Thursday deadline.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Come on Rev, you've surely seen many deals over the years, here and elsewhere, take weeks or months to be completed. We chased Rhodes for a long time, for just one example. These things don't just get done in a few days all the time. There are often long negotiation processes involved with the clubs and players, with everyone trying to get the best deal. I know this isn't news to you.

The Rhodes deal was completed relatively quickly at a relatively late stage (after Leon Best broke down) because we met Huddersfield's asking price.which many considered extortionate at the time.

If we have various bids on the table for players It's because at this stage the bids are ideemed nadequate by either the player or selling Club. It seems a risky way to operate to me to hope that one or two of our targets may not get a better offer and decide to join us at the last minute.

I'm not saying we won't sign anyone, just expressing an opinion that it looks like there's relatively little money available and that most of our business will be free out of contract players and/or last minute loans. Which I'm not sure will be good enough.

I May be wrong and if we sign a number of players for substantial fees over the next 2-3 weeks I'll be delighted and please feel free to come on here and remind me I got all Private Fraser.

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm stating the bleeding obvious here but if there's a target you particularly want , and presumably you have already done your homework on what both Club and player want, you get it over the line.

How can you plan anything when you've no idea whether some  any or all of your targets will end up joining?

It’s not rocket science mate. They identify who they want. Initial enquiries to see if the player fancies it and if the selling club are willing to listen...but then you still have to actually agree the financial terms of the deal.

Its World Cup year which is always a notoriously quiet start to the summer transfer window. The manager and chief exec have been soooo honest with the fans. People just making their own assumptions because they’re growing frustrated. A lot of rubbish passed off as fact too.

Be patient. TM has given us no reason not to believe him

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Fraserkirky said:

I love a 4-4-2 diamond like what Uraguay are playing right now. Proper little and large striker combo, proper footballer(Dack) in behind the strikers, a tough defensive midfielder kicking people, wingers are more in a support role than attack. Would suit us.

I'll take anything if it stops us playing 3-5-2 Which usually ends up with 7 defensive minded players on the pitch.

[Mike E]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He didnt contribute his share of goals, he didnt score post November!

Thats a terrific cross but we didnt see the likes nearly enough and thats what people are saying.

Everyone hopes he does well next year, goes without saying.

He contributed 6 extra points via 3 seperate winning goals. He'll do off the bench and occasional starter until he proves otherwise.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Mike E said:

He contributed 6 extra points via 3 seperate winning goals. He'll do off the bench and occasional starter until he proves otherwise.

I'm not sure players that "will do" based on 3 goals at League 1 level, even if they were important, is what we need at a much higher standard, but he will still be here, definitely need someone better aswell to push and eventually replace Graham though.

[Mike E]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I'm not sure players that "will do" based on 3 goals at League 1 level, even if they were important, is what we need at a much higher standard, but he will still be here, definitely need someone better aswell to push and eventually replace Graham though.

I do agree there. My suspicion is that Armstrong will come in as a starting striker, with Graham and Samuel being backup.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Mike E said:

I do agree there. My suspicion is that Armstrong will come in as a starting striker, with Graham and Samuel being backup.

If Armstrong came back, I feel like we'd have to go back to Armstrong wide, him and Dack buzzing around Graham was a superb combination.

[islander200]

7 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I do agree there. My suspicion is that Armstrong will come in as a starting striker, with Graham and Samuel being backup.

I'd be worried if we where playing Armstrong as a lone front man with Dack behind.

Imo Dack needs to play behind a target man type to get the best out of him.His best attribute in my opinion is feeding off a player who can hold the ball up and pass it off to him with his superb timing of his runs into the box.Dack wouldn't score anywhere near as many goals playing behind a small nippy foward like Armstrong.

Agree with others that Armstrong should forget about playing as a front man and learn properly how to play the role we had him in last season. 

