Thursday deadline.

[DE.]

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Nobody I would have thought. But the way Sharp has been writing it suggests that it is something we should be hotly anticipating as though we mean business and are set to splash the cash.

£750k in League One was a lot of money for one player, in the Championship its peanuts. We also pulled off a coup with Dack because he'd had a quiet season before coming here and Gillingham needed the money.

I would have expected considerably more to be invested this summer ahead of our Championship return yet the Telegraph are at work trying to convince readers that £750,000 or so is big money. It isn't.

 

I've seen people use Cardiff and Fulham as examples of teams who haven't spent big but got promoted. Cardiff's net spend since the 14/15 season is £17m, Fulham £29m. I imagine in comparison Rovers have earned far more than we spent. We don't even seem to have a million to spend on a player these days. We're a long way from being seriously competitive in this league - our goal now appears to be surviving with as little outlay as possible. I don't see that ending well.

[JBiz]

10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You're forgetting about last season's big name signing - Whittingham.  As a manager you live or die by your signings and Mowbray has got as many wrong as he has got right. 

I disagree.

For a manager who had to totally rebuild the squad in a division below, who had only spent 1.2million and signed 11 permenant signings in 12 months, I think he’s done very well. Add 4 of the 5 loans of (ignoring Harper), Antonsson, Armstrong, Payne and Chapman to Dack, Smallwood, Bell, Samuel, Downing, Nuttall and Leutwiler - that’s a better hit rate since the only real flops are Gladwin, Whittingham and Hart. Two of those we would have said looked decent signings on the face of it.

 

 

[yellowsubmarine]

Gladwin is a strange one. Had high hopes for him (after watching his Youtube videos). I really thought he will be a big attacking outlet for us last season.

[TruRover]

surely it would make sense to loan a defender and then get Bauer at the right price in January when he has 6months left or on a pre contract? 

We need permanent attacking signings or we will end up needing to rebuild our attack again like we have need to this season (and so far failed to do).

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

I've seen people use Cardiff and Fulham as examples of teams who haven't spent big but got promoted. Cardiff's net spend since the 14/15 season is £17m, Fulham £29m. I imagine in comparison Rovers have earned far more than we spent. We don't even seem to have a million to spend on a player these days. We're a long way from being seriously competitive in this league - our goal now appears to be surviving with as little outlay as possible. I don't see that ending well.

The problem is DE - between 2011 and 2015, we spent 100m+ more than we earned, and that will be a noose around our neck until the day these owners decide to walk away! 

[JHRover]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

I disagree.

For a manager who had to totally rebuild the squad in a division below, who had only spent 1.2million and signed 11 permenant signings in 12 months, I think he’s done very well. Add 4 of the 5 loans of (ignoring Harper), Antonsson, Armstrong, Payne and Chapman to Dack, Smallwood, Bell, Samuel, Downing, Nuttall and Leutwiler - that’s a better hit rate since the only real flops are Gladwin, Whittingham and Hart. Two of those we would have said looked decent signings on the face of it.

 

 

If we start at Ipswich with the same XI that started v Everton last week then only 4 of them will have arrived at the club under Mowbray's management - Smallwood, Bell, Dack and Samuel - none of which have ever performed successfully in the Championship in their careers. I'd also expect Williams to come in for Bell at LB which takes it to 3.

I appreciate the job Mowbray has done and think he deserves a lot of respect for it but this notion that he has completely revolutionised the squad in a short space of time isn't correct.

Less than half of our 'strongest' XI he signed, the rest were here before.

He has done well to reinstate some pride in the club and obviously the only true measure of his ability is what results he delivers and he delivered promotion.

[K-Hod]

6 minutes ago, Biz said:

I disagree.

For a manager who had to totally rebuild the squad in a division below, who had only spent 1.2million and signed 11 permenant signings in 12 months, I think he’s done very well. Add 4 of the 5 loans of (ignoring Harper), Antonsson, Armstrong, Payne and Chapman to Dack, Smallwood, Bell, Samuel, Downing, Nuttall and Leutwiler - that’s a better hit rate since the only real flops are Gladwin, Whittingham and Hart. Two of those we would have said looked decent signings on the face of it.

 

 

Hmmmm.

Antonsson- chipped in with some vital goals initially, but then faded badly after his injury. 

Armstrong made a big contribution when he came in on loan.

Payne, hit and miss.

Chapman didn't get enough game time for me, but he looked very promising when he did.

Dack- awesome signing.

