Thursday deadline.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Worrying that a CB seems to be a permanent signing.  Would have thought winger and striker more of a priority.

[Igloo5090]

Everton game shows our starting lineup is good enough for the championship. Stanley game shows our strength in depth isn’t up to the standard. 

If no one comes in that is at least bench standard, then we will struggle if we get injuries.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I know nothing about Nmecha as a player. seen him on YouTube and that's it. I would prefer Armstrong to be fair. Can play wide or up front and score goals. 

I not concerned about those quotes and I read it has he after at least more 4 signings. That's also tied in with some info a friend has just told me that he was told by Senior Rovers official that they will be 2 more signings this week after the Palmer loan signing.

The Everton performance was very impressive and the players are buying into Mowbray tactics and his style of play from what I have read and watched from the game reports and Highlights clips.   

Wyke could be an option buy he is currently injured at the minute

Agreed, clips of him against other kids are all thats out there. Not too keen on signing such a raw player on loan, and would love us to buy Armstrong. Palmer, Dack and Armstrong all playing off Graham would be excellent.

The same one that said Kent would sign within 48 hours? Haha.

I was there and very impressed by what I saw, as I said in the pre season thread. However, im wary not to read too much into a friendly. My doubts are not in regards to the way that the current squad have gelled together, that didnt really surprise me, particularly in a 4-2-3-1 we already know they were playing well last year. We know they buy into Mowbrays way of working. But Samuel has not shown anywhere enough to suggest he can become a winger regularly, and the team that played v Stanley just shows how weak we are beyond the first team, none of that team would have a significant chance for me of starting on Saturday.

3 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Worrying that a CB seems to be a permanent signing.  Would have thought winger and striker more of a priority.

Totally, 100% agree. With our limited resources, as much as possible should be spent on attacking players, wingers/strikers to challenge the first team, not a centre back who will almost certainly be behind Mulgrew and Lenihan in an area of little concern. 

[JBiz]

13 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Not really.  Our scouting network doesn't seem set up to find and attract the Sambas and Nzonzis of this world.  Dominic Samuel is the level that less than Dack's fee gets you these days.  The market has moved on.  

Are you missing the fact we got a “Dack” for Dacks fee? Ofcourse the markets moved on, hence why some more average players are on daft wages. 

The key is finding players from under the radar of others, taking a risk. In that respect, the fee is irrelevant. 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Biz

[Neal]

10 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Not really.  Our scouting network doesn't seem set up to find and attract the Sambas and Nzonzis of this world.  Dominic Samuel is the level that less than Dack's fee gets you these days.  The market has moved on.  

I'm not so sure mate... Only 3 seasons ago we had serious interest in Sandro Wagner who couldn't get into Hertha Berlin side... He's now banging em in at Bayern when he starts. 

 

I've always maintained the German market is massively overlooked for value. The style of play is similar and the players (especially in Bundesliga 2) don't earn massive wages. 

[Garage Flower]

22 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Worrying that a CB seems to be a permanent signing.  Would have thought winger and striker more of a priority.

I think that’s more due to you aren’t going to find a striker with top quality in our budget but could well find a top quality Championship centre half. If we aren’t going to be banging them in for fun like we did in League One, we’re gonna have to be hard to score against. 

[chaddyrovers]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Agreed, clips of him against other kids are all thats out there. Not too keen on signing such a raw player on loan, and would love us to buy Armstrong. Palmer, Dack and Armstrong all playing off Graham would be excellent.

The same one that said Kent would sign within 48 hours? Haha.

I was there and very impressed by what I saw, as I said in the pre season thread. However, im wary not to read too much into a friendly. My doubts are not in regards to the way that the current squad have gelled together, that didnt really surprise me, particularly in a 4-2-3-1 we already know they were playing well last year. We know they buy into Mowbrays way of working. But Samuel has not shown anywhere enough to suggest he can become a winger regularly, and the team that played v Stanley just shows how weak we are beyond the first team, none of that team would have a significant chance for me of starting on Saturday.

Totally, 100% agree. With our limited resources, as much as possible should be spent on attacking players, wingers/strikers to challenge the first team, not a centre back who will almost certainly be behind Mulgrew and Lenihan in an area of little concern. 

