[Archived] THE BATTLE FOR PROMOTION....WON.

[JBiz]

8 hours ago, BiggusMickus said:

Read pages upon pages of touchy feely, namby pamby bullshit. The bottom line is, yes, we have been promoted and that's amazing. No-one could have asked for more when the season started and not one single person is disputing that is an amazing end to the season.

 

BUT.. We were within touching distance of a league title. Now, it may not be the Championship, it may not be a PL title, or may not even be a checkatrade title, but it is still another trophy that most have not won. And whilst it was mathematically possible, we should have been going all out for it. If not for anything but professional pride. If you are happy to settle for 2nd place, then no matter how many records you set in  getting there, you should be pissed off you didn't achieve the very best you were able to. "Settling" for 2nd is loser talk and any so called professional who settles for it should be questioned.

 

This is not saying:

I am not happy with promotion - I am

The starting line up was weak - it was ok considering squad fitness.

- The result was bad - we should have at least drawn judging by the reports. Others who were actually there can rightfully refute that.

- I am not accusing Mowbray of lying regarding injuries. The line up should still have had enough for at least a point. The formation is for another debate.

On the, admittedly, small, almost miniscule, point that the manager, players, club should have gone all out for whatever honours were available, the manager dismissed the importance of them in his interviews leading up to and after the game,  and we are favourites to lose out now.

Other than the likes of Graham, Raya, Mulgrew, Lenihan and Dack, when will the rest get the chance to genuinely challenge for silverware, even at this "lowly" level? Just because our entitled, PL winning, big club-esque fans see the L1 title as below them, doesn't mean it is irrelevant. Some at least want to win whatever is in front of them. The rest.. Well..

Congratulate the u23s for winning the second tier of the reserve league, against some teams that don’t operate a continuous unit, and generally use reserves, first teamers coming back from injury and players too old for u18s, but not ready for the first team.

...But only “thank” the first team. I’m afraid that disputes an “amazing” finish to the season. It’s one of many.

I actually agree with you, but you’ve obviously missed quite a few posts, because a few disregard it as an achievement, an extremely necessary one.

I don’t agree with the second bold sentence though. Bringing it back to the black and white “loser” or winner talk is just another example in a long line of others that completely disregards promotion as the “expected,” not success. Well, perhaps you and others see it as that but I don’t. You have to “win” promotion, and we deserved it. That accolade was our number one objective when the season started, and no matter what the interview/team selection was for Charlton, we’ve achieved the set target, with a little time to spare.

I was at the valley, and I can say I questioned a couple of the starting 11, but I couldn’t question the application, effort or performance. What does it normally say when the opposition managers comments are generally “we deserved the luck” and “the keeper was world class”?

So, understand I agree with much of what you are saying but the “touchy feel namby pamby bullshit” is a result of overreactions to comments in the press, and rather strange criticism of a few squad players. 

Scathing at the decision to use the backup keeper, and valueing his contribution by the simple equation; “he played For Shrewsbury” when they finished near the bottom...

You see why it’s Groundhog Day round here now?

[blueboy3333]

Is 'congratulating' better than 'thanking'? 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Congratulate the u23s for winning the second tier of the reserve league, against some teams that don’t operate a continuous unit, and generally use reserves, first teamers coming back from injury and players too old for u18s, but not ready for the first team.

...But only “thank” the first team. I’m afraid that disputes an “amazing” finish to the season. It’s one of many.

Can somebody bring back the ‘confused’ emoji for Joe?

You do realise the U23s WON their league, right? Unexpectedly, yet convincingly, against PL and Championship academies. That deserves a well done. You also realise that I’ve been supporting them all season and therefore have a bit more affinity than most?

Meanwhile, the first team were FAVOURITES to win the league and are now favourites to finish second. They’ve actually under-achieved, as far as the bookies are concerned (and probably saved them a load of payouts). However, it would be churlish not to show gratitude for getting the club back up. The minimum requirement.

Its such a shame you struggle to grasp simple concepts - like you and I not having the same opinion - and using each time as an opportunity to have a personal dig.

Groundhog day indeed.

[JBiz]

59 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Can somebody bring back the ‘confused’ emoji for Joe?

You do realise the U23s WON their league, right? Unexpectedly, yet convincingly, against PL and Championship academies. That deserves a well done. You also realise that I’ve been supporting them all season and therefore have a bit more affinity than most?

Precisely why you’d take Caddis and Leutwilers inclusion so personally.

Im surprised you haven’t stretched the anger you are feeling to Downing for Platt, Evans for Tomlinson and Samuel for Nuttall. 

We both know the reality he’d picked “your team” and we’d had a similar result - ultra criticism for bringing so many young lads in, maybe not from you though..(who am I kidding)

To-reiterate, I see promotion as an achievement. I see winning the PL2 reserve league as a stamp of excellence for our academy but it is in no way anything close to the achievement of actual first team success, ergo promotion.

There’s nothing confusing about that.

[Stuart]

6 minutes ago, Biz said:

Precisely why you’d take Caddis and Leutwilers inclusion so personally.

