Burnley pub renamed after Sean Dyche

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I'm all for a bit of rivalry and the banter that comes with it but Christ almighty for a fan to wish a stabbing on another?.Even worse after what happened to the two Leeds fans in Turkey.

[Vinjay]

They were not even playing Galatasaray anyway. OK it was another Istanbul club but who's to say this particular fambase were as hostile? Those stabbings with the Leeds fans took place before the game but are Galatasaray really going to set out in numbers to attack fans of a club they aren't even playing? People on here didn't have any hostile issues with Genclerbirligi did they (besides the dreadful performance and that wasn't their fault) and Glenn + SteB organised some fans game didn't they? I guess since the clubs were not certain to ever meet again (Galatasaray are pretty much European qualifier certainties every season) in European competition that was OK. It probably showed not all clubs were like Galatasaray (of course Genclerbirligi were not based in Istanbul don't know how far away they are) but I think some Leeds fans just want an excuse to pretty much hate everything. Sometimes they bring it on themselves they wanted Cellino but who couldn't have spotted what he was like? It was obvious he was a nutter before he bought the club every bit of evidence predicted it. Is it really about defending these 2 murdered fans for some of them? OK those who went haven't forgotten the sheer hostility of the occasion and Galatasaray as a club didn't handle the situation with much dignity. What Kewell did though was pathetic as if he cared about improving relations he's just a jackass. Don't really see though how basically hating all Turkish people (they even booed Tugay as if he's the type of guy who goes round stabbing people) is standing up for the honor of murdered fans. It's just bigotry and something else for Leeds fans to hate. Of course they don't tolerate disrespect much (which I like in some ways) but there's a balance. If it was them playing Millwall today there's a reason why Leeds/Millwall is one of the bigger games of the season for the local police whether it's in Leeds or London. There's a number of fans who just generally want an excuse to be aggressive.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Vinjay17

[SBlue]

Well said.

 

Though I do think “On The Road” was your best work.

[longsiders1882]

The rest of the fans in Istanbul (be they Galatasaray, Besiktas or Fenerbache) hate Basaksehir. They are owned by their ministry of sport and most locals feel Erdogan is financing them with government money. They honestly could not have been more welcoming.

Now its on to Athens. I can't make this one as it clashes with GCSE results day and so have to be here for my son in the event things don't go well. It's hard to see how our journey doesn't end here. Olympiakos have a real pedigree and I would expect them to have too much for us - shame as I'd have loved to get to the group stages and do at least one more trip.

 

[oldjamfan1]

5 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

The rest of the fans in Istanbul (be they Galatasaray, Besiktas or Fenerbache) hate Basaksehir. They are owned by their ministry of sport and most locals feel Erdogan is financing them with government money. They honestly could not have been more welcoming.

Now its on to Athens. I can't make this one as it clashes with GCSE results day and so have to be here for my son in the event things don't go well. It's hard to see how our journey doesn't end here. Olympiakos have a real pedigree and I would expect them to have too much for us - shame as I'd have loved to get to the group stages and do at least one more trip.

 

I think that's just natural football fan pessimism kicking in Longers. I feel you have every chance of progressing and I hope you do.

[Mattyblue]

Big names mean nothing these days, famous old clubs like say Benfica, Celtic, Rangers, Ajax, Anderlecht etc won’t have Burnley’s budget.

[Stuart]

AIK Athens are probably third in the pecking order in Athens and they just knocked out the best team in Scotland - although the SPL seems to have one first team club playing against Championship U23 sides so not much to be best of.

Olympiakos just need to do their homework on Bumley and it should be all she wrote. If they don’t then Dyche may well pull of another scalp.

Really can’t believe he is still there. He must know his own limitations and have very little ambition. He may well view the Europa as the next step but it really isn’t. After 6 years at Bumley the next step is to steer a Newcastle or an Everton - or even an Arsenal - back to the top 4. Clubs where there is a weight of expectation on the manager rather than a club just happy to be in the PL, let alone getting into the top half.

If he stays too long, his stock will fall along with Bumley. I guess money and being a big fish in a small pond is enough for him. Fair play but he will never be classed as a great manager until he succeeds at an established top flight club where there is pressure on him to do so.

