Thursday deadline.

[Mike E]

Just now, R1verS1deBlue said:

To compete at the top end of the Championship, we NEED to.

If we want to fight relegation, we don't need to.

 

Any questions ?

 

Yes, why demand something so unrealistic?

Even taking your 7 signings at face value, such a high number is likely to disrupt and hinder us imo.

I think Mowbrays aim of building on and supplementing what we already have is more sensible.

If we sign and loan up 4 more attacking options, I'll be happy enough. If any of those include Armstrong, Maddison and Chapman I'll be virtually ecstatic.

[Mike E]

Just now, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

You aren't telling me that agents aren't approached pre transfer bid to get an idea of wages/likelihood of them joining?

If we didn't then that is naive in the extreme.   However, Competition for a signature may drive a contract up. 

Then by correlation,  if you know the initial contract demands and that there is interest in a player....you need to budget accordingly which it appears we haven't done. 

I look forward to working in Spain ?

It could be that we have budgeted accordingly and the goalposts have moved tbf.

[rigger]

16 hours ago, Scotland1 said:

Same squad relegated bar loaners who've gone back, hardly strengthened since two years ago whilst the league is allot tougher and richer now.

You stated that this squad we have now, is weaker than the one relegated, personally I don't agree. The one major improvement is in the manager, who seems to get more out of players. As for the league being tougher we will have to wait and see. I honestly think that we will have enough to compete at this level, but that is only an opinion.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

You aren't telling me that agents aren't approached pre transfer bid to get an idea of wages/likelihood of them joining?

If we didn't then that is naive in the extreme.   However, Competition for a signature may drive a contract up. 

Then by correlation,  if you know the initial contract demands and that there is interest in a player....you need to budget accordingly which it appears we haven't done. 

I look forward to working in Spain ?

I wouldn't mind working there myself, although we had a very tropical summer here this year.

Yes of course agents are approached, but 99% of them undoubtedly give the club ridiculous figures. We think a player is worth 300,000 and should be paid 8,000 per week(based on our current wage structure and what that player has actually achieved to date). The agent says well the club will accept that, but you need to offer him 20,000 a week. The club then say no, we want 2 million for the player. Agent comes back and says, actually he is now talking to another club and they are offering 22,000 per week(I am sure they lie about this). Now imagine that, but with 10 clubs involved with that particular player and his agent. We are probably involved in this dance for around 5 players. As happens every window then, time ticks down and you reach a compromise. The agents can potentially mess things up if call too may bluffs, but these guys are sneaky , real sneaky... 

If it was a case of us paying what the club and agent say first time of asking, we would be getting fleeced left, right and center 

[briansol]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I wouldn't mind working there myself, although we had a very tropical summer here this year.

Yes of course agents are approached, but 99% of them undoubtedly give the club ridiculous figures. We think a player is worth 300,000 and should be paid 8,000 per week(based on our current wage structure and what that player has actually achieved to date). The agent says well the club will accept that, but you need to offer him 20,000 a week. The club then say no, we want 2 million for the player. Agent comes back and says, actually he is now talking to another club and they are offering 22,000 per week(I am sure they lie about this). Now imagine that, but with 10 clubs involved with that particular player and his agent. We are probably involved in this dance for around 5 players. As happens every window then, time ticks down and you reach a compromise. The agents can potentially mess things up if call too may bluffs, but these guys are sneaky , real sneaky... 

If it was a case of us paying what the club and agent say first time of asking, we would be getting fleeced left, right and center 

You are probably right.

Mowbray:    “I am spinning four or five plates at the moment but I feel as if agents run the world.

[roversinmyblood]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Very black and white. Replacing most of our team which won promotion last season would be silly. There is a great team spirit there. The ideal is to compliment the squad with some additional quality. Now is not a time for wholesale changes 

Which is pretty much what Tony has been saying. He seems to see achieving promotion as at least a 2-3 year goal. He wants us to be competitive this year, which I take to mean being a top half team. He feels a few quality additions to a very tight squad will do that. If we could get Armstrong & Chapman back (buy or loan) plus Maddison and a decent target man I think that would be achievable.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, briansol said:

You are probably right.

Mowbray:    “I am spinning four or five plates at the moment but I feel as if agents run the world.

I watched a doc about agents and have read a lot about it. They are basically used car salesmen on steroids. For an honest ,genuine man like Mowbray, it must be frustrating. I would imagine they lie, don't answer calls when it suits and all sorts of other bullshit to try and manipulate things so as to make as much money as possible. A really ,really bad side effect of the modern game and its hyper monetization 

[MarkBRFC]

Mowbray is talking about agents like this is his first season in management, surely by now he knows the score on that front and should know how to deal with them?

[RovingRover]

Interesting little comparison for people to ponder when deciding which has been our best team over the last couple of years.
Personally I think we had a stronger squad last season than we currently do this summer.

