[Archived] Gillingham complaints.

[arbitro]

8 hours ago, dring1 said:

I got told of his pa he was in meetings all day today and would phone me at 5pm monday. Has he said anything about compensating fans who travelled independant. As that was part of my email as well as how the game was postponed. They can do it for independant coach travel so rovers could meet half way and pay value of coach travel

We never spoke about compensating the fans who didn't travel by coach. I think this should be down to Gillingham and I will reiterate that to the EFL.

[dring1]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

We never spoke about compensating the fans who didn't travel by coach. I think this should be down to Gillingham and I will reiterate that to the EFL.

To be fair i think everything should be down to gillingham

[AllRoverAsia]

59 minutes ago, dring1 said:

To be fair i think everything should be down to gillingham

Spot on.

Good of Rovers to pay costs of some but in reality not their responsibility and it just let's Gillingham off the hook for the postponement caused by apparently their neglect for not doing any work on their tinpot Brain Moore Stand which is simply not fit for purpose. How it passes H&S tests is a mystery.

The only good thing to come out of this is that Rovers fans were not exposed to that creaking monstrosity on a windy freezing cold day. You would need to pay me loads to risk life and limb in it.

[arbitro]

I received this email from Supporter Services at the EFL this morning. Whilst going round the houses and trying to exonerate one of their member clubs they still haven't answered my question of why the game wasn't called off earlier. I have replied to this but I feel they are just paying lip service to what I believe is a genuine grievance. How patronising and irritating of them to say my comments have been noted.

I am going to contact the Football Ombudsman for their advice.

Hello Tony,

Thank you for your email, your comments have been noted.

We should clarify that match officials and club officials do very much take into account issues for spectators when it comes to postponing and abandoning games. That said, the circumstances surrounding the postponement of fixtures can inevitably mean making such decisions can be very challenging.

In relation to this particular game, there have been a number of articles written and published online which provide some details around the reasons for the postponement and steps taken on the morning of the game. Gillingham provided the following report here https://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/news/2018/march/blackburn-off/ including an image of the affected away stand. Blackburn Rovers have also posted the following article regarding the postponement here https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2018/march/club-statement-gillingham-postponement/ , and we understand that as of Wednesday 21st March, have said they will assisting supporters with free return travel to the rearranged game or a refund which can be read here https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2018/march/gillingham-ticket-and-travel-update/. 

Aside from what has already been reported we can confirm that the issue arose with the uncovered away stand at Gillingham which suffered in sub-zero conditions overnight. As the picture on the Gillingham website illustrates, there was a significant build-up of snow and ice on the seated open stand. Gillingham’s safety team worked on the problem areas in the stand throughout the morning, and during this time there were further coverings of snow with further snow showers forecast. Ultimately safety personnel agreed that conditions were unsafe and this was compounded by the fact that Blackburn fans were obviously going to be in an uncovered exposed stand. In collaboration with the match officials, and with officials from both clubs present, with further cold weather and potential snow forecast, the decision was made, as a health and safety precaution for spectators to postpone the match.

The option of relocating away supporters to another part of the stadium was considered but quickly ruled out due to Gillingham being unable to effectively and safely accommodate these, with the appropriate segregation, in other stands.

Ultimately, calling a game off is always difficult, officials and clubs like to give the fixture every possible chance of going ahead but there is always consideration for making a call at the most convenient time for supporters. Inevitably this is a challenging position to be in, and as has been witnessed in recent weeks, inclement conditions can present difficulties for all concerned.

Again, while we note your disappointment, and it is most unfortunate that a number of fans were inconvenienced, we trust that assists in providing some context to the decision.

Thank you for contacting the EFL.

Regards,

Andrew Pomfret
Supporter Services Department
EFL

[JHRover]

36 minutes ago, arbitro said:

The option of relocating away supporters to another part of the stadium was considered but quickly ruled out due to Gillingham being unable to effectively and safely accommodate these, with the appropriate segregation, in other stands.

 

I wonder whether they just take Gillingham's word for this or investigate whether this could have been done?

[arbitro]

15 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I wonder whether they just take Gillingham's word for this or investigate whether this could have been done?

I just think it's a lazy response with a quick search done to get links from Rovers and Gillinghams official statements. Nowhere is there evidence that they have been in direct contact with any Gillingham officials responsible for the decision. I have also challenged the comment about the referee being involved in the decision. In over 500 games at this level I was never asked for an opinion about anything other than the fitness of the pitch otherwise potentially litigious situations could arise and that is the club's responsibility. They are saying this to try and justify the ridiculous time the game was called off.

[oldjamfan1]

On 3/24/2018 at 07:03, arbitro said:

We never spoke about compensating the fans who didn't travel by coach. I think this should be down to Gillingham and I will reiterate that to the EFL.

