[Archived] Next season budget already in place

[tomphil]

We are always just a couple of weeks away from a monumental cock up with this lot I think it's worth bearing in mind. For all the talk of investing in players again there's also the likelihood of sales and money going to debt or running costs or whatever again and as we've seen a few dozen times if someone gets whispering in the right ears we could end up being loaded with rubbish again of frees and big wages with the usual connections.

God knows what would follow if Mowbray did get tempted away, massive massive summer coming up which could plot the course of the club for the next few years not just next season. If there is now a proper plan in place let's pray they follow  it to the letter.

[FGS5635]

Just now, tomphil said:

We are always just a couple of weeks away from a monumental cock up with this lot I think it's worth bearing in mind. For all the talk of investing in players again there's also the likelihood of sales and money going to debt or running costs or whatever again and as we've seen a few dozen times if someone gets whispering in the right ears we could end up being loaded with rubbish again of frees and big wages with the usual connections.

Got knows what would follow if Mowbray did get tempted away, massive massive summer coming up which could plot the course of the club for the next few years not just next season. If there is now a proper plan in place let's pray they follow  it too the letter.

Dont kill the good vibe

[tomphil]

Just now, FGS5635 said:

Dont kill the good vibe

The vibe is good and will continue if they stick to the plan

It's just a cautionary note, they've still a lot to prove and I don't necessarily mean chucking millions at it.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Neal said:

 

A few ways of looking at that, for some fans it might be what they want to hear and they do owe the supporters an honest apology. For many, their words are and will always be meaningless. Many will see through it and think it opportunistic to use a promotion from 2 leagues below where they took over to try and gain our respect/trust/forgiveness. At this point actions will be far more important. All things considered, it may be better for them to put up (the money), shut up and hopefully somewhere down the line, sell us to responsible business people. 

Oooh! hello, not heard much from you for A while. No offence intended but I hope It's another twelve months before we hear from you again as tbat would probably mean we've had another successful season! 

I think you'd have to have an extremely jaundiced viewpoint to consider an apology as being opportunistic. However whilst it would be quite nice if they came out and said something like

"It's been a very steep learning curve for us but we're delighted the supporters have finally had something to cheer about after some very difficult times"

......I really couldn' give two hoots about that. I'd far rather they did what the did last year. Say nothing, keep a low profile in the background, meet up with the manager, give him a budget to be competitive at the top of the division and let the professionals get on with their job.

[Neal]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Oooh! hello, not heard much from you for A while. No offence intended but I hope It's another twelve months before we hear from you again as tbat would probably mean we've had another successful season! 

I think you'd have to have an extremely jaundiced viewpoint to consider an apology as being opportunistic. However whilst it would be quite nice if they came out and said something like

"It's been a very steep learning curve for us but we're delighted the supporters have finally had something to cheer about after some very difficult times"

......I really couldn' give two hoots about that. I'd far rather they did what the did last year. Say nothing, keep a low profile in the background, meet up with the manager, give him a budget to be competitive at the top of the division and let the professionals get on with their job.

Me too!

[chaddyrovers]

On 19/04/2018 at 15:20, Fraserkirky said:

I think we need a towering centre half, quality centre midfielder and massive striker or two, whilst signing Chapman and Armstrong. 

Nyambe and Travis can fight it out for RB. 

Agree on towering centre back. Maybe the defender that signed for Sheff Utd instead of us could be option. 

Centre midfielder- Jon Nolan from Shrewsbury. Plus use Travis in centre midfield where he plays best for me. 

Sign Payne aswell. Plus 2 wingers which 1 must have pace. I like Josh Morris to be the other. 

Agree on Armstrong and possibly Chapman if injury free and back to full fitness. 

Plus a big target man

4 hours ago, FGS5635 said:

I think we need another centre back thats of starter quality. Lenihan and Charlie both have injury concerns. We need another for competition and cover.

That then makes downing our 4th CB, which is pretty decent for a 4th choice.

Would you loan Wharton again?

[Butty]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Agree on towering centre back. Maybe the defender that signed for Sheff Utd instead of us could be option. 