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

How many games of Swindons did you watch? I'll hazard a guess, very few if any. Looking at his stats he had one season where he got 8 goals from midfield, in League 1, considering he spent 4 seasons there that suggests its the exception to the rule. In the Championship for QPR he far from impressed. You aren't arsed about their views because you only take on board positive appraisals of our players. Crucially, neither of us really know how he did aside from at Rovers, we dont see him play for Swindon or QPR, weve seen him in a Rovers shirt and every time he put one on he was shocking. Agreed?

You dont have to be apologetic and defend every single action Mowbray makes. I dont get why you are already deciding that team selection, the seasons over a month away and we have no idea what other wingers we will have. You are only saying it to back up Mowbray so its difficult to debate with you.

You say he used Chapman the correct way. He started him once, at home to Portsmouth, he got an assist, he was excellent and he proved that he could have an impact from the start. Their defence had no idea how to deal with both him and Dack together and we comfortably won. Then he got dropped for the next game, we offered no attacking threat and he came on late and got injured and we never saw him again.

If he did sign, I would want it to be permanently and I would want Mowbray to take off the shackles a bit. He wouldnt sign to sit on our bench anyway if he has anything about him, but he could offer us a great counter attacking threat if he was given starts.

 firstly, I cant remember. its a few years ago. 

The game is 90 mins long and you don't need to win a game in the first 20 mins. 

I like Mowbray a lot and the way he thinks about the game. his openness's and honest is a breath of fresh air and he has reunited the club, fanbase and players in 17 months of being here. Dunn's comments about Mowbray are correct. 

I haven't even decide the team at all but just how I would use Chapman 

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He didnt contribute his share of goals, he didnt score post November!

Thats a terrific cross but we didnt see the likes nearly enough and thats what people are saying.

Everyone hopes he does well next year, goes without saying.

Graham has 2 goals by the end of November/time of Samuel last goal. He got stronger as the season went on. 

5 hours ago, Tormund said:

Keeping his cards close to his chest. Nobody knows who we will sign next. Have a cold beer.

exactly. far too many negative people on here

10 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

The manager has identified the players he wants, he has already had discussions with some but, as he pointed out, the players are in the box seat at the moment and can sit back and wait to see what other offers come in.  As the window draws to a close they make their choice.  I'm not sure how much more organised you can be than identify players and open discussions with players and then have to wait for the player to decide if the move suits them or not.

thanks Parson

11 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

So they might end up here but they might not and we might be scrubbing around for replacements ar the last minute?

I would have hoped our approach would have been a lot more organised and a lot less hit and miss than that.

How much more organised do you want Mowbray to be? He has been very open and honest about the recruitment and how he is going about it. He isn't panicking cos he hasn't got the player we want and we over paying for the player.  

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

League football is a very small world. Any experienced manager worth his salt will know who's likely to be available. It's not like the days when we were signing players from all over the world anymore.

I would disagree that league football is very small. Mowbray has his targets and has explained by him previously. He has player A, B and C for each position he wants a striker. Now clubs are all back now for pre season I would expect some movement this week or 2. clubs probably looking for a signings before selling the player we want. Loan targets will be released until towards end of August deadline. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I'm not sure players that "will do" based on 3 goals at League 1 level, even if they were important, is what we need at a much higher standard, but he will still be here, definitely need someone better aswell to push and eventually replace Graham though.

He scored 5 goals and 5 assist. 

his goals won us games at Bradford, Gillingham and his performance at home against Bristol Rovers won us this game. won the penalty and scored the winner. 

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 firstly, I cant remember. its a few years ago. 

The game is 90 mins long and you don't need to win a game in the first 20 mins. 

I like Mowbray a lot and the way he thinks about the game. his openness's and honest is a breath of fresh air and he has reunited the club, fanbase and players in 17 months of being here. Dunn's comments about Mowbray are correct. 

