[Archived] THE BATTLE FOR PROMOTION....WON.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I don't understand the level of anti-Mowbray sentiment on here from some, not just yourself. I agree we should have won the league having got ourselves to that position but would argue that we threw it away letting a two goal lead against our rivals for the title, not by changing the team around once we had been promoted - especially considering the opposition manager admitted they were lucky to come away with three points. And actually we haven't even lost the title yet. 

Given the absolute mess of the last however many years under these clowns I fail to see how having a manager achieve promotion - and in truth very nearly keeping us up last year after that utter @#/?ing disgrace Coyle - would not bring him anything but admiration. Each to their own I suppose, the beauty of a message board. 

Anti-mowbray sentiment? Behave. Its an opinion based on his anti-title comments

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I agree, but it seems some fans on here and on social media(even more than on here) are getting very upset about the possibility that we won't finish 1st. So upset in fact, that it is over shadowing what has been achieved. 

Nonsense. The complaint has been about apparently giving up on the Title quest just as it came in sight.

Now we need a Wigan failure and a win ourselves.

I think Wigan and their Chef will overCook on Saturday and implode leaving the door ajar again.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

12 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Anti-mowbray sentiment? Behave. Its an opinion based on his anti-title comments

I'd argue that ignoring the fact that our record this season pretty much our best ever whilst simultaneously jumping up on some anti title comments, is in fact the definition of anti-Mowbray sentiment. 

 

[Al]

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

We won promotion. Job done. Mission accomplished.

What have Liverpool won so far? Nowt. Their journey goes on.

They'll either win it or come second which is good enough according to a lot on here.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I'd argue that ignoring the fact that our record this season pretty much our best ever whilst simultaneously jumping up on some anti title comments, is in fact the definition of anti-Mowbray sentiment. 

 

I'd argue that inventing someone is ignoring Mowbray's achievements this season because they can't deal in isolation with the fact that Mowbray wasn't that bothered, by his own admission, about winning the title is the definition of a strawman.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

I'd argue that inventing someone is ignoring Mowbray's achievements this season because they can't deal in isolation with the fact that Mowbray wasn't that bothered, by his own admission, about winning the title is the definition of a strawman.

I'm with Mowbray on the title tbh, would've been nice but certainly not going to lose sleep over it. 

 

[roversfan99]

The most infuriating aspect of this whole debate, and in my opinion the reason why it has gone on, is the ignorance, either purposely or accidentally, of what the brunt of the argument actually is.

People are NOT saying that, looking at the start of the season, that 2nd place would have been considered a failure, nor will it be now.

People are NOT saying that Saturday in isolation is anything to get too made over, that Mowbray is pretending that players are injured, that we didnt play well enough or that the game should have been easy. The argument has NOTHING to do with it.

People are NOT saying that they are anything but grateful/impressed/delighted about the overall job that the manager and set of players have done.

Yet people defending Mowbray keep harping back to these points, either purposely to try and deride those who have made a valid point by taking them off on a tangent, or because the original argument of Mowbray etcs 

It is the ATTITUDE/DISREGARD towards winning the league, from a NO LOSE situation, whereby promotion has ALREADY been achieved.

@Bigdoggsteel apologies for picking you out, just because a few of your comments are on the last 2 pages, dont take it personally:

"Is it a bad season in your opinion if we don't come first? "

"getting very upset about the possibility that we won't finish 1st"

Also from @CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber

"not by changing the team around once we had been promoted"

These comments are examples, of what I mentioned before, the misunderstanding in regards to why people were annoyed. The annoyance originated from the media commens showing this attitude.

One additional thing. The Full Members Cup is something that Rovers fans seem to look back fondly upon, even now. I wasnt born when we won it, and wouldnt have heard of the competition had we not won it. So to imply that our fans wouldnt remember a League title in a couple of years is ignorant and quite frankly incorrect from the manager.

[philipl]

Are we arguing the injuries are not genuine?

[blueboy3333]

53 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I'm with Mowbray on the title tbh, would've been nice but certainly not going to lose sleep over it. 

 

And that was all you had to say. You didn't need to invent things.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, philipl said:

Are we arguing the injuries are not genuine?

Nope.

[Mattyblue]

Players have been carrying knocks, would most of them have played if we were still chasing promotion? Probably, but we weren’t, so every right to leave them out with the aim for the season accomplished.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Players have been carrying knocks, would most of them have played if we were still chasing promotion? Probably, but we weren’t, so every right to leave them out with the aim for the season accomplished.

Once Burnley hit 40 points, should they have rested any one with a knock with the main objective of getting them right for next season?

That said, that still isnt the point that people have been making, and I was tempted to leave the above line out to take away from that point.

The point is about the importance of a league title, and the attitude towards winning it.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Players have been carrying knocks, would most of them have played if we were still chasing promotion? Probably, but we weren’t, so every right to leave them out with the aim for the season accomplished.

How many did Wigan rest? Did Cook intimate he wasn't arsed about winning the league?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The point is about the importance of a league title, and the attitude towards winning it.

Exactly. Mowbray had won better things so he wasn't bothered. A very arrogant attitude. If he 'bounces' through the Championship that arrogance will be well founded. By his own admission he's done nowt at Rovers yet.

[Mattyblue]

Rovers99 - Because Burnley reached 40 points with about a third of the season to go, plus every position is worth big money etc etc.

Blueboy - Couldn’t care less about Wigan and I’m not particularly arsed about winning the third division title, so it’s why I’ve largely stayed out of this debate, I just thought I’d interject when it came to the injury issue.

 

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Rovers99 - Because Burnley reached 40 points with about a third of the season to go, plus every position is worth big money etc etc.