Smallwood- Looked excellent to begin with, but I felt that bookings thing kept him reined in too much.....

Bell- Hardly played.

Samuel- I've not completely given up hope on him, but I want to see more from him.

Downing- Did a job for a bit.

Nuttall- Hopefully he does a job in the future.

Leutwiler- Has he played? I've never watched him.

Edited July 30, 2018 by K-Hod

[blueboy3333]

5 minutes ago, Biz said:

I disagree.

For a manager who had to totally rebuild the squad in a division below, who had only spent 1.2million and signed 11 permenant signings in 12 months, I think he’s done very well. Add 4 of the 5 loans of (ignoring Harper), Antonsson, Armstrong, Payne and Chapman to Dack, Smallwood, Bell, Samuel, Downing, Nuttall and Leutwiler - that’s a better hit rate since the only real flops are Gladwin, Whittingham and Hart. Two of those we would have said looked decent signings on the face of it.

 

 

I don't think you could argue that Samuel has been anything other than a comparative flop so far, considering how much of our budget he took up. Apart from that I'd agree that Mowbray, on balance,  has done fairly well in the transfer market, and very well in the loan market (Harper notwithstanding). Dack alone could be worth anything up to £20m by next summer if he carries on where he left off last year. Mowbray's best work this summer has been getting our best players tied down to long-term contracts. A fair chunk of his 'competitive budget' has probably gone there.

Edited July 30, 2018 by blueboy3333

[HowieFive0]

27 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You're forgetting about last season's big name signing - Whittingham.  As a manager you live or die by your signings and Mowbray has got as many wrong as he has got right. 

Live or die by your signings ? i always thought a manager lived or died by actual results. And as he got the results right last season with the players he brought in and gained promotion  then hes in credit with me ..at the moment.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

11 minutes ago, tomphil said:

750 to 1 mill should get a good defender who can maybe add some steel to the composure of Mulgrew and the youth of Lenihen, might even allow a decent version of the dreaded 3 at the back ?

Sadly similar money would probably only get a Samuel type forward in but a good loan fee might get a decent striker so I can see where he might be going on this. All about consolidation next season whilst the rebuilding continues, build from the back as they always say. Something a lot of previous management never got to grips with !

Its not rebuilding though. The attacking end of the pitch has been neglected since Gestede, Rhodes and King left.  Our only decent striker is a 32 year old who struggles to play a full 90 and has been known to let his fitness drop.  We need permanent players up top..  Why the helll would we not loan a squad filling CB?  

[blueboy3333]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Hmmmm.

Antonsson- chipped in with some vital goals initially, but then faded badly after his injury. 

Armstrong made a big contribution when he came in on loan.

Payne, hit and miss.

Chapman didn't get enough game time for me, but he looked very promising when he did.

Dack- awesome signing.

Smallwood- Looked excellent to begin with, but I felt that bookings thing kept him reined in too much.....

Bell- Hardly played.

Samuel- I've not completely given up hope on him, but I want to see more from him.

Downing- Did a job for a bit.

Nuttall- Hopefully he does a job in the future.

Leutwiler- Has he played? I've never watched him.

Dack alone nullifies the bad ones*. Forever.

*apart from Gladwin

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

12 minutes ago, Biz said:

I disagree.

For a manager who had to totally rebuild the squad in a division below, who had only spent 1.2million and signed 11 permenant signings in 12 months, I think he’s done very well. Add 4 of the 5 loans of (ignoring Harper), Antonsson, Armstrong, Payne and Chapman to Dack, Smallwood, Bell, Samuel, Downing, Nuttall and Leutwiler - that’s a better hit rate since the only real flops are Gladwin, Whittingham and Hart. Two of those we would have said looked decent signings on the face of it.

 

 

Not sure you can add Leutwiler, Samuel, Nuttall and Bell to that list.  Jury is out on those - Samuel poor overall.  The other 3 haven't really featured enough.  Over time they may be a success but not presently.  

Look at it this way.  80 % of his loans were successful...probably because they were a better quality of player than we had.  The standard of player we should be adding permanently upon promotion.

[JHRover]

5 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Its not rebuilding though. The attacking end of the pitch has been neglected since Gestede, Rhodes and King left.  Our only decent striker is a 32 year old who struggles to play a full 90 and has been known to let his fitness drop.  We need permanent players up top..  Why the helll would we not loan a squad filling CB?  

Agree that for some reason this area has been deliberately or otherwise neglected for the last 3-4 years. We filled up last year with the Armstrong and Antonsson loans, before that it was Gallagher, Emnes and Joao. Season before that we were mucking around signing Simeon Jackson mid-season after selling Rhodes.