I haven't even decide the team at all but just how I would use Chapman 

Graham has 2 goals by the end of November/time of Samuel last goal. He got stronger as the season went on. 

exactly. far too many negative people on here

thanks Parson

How much more organised do you want Mowbray to be? He has been very open and honest about the recruitment and how he is going about it. He isn't panicking cos he hasn't got the player we want and we over paying for the player.  

I would disagree that league football is very small. Mowbray has his targets and has explained by him previously. He has player A, B and C for each position he wants a striker. Now clubs are all back now for pre season I would expect some movement this week or 2. clubs probably looking for a signings before selling the player we want. Loan targets will be released until towards end of August deadline. 

He scored 5 goals and 5 assist. 

his goals won us games at Bradford, Gillingham and his performance at home against Bristol Rovers won us this game. won the penalty and scored the winner. 

Your answer is not related to the points I made.

I asked if you agree that Gladwin was awful every time he put on a Rovers shirt? 

In regards to Gladwins good past performances that youve seen, your brief, non-committal answer suggests they are a figment of your imagination. His career before Rovers and in particular his performances we saw with our own eyes suggest he has nothing to offer, especially at a higher level.

You dont have to keep telling everyone how much you like Mowbray and how honest you think he is. I never said anything to the contrary. Its is irrelevant however to the debate regarding Harry Chapman. Please be aware that you can question things he does, you can suggest things different to what he does, and you can have different opinions, all whilst respecting and appreciating the job hes doing.

In regards to Chapman, im just saying that, over a month away from the season, in a position where we have no Championship quality players, there is nothing to be gained from the statement/attitude of only seeing Chapman as a sub. Not least because why would a young player join a club in the same League when hes been told he wont be starting games? 

Regarding the 3 whole games he scored in that youve mentioned (although it was the introduction of Graham as much as Samuel that got us a win v Bristol Rovers) im not denying that. However, the record of 5 goals and 5 assists is not good enough in League 1 to suggest that he can have a consistent, meaningful impact in the Championship.

[Sparks Rover]

There seems to be a few clubs in the championship spending....forest, etc....I'm concerned we only seem to be talking about the loans from last season.

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Your answer is not related to the points I made.

I asked if you agree that Gladwin was awful every time he put on a Rovers shirt? 

In regards to Gladwins good past performances that youve seen, your brief, non-committal answer suggests they are a figment of your imagination. His career before Rovers and in particular his performances we saw with our own eyes suggest he has nothing to offer, especially at a higher level.

You dont have to keep telling everyone how much you like Mowbray and how honest you think he is. I never said anything to the contrary. Its is irrelevant however to the debate regarding Harry Chapman. Please be aware that you can question things he does, you can suggest things different to what he does, and you can have different opinions, all whilst respecting and appreciating the job hes doing.

In regards to Chapman, im just saying that, over a month away from the season, in a position where we have no Championship quality players, there is nothing to be gained from the statement/attitude of only seeing Chapman as a sub. Not least because why would a young player join a club in the same League when hes been told he wont be starting games? 

Regarding the 3 whole games he scored in that youve mentioned (although it was the introduction of Graham as much as Samuel that got us a win v Bristol Rovers) im not denying that. However, the record of 5 goals and 5 assists is not good enough in League 1 to suggest that he can have a consistent, meaningful impact in the Championship.

I haven't seen Gladwin every performance in a Rovers shirt. I seen the Doncaster and MK Dons games plus Bristol Rovers game where he should have scored that great chance. I thought he was decent in those games and I think there is a player in the person. 

Yes I fully aware of that I can question Mowbray judgement or the things he does but currently I feel that I agree with the majority of things he has does so far this summer. 

Look at what Mowbray said and what he said Chapman said. Chapman needs to be better defensively wise for me and Mowbray has been open and honest about Chapman role if he came back here. That's Mowbray for you always open and honest. 

After his last game he scored in how often did he start games and up front plus how many chances has he had to score?