[Mattyblue]

32 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I think that's just natural football fan pessimism kicking in Longers. I feel you have every chance of progressing and I hope you do.

[oldjamfan1]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The further they go in Europe the more likely they will struggle in the league. That's my theory anyway.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It says a lot about the directors of other established Premier League clubs that they aren't prepared to take a chance on him. Maybe he should change his name to Stefano Dychio.

[longsiders1882]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

AIK Athens are probably third in the pecking order in Athens and they just knocked out the best team in Scotland - although the SPL seems to have one first team club playing against Championship U23 sides so not much to be best of.

Olympiakos just need to do their homework on Bumley and it should be all she wrote. If they don’t then Dyche may well pull of another scalp.

Really can’t believe he is still there. He must know his own limitations and have very little ambition. He may well view the Europa as the next step but it really isn’t. After 6 years at Bumley the next step is to steer a Newcastle or an Everton - or even an Arsenal - back to the top 4. Clubs where there is a weight of expectation on the manager rather than a club just happy to be in the PL, let alone getting into the top half.

If he stays too long, his stock will fall along with Bumley. I guess money and being a big fish in a small pond is enough for him. Fair play but he will never be classed as a great manager until he succeeds at an established top flight club where there is pressure on him to do so.

I imagine he's stayed because the right better offer hasn't yet arrived. In this country there are a handful of jobs currently "better" than Burnley for him. Here he has a largely free hand to do as he wishes, he earns (I hear) very good money and he's largely unsackable. So of course he's ambitious but change for the sake of it? Maybe he sees the Europa as shop window for European teams so he can go abroad a few seasons, earn a reputation and maybe would then be considered for a "top 6" job?

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It says a lot about the directors of other established Premier League clubs that they aren't prepared to take a chance on him. Maybe he should change his name to Stefano Dychio.

Twas ever thus - Ask big Sam.

[tomphil]

Nobody pushes the boat out and takes a punt on Dyche a proven very good manager for a certain type of club yet Coyle keeps getting jobs like a high class hooker.

Football world is mad.

Good old Owen has probably earned as much as the ginger Phil Mitchell with all his pay offs.

 

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

I imagine he's stayed because the right better offer hasn't yet arrived. In this country there are a handful of jobs currently "better" than Burnley for him. Here he has a largely free hand to do as he wishes, he earns (I hear) very good money and he's largely unsackable. So of course he's ambitious but change for the sake of it? Maybe he sees the Europa as shop window for European teams so he can go abroad a few seasons, earn a reputation and maybe would then be considered for a "top 6" job?

Twas ever thus - Ask big Sam.

A handful? Come on, there’s way more than 6!

Without being sarcastic...

Liverpool

City

United

Chelsea

Arsenal

Tottenham

Leicester

Everton

Newcastle

Rovers

Sunderland

West Ham

Leeds

Villa

Birmingham

Fulham

Norwich

Sheff Wed

Sheff Utd

All of these teams have more expectation and therefore pressure than Bumley.

Then you have non-English clubs...

Celtic in Europe would be a step up

He might fancy doing what McLaren did in Holland with a more experienced European side. When you take a club like Bumley to 7th then you get offers. To turn them down shows he has hit his comfort zone.

With respect, you lot probably can’t believe your luck at the moment and are just enjoying the ride fully expecting it to come to an end soon.

[Hanks]

On 12/08/2018 at 00:06, S8 & Blue said:

Well said.

 

Though I do think “On The Road” was your best work.

Has anybody ever seen Vinjay and Sal Paradise in the same room together

[JHRover]

If English football was the same today as it was in the 90s or 00s then Dyche would have been long gone from Burnley as there would have been a host of bigger clubs interested in his services. Sadly things have changed so much in the last 10 years or so that appointing young British managers from Burnley etc. just isn't the done thing any more.

Clubs like West Ham, Everton, Leicester, even Spurs, Villa etc. would have been the sort who would have taken a punt on Dyche yet these days its all about the Silvas, Pochettinos and Pellegrinis of the world coming in from Europe with their 'new ideas'. Had West Ham replaced Moyes with Dyche this summer there would have been uproar there.

