[Archived] THE BATTLE FOR PROMOTION....WON.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Biz said:

1. The simple answer is no. Yes, I understand that some will see those comments and the formation as a baffling decision, but I can’t agree with some of the over-reactionary criticism with everything else “taken into account” with it, including the method he chose nearly/should’ve supplied the result based on the performance.

Ive said that multiple times. To make Lee Bowyer admit his team needed “luck”, the home keeper played a blinder and simply looking at the stats- our team played as well or better than we have in some games recently with our perceived best 11 and shape.

2. I admit that this does happen both ways, it’s part of discussion though. It’s difficult (unless you’re chaddy) to reply to everyone individually without having a melt down in quotations..

 

For the last paragraph - it’s about asking why those who think this poor result in isolation (because that’s all that matters) warrants talk of the “ten game” evaluation for the manager? It’s an extreme example, but look at mercer and others essentially suggesting Mowbray is a loser!

If that deflection ends up in Leutwiler’s mits, and Samuels header a tidge’ lower- wouldn’t we be marvelling in Tony’s ability to take the pressure off the players by playing it down, and thank him for putting the title in our hands?

Fine margins need narrow and realistic reactions to individual games and decisions. The Keepmoat was less than a week ago... 

The minimum requirement but in no way the minimum expectation. I don’t need to look hard to find some of the suggestions of May 2017 that do not fit with yours.

It matters a lot, but it’s to his credit that in game 46/46, we are still in with a shot of bringing it home. We could’ve done better, but I don’t think such criticism of his mindset is an appropriate response to a game we probably should’ve at least won.

 

There are for sure extreme opinions on both side, from chaddy asking me if id prefer Owen Coyle, or being told to stop moaning and being negative all the time, or on the flip side, Mercer calling Mowbray a loser and people comparing him to Guardiola or claiming that hes lying about injuries. To be honest, I think its up to each individual to write off such unreasonable opinions as not representative of anything other than a slim minority.

For example, various valid criticisms have been made about Saturday, would I have played 3 at the back, would I have played Paul Caddis, would I have played Dom Samuel over Danny Graham, would I have played Jack Payne as a false 9? The answer to all of these points is no I wouldnt, but ive refrained from putting any of those points because for me, they take away the attention from the main point im trying to make.

I also am under no illusions that going to Charlton, amidst the play offs and experiencing a new manager bounce, would have been a difficult game regardless of our attitude and personnel.

I also totally acknowledge that I felt that we were unlucky at times, albeit it wasnt our best performance we did create chances to score. I went down to Charlton and it did put a dampner on my day slightly, albeit I did enjoy it as a promotion party. It was an inevitable anti-climax following on from his comments.

Ive been keen to ensure that my points in regards to criticising Mowbray about his disregard for the title, and also showing my respect and delight at him sealing promotion, are both equally coming across in an ideal world, the points arent mutually exclusive.

I've bolded something in the first line of your message as something I see as important. As I touched on, I didnt agree with some of the choices tactically/personnel that Mowbray chose. However, I certainly wouldnt have been so frustrated/let down/annoyed had my grievances been based on his tactics. If we had lost, obviously id have been annoyed, I hate seeing Rovers lose. But, the sole grievance I have is with the comments he made, and the attitude he showed. And I have been even more surprised to see supporters sharing his disregard for a league title, when we have nothing to lose by at least appearing to go at it 100%, considering weve got promotion in the bag. 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Seems to me that some fans have just got into moaning mode after the last 7 years of venkys and can't shake themselves out of it.

One week after sealing promotion and they are back on the moan train

 

These sorts of comments make me want to start headbutting a brick wall.

Firstly, the only reason that this has been discussed in such depth is because it is such a divisive topic, and we are on an internet messageboard.

Maybe part of the reason for comments such as these, about moaning which I find to be quite ignorant, are because from what it seems, you are not regularly attending games or based in the area. I went to Charlton, and can confirm that, having got up at 6am, paid alot of money to travel and get into the ground, that I did feel a bit shortchanged by the managers attitude, not the team selection, not the performance, not the result, but by the indifference to a potential trophy. That said, the whole day was 100% backing, everyone proud, singing, happy, positive, even when we went a goal down, everyone was savouring the moment, including myself. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

These sorts of comments make me want to start headbutting a brick wall.

Firstly, the only reason that this has been discussed in such depth is because it is such a divisive topic, and we are on an internet messageboard.

Maybe part of the reason for comments such as these, about moaning which I find to be quite ignorant, are because from what it seems, you are not regularly attending games or based in the area. I went to Charlton, and can confirm that, having got up at 6am, paid alot of money to travel and get into the ground, that I did feel a bit shortchanged by the managers attitude, not the team selection, not the performance, not the result, but by the indifference to a potential trophy. That said, the whole day was 100% backing, everyone proud, singing, happy, positive, even when we went a goal down, everyone was savouring the moment, including myself. 