Whittingham had a lesser impact than Samuel last season but still people think he can have a good impact this season so why cant the same be for Samuel?

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I haven't seen Gladwin every performance in a Rovers shirt. I seen the Doncaster and MK Dons games plus Bristol Rovers game where he should have scored that great chance. I thought he was decent in those games and I think there is a player in the person. 

Yes I fully aware of that I can question Mowbray judgement or the things he does but currently I feel that I agree with the majority of things he has does so far this summer. 

Look at what Mowbray said and what he said Chapman said. Chapman needs to be better defensively wise for me and Mowbray has been open and honest about Chapman role if he came back here. That's Mowbray for you always open and honest. 

After his last game he scored in how often did he start games and up front plus how many chances has he had to score?

Whittingham had a lesser impact than Samuel last season but still people think he can have a good impact this season so why cant the same be for Samuel?

Did you not see him in for example the Checkatrade games at Ewood? Or the Burnley game? A few more too. If you think he was decent in any of them games then youre in a minority of 1 id suggest.

He hasnt done anything this summer bar sign Rothwell?

Im not saying that Chapman is the finished product. (Although in his only start we kept a clean sheet) Or that Mowbray is dishonest. I dont understand why you or Mowbray would be in favour of signing him to be a sub only. Surely you sign hin to fight for his place like any other position? We have no wingers bar a past it Conway who is also coined as a sub. We need 3 new wingers if one of them is Chapman as only a sub. 

As a general rule of thumb, we need to sign players that IMPROVE us, not players to make up the numbers ie signing new subs. 

Enough to score more than 0 after November! He didnt score enough or assist enough at League One level or perform consistently enough to suggest to me that he can score/perform regularly at Championship level.

Presumably because Whittingham has a career full of seasons proving that he can be a big asset at Championship level. Only question is his age but hes never been fast anyway.

[JBiz]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I take it You're on the wind up with that comment and have heard of agents. A bit of initial spadework will uncover whether or not the player is likely to be open to the idea of a move and whether or not his personal terms are likely to be roughly within budget.

I take it you’re as obnoxious in real life based on that first sentence... I’ll say it again so it makes sense this time; Id like to think the manager picks his list based on ABILITY before any enquiries to agents/clubs! 

It’s really not that difficult to grasp.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 hours ago, RovingRover said:

What makes you say that?

Correct me if I am wrong. But aren't a majority of the players we have been linked with so far in the category of players who have 12 months of less left on contracts?

Surely you prioritise those players first in the hopes of beating off competition?

I'm saying that because " at the moment " I see no signs of us having serious cash to spend. I hope for everybody's sake that I'm proven wrong.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I suspect is what we are finding out is that Mowbray's idea of a working budget for the championship is probably out of date. As a result  the bids we had in have probably been laughed out by other clubs.

I also suspect that any player worth a look is also being chased by several clubs as there isn't too many good players available. Those players and their agents can then hold on. As the earlier deadline looms they know some clubs will panic and spend silly money so if you were a player or agent why sign early? They will still be sorted by the start of the season.

All of this is not good news for Rovers with a relative small budget. Even when the transfer deadline passes and the loan market remains open all this do will increase clubs making loans leaving the loaning club in a position of power and asking silly money.

[tomphil]

Let's just hope they aren't putting the squeeze on him then he gets presented with certain lists to choose from when he gets desperate for bodies.

Freebie market should get moving now though so this week could see something.

Seen figures of 3-5 mill bounded about on here as a transfer budget, now i'm happy to be corrected and hope to be proved wrong but I think some of the more excitable need to have a rethink on that.

[47er]

16 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Come on Rev, you've surely seen many deals over the years, here and elsewhere, take weeks or months to be completed. We chased Rhodes for a long time, for just one example. These things don't just get done in a few days all the time. There are often long negotiation processes involved with the clubs and players, with everyone trying to get the best deal. I know this isn't news to you.