Centre midfielder- Jon Nolan from Shrewsbury. Plus use Travis in centre midfield where he plays best for me. 

Sign Payne aswell. Plus 2 wingers which 1 must have pace. I like Josh Morris to be the other. 

Agree on Armstrong and possibly Chapman if injury free and back to full fitness. 

Plus a big target man

Would you loan Wharton again?

I'd be looking at Jon Taylor from Rotherham as one of our wingers, also if Liverpool want to send him out on loan for another season it might be a longshot but I'd do everything to try and get young Harry wilson on loan. He's been a revelation at Hull and maybe he'd fancy staying a bit closer to Liverpool next season? The way he's playing though it would be no surprise if some prem clubs came in for him on loan. Interest will be high put it that way. Looking at wingers out of contract this summer, Kazenga Lua Lua of Sunderland, sammy ameobi of Bolton, and mustapha Carayol of Ipswich may be potential options. Joe Ledley Alex Tettey and David Meyler three centre mids out of contract who take the eye, all depends on how much Venkys give Mowbray to spend I guess. Players like Ledley will be on high wages so we'll have too see, just thought I'd throw a few names out there. I'm sure we'll look at paying fees for some young talent but we won't have bags full of cash so I imagine we'll look to get a couple of free transfers in too. 

[FGS5635]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Would you loan Wharton again?

Always the urge to use the kids, but if we want to do well in a higher league, then we need better than Wharton imo

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, FGS5635 said:

Always the urge to use the kids, but if we want to do well in a higher league, then we need better than Wharton imo

I've only seen Wharton play once but I liked what I saw. He looks cool under pressure and was always looking to find a Rovers player with the ball and not just launch it down field. I wouldn't write him off at all.

[FGS5635]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've only seen Wharton play once but I liked what I saw. He looks cool under pressure and was always looking to find a Rovers player with the ball and not just launch it down field. I wouldn't write him off at all.

Im basing my opinion on the fact that TM has written him off. He never got near the 1st team when we had a mini centre back crisis early in the season. If TM thinks downing is better, then he isnt going to promote him at a higher level.

I also doubt he would have signed Downing on a permanent deal if he had any long term plans to promote wharton

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, FGS5635 said:

Im basing my opinion on the fact that TM has written him off. He never got near the 1st team when we had a mini centre back crisis early in the season. If TM thinks downing is better, then he isnt going to promote him at a higher level.

I also doubt he would have signed Downing on a permanent deal if he had any long term plans to promote wharton

I take your point but I think Wharton will improve, I don't think Downing will. Mowbray doesn't seem to trust young players, I bit like me at work when I was working with apprentices I suppose. They do crazy things.

Centre halves tend to come through at a later stage than most other outfield players so I'm expecting our two young lads to get some game time this year. Especially in that joke cup.

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I take your point but I think Wharton will improve, I don't think Downing will. Mowbray doesn't seem to trust young players, I bit like me at work when I was working with apprentices I suppose. They do crazy things.

Centre halves tend to come through at a later stage than most other outfield players so I'm expecting our two young lads to get some game time this year. Especially in that joke cup.

Downing is only 26, so with the better facilities we have and playing with better players, I don't see any reason why we couldn't improve. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

Im basing my opinion on the fact that TM has written him off. He never got near the 1st team when we had a mini centre back crisis early in the season. If TM thinks downing is better, then he isnt going to promote him at a higher level.

I also doubt he would have signed Downing on a permanent deal if he had any long term plans to promote wharton

He must have some long term plans for the young players who got new contracts 

[FGS5635]

I dont recal Wharton getting a new deal. I could be wrong though. If he didnt his contract could be up this summer.

His loans have always been to league 2 also

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

I dont recal Wharton getting a new deal. I could be wrong though. If he didnt his contract could be up this summer.

His loans have always been to league 2 also

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2017/september/scott-signs-new-deal/  

[FGS5635]

Fair enough. I guess we will find out soon enough

[JacknOry]

I imagine it will be loans, freebies and possibly a bit of investment on some players from League 1 and I wouldnt be too unhappy about that. Some sensible investments though please, Whittingham has once again proved that we should not be looking at players in the twilight years of their careers. As good as that deal looked on paper at the time, he has been a massive disappointment for me.