Oh that old insult "you're not from the area so your opinion doesn't matter" This is a local shop for local people. 

Should we have won the game so seeing as you were at it? 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

These sorts of comments make me want to start headbutting a brick wall.

Firstly, the only reason that this has been discussed in such depth is because it is such a divisive topic, and we are on an internet messageboard.

Maybe part of the reason for comments such as these, about moaning which I find to be quite ignorant, are because from what it seems, you are not regularly attending games or based in the area. I went to Charlton, and can confirm that, having got up at 6am, paid alot of money to travel and get into the ground, that I did feel a bit shortchanged by the managers attitude, not the team selection, not the performance, not the result, but by the indifference to a potential trophy. That said, the whole day was 100% backing, everyone proud, singing, happy, positive, even when we went a goal down, everyone was savouring the moment, including myself. 

You don't have to explain yourself to someone who doesn't go to games. He's a WUM. Nothing more.

[Oldgregg86]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There are for sure extreme opinions on both side, from chaddy asking me if id prefer Owen Coyle, or being told to stop moaning and being negative all the time, or on the flip side, Mercer calling Mowbray a loser and people comparing him to Guardiola or claiming that hes lying about injuries. To be honest, I think its up to each individual to write off such unreasonable opinions as not representative of anything other than a slim minority.

For example, various valid criticisms have been made about Saturday, would I have played 3 at the back, would I have played Paul Caddis, would I have played Dom Samuel over Danny Graham, would I have played Jack Payne as a false 9? The answer to all of these points is no I wouldnt, but ive refrained from putting any of those points because for me, they take away the attention from the main point im trying to make.

I also am under no illusions that going to Charlton, amidst the play offs and experiencing a new manager bounce, would have been a difficult game regardless of our attitude and personnel.

I also totally acknowledge that I felt that we were unlucky at times, albeit it wasnt our best performance we did create chances to score. I went down to Charlton and it did put a dampner on my day slightly, albeit I did enjoy it as a promotion party. It was an inevitable anti-climax following on from his comments.

Ive been keen to ensure that my points in regards to criticising Mowbray about his disregard for the title, and also showing my respect and delight at him sealing promotion, are both equally coming across in an ideal world, the points arent mutually exclusive.

I've bolded something in the first line of your message as something I see as important. As I touched on, I didnt agree with some of the choices tactically/personnel that Mowbray chose. However, I certainly wouldnt have been so frustrated/let down/annoyed had my grievances been based on his tactics. If we had lost, obviously id have been annoyed, I hate seeing Rovers lose. But, the sole grievance I have is with the comments he made, and the attitude he showed. And I have been even more surprised to see supporters sharing his disregard for a league title, when we have nothing to lose by at least appearing to go at it 100%, considering weve got promotion in the bag. 

THANK GOD SOMEONE GETS IT.

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Oh that old insult "you're not from the area so your opinion doesn't matter" This is a local shop for local people. 

Should we have won the game so seeing as you were at it? 

Not remotely the point I was making.

You suggested that fans are just desperate to moan at anything/unable to do anything but moan.

I found that comment to be both ignorant of the actual feel of the club, and also dismissive of the point people are making.

I just wanted to state that I can promise you that the fan base is in the main united behind Mowbray, the atmosphere around the club is brilliant, and you shouldnt allow people making valid criticisms about a specific issue on a messageboard to sour your overall perception of it all.

I also suggested that you may have felt differently had you spent alot of money to go to a game already rendered and dismissed as seemingly unimportant by the manager, despite the fact that silverware is realistically obtainable. May being the operative word, as some fans who went to Charlton dont see a problem with publically implying that the title is unimportant, whereas some fans who didnt go feel justifiably let down by the same comments.

Please dont take my comments totally out of context.

[JacknOry]

2 hours ago, Pedro said:

Winning tge League One title is almost on a par with being voted the best looking bloke on the burns unit.

Even if i dont completely agree - that made me chuckle.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not remotely the point I was making.

You suggested that fans are just desperate to moan at anything/unable to do anything but moan.

I found that comment to be both ignorant of the actual feel of the club, and also dismissive of the point people are making.

I just wanted to state that I can promise you that the fan base is in the main united behind Mowbray, the atmosphere around the club is brilliant, and you shouldnt allow people making valid criticisms about a specific issue on a messageboard to sour your overall perception of it all.

I also suggested that you may have felt differently had you spent alot of money to go to a game already rendered and dismissed as seemingly unimportant by the manager, despite the fact that silverware is realistically obtainable. May being the operative word, as some fans who went to Charlton dont see a problem with publically implying that the title is unimportant, whereas some fans who didnt go feel justifiably let down by the same comments.

Please dont take my comments totally out of context.

