Season Tickets 2018/19

[only2garners]

4 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Employing Steve Kean was ridiculous. I'm just asking not to be charged a fee for replacing a card that I've already paid for once.

So,If they charge me a fee I wasn't aware of for replacing a ST that was stolen from me I consider that being robbed.

You may think it's acceptable, but even just from a customer service point of view, I don't...especially when that fee seems to be discretionary anyway.

You might think a fee is not justified or you might think £10 is too much, but no way can you argue that you're being robbed.

[Stuart]

The charge is disproportionate to the costs involved.

With other services there are other options available. You don’t have to get the train, you could get a bus or taxi. You are just a customer and for the service you have to accept being ripped of because the institutions involved invariably don’t give a stuff about customers or loyalty.

This is a football club where you can’t just go elsewhere, loyalty is much more a factor and those in charge should be looking at the fan base a little more than simply as customers who ‘should pay just like with any other service’. I’d be fine with penalising those who take the mick and keep asking for new cards because it fell under the bed but come on a bit of pragmatism please.

Ultimately people need to take more care of their tickets but it’s just another symptom of the lack of affinity with the fans and the opposite direction to what most of us would like, which is to try everything they can to get people into the ground.

Our walk-on prices now are prohibitive and don’t encourage new or casual attendees.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, only2garners said:

You might think a fee is not justified or you might think £10 is too much, but no way can you argue that you're being robbed.

I just have and eloquently so!.

All fees should be notified in advance. They weren't. These fees are also discretionary dependant on who you speak to. I'll stick with robbed.

[Stuart]

9 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Employing Steve Kean was ridiculous. I'm just asking not to be charged a fee for replacing a card that I've already paid for once.

So,If they charge me a fee I wasn't aware of for replacing a ST that was stolen from me I consider that being robbed.

You may think it's acceptable, but even just from a customer service point of view, I don't...especially when that fee seems to be discretionary anyway.

On that score, it is actually in the T&Cs that you signed up to.

My beef is that it is punitive and doesn’t fit the needs of a football club in 2018 where TV coverage is putting more and more people off and more should be done to get fans attending and on side.

[blueboy3333]

4 minutes ago, Stuart said:

On that score, it is actually in the T&Cs that you signed up to.

I renewed in the club shop. I didn't sign anything, nor was I made aware that a replacement ST would cost £10. All potential fees should be disclosed in advance as far as I am aware. The lady on the phone yesterday said the charge was because of the new cards being 'expensive'. This appears to be false. For others the charge isn't levied. They seem to be making it up as they go along. 

My gym tried to charge me £6 to replace their card. I informed them the choice was charge £6 or lose the £400 a year I pay them to remain a fat b@st@rd. They relented.  

[chaddyrovers]

The 10 pounds has been in place for a number of years. Most cards required a payment if you lose your card. 

[Vinjay]

58 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The 10 pounds has been in place for a number of years. Most cards required a payment if you lose your card. 

...and by a number of years would that include pre 2010? I would assume that ever since the cards started being used (think it might have been 04-05 season) fees have existed at the very least. I would imagine a considerable percentage of lost cards are dropped in and around the stadium anyway. The sweepers, etc presumably keep a look out for this kind of thing.

Has anyone who's lost their card under such circumstances (perhaps more than once) received a call from the club? I'm sure some people think they call up a certain percentage of lost card holders just to "look honest" but even for paranoid people like me running such a scheme for a few extra tenners seems a bit piddly. I wouldn't post back lost cards (bit contradictory on the "piddly" front perhaps) as policy though they would have to collect them on matchday (or whenever). 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Vinjay17

[DeeCee]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

I renewed in the club shop. I didn't sign anything, nor was I made aware that a replacement ST would cost £10. All potential fees should be disclosed in advance as far as I am aware. The lady on the phone yesterday said the charge was because of the new cards being 'expensive'. This appears to be false. For others the charge isn't levied. They seem to be making it up as they go along. 

My gym tried to charge me £6 to replace their card. I informed them the choice was charge £6 or lose the £400 a year I pay them to remain a fat b@st@rd. They relented.  

Talk about cut off your nose to spite your face?

Doesn't really matter if you've lost it or used it to mix car body filler, its £10 to replace.

I'll pay the tenner to replace your ST, providing you give it to someone who would be more appreciative of it.

[blueboy3333]

40 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

Talk about cut off your nose to spite your face?

No idea what that means in relation to my post?

