Championship 2018-19

[JacknOry]

22 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think the season in League 1 has rejuvenated Graham, either that or playing under Mowbray. The nudges, the rolling around defenders to get in front of them, using his body(usually arse) to hold defenders off. He actually has it down to an art form. He wasn't as good at it when we were last in the Championship. He never gives center halves an easy game, competes for everything. They know he isn't the quickest, but yet he still manages to win a savage amount of ball that is played into him. I would say a young center half who relies on pace is like "how does this guy keep getting the f**** ball!" 

If he was 22, how much would he be worth now? I suppose what he does comes with experience and the need to change his game due to slowing down. Anyway, fair play to him because he has managed to adapt his game and make himself indispensable to our team. 

Before he came to us I believe, when he did play for Sunderland, he was usually pitted on the left in the 3-behind and not as a striker. Probably where he learned a few tricks like that dribble and burst of speed he did down the left to set up a goal for Dack last season. Perhaps he was a little rusty when he came to us in the Championship and played in the striker role - either that or he is just a very intelligent player that knows what his strengths and limitations are due to his age and experience.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Before he came to us I believe, when he did play for Sunderland, he was usually pitted on the left in the 3-behind and not as a striker. Probably where he learned a few tricks like that dribble and burst of speed he did down the left to set up a goal for Dack last season. Perhaps he was a little rusty when he came to us in the Championship and played in the striker role - either that or he is just a very intelligent player that knows what his strengths and limitations are due to his age and experience.

I think so and I reckon Mowbray had a word in his ear also. This is what I need you to do. Do it well and you're in my team 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[DeeCee]

I think it's a long drawn out selection process for TMs "best 11" when it's sorted, probably by April ?? we will be awesome.

[booth]

6 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Every signing is a gamble. Who could we sign that does what Graham does? We are all in agreement what he does is crucial. Mowbray took the route of signing a young lad, who will hopefully grow into the role. You clearly know about football, as do I, yet we can't think of someone we could have signed this summer who would go straight in and replace Graham(within our price range).  It's not easy 

 

It's not easy but how many people would say throwing £6m at an unproven 19 year old is the right way to go when we have pretty much a League 1 squad and other areas of the team to strengthen. I'd say if anything Mowbray has made his job a heck of a lot harder as Brereton has to work, for that money it can't not. He's not dealing with reasonable people, he's dealing with Venkys who will want some form of return on that investment. More than likely that deal means we're looking through the Jan transfer window in vain too.

I can't think of anyone to replace Graham because I've not really thought about it. It doesn't take a football genius to see how we're going to struggle without someone to step in for Graham, someone strengthening the defence, some natural width and competition for an unpredictable goalie. That £6m could have gone some way to resolving some of those issues rather than waiting for a young lad to fulfill his potential. Teams like Chelsea can do that, we can't.

Every signing is a gamble, but some are bigger gambles than others. £6m on a young lad is the biggest gamble the club has taken in a long time, probably since the Rhodes transfer. And at least Rhodes was extraordinarily prolific in League 1 before he came here.

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, booth said:

It's not easy but how many people would say throwing £6m at an unproven 19 year old is the right way to go when we have pretty much a League 1 squad and other areas of the team to strengthen. I'd say if anything Mowbray has made his job a heck of a lot harder as Brereton has to work, for that money it can't not. He's not dealing with reasonable people, he's dealing with Venkys who will want some form of return on that investment. More than likely that deal means we're looking through the Jan transfer window in vain too.

I can't think of anyone to replace Graham because I've not really thought about it. It doesn't take a football genius to see how we're going to struggle without someone to step in for Graham, someone strengthening the defence, some natural width and competition for an unpredictable goalie. That £6m could have gone some way to resolving some of those issues rather than waiting for a young lad to fulfill his potential. Teams like Chelsea can do that, we can't.

Every signing is a gamble, but some are bigger gambles than others. £6m on a young lad is the biggest gamble the club has taken in a long time, probably since the Rhodes transfer. And at least Rhodes was extraordinarily prolific in League 1 before he came here.

Youve expressed 3 primary reservations that you have about the deal, none of which are based on a knee jerk reaction to a couple of poor cameos:

-  Price tag and use of funds baring in mind other weaknesses in the squad

- Goal record

- Age and readiness to perform immediately

I think they are all fair concerns, as long as you arent saying hes a bad signing or a poor player which you arent.

 

[47er]

8 hours ago, JHRover said:

I personally doubt Mowbray would ever have seen £6 million or whatever it was on one player if that player didn't fit very strict criteria.

I think the money was there to be spent only if the person it was being spent on was a sound financial investment highly likely to deliver a return.

People say we could have spent £3 million on 2 proven ready made players but the problem there is that the wages would have been much higher and Venkys probably wouldn't have sanctioned it.

I'm starting to look at the Brereton signing as the modern day Rhodes. Someone somewhere at Venkys end agreed to chuck a large amount in extra on one player, in theory we might have been better spreading that across 3 or 4 new players rather than bringing in loans but I very much doubt, as with Rhodes, that money was available to spread across a few players.

You could be right with that. 

[booth]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Youve expressed 3 primary reservations that you have about the deal, none of which are based on a knee jerk reaction to a couple of poor cameos:

-  Price tag and use of funds baring in mind other weaknesses in the squad

- Goal record

- Age and readiness to perform immediately

I think they are all fair concerns, as long as you arent saying hes a bad signing or a poor player which you arent.

