[Archived] THE BATTLE FOR PROMOTION....WON.

[Vinjay]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

What date is the donny game?

DONCASTER. 24th.

[Cherry Blue]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

What date is the donny game?

Tuesday 24th April

[Vinjay]

1 hour ago, Vinjay17 said:

Rover_Shaun is still right though. He didn't say Dunn wasn't talented either.

 

Should point out I meant "as a player". No doubt that's what Shaun was referring to when he said Dunn wasted his potential. Hiring him as a coach though is more foolish than inviting Hannibal Lecter over for dinner. 

 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Vinjay17 said:

...or the old git supporting FUP and anyone who has a problem with my views on that can sod off. They just happened to be the opposition the night Rovers were relegated in 2012 though. Would you want karma on Brentford because they didn't concede more goals? United didn't relegate Rovers in 1999 either and they were hardly celebrating a draw given their own circumstances that night. As you say though promotion (preferably automatic and nobody is gonna be smashing up Ewood for finishing 2nd) for Rovers the key thing. Can't do anything about Wigan anyway especially at this stage.

I pretty much conceded the title to Wigan at the start of this season anyway. OK maybe "conceded" is a bit strong but I did consider them favourites. Did say that I considered Rovers equal favourites recently. No guarantee Wigan will win all their remaining games though.

Very strange attitude for someone whose so vociferous on Liverpool fans being understandably content at drawing the weakest of the remaining other 3 teams in the competition.

[Vinjay]

56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Very strange attitude for someone whose so vociferous on Liverpool fans being understandably content at drawing the weakest of the remaining other 3 teams in the competition.

I've changed my mind haven't I and how putting the rest in bold? Also Liverpool are in a knockout competition where each team (and fans) should be confident at this stage. Coming off QFs where Liverpool just beat City and Roma beat Barcelona (not to mention Juventus nearly making that comeback) it seems disrespectful for their fans to make such remarks. Rovers were coming off a relegation season forgive me if positive attitude wasn't shooting through the roof. That said my main concern was how many clubs might challenge for automatic promotion. I thought at least one other threat besides Wigan (albeit uncertain who it could be) may prove to be a problem for Rovers. With Shrewsbury still hanging around I was right. My worst case scenario would have been finishing outside the playoffs. I wasn't too worried about the more realistic concern was missing out on automatic promotion. Argued with one fan (as far back as September) who thought Rovers might get relegated this season though! . He wasn't trying to wind anyone up either. Some of you will recognise pommyt87 (twitter username) as someone who's had far more serious problems (surviving bone cancer) than watching Rovers in recent years.

[47er]

10 hours ago, Butty said:

Don't know why Dack's girlfriend is even a topic of discussion. Yes she's in the limelight (barely) but he's not the first professional footballer to have a "celebrity" for a girlfriend, it's down to the player himself to be a dedicated pro and if he isn't then that's on him not his Mrs. Dack has been unreal this season and to suggest he's gone off the boil after two performances, one in which he was playing with an injury is nonsense. This lad could be playing in the prem in the future and it's down to him to make it happen and if he's a dedicated professional and scores a couple tomorrow as a start then he can s**g who he wants as the song goes!  

Remember that Birmingham away game when Dunny escorted his Sun pin-up model round the pitch and deposited her in the middle of the Rovers fans behind the goal?

Some stir that caused among the faithful!

[dingles staying down 4ever]

9 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Could that be as he's not good enough? I'm not saying he is or isn't (don't know enough about the guy) but since it's you saying it that's my initial suspicion. Plus Karanka is a manager who's been promoted (from the Championship) more recently than Mowbray. Then again whatever happens it's hardly comparable to Peter Reid selling Colin Hendry and rating Keith Curle more highly. Wonder why Reid didn't ask himself why someone like Dalglish wanted him? Bit of a random example I guess but something that crossed my mind earlier for some reason.

It didn't really concern Reid as we were in the division below at the time. Various rumours went around the City fans at the time as to why Reid didn't want Hendry but he sold a player he did not want to a lower league club not matter who the manager of lower league club was.

[Pedro]

12 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Rover_Shaun is still right though. He didn't say Dunn wasn't talented either.

 

I haven't read what he put.  I was just making a statement. Dack has been excellent but I'm just saying he isn't anywhere as talented as Dunn was.  Dunn was a cracking player and proved it at Premier League level, not many appreciate what he did for Rovers and love to talk him down, which is a shame.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

He could have been an even better player if he'd have looked after himself.