41 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

Doesn't really matter if you've lost it or used it to mix car body filler, its £10 to replace.

 Not particularly relevant but a fair assessment.

43 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

I'll pay the tenner to replace your ST, providing you give it to someone who would be more appreciative of it.

It's a deal. Send me tenner and I'll do the rest. Promise.  

[DeeCee]

I need more convincing than that

[blueboy3333]

 

27 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

I need more convincing than that

If Chaddy has me on ignore why is he laughing at something ( the post I've quoted) which can only be understood in the context of my earlier post that this is a response to?

Billy bullshit.

Edited September 13, 2018 by blueboy3333

[Paul]

On 13/09/2018 at 18:56, blueboy3333 said:

It's not really the same. If you don't get a new DL, for example, I presume you're breaking the law. My ST is a luxury. If they impose a £10 charge on me I may impose a £400 charge on them by not renewing. We all have choices. 

It's precisely the same. The item is lost and there is a replacement cost. Whether or not one choses to break the law by not replacing a driving licence is irrelevant as it's a separate and personal decision. You can similarly chose to stop watching Rovers by not replacing your ST - the only difference being legality.

Apparently the £10 charge is in the T&C's. Like the vast majority I've never read these, you haven't as you'd be aware of the charge. The T&C's will be published by the club. You complain you weren't informed of these charges. Do you want to be read out a series of statements when you purchase a ticket as is the case with insurance etc? That's the alternative. It simply would not work. Imagine buying a match ticket over the phone?

As a general point, rather than the specific ST charge, the club is a business. It needs to do all it can to at least cover costs. It seems a section of the support find this unreasonable and expect those costs to be funded elsewhere. Every effort to cover costs is criticised by those who believe they know better ways to run a football club. I'm still waiting to see concrete proposals on this.

It makes no sense and is unrealistic to expect the club to be run in any fashion other than attempting to cover costs.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Paul

[Stuart]

Football is not just a business though. That’s the issue.

[blueboy3333]

22 minutes ago, Paul said:

t's precisely the same. The item is lost and there is a replacement cost. Whether or not one choses to break the law by not replacing a driving licence is irrelevant as it's a separate and personal decision. You can similarly chose to stop watching Rovers by not replacing your ST - the only difference being legality.

Exactly, so it's not the same.

23 minutes ago, Paul said:

Apparently the £10 charge is in the T&C's. Like the vast majority I've never read these, you haven't as you'd be aware of the charge. The T&C's will be published by the club. You complain you weren't informed of these charges. Do you want to be read out a series of statements when you purchase a ticket as is the case with insurance etc? That's the alternative. It simply would not work. Imagine buying a match ticket over the phone?

My point was about informing the customer of any future charges. All they have to do is say 'It costs £10 to replace a lost ST card'. Simple really. As for T&C's when purchasing other products over the phone (like insurance) I've been asked before if I would like the T&C's to be read over the phone.

28 minutes ago, Paul said:

As a general point, rather than the specific ST charge, the club is a business. It needs to do all it can to at least cover costs. It seems a section of the support find this unreasonable and expect those costs to be funded elsewhere. Every effort to cover costs is criticised by those who believe they know better ways to run a football club. I'm still waiting to see concrete proposals on this.

Concrete proposals on what? 

29 minutes ago, Paul said:

It makes no sense and is unrealistic to expect the club to be run in any fashion other than attempting to cover costs.

You know the actual cost to Rovers replacing a ST? Where was this information? 

I expect the football club to be run in an open and transparent way when it comes to charging it's customers for replacing a ST. Also, it is surely reasonable when you've supported the club for decades and never lost a ST before that the club might show some common sense in not alienating it's fanbase. Brand Rovers is damaged. They are lucky anyone turns up after the last 8 years.

Also, and this is important, If the club was a real 'business' it would have gone bust a long time ago. It isn't, it's a football club that relies on the support of the community who are loyal to the club and the funding of the owners. I won't go somewhere else when they raise prices like I would with a real business. The club, like every other club,  takes advantage of that loyalty.  My gym tried to charge me to replace their membership card, I told them I'd go elsewhere. They replaced the card for free because they worked out it would cost them a lot more in the long run if they charged me for it. That is a true business. If Rovers was a true business they would have to do the same. Much like the DVLA, you can't get a DL anywhere else so you have to pay the charge if you lose it.

On a more general point there seems to be a section of the support who will accept anything the club do out of blind loyalty. 