Very poor if not unexpected response from the EFL Tony, but I have to say I am pleased that Steve Waggott took the time and trouble to ring you. That is a huge improvement on the experiences of the past few seasons. 

[JHRover]

Just now, arbitro said:

I just think it's a lazy response with a quick search done to get links from Rovers and Gillinghams official statements. Nowhere is there evidence that they have been in direct contact with any Gillingham officials responsible for the decision. I have also challenged the comment about the referee being involved in the decision. In over 500 games at this level I was never asked for an opinion about anything other than the fitness of the pitch otherwise potentially litigious situations could arise and that is the club's responsibility. They are saying this to try and justify the ridiculous time the game was called off.

Even if we accept that the away stand was hazardous and couldn't have been brought up to standard during the time between 8am in time for 3pm, I'm still struggling to understand why with some lateral thinking and perhaps minor inconvenience to a small number of Gillingham supporters that an alternative part of the ground couldn't have been opened up to accommodate the away support.

A quick search on google will confirm the capacity of the covered side stand is 2,500. This stand is usually partially open to away supporters when smaller numbers travel. Rovers had sold approx. 1200 tickets in advance so would require less than half the seating of that stand.

Then we get round to the time. I'm still trying to work out why the decision was left until 11:15am when conditions were no worse than they had been earlier in the morning. If the stand was the problem then it would have been a problem at 8am too. I arrived in Gillingham at 11am and there was no snow coming down which made it any worse.

I think these are the sort of questions the League should be putting to Gillingham. It appears the League is instead taking the easy route out by just accepting Gillingham's excuse that their ground doesn't have any other way of accommodating away fans when I suspect if they were determined enough to get the game on they could have safely done so. Unfortunately football seems to be run by people with no capacity for quick thinking or common sense and their standard response is to call the game off rather than think of alternatives.

[arbitro]

Just now, JHRover said:

Even if we accept that the away stand was hazardous and couldn't have been brought up to standard during the time between 8am in time for 3pm, I'm still struggling to understand why with some lateral thinking and perhaps minor inconvenience to a small number of Gillingham supporters that an alternative part of the ground couldn't have been opened up to accommodate the away support.

A quick search on google will confirm the capacity of the covered side stand is 2,500. This stand is usually partially open to away supporters when smaller numbers travel. Rovers had sold approx. 1200 tickets in advance so would require less than half the seating of that stand.

Then we get round to the time. I'm still trying to work out why the decision was left until 11:15am when conditions were no worse than they had been earlier in the morning. If the stand was the problem then it would have been a problem at 8am too. I arrived in Gillingham at 11am and there was no snow coming down which made it any worse.

I think these are the sort of questions the League should be putting to Gillingham. It appears the League is instead taking the easy route out by just accepting Gillingham's excuse that their ground doesn't have any other way of accommodating away fans when I suspect if they were determined enough to get the game on they could have safely done so. Unfortunately football seems to be run by people with no capacity for quick thinking or common sense and their standard response is to call the game off rather than think of alternatives.

And they used the forecast for mid afternoon as another reason to call this game off. On the Met Office website the forecast didn't change from Friday evening. This was another justifiable reason to make an early decision but they left it until past 11.

[darrenrover]

On 26/03/2018 at 14:49, arbitro said:

And they used the forecast for mid afternoon as another reason to call this game off. On the Met Office website the forecast didn't change from Friday evening. This was another justifiable reason to make an early decision but they left it until past 11.

The party of 16 I travelled down with won't be making the return date despite Rovers' offer to pay for the minibus. The days off work required put paid to that for most, in addition to failed attempts to find a minibus prepared to take us midweek.

[arbitro]

16 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

The party of 16 I travelled down with won't be making the return date despite Rovers' offer to pay for the minibus. The days off work required put paid to that for most, in addition to failed attempts to find a minibus prepared to take us midweek.

That's a shame Nick. Have the ones who can make it considered the official coaches?

[darrenrover]

11 minutes ago, arbitro said:

That's a shame Nick. Have the ones who can make it considered the official coaches?

There were 3 youngsters who understandably can't go and for the remainder the official coach travel doesn't appeal or warrant a couple of days off work.

I'm contemplating the train Tony but making the 11pm from Euston could prove difficult!

At the end of the day, had decisions been taken when they should have been, as you so correctly point out that nothing changed from Friday evening until 11.15am on Saturday, then none of us would be out of pocket.

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

There were 3 youngsters who understandably can't go and for the remainder the official coach travel doesn't appeal or warrant a couple of days off work.

I'm contemplating the train Tony but making the 11pm from Euston could prove difficult!

At the end of the day, had decisions been taken when they should have been, as you so correctly point out that nothing changed from Friday evening until 11.15am on Saturday, then none of us would be out of pocket.