Lets raid League 1, we have seen some decent players down there. That Turkish Messi will be out of contract I believe and he could be brought in. Would be a decent replacement if Dack (who will undoubtedly bring in some bids) is sold off - though I hope he isnt. Morris perhaps too would be an option if for a sensible price.

 

[tomphil]

Brown, Greer, Whittingham to name just a few busted flushes so yes it really is time to pack that in, reputations are one thing but legs and desire are another. No more golden oldies supplied via the usual sorces tell the agent pals to find their chaff homes elsewhere.

[JHRover]

They seem to get the chequebook out for new signings when Madame can be persuaded that there is a reasonable return on her investment. Hence why visits to see her in India have been followed shortly afterwards by the signings of people like Gestede, Cairney, Marshall, Conway, Dack etc. No doubt in my mind that Samuel was another one expected to come good and bang in the goals at this level and see his valuation rocket but it hasn't quite happened.

Nothing wrong at all with that as a policy so long as the valuation of the player isn't the central issue - e.g. we aren't signing players purely to sell off as soon as we can for a profit and are signing them to be assets for the club with value should an irresistible offer reluctantly arrive.

No problem if the club has a profitable trading policy of every few years selling off its star player(s) to a club in a higher division who can offer that player a genuine step up and offer us millions which we can then sensibly reinvest into quality additions. Most clubs in the Championship operate on such a policy.

I do have a problem with setting our stall out to sell whoever we can as quickly as we can with zero reinvestment and zero consideration given to the impact upon the first team (which is the policy we had between 2015 and 2017), particularly when the players are being sold to similar sized clubs who we need to be competing with in the league.

I'm not daft enough to think we will go and spend £15 million this summer (though Venkys could do if they wanted to) and I'm not daft enough to expect us to be able to fight off Premier League interest in players (in the unlikely event that materialises). But I don't think it is unreasonable to fight to keep our best players in the face of Championship interest. Embarking on another period of sales will be highly damaging.

[JacknOry]

Just now, JHRover said:

They seem to get the chequebook out for new signings when Madame can be persuaded that there is a reasonable return on her investment. Hence why visits to see her in India have been followed shortly afterwards by the signings of people like Gestede, Cairney, Marshall, Conway, Dack etc. No doubt in my mind that Samuel was another one expected to come good and bang in the goals at this level and see his valuation rocket but it hasn't quite happened.

Nothing wrong at all with that as a policy so long as the valuation of the player isn't the central issue - e.g. we aren't signing players purely to sell off as soon as we can for a profit and are signing them to be assets for the club with value should an irresistible offer reluctantly arrive.

No problem if the club has a profitable trading policy of every few years selling off its star player(s) to a club in a higher division who can offer that player a genuine step up and offer us millions which we can then sensibly reinvest into quality additions. Most clubs in the Championship operate on such a policy.

I do have a problem with setting our stall out to sell whoever we can as quickly as we can with zero reinvestment and zero consideration given to the impact upon the first team (which is the policy we had between 2015 and 2017), particularly when the players are being sold to similar sized clubs who we need to be competing with in the league.

I'm not daft enough to think we will go and spend £15 million this summer (though Venkys could do if they wanted to) and I'm not daft enough to expect us to be able to fight off Premier League interest in players (in the unlikely event that materialises). But I don't think it is unreasonable to fight to keep our best players in the face of Championship interest. Embarking on another period of sales will be highly damaging.

Agreed, I hope the club does everything possible to hold onto Dack. I think he has enjoyed his time here and is not the type to go looking for moves as his time at the Gils showed - the issue is whether the owners and money men will be able to see past a big bid and look at his value to the squad right now instead. A good season showing he can do it in the Championship is only going to increase his value further anyway. Now is not the time to cash in.

I cant see us spending 15 million - surely they would have learned from the last time they splashed the cash in this division. Would much prefer we brought in some young and hungry players from League 1 and aim for a decent midtable finish - anything higher is a bonus.