If you boil it back to its bare bones. We have effectively swapped the availability of

Harry Chapman (when fit), Marcus Antonsson, Adam Armstrong and Jack Payne for Joe Rothwell and Jacob Davenport.

I suppose you could argue at a push that Rothwell and Davenport replace Chapman and Payne. But for me that doesn't replace the two center forward options we had and doesn't confront the lack of pace availability on the wing that we had last season (which might have been somewhat addressed with Chapman being fit).

For me. We still need at least two center-forwards and a winger, if not two.
In an ideal world we would get another defender to cover for Mulgrew if needed. But at a push I guess we have Wharton and Downing.
 

[JHRover]

33 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Yes, why demand something so unrealistic?

Even taking your 7 signings at face value, such a high number is likely to disrupt and hinder us imo.

I think Mowbrays aim of building on and supplementing what we already have is more sensible.

If we sign and loan up 4 more attacking options, I'll be happy enough. If any of those include Armstrong, Maddison and Chapman I'll be virtually ecstatic.

I don't think 7 signings in total is unrealistic. 7 more from here may well be too much, but 7 including the 2 we've already signed isn't much. That would mean we need another 5, and Mowbray has already suggested at least 2 will be loans meaning we would need 3 more permanent signings. It sounds like Bauer is a top target for a permanent move, so the other 2 would need to be attacking players.

I'm sure when the summer began the number 6 was mentioned as the amount of new signings required.

When we consider that we lost Ward, Feeney, Armstrong, Payne and Antonsson at the end of the season that's 5 departures. The first 2 we were happy to see the back of but nonetheless they were back-up options we no longer have. So I'd argue that we'd need at least 5 to get the numbers back to what they were, before we consider the quality of the additions.

[JHRover]

Just now, RovingRover said:

Interesting little comparison for people to ponder when deciding which has been our best team over the last couple of years.
Personally I think we had a stronger squad last season than we currently do this summer.

If you boil it back to its bare bones. We have effectively swapped the availability of

Harry Chapman (when fit), Marcus Antonsson, Adam Armstrong and Jack Payne for Joe Rothwell and Jacob Davenport.

I suppose you could argue at a push that Rothwell and Davenport replace Chapman and Payne. But for me that doesn't replace the two center forward options we had and doesn't confront the lack of pace availability on the wing that we had last season (which might have been somewhat addressed with Chapman being fit).

For me. We still need at least two center-forwards and a winger, if not two.
In an ideal world we would get another defender to cover for Mulgrew if needed. But at a push I guess we have Wharton and Downing.
 

Comparing the 1st column to the 3rd column the big issue is up front. Having gone to Brentford with Graham and Gallagher in the 1st XI and Joao and Emnes on the bench that was quite a strong attacking line up. Now we've Graham in the 1st XI and Samuel on the bench. Much, much weaker.

I'd also forgotten about Hoban who whilst injured for long spells was a decent CB to have as back-up.

[ruggles1995]

I imagine (and for most clubs) that deals will be done towards the end of the tranfer window. Due to the world cup the big teams have had to take squad/young players on their tours and friendlies to have enough players to use in friendlies. I dont imagine many prem clubs will want to do many deals in terms of letting players go at this stage.

Edited July 19, 2018 by ruggles1995

[MarkBRFC]

Thing is, we shouldn't really be scrapping around for loans at this stage of the window, we have another 6 weeks to worry about loans.

The permanent window closes in around 3 weeks, they are the signings (if indeed there is any) that we should be looking to get over the line.

[BigBar]

59 minutes ago, RovingRover said:

Interesting little comparison for people to ponder when deciding which has been our best team over the last couple of years.
Personally I think we had a stronger squad last season than we currently do this summer.

If you boil it back to its bare bones. We have effectively swapped the availability of

Harry Chapman (when fit), Marcus Antonsson, Adam Armstrong and Jack Payne for Joe Rothwell and Jacob Davenport.

I suppose you could argue at a push that Rothwell and Davenport replace Chapman and Payne. But for me that doesn't replace the two center forward options we had and doesn't confront the lack of pace availability on the wing that we had last season (which might have been somewhat addressed with Chapman being fit).

For me. We still need at least two center-forwards and a winger, if not two.
In an ideal world we would get another defender to cover for Mulgrew if needed. But at a push I guess we have Wharton and Downing.
 

Not posted in awhile..all 3 are very average on paper..seems the Championship is very unique in maybe the manager is more important than the quality of the squad. If the manager can get a tune out of his team and get the tactics right anyone can be up around the playoffs..if you were purely depending on it player for player we would be mid to low table, the recruitment in the next month will be very interesting.

[Angry_Pirate]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

Thing is, we shouldn't really be scrapping around for loans at this stage of the window, we have another 6 weeks to worry about loans.