Kent met with Rovers and was coming. But then Gerrard step in for him after Rangers poor display in the Europa League

[Bigdoggsteel]

Funny window. It appears that Palmer from Chelsea and Nmecha from City are far better than what we could afford to buy. So what to do? Should we sign less good players just to call them our own? The reviews of these two guys is as good as I have heard about any players going to the championship  

Probably going to end up signing Bauer and spending the rest on a striker. I'm guessing that Mowbray wants a more out and out striker than Armstrong, maybe someone more physical. I like Armstrong personally, so would be happy if we sign him. I just have a feeling Mowbray isn't convinced at the price quoted. 

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[Igloo5090]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Funny window. It appears that Palmer from Chelsea and Nmecha from City are far better than what we could afford to buy. So what to do? Should we sign less good players just to call them our own? The reviews of these two guys is as good as I have heard about any players going to the championship  

Probably going to end up signing Bauer and spending the rest on a striker. I'm guessing that Mowbray wants a more out and out striker than Armstrong, maybe someone more physical. I like Armstrong personally, so would be ahooy if we sign him. I just have a feeling Mowbray isn't at the price quoted. 

 

Loan signings are a good way of getting better players than you have currently, and in previous years where we have had a very unstable team in terms of having to replace most of the players from the previous years it can be destabilising to rely upon loans. 

Loan signings mixed in with a strong core of players and some encouraging, cheaper buys are perfect for trying to establish back in the championship.

As for signing Bauer if the funds are available and it doesn’t compromise signing a striker then go for it I would say.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

26 minutes ago, Biz said:

Are you missing the fact we got a “Dack” for Dacks fee? Ofcourse the markets moved on, hence why some more average players are on daft wages. 

The key is finding players from under the radar of others, taking a risk. In that respect, the fee is irrelevant. 

But we can't afford to 'take a risk'.  We need to be lining up a replacement for Graham. To replace his quality -which let's be fair, is way below the Bellamy and McCarthy's of this world means we need to spend a couple of million at least.  Yes we got Dack comparatively cheap (although I am sure there were substantial clauses) however he was a proven performer in the last year of his contract.  Bare in mind that strikers traditionally cost more.  The nearest similar player would be Jack Marriott who has moved for significantly more than £750k..

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

35 minutes ago, Neal said:

I'm not so sure mate... Only 3 seasons ago we had serious interest in Sandro Wagner who couldn't get into Hertha Berlin side... He's now banging em in at Bayern when he starts. 

 

I've always maintained the German market is massively overlooked for value. The style of play is similar and the players (especially in Bundesliga 2) don't earn massive wages. 

German market has been undervalued for years...   He may have been on our radar 3 years ago under  Lambert but

Hasn't our scouting system been revamped under Mowbray? -yet no links to any foreign markets at all.  There are always players out there but we don't seem to have been switched on at finding them since/before Allardyce.

[BG1492]

Really wouldn’t one Wyke, the guy’s all round play isn’t good at all.

Marquis at Doncaster would be ok back up IMO.

[Blueandwhitemike]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

This is nonsense without actually seeing him play!

True enough but so is saying fees are irrelevant 

[JHRover]

No indication that we're looking at signing players from abroad or the lower leagues to address our lack of forwards, two areas we should be looking at if we're short on funds. All the talk around loans up top with a permanent move for a back up cb. 

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Funny window. It appears that Palmer from Chelsea and Nmecha from City are far better than what we could afford to buy. So what to do? Should we sign less good players just to call them our own? The reviews of these two guys is as good as I have heard about any players going to the championship  

Probably going to end up signing Bauer and spending the rest on a striker. I'm guessing that Mowbray wants a more out and out striker than Armstrong, maybe someone more physical. I like Armstrong personally, so would be happy if we sign him. I just have a feeling Mowbray isn't convinced at the price quoted. 

 

I think everyone understands that loans are crucial in terms of supplementing the squad, as long as its aswell as permanent signings. The only reason that people would be annoyed is if we only signed loans which is perfectly fair.

The 2 players in question have different question marks around them.