You can probably say the same for Howe at Bournemouth and he has a far more impressive reputation for playing attractive football and yet he's still at Bournemouth after 5-6 years of immense success.

Edited August 17, 2018 by JHRover

[Mattyblue]

Indeed, lots of parallels with Hughes at Rovers. Though we did even better, top 6, multiple cup semi finals and a run to the UEFA Cup knockouts.

Man City took a punt on him, fast forward to today and there’s not a chance a club with top 4 aspirations go for Dyche, just the way the game’s gone.

[Stuart]

British managers are not fashionable enough for today’s Premier League. Now SAF has retired there isn’t even a mentor and referee (in the job sense) for any young British managers.

It’s a global brand these days and needs a global image. Dyche certainly doesn’t fit the profile except for an unfashionable Northern club getting their turn to play with the big boys.

But you have to blame the chairmen who don’t bring through the young British managers. It’s all about instant success. Other top flight leagues seem to have plenty of home grown managers who get to gain experience. As soon as they are ripe, they are plucked from the tree by impatient club chairmen who want, nay need, instant success. I guess the other side of that coin is that suitably qualified and experienced European manager’s are applying for PL jobs as soon as they can, chasing the coin. The applicants in other top flights mainly only attractive to nationals from that country.

For interest, here’s how Europe’s top divisions line up:

Premier League (20% domestic)

4 ENG

16 Foreign (4 SPA, 3 POR, 1 WAL, 1 IRE, 1 FRA, 1 ITA, 1 ARG, 1 USA, 1 CHI, 1 GER, 1 SER)

 

La Liga (75% domestic)

15 SPA

5 Foreign (All ARG)

 

Bundesliga (78% domestic)

14 GER (incl 1 dual national TUR)

4 Foreign (1 AUS, 1 CRO, 1 HUN, 1 SWI)

 

Ligue 1 (80% domestic)

16 FRA (incl 1 dual national ARM)

4 Foreign (2 POR, 1 GER, 1 URU)

 

Serie A (95% domestic!)

19 ITI

1 Foreign (1 SPA)

 

Liga NOS (100% domestic)

18 POR

0 Foreign

 

SPL (50% domestic)

6 SCO

6 Foreign (6 ENG)

 

Despite having just over half the number of teams the SPL has 2 MORE English managers than the English top flight!!

Meanwhile...

Championship (75% domestic)

18 ENG (incl 1 dual national Jamaican)

6 Foreign (1 GER, 1 SPA, 1 WAL, 1 SCO, 1 HOL, 1 ARG) - Tony Pulis being Welsh

 

It isn’t a stretch to say that the PL has taken on new different identity and a European Super League is already here and is being played (in disguise) in England with the Championship taking the proxy role as the new English First Division. The way the game is going it won’t be long before PL games are regularly played across Europe as non-geographical franchises and our England team and managers are being picked from the second tier.

Maybe the game will be better off when it does.

[Mattyblue]

To be fair, we’ve had managers from the rest of Britain and Ireland since time immemorial pretty much, so I don’t particularly class them as ‘foreign’, though yes they aren’t English so I get your point.

The issue isn’t the likes of Mark Hughes and Chris Hughton (born and raised in England, just chose to play for his mother’s country), but the likes of Javier Gracia at Watford, had to wiki him because I’d forgotten who their manager was- spent his career treading water in the Spanish second division largely and a few spells in top flights around Europe taking sides to no better than mid table. He’s a prime example of what’s wrong with the English game - that goes for players too.

 

 

[Stuart]

11 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

To be fair, we’ve had managers from the rest of Britain and Ireland since time immemorial pretty much, so I don’t particularly class them as ‘foreign’, though yes they aren’t English so I get your point.

The issue isn’t the likes of Mark Hughes and Chris Hughton (born and raised in England, just chose to play for his mother’s country), but the likes of Javier Gracia at Watford, had to wiki him because I’d forgotten who their manager was- spent his career treading water in the Spanish second division largely and a few spells in top flights around Europe taking sides to no better than mid table. He’s a prime example of what’s wrong with the English game - that goes for players too.