Im surprised you haven’t stretched the anger you are feeling to Downing for Platt, Evans for Tomlinson and Samuel for Nuttall. 

We both know the reality he’d picked “your team” and we’d had a similar result - ultra criticism for bringing so many young lads in, maybe not from you though..(who am I kidding)

To-reiterate, I see promotion as an achievement. I see winning the PL2 reserve league as a stamp of excellence for our academy but it is in no way anything close to the achievement of actual first team success, ergo promotion.

There’s nothing confusing about that.

I’ve said consistently that it was neither one thing nor the other which is why it was hugely disappointing - to me.

If you see 2nd as an achievement when we should, and could, have finished 1st then feel free to congratulate the team.

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

I’ve said consistently that it was neither one thing nor the other which is why it was hugely disappointing - to me.

If you see 2nd as an achievement when we should, and could, have finished 1st then feel free to congratulate the team.

In the context of the past few years, I find it “confusing” that anyone could see a reverse in fortunes as anything but an “achievement”!

At least when we sack Mowbray after your “ten game reset” we can hire someone who’s “won” something in your eyes.. DJ

[robbojohnno]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Can somebody bring back the ‘confused’ emoji for Joe?

You do realise the U23s WON their league, right? Unexpectedly, yet convincingly, against PL and Championship academies. That deserves a well done. You also realise that I’ve been supporting them all season and therefore have a bit more affinity than most?

Meanwhile, the first team were FAVOURITES to win the league and are now favourites to finish second. They’ve actually under-achieved, as far as the bookies are concerned (and probably saved them a load of payouts). However, it would be churlish not to show gratitude for getting the club back up. The minimum requirement.

Its such a shame you struggle to grasp simple concepts - like you and I not having the same opinion - and using each time as an opportunity to have a personal dig.

Groundhog day indeed.

You do realise there is a difference between being the bookies favourites and being odds on favourites? Ie the favourite in the national is around 10/1 so although favourite, it's unlikely to win. Us and Wigan were favourites but if I remember rightly only around 4 or 5/1. So the bookies had us favourites buts odds were actually AGAINST us winning League 1. If we were 4/5 to win the league you'd have a point. Sheff United were favourites to win this league for years and failed so stop being so negative on the achievement. It's not a miracle but it's a job well done to turn this sinking ship around.

[HowieFive0]

I think all this talk of finishing second being no great achievement has to stop especially today of all days. 24000 Rovers fans turning up today to celebrate promotion says that its a great achievement in my eyes ..lets enjoy today!

[Stuart]

Just now, Biz said:

In the context of the past few years, I find it “confusing” that anyone could see a reverse in fortunes as anything but an “achievement”!

At least when we sack Mowbray after your “ten game reset” we can hire someone who’s “won” something in your eyes.. DJ

We had the best squad in the division. It’s not really an “achievement” to do the minimum with it.

The jury is out for next season. If he carries on with his three at the back dream and we start by losing the majority of those games then it will strongly suggest that it was the players and not the manager who got us up.

Football isn’t a patient or sentimental sport. Managers know this and it’s why the average manegerial reign is about 14 months.

Of course I don’t want Mowbray out, he’s a good guy who fans can relate to, he has developed a great team spirit (or at least created an environment where it can flourish) and we need some consistency - especially in dealing with Venkys - but I’m not convinced he has learned what this team needs. His preferred tactics are unsuccessful, his substitutions usually late and poor, and his line ups sometimes bewildering. We got promoted when he went against his own preferred formation and as soon as that was done he reverted to type. It’s a concern.

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, robbojohnno said:

You do realise there is a difference between being the bookies favourites and being odds on favourites? Ie the favourite in the national is around 10/1 so although favourite, it's unlikely to win. Us and Wigan were favourites but if I remember rightly only around 4 or 5/1. So the bookies had us favourites buts odds were actually AGAINST us winning League 1. If we were 4/5 to win the league you'd have a point. Sheff United were favourites to win this league for years and failed so stop being so negative on the achievement. It's not a miracle but it's a job well done to turn this sinking ship around.

Sorry but there’s so much wrong with that post I can’t fashion a polite reply.

[Stuart]

Just now, HowieFive0 said:

I think all this talk of finishing second being no great achievement has to stop especially today of all days. 24000 Rovers fans turning up today to celebrate promotion says that its a great achievement in my eyes ..lets enjoy today!

Ask Biz to stop keep bringing it back up then.

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

His preferred tactics are unsuccessful, his substitutions usually late and poor, and his line ups sometimes bewildering. We got promoted when he went against his own preferred formation and as soon as that was done he reverted to type. 

I’m not sure how any body could see what I have in the past 15 months, and come up with that summary.

[Stuart]

Just now, Biz said:

I’m not sure how any body could see what I have in the past 15 months, and come up with that summary.

I can’t help you then matey. It happened. Maybe you missed it.

[JBiz]

6 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

I think all this talk of finishing second being no great achievement has to stop especially today of all days. 24000 Rovers fans turning up today to celebrate promotion says that its a great achievement in my eyes ..lets enjoy today!

Yea, precisely. An extra 12000 home fans have turned up to clap the u23s at HT..

