway 

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

One thing is for sure - we need a real performance against Oxford, not 11 guys going through the motions. Or does that game not matter either ?

I haven’t seen 11 going through the motions for 18 months nearly so I’m not sure why that would happen now.

[blueboy3333]

7 minutes ago, Mark45 said:

I am not understand why so much blame on Tony for winning Championship promotion and 2 games to play?

 

 

 

Oh dear. The nuances of most arguments are lost on you but this is your finest hour.