Kasey Palmer, there has been unanimous agreement that he has the ability, proven in particular in playing a key part in getting  Huddersfield promoted. in making a big impact. The only real debate has been how hes going to fit into our team, baring in mind his natural position is where our best player currently plays. Also seen a few people including myself a bit disappointed with the length of the loan suggested but hopefully he will be here for the season, one way or another.

Lukas Nmecha, im unsure how he also fits under the phrase "far better than what we could afford to buy." Hes barely kicked a ball competitively, hes obviously a talent but he must be very raw and theres very little evidence, unlike with Palmer, to suggest that within the next year he would be better than what we could get permanently.

Bauer for me is one where he obviously is more than good enough to be our 3rd centre back, just seems a waste to spend a decent fee on an player who would only play if we had an injury, as much as I appreciate the need for a good squad.

Arsmtrong is in my eyes a winger, he was so effective there and provided far more width than I expected him too, when Samuel and Gallagher have played there for us under Mowbray they looked like strikers playing wide, a bit awkward, whereas Armstrong looked like the position suited him to the ground. If Mowbray is unconvinced after last season then hes a tough one to please, he was excellent.

[ben_the_beast]

Admittedly only YouTube vids but after watching Nmecha I was fairly impressed. He looks like he's got a lot of strength as well as a bit of pace. Players need that strength when dropping down a level. A lack of it is usually where a lot of talented young players come unstuck or take a long time to settle.

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Admittedly only YouTube vids but after watching Nmecha I was fairly impressed. He looks like he's got a lot of strength as well as a bit of pace. Players need that strength when dropping down a level. A lack of it is usually where a lot of talented young players come unstuck or take a long time to settle.

Agreed but its against kids. Have to see how he faces up against adults but its a good point in that hopefully hes stronger than most young strikers.

Graham is someone he may learn a lot from in using his strength. If he joins.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 minute ago, ben_the_beast said:

Admittedly only YouTube vids but after watching Nmecha I was fairly impressed. He looks like he's got a lot of strength as well as a bit of pace. Players need that strength when dropping down a level. A lack of it is usually where a lot of talented young players come unstuck or take a long time to settle.

Read an article about Nmecha - him talking about moving up to the 1st team squad last season.  Learnt alot coming up against Vincent Company in training.  He could get an extra touch at youth level as the centrebacks were not so physically imposing.  Came off a bit battered and bruised against Company!

I like the sound of the lad but loan is no good long term as I assume he would be well out of our price bracket.

We need a striker in that is good enough to replace Graham at the end of the season.  Whether that's good enough immediately or one to develop over the season - and it must be a permanent deal.  I am assuming the CB is with a view to replacing Mulgrew next season.  

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

27 minutes ago, JHRover said:

No indication that we're looking at signing players from abroad or the lower leagues to address our lack of forwards, two areas we should be looking at if we're short on funds. All the talk around loans up top with a permanent move for a back up cb. 

Like last year!

[JBiz]

34 minutes ago, Blueandwhitemike said:

True enough but so is saying fees are irrelevant 

People are suggesting they’d be dissapointed if we didn’t spend at least more than we did for Dack, in that respect- my view is the cost is irrelevant.

Dack is worth far more now, and will be if he can sustain some form in this league - he is an example of what you can get for small transfer fees. I’m excited by the prospect of adding Davenport - for perspective, he cost 1/20th of the total amount spent on Leon Best, inc wages and pay off.

Football has gone daft, historically we have some prime examples of big wages/fees turning out to be carthorses, and plenty of the others - Hughes was a fantastic manager for getting quality for cheap. Generally, proven ability costs more, im not disputing that; but it’s daft rating signings by cost before they’ve even kicked a ball.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Biz

[Blueandwhitemike]

I think that you can’t take too much from friendlies that goes for the Everton game but also the Stanley one, can’t have it both ways. 

I’m still optimistic that we are trying to spend money and are aiming to make a quality permanent signing up front or on the wing.  Mowbray has indicated there’s a bigger budget, Rich Sharpe has too but it was Waggott’s comments that JH mentioned that shows that he really thinks we are going to get someone genuinely exciting to the average fan. 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

19 minutes ago, JHRover said:

No indication that we're looking at signing players from abroad or the lower leagues to address our lack of forwards, two areas we should be looking at if we're short on funds. All the talk around loans up top with a permanent move for a back up cb. 