[HowieFive0]

Just now, Stuart said:

Ask Biz to stop keep bringing it back up then.

We ve had seven days of this now its getting a tad tedious. We ve been promoted and the majority of fans are going to celebrate that fact.  It is an achievement ..promotion from any league is never a gimme ..a title too would be fantastic and could still be. From all accounts the team that played at Charlton gave a good account of themselves and were unlucky not to win. If Mowbray had played three players who were deemed not fit to play and we d got beat 4-0 then the board would have been in up roar. Again Charlton away was never a gimme regardless of what team  we put out.So all hypothetical really ..

[AllRoverAsia]

34 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

We ve had seven days of this now its getting a tad tedious. We ve been promoted and the majority of fans are going to celebrate that fact.  It is an achievement ..promotion from any league is never a gimme ..a title too would be fantastic and could still be. From all accounts the team that played at Charlton gave a good account of themselves and were unlucky not to win. If Mowbray had played three players who were deemed not fit to play and we d got beat 4-0 then the board would have been in up roar. Again Charlton away was never a gimme regardless of what team  we put out.So all hypothetical really ..

I gave up on this debate a couple of days ago, it's become more of a willy waving event.

So I agree with everything you say.

I hope Rovers get a win today in front of a bumber crowd and all Rovers staff, players and fans have a great day.

We are going to get the Title today too, alls well that ends well.

I have tested iFollow again today but still can't get video to work, same for Facebook, so looks like I'll follow on SSN

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I’ve said consistently that it was neither one thing nor the other which is why it was hugely disappointing - to me.

If you see 2nd as an achievement when we should, and could, have finished 1st then feel free to congratulate the team.

So I assume you didn't congratulate Kenny's team that tumbled from runaway leaders to scrambling into the play-offs on the last day of the season.  Don't know about you but I had a wonderful day at Wembley seeing us win promotion even if it was through the play-offs which some seem to think is a sign of failure.  Promotion is promotion and today will be another wonderful occasion.

[Stuart]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

So I assume you didn't congratulate Kenny's team that tumbled from runaway leaders to scrambling into the play-offs on the last day of the season.  Don't know about you but I had a wonderful day at Wembley seeing us win promotion even if it was through the play-offs which some seem to think is a sign of failure.  Promotion is promotion and today will be another wonderful occasion.

Rovers came out of nowhere and upset the odds - albeit aided by Jack’s investment. We were an unknown quantity.

This season we were favourites to finish first with the best squad.

But you already know this as you’ve documented it more than any of us.

I’ve been told this morning that this is getting tedious but it isn’t me who keeps bringing it back up again and again.

[Mattyblue]

To be fair after bringing in Mike Newell, Colin Hendry, Alan Wright, Gordon Cowans, Tim Sherwood, David Speedie, Kevin Moran, plus we already had Scott Sellars, Jason Wilcox etc, I’d say we were pretty strong contenders.

[Rover_Shaun]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

To be fair after bringing in Mike Newell, Colin Hendry, Alan Wright, Gordon Cowans, Tim Sherwood, David Speedie, Kevin Moran, plus we already had Scott Sellars, Jason Wilcox etc, I’d say we were pretty strong contenders.

Now you are being obtuse. Stuart is right that we were not one of the favourites from the start of that season. It was only really by October, when Kenny had bedded in, that we started splashing the cash big time. 

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

Yea, precisely. An extra 12000 home fans have turned up to clap the u23s at HT..

It’s really upset you, hasn’t it.

I’m flattered my opinion is so important to you but I think it’s time for you to stop now as it’s boring the pants off everyone else.

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Rover_Shaun said:

Now you are being obtuse. Stuart is right that we were not one of the favourites from the start of that season. It was only really by October, when Kenny had bedded in, that we started splashing the cash big time. 

Then we were favourites.

Where we favourites this October after defeat at Oldham and we were 12 points adrift?

[Stuart]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Then we were favourites.

Where we favourites this October after defeat at Oldham and we were 12 points adrift?

It’s about context though Matty. Before Kenny rocked up we had been knocking on the play-off door but never doing enough. Winning the play-offs was therefore the height of our achievements at that time. Of course that would be seen as a success. The whole club was never a division three level outfit but is at a different level now to how it was in the late 80s.

The point you should have made was about 00/01 when we were runners up. But back then we didn’t have the kind of bitterness between fans that we have now. Complaints were limited to the manager and players. There wasn’t even a ‘sack the board’ to be heard. Even then we had already missed out once and I remember the feeling was more of relief. But, again, nobody is unhappy about promotion.

Also, to answer your point, we were 12 points adrift because the manager was slow to learn. At the earliest safe opportunity he went back to that losing formula - and lost. It’s not ideal.

Round and round we go! ?

[Mattyblue]

We may have had this debate if we’d have been close to Fulham, but after they bolted  off, it was only really ever a fight for second with Bolton.

[Stuart]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

We may have had this debate if we’d have been close to Fulham, but after they bolted  off, it was only really ever a fight for second with Bolton.

Which is precisely the point I’ve made since we were promoted.

Would Souness have played a bit part team if we were within touching distance of being first? Somehow I doubt it.