I could accept the slow, gradual build job narrative if we saw a piece by piece construction but all we seem to want to do in that area of the pitch is get by as easily and cheaply as possible. At best we'll be in the exact same position next summer as we are now as Graham will be a year older and the loans we're getting will be off again. Unless Samuel surprises.

[JHRover]

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16385732.wanderers-try-to-nab-charlton-man-from-under-blackburns-noses/

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Not sure you can add Leutwiler, Samuel, Nuttall and Bell to that list.  Jury is out on those - Samuel poor overall.  The other 3 haven't really featured enough.  Over time they may be a success but not presently.  

Look at it this way.  80 % of his loans were successful...probably because they were a better quality of player than we had.  The standard of player we should be adding permanently upon promotion.

True. Unfortunately we can't afford it. Which makes the pronouncements of Mowbray and Waggott about a competitive budget and quality signings all the more bizarre. Either something has changed or they were telling porkies to flog ST's.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

If we start at Ipswich with the same XI that started v Everton last week then only 4 of them will have arrived at the club under Mowbray's management - Smallwood, Bell, Dack and Samuel - none of which have ever performed successfully in the Championship in their careers. I'd also expect Williams to come in for Bell at LB which takes it to 3.

I appreciate the job Mowbray has done and think he deserves a lot of respect for it but this notion that he has completely revolutionised the squad in a short space of time isn't correct.

Less than half of our 'strongest' XI he signed, the rest were here before.

He has done well to reinstate some pride in the club and obviously the only true measure of his ability is what results he delivers and he delivered promotion.

So he deserves no credit for bringing the best out of those still here, namely the kids like Nyambe, Raya or Travis? Or what about the improvements in Evans and Williams? All of his significant outlays have been successes, and when you have a small pot to piss in - it’s key to success.

Equally, Rhodes et al and many other expensive acquisitions had 0 experience in the championship, so I don’t see the relevance to that. The argument was the amount of “flops” in the market.

3 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Hmmmm.

Antonsson- chipped in with some vital goals initially, but then faded badly after his injury. 

Armstrong made a big contribution when he came in on loan.

Payne, hit and miss.

Chapman didn't get enough game time for me, but he looked very promising when he did.

Dack- awesome signing.

Smallwood- Looked excellent to begin with, but I felt that bookings thing kept him reined in too much.....

Bell- Hardly played.

Samuel- I've not completely given up hope on him, but I want to see more from him.

Downing- Did a job for a bit.

Nuttall- Hopefully he does a job in the future.

Leutwiler- Has he played? I've never watched him.

Antonsson and Armstrong worked well. Yes Marcus didn’t get back in after injury but you can’t say either of those are “flops”

Payne made some good contributions, particularly on the run in. Similar to Chapmans early season form. You can hardly blame the management for his two injuries.

Smallwood and Dack the best two for me. Bell has definitely improved the squad, he looks a good left back, it’s hard to argue - certainly is no flop.

Leutwiler and Caddis did their jobs too - we needed able backups. Leutwiler even ensured we didn’t have to play any games without Mulgrew.. I think Caddis is unfit but I couldn’t call his signing a flop, he offered an option when had no Nyambe or Bennett. The two year contract on the other hand...

As for Samuel, I agree. All the prerequisites to be a dangerous strike just needs to find more consistency and sharpen his touch. Definitely not a flop, and definitely useful this season.

Nuttall scores a few goals for the first team and I hope he can step up again. Definitely a different style of partner for our other attackers. Signing a flop? Give me a break.

1 minute ago, blueboy3333 said:

I don't think you could argue that Samuel has been anything other than a comparative flop so far, considering how much of our budget he took up. Apart from that I'd agree that Mowbray, on balance,  has done fairly well in the transfer market. Dack alone could be worth anything up to £20m by next summer if he carries on where he left off last year. Mowbray's best work this summer has been getting our best players tied down to long-term contracts. A fair chunk of his 'competitive budget' has probably gone there.

I agree B.B. (great to see you back btw) but I think Samuel is a run of good form away from being in a similar boat - he has pace, power, finishing, heading - I just don’t think he’s settled on exactly what kind of striker he is. He came sort of advertised as a quick poacher style, I think he is more of a destroyer in the making - a Roberts style player.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

I agree B.B. (great to see you back btw)

If only you were a mod?