Right and you avoid my question again, should we have won the game? 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Right and you avoid my question again, should we have won the game? 

Won, id personally say might be stretching it. A draw would have been fair.

That said, that is totally irrelevant to the point ive been making.

Basically, Mowbray states in the week prior that now the focus is on getting the title, with promotion confirmed, and this whole debate doesnt exist.

Its the disregard for a league title that has rubbed so many people up the wrong way.

It is not the loss, the team selection, the formation, the refereeing decisions, the substitutions, the performance or anything along those lines.

[JBiz]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There are for sure extreme opinions on both side, from chaddy asking me if id prefer Owen Coyle, or being told to stop moaning and being negative all the time, or on the flip side, Mercer calling Mowbray a loser and people comparing him to Guardiola or claiming that hes lying about injuries. To be honest, I think its up to each individual to write off such unreasonable opinions as not representative of anything other than a slim minority.

For example, various valid criticisms have been made about Saturday, would I have played 3 at the back, would I have played Paul Caddis, would I have played Dom Samuel over Danny Graham, would I have played Jack Payne as a false 9? The answer to all of these points is no I wouldnt, but ive refrained from putting any of those points because for me, they take away the attention from the main point im trying to make.

I also am under no illusions that going to Charlton, amidst the play offs and experiencing a new manager bounce, would have been a difficult game regardless of our attitude and personnel.

I also totally acknowledge that I felt that we were unlucky at times, albeit it wasnt our best performance we did create chances to score. I went down to Charlton and it did put a dampner on my day slightly, albeit I did enjoy it as a promotion party. It was an inevitable anti-climax following on from his comments.

Ive been keen to ensure that my points in regards to criticising Mowbray about his disregard for the title, and also showing my respect and delight at him sealing promotion, are both equally coming across in an ideal world, the points arent mutually exclusive.

I've bolded something in the first line of your message as something I see as important. As I touched on, I didnt agree with some of the choices tactically/personnel that Mowbray chose. However, I certainly wouldnt have been so frustrated/let down/annoyed had my grievances been based on his tactics. If we had lost, obviously id have been annoyed, I hate seeing Rovers lose. But, the sole grievance I have is with the comments he made, and the attitude he showed. And I have been even more surprised to see supporters sharing his disregard for a league title, when we have nothing to lose by at least appearing to go at it 100%, considering weve got promotion in the bag. 

Those three players individual inclusion actually merits discussion on a match thread, whereas the Friday interview comments given the context of hindsight are worth less to me. Like I said previously, it’s possible he felt necessary to take all the pressure off. Wouldn’t matter if the result had merited the performance.

In respect to the change of thread title, and turning the discussion into summary of Mowbray and his questionable mentality; I absolutely cannot agree with many of the reactions - as stated.

I can also confirm that this weekend cost me nearly £200 quid (I haven’t actually checked yet....!!), and whilst I probably would’ve spent more if we’d won, I went to London relaxed in the knowledge that we’d achieved the requirement. “That was priceless...” cringe.

 

[Mark45]

45 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Don’t expect you to understand Mark.

Most of what you have typed is straw man and the other half nonsense.

I understand you are a moaner, same in every language.

Try support your club, you may just enjoy to do so.

[JacknOry]

Good points from both sides, can we now put this to bed? I think both sides should be able to see the other by now and at least understand them? 

I think thats what we all want anyway? Agree to disagree and all that?

[JacknOry]

Just now, Mark45 said:

I understand you are a moaner, same in every language.

Try support your club, you may just enjoy to do so.

And you are quite trollish - please lets put this to bed.

[Oldgregg86]

Agreed. I think we have all gone round in enough circles. Let's celebrate the promotion that Tony has done excellent to achieve and give this league a massive see ya later party on Saturday

[JacknOry]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

Agreed. I think we have all gone round in enough circles. Let's celebrate the promotion that Tony has done excellent to achieve and give this league a massive see ya later party on Saturday

Yep its arguing for arguments sake and at the end of the day - we should all be celebrating nonetheless. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Biz said:

Those three players individual inclusion actually merits discussion on a match thread, whereas the Friday interview comments given the context of hindsight are worth less to me. Like I said previously, it’s possible he felt necessary to take all the pressure off. Wouldn’t matter if the result had merited the performance.

In respect to the change of thread title, and turning the discussion into summary of Mowbray and his questionable mentality; I absolutely cannot agree with many of the reactions - as stated.

I can also confirm that this weekend cost me nearly £200 quid (I haven’t actually checked yet....!!), and whilst I probably would’ve spent more if we’d won, I went to London relaxed in the knowledge that we’d achieved the requirement. “That was priceless...” cringe.

 

One thing I can totally share with you is the overwhelming feeling of happiness going in to a game knowing we are promoted. Im glad to say thats definitely something that goes right throughout the fanbase and the club at the moment.