[JHRover]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Agreed, I hope the club does everything possible to hold onto Dack. I think he has enjoyed his time here and is not the type to go looking for moves as his time at the Gils showed - the issue is whether the owners and money men will be able to see past a big bid and look at his value to the squad right now instead. A good season showing he can do it in the Championship is only going to increase his value further anyway. Now is not the time to cash in.

I cant see us spending 15 million - surely they would have learned from the last time they splashed the cash in this division. Would much prefer we brought in some young and hungry players from League 1 and aim for a decent midtable finish - anything higher is a bonus.

I think what annoys me is already we're hearing 'rumours' of clubs being interested, probably coming from very little other than he has done well here and our track record as a club in the last couple of years, up until last summer, was to effectively invite attention and bids for our best players, even from rival clubs. When you get into the business of selling your centre half partnership to rivals or your best player to Fulham then you get a reputation as a selling club open for business, and it therefore isn't a surprise when Championship clubs come sniffing for decent players we have.

We've already had talk of Norwich being interested in Dack, but if we are serious as a club we won't even entertain such talk. Norwich are a bottom half Championship side who might have a windfall from Maddison being sold but aren't a big or rich club in the Championship. They are the sort we need to be finishing above. Yet already we're hearing 'rumours' as though it is inevitable they will come in and inevitable that Rovers will have to do business.

You don't sell your best players to rivals and succeed. The only club in the Championship who seem to have done it and still done well are Brentford.

Premier League is a different kettle of fish, but Championship we are capable and should be holding our own.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JHRover said:

I think what annoys me is already we're hearing 'rumours' of clubs being interested, probably coming from very little other than he has done well here and our track record as a club in the last couple of years, up until last summer, was to effectively invite attention and bids for our best players, even from rival clubs. When you get into the business of selling your centre half partnership to rivals or your best player to Fulham then you get a reputation as a selling club open for business, and it therefore isn't a surprise when Championship clubs come sniffing for decent players we have.

We've already had talk of Norwich being interested in Dack, but if we are serious as a club we won't even entertain such talk. Norwich are a bottom half Championship side who might have a windfall from Maddison being sold but aren't a big or rich club in the Championship. They are the sort we need to be finishing above. Yet already we're hearing 'rumours' as though it is inevitable they will come in and inevitable that Rovers will have to do business.

You don't sell your best players to rivals and succeed. The only club in the Championship who seem to have done it and still done well are Brentford.

Premier League is a different kettle of fish, but Championship we are capable and should be holding our own.

People said the same last summer. You can't stop rumours 

[JacknOry]

Marriott, Powell and Dack had interest in them in January and I expect the same again. Probably the three standout players in the league as their nominations for League One POTY obviously show. If I was the club, id be drawing up an improved contract for Dackie boy not only because he deserves to be one of the higher paid players at the club but also as a statement to other clubs that we are not interested in moving him on.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

I think what annoys me is already we're hearing 'rumours' of clubs being interested, 

We've already had talk of Norwich being interested in Dack, but if we are serious as a club we won't even entertain such talk. Norwich are a bottom half Championship side who might have a windfall from Maddison being sold but aren't a big or rich club in the Championship. They are the sort we need to be finishing above. Yet already we're hearing 'rumours' as though it is inevitable they will come in and inevitable that Rovers will have to do business.

You don't sell your best players to rivals and succeed. 

What rumours JHrover?

Norwich were rumoured in January which Mowbray came out and no interest/bids for Dack at all. 

Norwich selling Maddison will help them with the lost of PL money after 2 seasons at this level. 

I cant see Dack leaving this summer as he is enjoying his football under Mowbray who got the best out of him. 

[jim mk2]

There's bound to be interest in Dack. He's third division player of the year, scored a hatful of goals, and is the main reason why we are about to clinch promotion. It would be odd if we did not receive a bid for Dack. Whether the club receives an offer it cannot refuse, or Dack decides to go or stay, is another matter. Fortunately, we have a ready-made replacement in Payne, who is potentially better than Dack.  Mowbray's first task at the end of the season must be to sign Payne permanently.