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He could have been an even better player if he'd have looked after himself.

Alas why several rovers fans my age always feel that Dunny was a bit of a prat. More interested in chatting your bird up in Harwood or Accy town centre than being top shape for Saturday. Wouldn’t have been as frustrating if he hadn’t spend 25% of his career out injured.

Still a legend though. I think Dack is naturally talented in a similar way but would take us two promotions to even start discussing them in the same mould. 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

52 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He could have been an even better player if he'd have looked after himself.

Souness was proved right

[Pedro]

25 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Souness was proved right

I will always appreciate what he did for us but Souness himself became a prat. His attitude and ego clashing helped cost us the likes of Dunn and another massively underrated ex-Rover - Cole.  If memory serves me correctly, we couldn't believe our luck when Newcastle paid us for his services as things were souring fast at Rovers.  Then Hughes stepped in and developed us into an excellent team.  

Dunn could have been much better managed but regardless, he would've flown the Ewood nest for a while.  He was capable of playing for a much better teams than Birmingham and the 00's Rovers but terrible injuries put paid to that.  I personally always saw the opinions about his model and actress girlfriends etc. and his Gt Harwood playboy lifestyle ? as jealousy. He was lame in the Billy big time stakes.

[Rover_Shaun]

Cole? Don't you mean the laziest Rover ever, Yorke?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Rover_Shaun said:

Cole? Don't you mean the laziest Rover ever, Yorke?

Yorke wasn't under rated,  not by me anyway. I thought he was crap at Ewood and he was.

[Vinjay]

Not jealous of Dunn at all. Shouldn't we be jealous of countless players if that's the case? It's more his ego and strutting around the place like he owns it making everything about himself. I don't like the way local players are often treated with favortism (the criticism Allardyce got when he accepted a ridiculously large bid for Derbyshire was absurd) but that's not jealousy. I've never had any aspirations of playing for Rovers because my footballing ability is absolutely terrible even by regular standards. Micro managing and running the place with an iron fist on the other hand... 

While you can't dispute he's an egomaniac himself (with good reason in comparison) Souness was completely justified in the manner he handled Dunn. People claim he had poor man management but there's different cases and Dunn was one he dealt with correctly. Look at how he handled Jansen who was always talented but initially rather selfish in his playing style. Dunn's an egotist who manipulates and considers himself on a par with Jack Walker. When he made his egotistical leaving statement it was so telling that he suggested he could return as manager. At that point he hadn't done a damn thing to justify such talk and it was obvious he would fail at Oldham. I should have bet £1000 on it (and posted a screenshot of the betting slip) just to illustrate the strength of such feeling. He's an absolutely terrible role model for younger players and he's only here because he came crawling back for a job. That was the downside of his firing at Oldham. The sense of inevitability he would return here. You can claim this is making it "all about me and my grudges" but several people feel just as strongly about Dunn's egotism as I do. 

As for Reid he should have thought twice when Dalglish made a bid for Hendry. I don't agree with any notion that he shouldn't have been concerned whether it was the right thing. Perhaps he thought he was a better manager. If so how wrong was that?

[Pedro]

1 hour ago, Rover_Shaun said:

Cole? Don't you mean the laziest Rover ever, Yorke?

Cole was a fantastic player for us and a real loss. Before he signed, I didn't realise how good he was at holding the ball up, shrugging a man off and getting into space.  Fantastic striker.

Yorke was lazy and didn't seem to care if he scored or not.  Gifted player though but another waste of talent.

[Pedro]

18 minutes ago, Vinjay17 said:

Not jealous of Dunn at all. Shouldn't we be jealous of countless players if that's the case? It's more his ego and strutting around the place like he owns it making everything about himself. I don't like the way local players are often treated with favortism (the criticism Allardyce got when he accepted a ridiculously large bid for Derbyshire was absurd) but that's not jealousy. I've never had any aspirations of playing for Rovers because my footballing ability is absolutely terrible even by regular standards. Micro managing and running the place with an iron fist on the other hand... 

While you can't dispute he's an egomaniac himself (with good reason in comparison) Souness was completely justified in the manner he handled Dunn. People claim he had poor man management but there's different cases and Dunn was one he dealt with correctly. Look at how he handled Jansen who was always talented but initially rather selfish in his playing style. Dunn's an egotist who manipulates and considers himself on a par with Jack Walker. When he made his egotistical leaving statement it was so telling that he suggested he could return as manager. At that point he hadn't done a damn thing to justify such talk and it was obvious he would fail at Oldham. I should have bet £1000 on it (and posted a screenshot of the betting slip) just to illustrate the strength of such feeling. He's an absolutely terrible role model for younger players and he's only here because he came crawling back for a job. That was the downside of his firing at Oldham. The sense of inevitability he would return here. 