The number of non-English British or Irish managers is worryingly even less than English managers though. 4 in the top two tiers. Where are they all??

[Mattyblue]

In our relegation season of 2011/12 - 15 out of the 20 were British or Irish, that’s some change in six years...

[Stuart]

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

In our relegation season of 2011/12 - 15 out of the 20 were British or Irish, that’s some change in six years...

Ferguson

Moyes

Imposter

Allardyce

Rogers

Hughes

Lambert

Pulis

McCarthy

Howe

Redknapp?

Bruce?

McLaren?

Hughton?

?

[Mattyblue]

McLeish, Scumbag, McDonut, Dalglish, Ferguson, Lambert, Pardew, O’Neill, Rodgers, Hughes, Pulis, Hodgson, Moyes, Redknapp, Mick McCarthy/Terry Connor

 

[BRFC4EVA]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

McLeish, Scumbag, McDonut, Dalglish, Ferguson, Lambert, Pardew, O’Neill, Rodgers, Hughes, Pulis, Hodgson, Moyes, Redknapp, Mick McCarthy/Terry Connor

 

And the shear incompetence of at least half of the above perhaps gives an answer (or least part of an answer) to our early wonderings about foreign managers...

Edited August 17, 2018 by BRFC4EVA

[Oldgregg86]

13 hours ago, longsiders1882 said:

Now its on to Athens. I can't make this one as it clashes with GCSE results day and so have to be here for my son in the event things don't go well. 

That's what FaceTime is for pal ?

[old darwen blue]

6 hours ago, Stuart said:

British managers are not fashionable enough for today’s Premier League. Now SAF has retired there isn’t even a mentor and referee (in the job sense) for any young British managers.

It’s a global brand these days and needs a global image. Dyche certainly doesn’t fit the profile except for an unfashionable Northern club getting their turn to play with the big boys.

But you have to blame the chairmen who don’t bring through the young British managers. It’s all about instant success. Other top flight leagues seem to have plenty of home grown managers who get to gain experience. As soon as they are ripe, they are plucked from the tree by impatient club chairmen who want, nay need, instant success. I guess the other side of that coin is that suitably qualified and experienced European manager’s are applying for PL jobs as soon as they can, chasing the coin. The applicants in other top flights mainly only attractive to nationals from that country.

For interest, here’s how Europe’s top divisions line up:

Premier League (20% domestic)

4 ENG

16 Foreign (4 SPA, 3 POR, 1 WAL, 1 IRE, 1 FRA, 1 ITA, 1 ARG, 1 USA, 1 CHI, 1 GER, 1 SER)

 

La Liga (75% domestic)

15 SPA

5 Foreign (All ARG)

 

Bundesliga (78% domestic)

14 GER (incl 1 dual national TUR)

4 Foreign (1 AUS, 1 CRO, 1 HUN, 1 SWI)

 

Ligue 1 (80% domestic)

16 FRA (incl 1 dual national ARM)

4 Foreign (2 POR, 1 GER, 1 URU)

 

Serie A (95% domestic!)

19 ITI

1 Foreign (1 SPA)

 

Liga NOS (100% domestic)

18 POR

0 Foreign

 

SPL (50% domestic)

6 SCO

6 Foreign (6 ENG)

 

Despite having just over half the number of teams the SPL has 2 MORE English managers than the English top flight!!

Meanwhile...

Championship (75% domestic)

18 ENG (incl 1 dual national Jamaican)

6 Foreign (1 GER, 1 SPA, 1 WAL, 1 SCO, 1 HOL, 1 ARG) - Tony Pulis being Welsh

 

It isn’t a stretch to say that the PL has taken on new different identity and a European Super League is already here and is being played (in disguise) in England with the Championship taking the proxy role as the new English First Division. The way the game is going it won’t be long before PL games are regularly played across Europe as non-geographical franchises and our England team and managers are being picked from the second tier.

Maybe the game will be better off when it does.

Very interesting analysis Stu, thanks.