There is a 9.50 from Gillingham to St Pancras which gets you in at 10.35. St Pancras is only ten minutes maximum walk to Euston. You will have to book that separately to the Manchester to London leg though Nick

[arbitro]

Below is a copy of the email I have just received from the IFO. I had no joy with the EFL, Gillingham, Rovers and now this organisation. My dealings with them confirm my opinion that football fans who spend a lot of money and time are still treated with contempt and disrespect.

Dear Mr Leake

I have now received comment from the EFL and can present my findings.



We all are frustrated when as supporters we find a match has been postponed on the day. In many cases the decision is taken much later than in the case you complain about. In one well known case, which led to many complaints to the IFO, a match at Newcastle during the Christmas period was called off when supporters were already in the stadium and the pitch was playable.  The sub-zero temperatures and the dangerous condition of the access routes led to the postponement. In that case as in yours public safety took precedence.



As far as I can see Gillingham made every effort to seek to play the match and put out the following statement

Gillingham’s Sky Bet League 1 fixture against Blackburn Rovers has been postponed.
Staff and volunteers worked tirelessly on Saturday morning to clear the affected areas, but to no avail.
Following an inspection by the match referee, despite the pitch being potentially playable, the amount of snow that has fallen has caused a health and safety concern for all supporters and the club, along with the referee and the police, were left with little choice but to postpone.
In addition more severe weather is expected before 3pm and the club wanted to make a decision at the earliest possible opportunity to inconvenience as few people as possible as conditions following the game, particularly for away fans, may have made travel dangerous.
A new date for the game will be arranged in due course.


The EFL strongly disputes your claim that their response to you was lazy and patronising.  They state that they provided you with the information which they had available at the time. The timing of the decision is difficult and clubs have been criticised in the past for calling off a match too soon  (eg Cardiff recently) and understandably try to make the necessary arrangements to allow the match to proceed. I am informed that the club considered relocating away supporters into a covered area of the stadium but were unable to implement the required segregation of home and away supporters.

I am satisfied that the referee, police and safety officials all had adequate opportunity to make their input before the decision was made.

I sympathise with the away supporters who had made a long and fruitless journey, but find no shortcomings in the way the club acted.  I am unable to uphold your complaint and will take no further action

Regards
PROFESSOR DEREK FRASER
OMBUDSMAN

[Rover_Shaun]

They all p1ss in the same pot

[EgyptianPete]

6 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Below is a copy of the email I have just received from the IFO. I had no joy with the EFL, Gillingham, Rovers and now this organisation. My dealings with them confirm my opinion that football fans who spend a lot of money and time are still treated with contempt and disrespect.

Dear Mr Leake

I have now received comment from the EFL and can present my findings.



We all are frustrated when as supporters we find a match has been postponed on the day. In many cases the decision is taken much later than in the case you complain about. In one well known case, which led to many complaints to the IFO, a match at Newcastle during the Christmas period was called off when supporters were already in the stadium and the pitch was playable.  The sub-zero temperatures and the dangerous condition of the access routes led to the postponement. In that case as in yours public safety took precedence.



As far as I can see Gillingham made every effort to seek to play the match and put out the following statement

Gillingham’s Sky Bet League 1 fixture against Blackburn Rovers has been postponed.
Staff and volunteers worked tirelessly on Saturday morning to clear the affected areas, but to no avail.
Following an inspection by the match referee, despite the pitch being potentially playable, the amount of snow that has fallen has caused a health and safety concern for all supporters and the club, along with the referee and the police, were left with little choice but to postpone.
In addition more severe weather is expected before 3pm and the club wanted to make a decision at the earliest possible opportunity to inconvenience as few people as possible as conditions following the game, particularly for away fans, may have made travel dangerous.
A new date for the game will be arranged in due course.


The EFL strongly disputes your claim that their response to you was lazy and patronising.  They state that they provided you with the information which they had available at the time. The timing of the decision is difficult and clubs have been criticised in the past for calling off a match too soon  (eg Cardiff recently) and understandably try to make the necessary arrangements to allow the match to proceed. I am informed that the club considered relocating away supporters into a covered area of the stadium but were unable to implement the required segregation of home and away supporters.

I am satisfied that the referee, police and safety officials all had adequate opportunity to make their input before the decision was made.

I sympathise with the away supporters who had made a long and fruitless journey, but find no shortcomings in the way the club acted.  I am unable to uphold your complaint and will take no further action

Regards
PROFESSOR DEREK FRASER
OMBUDSMAN

What snow, pictures showed little or no snow on the day, and no way did people try to clear the open away stand, as you could tell by pictures again no one had been near, i imagine the poor souls who got there can confirm. But well done for trying.