As for Reid he should have thought twice when Dalglish made a bid for Hendry. I don't agree with any notion that he shouldn't have been concerned whether it was the right thing. Perhaps he thought he was a better manager. If so how wrong was that?

I'll take that on board but without being rude, you don't half seem to have some really disproportionate bitterness towards some people at the club who I feel have been really good servants. (Williams, Dunn to name a couple).  

[Vinjay]

8 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Cole was a fantastic player for us and a real loss. Before he signed, I didn't realise how good he was at holding the ball up, shrugging a man off and getting into space.  Fantastic striker.

Yorke was lazy and didn't seem to care if he scored or not.  Gifted player though but another waste of talent.

Yeah not like he won any trophies at the highest level. . OK Dunn won the League Cup but you know what I mean...

Yorke wasted the rest of his career with his laziness after leaving United. He showed signs of that towards the end of his time there. From his standpoint though he could afford to waste it and look back without any real regrets in terms of medals. He was at Villa for a while and United were heavily questioned for paying such a fee. To be fair to those critics did he really look like someone (at that time) who would be part of a treble winning campaign including the Champions League? I hadn't seen that level of potential and I'm speaking as someone who knew Duff would be a star player in 99-2000. Of course I watched Duff far more closely than Yorke at Villa but still...

If you want to talk about ex Villa strikers and waste of potential Stan Collymore stands out. Truly world class ability (John Gregory of all people said he should have been better than Henry) but he rarely showed it. OK he did well at Forest and he wasn't a disaster at Liverpool but he won nothing.

[Tom]

1 hour ago, Rover_Shaun said:

Cole? Don't you mean the laziest Rover ever, Yorke?

On a related note young Devante has played a total of 6 minutes for Wigan since his move in January!

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Just now, Tom said:

On a related note young Devante has played a total of 6 minutes for Wigan since his move in January!

To be fair Amari Bell hasn't played that many more for us.

[Vinjay]

5 minutes ago, Tom said:

On a related note young Devante has played a total of 6 minutes for Wigan since his move in January!

Still think the best argument for Rovers signing him (can remember Chaddy suggesting it before he joined Wigan) would be to get revenge on his Father by sabotaging his sons career. The main reason being not warning Williams, etc when he heard rumours about Steve Kean. Spiteful certainly but people will never forgive Kean so we shouldn't forgive the people who facilitated his "rise" either.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Still think the best argument for Rovers signing him (can remember Chaddy suggesting it before he joined Wigan) would be to get revenge on his Father by sabotaging his career. The main reason being not warning Williams, etc when he heard rumours about Steve Kean. Spiteful certainly but people will never forgive Kean so we shouldn't forgive the people who facilitated his "rise" either.

It wouldn't have mattered really. I can't imagine Williams had any control over who the club was sold to.

Anyway, this is the promotion thread, recrimination corner is elsewhere.

[Vinjay]

7 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

It wouldn't have mattered really. I can't imagine Williams had any control over who the club was sold to.

It mattered on principle and at the very least would have stopped Williams being completely blindsided. Before Allardyce was sacked there was no public indication Williams distrusted Venkys. Though I think it was sometime between the takeover date and Allardyce's firing when he and Finn discovered Venkys had no idea what relegation was. 

As for your remark Pedro my "bitterness" towards Williams is nowhere near as scathing as Dunn. There was a time when my attacks were more venomous but that was toned down years ago. Nicknaming him "Saint John" was because people practically worshipped him with Philipl in particular claiming he and the WFIT were incapable of experiencing relegation. What rubbish that's been proven to be. Like many though (including several people on here) he carries responsibility over not standing up to the WFIT. That's the main one and there's other issues as well but people want me to shorten my posts. 

So...promotion?

[47er]

I do think you go over too much old ground too often Vinjay. Its like you can't let go.What has happened at Rovers happened to us all, its not personal to you.

[Vinjay]

22 minutes ago, 47er said:

I do think you go over too much old ground too often Vinjay. Its like you can't let go.What has happened at Rovers happened to us all, its not personal to you.

It is with the WFIT and some other things. As for the rest fair enough.