The permanent window closes in around 3 weeks, they are the signings (if indeed there is any) that we should be looking to get over the line.

Agree 100%

Deadline day: Premier League Club X signs Player Y for £50m pushing fringe first team player to surprise loan... whilst Blackburn have wasted their budget on Rekeem Harper, Doniel Henry and Martin Samuelson.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I wouldn't mind working there myself, although we had a very tropical summer here this year.

Yes of course agents are approached, but 99% of them undoubtedly give the club ridiculous figures. We think a player is worth 300,000 and should be paid 8,000 per week(based on our current wage structure and what that player has actually achieved to date). The agent says well the club will accept that, but you need to offer him 20,000 a week. The club then say no, we want 2 million for the player. Agent comes back and says, actually he is now talking to another club and they are offering 22,000 per week(I am sure they lie about this). Now imagine that, but with 10 clubs involved with that particular player and his agent. We are probably involved in this dance for around 5 players. As happens every window then, time ticks down and you reach a compromise. The agents can potentially mess things up if call too may bluffs, but these guys are sneaky , real sneaky... 

If it was a case of us paying what the club and agent say first time of asking, we would be getting fleeced left, right and center 

Exactly.  So we shouldn't be surprised if goal posts get constantly moved.  It's supply and demand of a single individual. If you want the player enough, make sure you budget for them..

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Exactly.  So we shouldn't be surprised if goal posts get constantly moved.  It's supply and demand of a single individual. If you want the player enough, make sure you budget for them..

Our budget needs to stop somewhere though. We shouldn't be held to ransom or pay more than a player is worth. It's a waiting game. Burnley, Spurs and Everton are all yet to make a signing. It's not easy, even when you have bags of cash. 

[Lucimo]

15 minutes ago, BigBar said:

Not posted in awhile..all 3 are very average on paper..seems the Championship is very unique in maybe the manager is more important than the quality of the squad. If the manager can get a tune out of his team and get the tactics right anyone can be up around the playoffs..if you were purely depending on it player for player we would be mid to low table, the recruitment in the next month will be very interesting.

Eg Sean Dyche. Took an average Burnley side up and has kept them there

[Fraserkirky]

That Nmecha kid from City looks great! Hope it’s him. Can play Inside Forward in the 4-2-3-1.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Fraserkirky

[BigBar]

Just now, JayDee said:

Eg Sean Dyche. Took an average Burnley side up and has kept them there

Exactly, Huddersfield too..Happens a lot pal..Look at Millwall, Sheff U, Brentford and Bristol last season..they were really motoring and there squads aint setting the world a light..

Get the basics going and a strong team ethic and its half the battle in this division.

 

[Lie_still_Rover]

If TM has 3-5 million to spend I imagine he's trying to make it go as far as possible- he needs to strengthen in multiple areas as people have pointed out,  it would be a bit foolish to blow it all on one or two players..

Armstrong- Loan with an agreement to buy, give them a 20% sell on fee 

Chapman- I'd try and buy him, 1 million with add ons and a sell on fee

Get them cheap but give their respective teams the potential to make big money in the future should/when they come good..

Both vital for me, bring pace and energy, we already know they fit in well, they'd be my priority.

I'd then be looking for a few more loan signings, maybe a bit of experience, another striker.
 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Mowbray is talking about agents like this is his first season in management, surely by now he knows the score on that front and should know how to deal with them?

Not that simple unfortunately. He may know how to deal with them and probably does so as well as anybody, but they are cnuts and are constantly evolving into even more snakey forms 

Isn't that right @JAL

Edited July 19, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[BrisRover]

I’m probably dreaming and it’s wishful thinking but could it be Daniel Arzani as the ‘Manchester City’ youngster. It looks as though he has been in negotiations with City for sometime now and maybe Roma’s late interest has stalled the move. I read that in the case that City signed him they were going to loan him out to adjust. Probably a 1 + 1 = 4 scenario and a lot of maybes but there you go ?

https://www.news.com.au/sport/football/report-italian-club-roma-chasing-socceroo-daniel-arzani/news-story/f8bf7b1032a34e7ebe617a518c20d69c

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/football/socceroos/italian-club-roma-are-believed-to-be-interested-in-daniel-arzani/news-story/4a68420d49d7405457d08f580b93741d

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Our budget needs to stop somewhere though. We shouldn't be held to ransom or pay more than a player is worth. It's a waiting game. Burnley, Spurs and Everton are all yet to make a signing. It's not easy, even when you have bags of cash. 

Did you have to mention them 

[Lie_still_Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not that simple unfortunately. He may know how to deal with them and probably does so as well as anybody, but they are cnuts and are constantly evolving into even more snakey forms 

Like the shape-shifting Reptillians, David Icke talks of?