 

 

[blueboy3333]

7 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Football is not just a business though. That’s the issue.

If it was we'd have all gone elsewhere a long time ago. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Football is not just a business though. That’s the issue.

Football has always be a business Stuart. 

1 hour ago, Paul said:

It's precisely the same. The item is lost and there is a replacement cost. Whether or not one choses to break the law by not replacing a driving licence is irrelevant as it's a separate and personal decision. You can similarly chose to stop watching Rovers by not replacing your ST - the only difference being legality.

Apparently the £10 charge is in the T&C's. Like the vast majority I've never read these, you haven't as you'd be aware of the charge. The T&C's will be published by the club. You complain you weren't informed of these charges. Do you want to be read out a series of statements when you purchase a ticket as is the case with insurance etc? That's the alternative. It simply would not work. Imagine buying a match ticket over the phone?

As a general point, rather than the specific ST charge, the club is a business. It needs to do all it can to at least cover costs. It seems a section of the support find this unreasonable and expect those costs to be funded elsewhere. Every effort to cover costs is criticised by those who believe they know better ways to run a football club. I'm still waiting to see concrete proposals on this.

It makes no sense and is unrealistic to expect the club to be run in any fashion other than attempting to cover costs.

Very good sensible post. 

You are right that not many people actually read the terms and conditions much as they should. It been in there for years. 

It pretty standard these days if you lose your card you have to pay for a replacement. 

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Football has always be a business Stuart. 

Very good sensible post. 

You are right that not many people actually read the terms and conditions much as they should. It been in there for years. 

It pretty standard these days if you lose your card you have to pay for a replacement. 

I think you’ve missed his point. It’s hardly a regular business where you determine your spend by satisfaction of product, is it! Some do ( @gumboots will have an opinion on it!) but generally we’d all have been changing product or brands, if it had started to sell mouldy chips, dodgy paint or sold us bad advice!

On the card, I don’t think it’s such a bad cost personally - however BB has a point if it wasn’t mentioned in the small print of the application.

 

[gumboots]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

I think you’ve missed his point. It’s hardly a regular business where you determine your spend by satisfaction of product, is it! Some do ( @gumboots will have an opinion on it!) but generally we’d all have been changing product or brands, if it had started to sell mouldy chips, dodgy paint or sold us bad advice!

On the card, I don’t think it’s such a bad cost personally - however BB has a point if it wasn’t mentioned in the small print of the application.

 

And why would I have an opinion on that? 

[JBiz]

52 minutes ago, gumboots said:

And why would I have an opinion on that? 

You’ve regularly chipped in with your view on standard/enjoyment factor. No offence intended.

[gumboots]

I don't not attend because it's not interesting. I stopped attending because a combination of factors (closure of my stand, retirement meaning I was missing more and more matches, my husband's reluctance to attend,  poor quality product, enjoyment of other sports, family life) meant I reached my tipping point. Enjoyment of the actual football was a small part of it. If it mattered that much, I'd have been back last season when Rovers rediscovered how to win. 

 

[Vinjay]

Venkys haven't exactly brought boredom to the club have they? So I'm not sure why people would say it's not interesting unless they feel it's related to what they see on the field. Start of this season included fans have left Ewood in past year pleased more often than not. Personally I find football to be stressful and mentally exhausting though I certainly don't see Rovers as boring. There are some boring elements but it's not like WBA/Stoke who were both boring clubs albeit less so since being dragged into relegation battles. Maybe a little bit occasionally in the later years of the WFIT regime but of course attendance was higher then. Obviously many would return primarily on the basis of EPL promotion.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Vinjay17

[gumboots]

You can't deny that at times the football under Bowyer got very dull and under Lambert it was dire too. It's a sport and results driven but there is also a desire for entertainment too. Most fans are satisfied with being bored but winning rather than entertained but losing. I was for a long time. But when we stopped winning too then the product on offer was very dull. 

[roversfan99]

6 hours ago, Paul said:

It's precisely the same. The item is lost and there is a replacement cost. Whether or not one choses to break the law by not replacing a driving licence is irrelevant as it's a separate and personal decision. You can similarly chose to stop watching Rovers by not replacing your ST - the only difference being legality.

Apparently the £10 charge is in the T&C's. Like the vast majority I've never read these, you haven't as you'd be aware of the charge. The T&C's will be published by the club. You complain you weren't informed of these charges. Do you want to be read out a series of statements when you purchase a ticket as is the case with insurance etc? That's the alternative. It simply would not work. Imagine buying a match ticket over the phone?