[Vinjay]

I hope people didn't spend too much in the concourse or whatever they call it there. Any chants about the postponement at the game?

[darrenrover]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

Below is a copy of the email I have just received from the IFO. I had no joy with the EFL, Gillingham, Rovers and now this organisation. My dealings with them confirm my opinion that football fans who spend a lot of money and time are still treated with contempt and disrespect.

Dear Mr Leake

I have now received comment from the EFL and can present my findings.



We all are frustrated when as supporters we find a match has been postponed on the day. In many cases the decision is taken much later than in the case you complain about. In one well known case, which led to many complaints to the IFO, a match at Newcastle during the Christmas period was called off when supporters were already in the stadium and the pitch was playable.  The sub-zero temperatures and the dangerous condition of the access routes led to the postponement. In that case as in yours public safety took precedence.



As far as I can see Gillingham made every effort to seek to play the match and put out the following statement

Gillingham’s Sky Bet League 1 fixture against Blackburn Rovers has been postponed.
Staff and volunteers worked tirelessly on Saturday morning to clear the affected areas, but to no avail.
Following an inspection by the match referee, despite the pitch being potentially playable, the amount of snow that has fallen has caused a health and safety concern for all supporters and the club, along with the referee and the police, were left with little choice but to postpone.
In addition more severe weather is expected before 3pm and the club wanted to make a decision at the earliest possible opportunity to inconvenience as few people as possible as conditions following the game, particularly for away fans, may have made travel dangerous.
A new date for the game will be arranged in due course.


The EFL strongly disputes your claim that their response to you was lazy and patronising.  They state that they provided you with the information which they had available at the time. The timing of the decision is difficult and clubs have been criticised in the past for calling off a match too soon  (eg Cardiff recently) and understandably try to make the necessary arrangements to allow the match to proceed. I am informed that the club considered relocating away supporters into a covered area of the stadium but were unable to implement the required segregation of home and away supporters.

I am satisfied that the referee, police and safety officials all had adequate opportunity to make their input before the decision was made.

I sympathise with the away supporters who had made a long and fruitless journey, but find no shortcomings in the way the club acted.  I am unable to uphold your complaint and will take no further action

Regards
PROFESSOR DEREK FRASER
OMBUDSMAN

Great effort Tony, a disappointing but predictable response.

I emailed Rovers, thanking them for their gesture and explaining that we would be unable to make the the return fixture at Gillingham because of difficulties in arranging a similar type coach on a weekday with similar cost constraints and the fact that people were struggling with getting time off work. I also explained that we would be running coaches from the Craven for remaining away games at MK, Bristol, Donny and Charlton. 

Sadly, I haven't had the courtesy of a reply, which I think is poor.

Anyway, on to Bristol and we always knew WE ARE The Rovers!!

 

[jim mk2]

Another example of treating fans with contempt is the Football League allowing Gillingham to have an away "stand" (a pile of scaffolding to be more precise) without a roof.  It wasn't too cold on Tuesday night but predictably it started raining during the second half making for a thoroughly miserable experience. Heavens knows what it's like when it's freezing cold and the wind is blowing.

Gillingham shouldn't have been given permission to treat away fans like this. They don't fill their ground anyway so away fans could easily have been allocated a section in one of the 3 other stands - similar to Oxford where the ground is also only open on 3 sides. 

[1864roverite]

I’ve no complaints gillingham is a hovel

[Vinjay]

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Another example of treating fans with contempt is the Football League allowing Gillingham to have an away "stand" (a pile of scaffolding to be more precise) without a roof.  It wasn't too cold on Tuesday night but predictably it started raining during the second half making for a thoroughly miserable experience. Heavens knows what it's like when it's freezing cold and the wind is blowing.

Gillingham shouldn't have been given permission to treat away fans like this. They don't fill their ground anyway so away fans could easily have been allocated a section in one of the 3 other stands - similar to Oxford where the ground is also only open on 3 sides. 

Maybe but I can't see why away supporters shouldn't be given the worst facilities. It's different at Ewood where fans who have been in the Riverside (old and "new") wouldn't be happy at being moved but this is a more recent (and claimed to be temporary) construction. I've also questioned the usage of the away fanzone that was used with some of the clubs who brought larger allocations recently. You don't need to roll out the red carpet for away fans as long as you pass safety tests and certain facility requirements. The away fans at Ewood by L1 standards should be happy enough with DE facilities as they are without any additional perks.

 I know you're an old man (didn't you have your location down as a nursing home before (?) you come across pretty independent to me) but younger fans shouldn't be too bothered about a bit of rain. At least it didn't start snowing though as Egyptian Pete said there was hardly any snow before! Could argue given treatment first time round Gillingham could have at least offered a free drink (including options for teetotal fans) though!