I just cannot fathom anything other than a 100% desire to at least give everything to win the title, even taking into account that promotion, ie the primary aim, is accounted for.

Whilst I take on board your comments about potentially alleviating pressure, I feel that whatever way you look at it, he made a rod for his own back by being so dismissive about the title and its importance. I felt that a lot of the pressure would have been removed by sealing promotion anyway. At best, the comments were naive, at worst, quite disrespectful in my opinion.

Im quite keen to ensure that I dont appear to be moaning for the sake of it, or unhappy in general, because in regards to promotion and the season as a wole with Mowbray, im made up, honestly! Its just a bug bear with an individual point regarding manager (and supporter) attitude towards the title and its importance, and I appreciate that youve acknowledged that point, albeit with alternative views.

[Angry_Pirate]

What's done is done, TM must be aware of the "fallout" after Charlton and I would hope he does the 20,000+ in attendance no disservice and plays a team AND formation with the intention of scoring as many goals as possible.

After seeing the team sheet for Charlton i did put £20 on a Charlton win, netting £50, so I'm simply hoping whatever happens regarding the league title, it would be nice if Doncaster could take a shock lead and we could be winning so that I can whack that £50 on a Wigan title, with odds slightly better then the 1-8 on that are now. 

If we win our game well, yet come second on GD, I still think it makes for a cracking final day celebration. Let's just stay of the damn pitch ey!

[Rover_Shaun]

Silly overreaction on all sides now.

Is it not natural to want the best if it's there to be achieved?

 

[den9112]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its the disregard for a league title that has rubbed so many people up the wrong way

Correct ...plenty around at Charlton thought the same but hey ho we got promoted so lets carry on the party which we all did, i celebrated with a group of Luton fans in a local Indian and then on for a sing song at the local whetherspoons then on to Milton keynes to meet a few Man city fans we pre arranged to meet. up with .. Yes.we had a little moan on the way out of Charlton as we heard the Wigan result and lets be honest who wouldn't after seeing they drew ....its a natural reaction from myself and the two ex pro players i was with but that is just 3 of us out of 3000 that watched the game ...

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Yep its arguing for arguments sake and at the end of the day - we should all be celebrating nonetheless. 

Disagree, pleasure to have a discussion with (roversfan in particular) that doesn’t boil down to just reactionary nonsense. I can understand he felt there was a lack of commitment but I still disagree.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Biz said:

Disagree, pleasure to have a discussion with (roversfan in particular) that doesn’t boil down to just reactionary nonsense. I can understand he felt there was a lack of commitment but I still disagree.

Which is fine - so just agree to disagree then as its all going round in circles. 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 hours ago, den said:

Of course not, but that’s another entirely irrelevant comparison Rev.

first game next season, whether we finished first or second this season will be forgotten about.  

No it isn't, the three scenarios are exactly the same in principle but you can't answer the point I've raised so you are pretending the comparisons are irrelevant.

it's about downing tools with part of the season still to go and a very worthwhile prize still up for grabs. The manager stating that it doesn't really matter if we win ithe title n advance of the Charlton game then picking a vastly weakened team and players having a prearranged celebration party in London when they could quite easily have waited seven days until the end of the season.

it's not good but that does not in any way detract from the fantastic achievement of winning promotion or anyone's enjoyment of it. The two are completely separate and mutually exclusive. With promotion already in the bag however I find it bizarre that anyone connected with the Club be it manager players or fans do not view adding the title on top as nearly as desirable.

[Pedro]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

This MB has seen some crass and  obnoxious posts over the years but few as comprehensively awful as this.

Lighten up. It's a VERY old Frankie Boyle joke. 

[Uddersfelt Blue]

12 minutes ago, Rover_Shaun said:

Silly overreaction on all sides now.

Is it not natural to want the best if it's there to be achieved?

 

For what it’s worth I was at Charlton too and, yes, we gave them the initiative by resting several players but it also gave those players who haven’t featured much, a chance to play a part in our success.

Mowbray is no idiot, he knows how to manage his players which is what it’s all about. Let’s give him some credit. 

Whether we win the League or not really does not matter.

Walking back to the car, a young Charlton fan made the comment “good result for you guys” to which I replied smugly “yes well done” knowing that they still have to sweat it through the play-offs, whilst we can chill out until August.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Now and I only seen the highlights, but it looked like we should have battered Charlton. We had way more chances. If we got well bet I would say something but contrary to perceived comments from Mowbray and team selections, we should have won the game. 

I'm pretty sure we will beat Oxford. It's a pity Wigan drawing won't do us. Here's hoping Doncaster do us a solid. Their fans are optimistic going off their board anyway 

It’s not a “pity” at all. It’s exactly why I wasn’t happy after the Charlton game.

And after all of your postings and put downs about this game YOU ONLY WATCHED THE HIGHLIGHTS??!!