As a general point, rather than the specific ST charge, the club is a business. It needs to do all it can to at least cover costs. It seems a section of the support find this unreasonable and expect those costs to be funded elsewhere. Every effort to cover costs is criticised by those who believe they know better ways to run a football club. I'm still waiting to see concrete proposals on this.

It makes no sense and is unrealistic to expect the club to be run in any fashion other than attempting to cover costs.

I personally dont see a massive problem to charge people for losing season ticket cards, in that its a system thats been in place for a while, rather than a policy that has been in place for a while, but I totally get why it rubs some peoples noses up the wrong way.

The issue is not in that people feel like the charge isnt properly advertised for me, if its in the T&C then legally theres nothing any of us can say, and I think its grasping at straws to suggest otherwise. Its the need to charge in general, recouping a minimal amount surely in the grand scheme of things, at the cost of our goodwill. As @blueboy3333 has said in his excellent post, the main thing at play here is unwavering customer loyalty in that we are in a fairly unique situation whereby there is no alternative product or service to choose from, therefore anyone who loses their season ticket card will obviously stump up the tenner.

The concrete proposal here would be not to charge the £10, as a very small showing of goodwill, its pretty simple. Maybe cap it, if you lose it three times or more in a season then maybe charge a tenner because there will obviously be very small costs associated with it. 

Regarding the sentence in bold, no one is saying on here that they know how to run the football club, just as if people offer constructive criticism against potential new signings without offering detailed scouting reports on alternative signings, or offer their opinions on team selections, they arent offering themselves forward to replace Mowbray. Just because none of us would be capable of running a football club or managing a Championship football side, it doesnt mean that we cant offer constructive opinions and its a really irritating argument to suggest that we cant, rendering the whole messageboard null and void.

My main gripes have been regarding the individual decisions that the club, headed by Waggott seemingly, have made off their own backs, rather than continuing this £10 charge that was in place back pre-Venkys. Closing the Darwen End, and significantly increasing season ticket prices at a point whereby supporter engagement with the club is at a high under the stewardship of these owners, stunting the potential to start getting fans back through the doors, are the 2 recent decisions that I feel were ones that bring Waggotts role, after taking responsibility for these, into potential question.

Edited September 15, 2018 by roversfan99

[Mattyblue]

From Monday night's fans forum...

4. Discounted Home Games TS asked whether the club was still considering discounting ticket prices for a future home game. SW replied that he expected that a game would be chosen in the near future. The club had been disappointed with the level of attendances at home games so far this season. There was some discussion about the possible reasons for this. It was clear that the fact that all Championship games not played on Saturdays at 3pm being shown live on Sky TV was having an effect on attendances across the league. Sky paid £100,000 to the home club for a live TV game and £10,000 to the away club but there were currently no extra payments for the other games now being shown. The fact that Rovers’ first three home games had been with teams with small away followings and the fourth had been live on Sky TV had not helped. There had also been difficulties with both local and national train services. RW asked whether the club would consider laying on coaches from various local communities for fans. This might help encourage more regular attendance. There was some discussion about this and SW agreed to consider the idea.

5. 2018-19 Season Ticket Sales TS asked whether the season ticket price rise had affected sales. SW replied that it was important that the club move away from the benefactor model towards a more financially self-sufficient basis. Whilst the cheap ticket policy in the Premier league had brought an increase in attendances it had made it more difficult to increase prices thereafter. SW stated that season tickets had been taken off sale after the Aston Villa game and that sales stood at 9,641. This was below the club’s stretch target of 10,500, although that target included half season ticket sales (typically around 300-400). 

https://www.rovers.co.uk/contentassets/72f15c4f64fc46be88e3fa7646577133/ff-minutes-17.9.18.pdf

 

So targets missed and they are 'disappointed' with crowds, let's hope they are being a little more forensic as to WHY  behind closed doors...

[MarkBRFC]

Probably just shrug there shoulders and whack another £50 on it next season.

Also, I bet nobody questioned Waggott on away fans needing the whole Darwen End for most of the games this season when the opening three games proved that to be nonsense, or the fact that had demand needed it, we would have given Villa the whole end despite apparently not being allowed to unless the game kicked off at 12:00.

I think somebody should at least question this at the next meeting.

Edited September 21, 2018 by MarkBRFC