[islander200]

 

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

True. Unfortunately we can't afford it. Which makes the pronouncements of Mowbray and Waggott about a competitive budget and quality signings all the more bizarre. Either something has changed or they were telling porkies to flog ST's.

I would have accepted it if they where honest about it.But we have been told all summer that we have a competitive budget, we will see some exciting talent coming in etc etc 

To date we have spent 400k max if you take into account the 425k we recieved for Mahoney 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Agree that for some reason this area has been deliberately or otherwise neglected for the last 3-4 years. We filled up last year with the Armstrong and Antonsson loans, before that it was Gallagher, Emnes and Joao. Season before that we were mucking around signing Simeon Jackson mid-season after selling Rhodes.

I could accept the slow, gradual build job narrative if we saw a piece by piece construction but all we seem to want to do in that area of the pitch is get by as easily and cheaply as possible. At best we'll be in the exact same position next summer as we are now as Graham will be a year older and the loans we're getting will be off again. Unless Samuel surprises.

The only logical conclusion is that the money isn't there to bring in good enough players.

[JBiz]

6 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Not sure you can add Leutwiler, Samuel, Nuttall and Bell to that list.  Jury is out on those - Samuel poor overall.  The other 3 haven't really featured enough.  Over time they may be a success but not presently.  

Look at it this way.  80 % of his loans were successful...probably because they were a better quality of player than we had.  The standard of player we should be adding permanently upon promotion.

It’s about wording “Mowbray got as many wrong as right”... it’s hard to say Leutwiler (brought in as a backup GK) or Caddis (backup RB) are “wrong” since they came to backup the main squad as cheap options. I agree they aren’t particular “right” either but it’s important to have that scope.

Weve spent actual fees/money on 3 players in the past 12 months and all of them will be of use in 18/19

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Ok, Clutching at straws time now...  Rovers have tweeted:

It’s set to be a busy week in the #Rovers media department, so we’ve recruited a familiar face to lend a helping hand. Let’s get to work, #AgentBenno!

 

Bennett has been using his AgentBenno tag when asked to get Chapman and Armstrong back on twitter.  

So they must be signing this week...right?  

Followed by the next tweet pushing Season Tickets!

[JHRover]

6 minutes ago, Biz said:

So he deserves no credit for bringing the best out of those still here, namely the kids like Nyambe, Raya or Travis? Or what about the improvements in Evans and Williams? All of his significant outlays have been successes, and when you have a small pot to piss in - it’s key to success.

Equally, Rhodes et al and many other expensive acquisitions had 0 experience in the championship, so I don’t see the relevance to that. The argument was the amount of “flops” in the market.

 

I'm not trying to bash Mowbray here. I've already said that his success in leading us to promotion vastly outweighs poor transfers and justified everything he did. He's in credit, significantly.

But coming back to those players he has brought in I think it is wrong to suggest that his recruitment has been brilliant and that he's revolutionised the club with it. As explained above the likelihood is that 7 of our 11 at Ipswich will be players who were here before he was. The 'big ones' of Mulgrew, Lenihan, Bennett and Graham were given debuts or in Lenihan's case given a central role under the very unpopular Coyle and Lambert.

Dack was a massive success and will probably make the owners a lot of money when they sell him, much more than the cost of our transfers over the last 4 years combined. That alone makes it even more odd that they won't fund Mowbray to a higher level. Surely they know that Dack has been a big success and will make millions in profit and they want some more of that from other signings? Surely they know that they won't ever profit from borrowing other club's players?

When Rhodes arrived he was unproven in the Championship and a gamble, particularly for the cash we paid, yet there was confidence he would do it as he had done it to an exceptional level for several years in League One. Almost immediately following his arrival it was clear he was going to score a lot of goals for us. Hopefully Samuel and Dack will follow and be good Championship players, but at the moment they aren't.

 

[yellowsubmarine]

Wonder if he's still available?

http://www.itsroundanditswhite.co.uk/articles/marvin-emnes-without-a-club

[47er]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

If we use any cash for a defender rather than an attacker it will be bemusing, it wasn’t a priority at the start of the window and still isn’t although we have made it more of an issue by sending Wharton out.

Moreover we are looking like we will be over-reliant on loans, a position TM said he didn't want to be in.

[J*B]

If we finished up with this...

IN
Sam Gallagher (Perm)
Kasey Palmer (loan)
Lucas Nmecha (loan)
Back up CH (Perm) 

OUT
Caddis (free)

Gladwin (loan)
Nuttall (loan)

Would everyone be disappointed?