Blueboy - Couldn’t care less about Wigan and I’m not particularly arsed about winning the third division title, so it’s why I’ve largely stayed out of this debate, I just thought I’d interject when it came to the injury issue.

 

To clarify, as ive continued to state, my aggravation came not at all towards the team selection. Its solely an attitude based grievance.

It goes back to when Wigan won the FA Cup the other year, and the whole hypothetical debate came round, FA Cup or survival. Youd take the former any day.

Again, I dont want people to say promotion was already achieved, I know and as such, its become mutually exclusive from the whole issue. (Albeit, the reason the season as a whole is a huge success, before it gets leveled at me that im not happy with promotion in general, of course I am)

Your money comment, I feel like perhaps youve become slightly removed from the aim of professional sport! Whilst I appreciate the financial aspect as much as anyone, you dont remember the seasons in which you won 1m more in prize money. You remember trophies!

Ive pointed out before, but how have Rovers fans, never mind the manager, become so pompous towards league titles?!

Like I said, our fans seem to cherish when they won a Full Members Cup over 30 years ago, we are a town club, our trophy cabinet is hardly jam packed nor do we usually get into positions whereby we have a reasonable chance of winning a trophy, of any kind, a league title especially.

[Mattyblue]

I’m talking about why Dyche and his club wouldn’t want to make wholesale changes,   not that it means anything to fans.

Promotion was ESSENTIAL for this football club, I don’t even want to think about what getting stuck down here would have meant for the club’s future. So if not caring particularly about the title after we achieved our goal makes me ‘pompous’, then fair enough!

I was at Charlton, I wanted to win, I’d have taken the title, but we probably won’t do it now and I’ve moved on.  I just can’t relate to all this angst, sorry.

[philipl]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Nope.

Glad, are we saying Dack and Conway are trivial play through types of injuries?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, philipl said:

Glad, are we saying Dack and Conway are trivial play through types of injuries?

Straw man.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I think the feelings of the majority will be very apparent on Saturday when 25,000 fans will spend a lot of the match chanting Mowbray’s name, demand he give a wave etc. 

The records set this season will most likely never be broken IMO as we all hope to never again be in a division which has 24 teams in it. Those records will always have Mowbray’s name associated with them, which will be a far more fitting reflection of what he has achieved than the nit-picking on here.

Why do you always have to be “that guy”?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, Stuart said:

Why do you always have to be “that guy”?

Love the irony, Stuart!

[imy9]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Exactly. Mowbray had won better things so he wasn't bothered. A very arrogant attitude. If he 'bounces' through the Championship that arrogance will be well founded. By his own admission he's done nowt at Rovers yet.

Arrogant attitude? We shall have to agree to disagree. I think he has been very respectful of the opposition and has made sure that the players display a hardworking and positive ethos at all times, including the training ground- something he eluded to in the same article that is being seized upon now. I personally feel that if you read the whole article and not just the one line then you can appreciate what he meant.

We still have one game left so let’s see what happens.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Once Burnley hit 40 points, should they have rested any one with a knock with the main objective of getting them right for next season?

That said, that still isnt the point that people have been making, and I was tempted to leave the above line out to take away from that point.

The point is about the importance of a league title, and the attitude towards winning it.

You earned more money for finishing higher up the league. So its not the same as Rovers situation

59 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

To clarify, as ive continued to state, my aggravation came not at all towards the team selection. Its solely an attitude based grievance.

It goes back to when Wigan won the FA Cup the other year, and the whole hypothetical debate came round, FA Cup or survival. Youd take the former any day.

Again, I dont want people to say promotion was already achieved, I know and as such, its become mutually exclusive from the whole issue. (Albeit, the reason the season as a whole is a huge success, before it gets leveled at me that im not happy with promotion in general, of course I am)

Your money comment, I feel like perhaps youve become slightly removed from the aim of professional sport! Whilst I appreciate the financial aspect as much as anyone, you dont remember the seasons in which you won 1m more in prize money. You remember trophies!

Ive pointed out before, but how have Rovers fans, never mind the manager, become so pompous towards league titles?!

Like I said, our fans seem to cherish when they won a Full Members Cup over 30 years ago, we are a town club, our trophy cabinet is hardly jam packed nor do we usually get into positions whereby we have a reasonable chance of winning a trophy, of any kind, a league title especially.

wouldn't Wigan fans rather be playing Premier league football instead of winning a cup and playing league 1 football. 

are we talking about this issue still after a week of debate? Mowbray was open and honest about his comment regarding of League 1 title. I wasn't offended or upset but instead I understand his point of view.

we still get a trophy for finishing 2nd in the league  you know.  

I was say this one last time, the target for the promotion and this was achieved. just enjoyed what this season has been like and enjoy Saturday instead of nick picking  

[blueboy3333]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I was say this one last time, the target for the promotion and this was achieved. just enjoyed what this season has been like and enjoy Saturday instead of nick picking  

FFS!

[roversfan99]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You earned more money for finishing higher up the league. So its not the same as Rovers situation

wouldn't Wigan fans rather be playing Premier league football instead of winning a cup and playing league 1 football. 

are we talking about this issue still after a week of debate? Mowbray was open and honest about his comment regarding of League 1 title. I wasn't offended or upset but instead I understand his point of view.

we still get a trophy for finishing 2nd in the league  you know.  

I was say this one last time, the target for the promotion and this was achieved. just enjoyed what this season has been like and enjoy Saturday instead of nick picking  

If I was a Wigan fan, id have been happier to win the FA Cup.

The point in bold shows, contrary to your protestations, you still dont understand my and many others point. And its this ignorance and lack of acknowledgement, instead altering it to make it seem like im not happy with just promotion, is why the debate has run and run.

Promotion was prior to all of this, and dont worry, I will continue to enjoy our promotion on Saturday, so please dont imply that im not, and its ruined my season.