We haven't got months have we? That's why I was cheered when TM said he'd get the his transfer business done early. 

Hasn't worked out and, like others, I worry that its because Venkys won't fund him.

[Ladyboys of Bank Top]

Just now, tomphil said:

Let's just hope they aren't putting the squeeze on him then he gets presented with certain lists to choose from when he gets desperate for bodies.

Freebie market should get moving now though so this week could see something.

Seen figures of 3-5 mill bounded about on here as a transfer budget, now i'm happy to be corrected and hope to be proved wrong but I think some of the more excitable need to have a rethink on that.

Sharpe said more than last summer. Last summer was £1.5m. We also didn't spend all the budget available according to Mowbray. £3m is hardly excitable. 

[islander200]

17 minutes ago, 47er said:

We haven't got months have we? That's why I was cheered when TM said he'd get the his transfer business done early. 

Hasn't worked out and, like others, I worry that its because Venkys won't fund him.

How many had we signed at this stage last year?Not many and we needed more players than we need to buy this season.

The players have been back 1 week and that has been spent abroad.For all you and I know deals could be agreed but waiting for Mowbray to return to announce them.

We have been linked with free transfer players that McGeough from Hibs and that centre half from Blackpool who joined Rotherham yesterday.The fact Mowbray hasnt persued out of contract players  suggests to me there is money in the kitty.

If we don't get a few in in the best 10 days or so then i'l start to worry 

[J*B]

Football clubs don't work with specific "transfer budgets"... they have yearly club budgets which cover all expenses including agents, wages etc. If we only sign players on 5k a week we will have money spare for transfers, alternatively we could get a load of frees on 20k a week.

[tomphil]

20 minutes ago, Ladyboys of Bank Top said:

Sharpe said more than last summer. Last summer was £1.5m. We also didn't spend all the budget available according to Mowbray. £3m is hardly excitable. 

Of course 3 million is excitable compared to the last few years, where have you been ?  I'll be over the moon if 3 mill is spent on a few DECENT players.

Personally I think the whole playing side budget may be 3-5 million more than it was last year going in the line with the rise in income from promotion but there's a lot come out of it already.

Edited July 1, 2018 by tomphil

[bluebruce]

18 minutes ago, 47er said:

We haven't got months have we? That's why I was cheered when TM said he'd get the his transfer business done early. 

Hasn't worked out and, like others, I worry that its because Venkys won't fund him.

Not remaining no, but in total we did. It's not like we only just started. It could be they won't fund him, we have certainly been there before, but all the ACTUAL indications from the club is that there is at least a little money to spend. The only indications we don't are actually just insinuations based on us not having done more business so far. How much money there is, is a different matter. Personally I suspect something like 3 million.

Isn't it plausible that the reason for the slow movement is just that that isn't an awfully large budget for the champs anymore, and that we are ensuring we spend it wisely? If clubs raise their asking prices (looked like Charlton did this) or ask too much to begin with, shouldn't we be careful about meeting it? Especially since we all know the way the market works with fluctuating prices throughout, particularly with the trickle down effect from a world cup.

I get why people are worried given the past, but we can be a little more patient. The next week or two will be telling, but even then it won't be over.

[bluebruce]

Just now, tomphil said:

Of course 3 million is excitable compared to the last few years, where have you been ?  I'll be over the moon if 3 mill is spent on a few DECENT players.

Personally I think the whole playing side budget may be 3-5 million more than it was last year going in the line with the rise in income from promotion but there's a lot come out of it already.

Circa 1.5 in the summer, and about a half mill on Bell. 2 mill in league one....3 mill in the champs doesn't sound excitable to me.

[Ladyboys of Bank Top]

Just now, tomphil said:

Of course 3 million is excitable compared to the last few years, where have you been ?  

Not much point discussing it if you are going to ignore my post and make a patronising comment. Read my post again the answer is there. You're the excitable one.