Which would make it an absolutely terrible window for me. It seems to me we're now scratching around desperately trying to bring in one or two youngsters in on loan simply to bring bodies in because we've been priced out of all our original targets. Regardless of whether said players are duplicating positions in which we are already reasonably well stocked.

Have to agree with Neil's comment on the other thread that We're currently going into a season with one 33 year old up front which is a massive gamble on him maintaining his form and fitness. Also as I mentioned in the other thread I can't for the life of me see the sense in prioritising committing funds on a back up CH after loaning Wharton out.

[Blueandwhitemike]

 @Biz I don’t disagree with what you say generally but it is generally still true the lower the fee the greater the risk.  Yes bargains can be found out there but we have signed two potential ones already, I’m excited by Davenport too.  On the other hand the club have certainly given the impression that there’s a bit of money to spend and it’s not unreasonable for people to want us to use a chunk of it to buy someone with more of a track record and therefore less risk. I’m thinking someone like Maddison myself, or others might prefer the potential for improvement that Armstrong represents. 

Of course higher fees aren’t a guarantee of better players just like a high wage bill doesn’t mean a club will do well but usually players cost more because they are better and teams that spend more usually do better.

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Which would make it an absolutely terrible window for me. It seems to me we're now scratching around desperately trying to bring in one or two youngsters in on loan simply to bring bodies in because we've been priced out of all our original targets. Regardless of whether said players are duplicating positions in which we are already reasonably well stocked.

Have to agree with Neil's comment on the other thread that We're currently going into a season with one 33 year old up front which is a massive gamble on him maintaining his form and fitness. Also as I mentioned in the other thread I can't for the life of me see the sense in prioritising committing funds on a back up CH after loaning Wharton out.

I suspect that a decision has been reached that when signing forwards they are either too expensive or too much of a gamble. When paying money out cash a centre half or full back represents better value or more affordability. The position we need to strengthen is an expensive and tough one to get right, I don't think it's a coincidence that for the last 3 seasons we've addressed that area by recruiting loans en masse. Much easier, cheaper and lower risk, but people then act surprised when we can't get people in until the lastminute and always start the season slowly, I think the reason for that is quite obvious.

[Bigdoggsteel]

52 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think everyone understands that loans are crucial in terms of supplementing the squad, as long as its aswell as permanent signings. The only reason that people would be annoyed is if we only signed loans which is perfectly fair.

The 2 players in question have different question marks around them.

Kasey Palmer, there has been unanimous agreement that he has the ability, proven in particular in playing a key part in getting  Huddersfield promoted. in making a big impact. The only real debate has been how hes going to fit into our team, baring in mind his natural position is where our best player currently plays. Also seen a few people including myself a bit disappointed with the length of the loan suggested but hopefully he will be here for the season, one way or another.

Lukas Nmecha, im unsure how he also fits under the phrase "far better than what we could afford to buy." Hes barely kicked a ball competitively, hes obviously a talent but he must be very raw and theres very little evidence, unlike with Palmer, to suggest that within the next year he would be better than what we could get permanently.

Bauer for me is one where he obviously is more than good enough to be our 3rd centre back, just seems a waste to spend a decent fee on an player who would only play if we had an injury, as much as I appreciate the need for a good squad.

Arsmtrong is in my eyes a winger, he was so effective there and provided far more width than I expected him too, when Samuel and Gallagher have played there for us under Mowbray they looked like strikers playing wide, a bit awkward, whereas Armstrong looked like the position suited him to the ground. If Mowbray is unconvinced after last season then hes a tough one to please, he was excellent.

Nmecha is close enough to breaking into the man City team and is rated highly there. I don't think we will be signings anyone permanently who will be playing for City in the next year or two. So that's what I mean by "far better than what we could buy". That is of course unless Mowbray pulls another Dack out of his hat. 

Ya, I would see Armstrong as a winger too. I think we need a striker first and foremost. I would still like to sign Armstrong though. I think he would be a bargain at 3 million