 

I've no idea what he is yet. As I said on another thread I'm more concerned about the implications of the signing itself rather than the player. For the moment.

Edited September 20, 2018 by booth

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 hours ago, booth said:

It's not easy but how many people would say throwing £6m at an unproven 19 year old is the right way to go when we have pretty much a League 1 squad and other areas of the team to strengthen. I'd say if anything Mowbray has made his job a heck of a lot harder as Brereton has to work, for that money it can't not. He's not dealing with reasonable people, he's dealing with Venkys who will want some form of return on that investment. More than likely that deal means we're looking through the Jan transfer window in vain too.

I can't think of anyone to replace Graham because I've not really thought about it. It doesn't take a football genius to see how we're going to struggle without someone to step in for Graham, someone strengthening the defence, some natural width and competition for an unpredictable goalie. That £6m could have gone some way to resolving some of those issues rather than waiting for a young lad to fulfill his potential. Teams like Chelsea can do that, we can't.

Every signing is a gamble, but some are bigger gambles than others. £6m on a young lad is the biggest gamble the club has taken in a long time, probably since the Rhodes transfer. And at least Rhodes was extraordinarily prolific in League 1 before he came here.

We don't have "pretty much a league 1 squad" 

[booth]

36 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We don't have "pretty much a league 1 squad" 

I disagree.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, booth said:

I disagree.

Raya- No

Nyambe, Mulgrew , Lenihan-No 

Bell/Williams-No 

Evans-No

Reed-No

Smallwood-Maybe

Bennett-no

Dack-No

Armstrong-maybe

Rothwell-time will tell, but I think no

Palmer-No

Graham-No 

Most of our players are not league 1 players, hence why we aren't there anymore. Plus we have improved the squad since then 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[K-Hod]

Paul Cook is still an absolute thunder @#/?, but to be fair, Wigan have taken to this division like a duck to water...

[G Somerset Rover]

Absolutely detest Cook, bloke is a complete ar*****e. Praying Wigan plummet sooner or later.

[roversfan99]

Cant see it. Theyve made some good signings at a fraction of our budget and are so well drilled. Nick Powell is a quality player underrated amidst all the Dack comparisons and Windass is a shrewd signing. 

Easy to dislike manager but they should do well this season. 

[yellowsubmarine]

They may have lost 3 but they won freaking 5 already. Wigan definitely knows how to win.

[booth]

21 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Raya- No

Nyambe, Mulgrew , Lenihan-No 

Bell/Williams-No 

Evans-No

Reed-No

Smallwood-Maybe

Bennett-no

Dack-No

Armstrong-maybe

Rothwell-time will tell, but I think no

Palmer-No

Graham-No 

Most of our players are not league 1 players, hence why we aren't there anymore. Plus we have improved the squad since then 

In your opinion, but your opinion is that Smallwood is a "maybe" and Evans as Championship standard.

Only Mulgrew, Bell, Dack, Graham would go on my definite Championship quality list.

Nyambe, Williams and Lenihan on the maybe list.

Evans and Bennett didn't convince last time in the Championship.

Raya on the "f***ing terrifies me" list.

Smallwood for me isn't a Championship player.

Reed, Rothwell and the rest of signings on the "who knows" list.

Palmer on the "looks like a player who has talent but won't put in a shift" list.

So hopefully from that you can see why I'm not convinced. I do think that Mowbray can potentially get more from the less talented players but the original point was he's taken a risk that he didn't need to take. I'd have preferred him take a safety first approach with his recruitment policy, then do something extravagant once we have roots in this league.
 

[Waggy76]

14 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Paul Cook is still an absolute thunder @#/?, but to be fair, Wigan have taken to this division like a duck to water...

They are defensively a much stronger unit  than us ....

not a lot up front but scored a good goal last night and usually they only need one !

[AAK]

35 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

They are defensively a much stronger unit  than us ....

not a lot up front but scored a good goal last night and usually they only need one !

Yep and a lot of that is down to Morsy and Evans, the two sitters, very good at what they do. Unlike us,  who have Smallwood (not good enough for this league, and even struggled second half of last season ) and Evans (not great at the tackling part of the game).

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Waggy76 said:

They are defensively a much stronger unit  than us ....

not a lot up front but scored a good goal last night and usually they only need one !

Just like the Dingles. I bet somebody on here they'd finish higher up in the league than Rovers but I can't recall who it was.

[Waggy76]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Just like the Dingles. I bet somebody on here they'd finish higher up in the league than Rovers but I can't recall who it was.

I was thinking Cook could be their next manager in waiting especially if they go down , not sure he could keep them in the Prem though if Dyche walked or was sacked !!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

I was thinking Cook could be their next manager in waiting especially if they go down , not sure he could keep them in the Prem though if Dyche walked or was sacked !!

I'm sure you're right. He ticks all their boxes.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

It was Wigan.

Yeah I know that. What I've forgotten is who I bet with.

[islander200]

Home defeat for Villa, Bruce has lost the fans there can see the new owners considering a change

[perthblue02]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yeah I know that. What I've forgotten is who I bet with.

Well if they don't finish higher than Rovers , it was with me , 200 quid I believe

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

Well if they don't finish higher than Rovers , it was with me , 200 quid I believe

Very funny.

[DE.]

Another terrible result for Ipswich, 0-0 with Bolton despite having an extra man's advantage for an hour. Apparently a dire performance as well. Ipswich fans now calling for Hurst's head.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/442150/hurst-is-surely-gone-after-that/#26

Mick's still available lads