Thursday deadline.

[Paul Mani]

2 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

I'm sure I don't need to point out the bleedin' obvious Bob.  It would be nice to see a permanent signing of this caliber. 

What??? A permenant signing of this calibre would cost us £7m - £10m....which we can’t afford.

But seriously, other than resale value, what is the difference for us? 

[Oldgregg86]

2 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

He’s going to be playing for us this season. So other than resale value, what’s the difference? More importantly, IF we were actually looking to purchase him he would be far too expensive. So isn’t loaning him actually an amazing option? We’re getting the services of someone who’s arguably better than Dack for a fraction of what he’s worth....how can anyone find a negative in that? ??‍♂️

I get your point regarding the players value to the team but isn't resale value the whole model of our humble club

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

I get your point regarding the players value to the team but isn't resale value the whole model of our humble club

Maybe to Venkys, but we as fans aren’t bothered about resale. We just want the best players possible playing for us, right?

[K-Hod]

37 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

 

Can you rein it in a bit, please?

[bob fleming]

2 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

I'm sure I don't need to point out the bleedin' obvious Bob.  It would be nice to see a permanent signing of this caliber. 

Indeed it would. Very true.

It would also be nice to be owned by a multi billionaire. Archibald? Ardiles? They were on loan.

[J*B]

57 minutes ago, pomster said:

ihttp://www.skysports.com/football/news/11694/11454677/birmingham-city-confirm-transfer-embargo-by-english-football-league

Hello? Hello..? Gary? Its Tony Mowbray here. Bad news about the embargo, but I'm here to help. Paul Caddis is on the train as we speak. No charge.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

16 minutes ago, bob fleming said:

Indeed it would. Very true.

It would also be nice to be owned by a multi billionaire. Archibald? Ardiles? They were on loan.

...and also achieved a little more than Kasey Palmer has to date.  Permanent signings are ours to develop - for good or for ill - traditionally more likely to give a s%%% when the going gets tough.  

Don't get me wrong - the lad could be a great signing for us.  Lets hope he has a fantastic season. 

 

Then we can reminisce next season about how good he was compared to the next loanee ??

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

35 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

He’s going to be playing for us this season. So other than resale value, what’s the difference? More importantly, IF we were actually looking to purchase him he would be far too expensive. So isn’t loaning him actually an amazing option? We’re getting the services of someone who’s arguably better than Dack for a fraction of what he’s worth....how can anyone find a negative in that? ??‍♂️

I imagine it's not a cheap option.  Listen, I get the we could never afford him business...but at the end of the day, he isn't ours and he won't be here next year.  Personally, I'd rather we tried to buy some quality permanently.  Call me old fashioned!

[DE.]

10 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

I imagine it's not a cheap option.  Listen, I get the we could never afford him business...but at the end of the day, he isn't ours and he won't be here next year.  Personally, I'd rather we tried to buy some quality permanently.  Call me old fashioned!

The main issue with loan signings is that they usually have one eye elsewhere, especially if the going starts to get tough. I like the Palmer signing but would certainly be more assured by a couple of decent permanents on sensible contracts. 

[JeffRover]

The reality is we can speculate, guess and moan at hypotheticals but Rovers business is done strictly under wraps these days. Even when players are correctly identified such as Davenport, they said it was a loan when actually it was permanent, and for Palmer they got the length of loan incorrect. The reality is it wouldn’t surprise me if we signed someone that we haven’t been linked with and catch everyone off guard. Let’s hope that is the case and if so let’s hope it’s a good permanent addition.

[JacknOry]

55 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Maybe to Venkys, but we as fans aren’t bothered about resale. We just want the best players possible playing for us, right?

Ummm no...most fans do care about resale value considering the state of the club right now. This aint football manager where you go eat your dinner in a happy mood despite being relegated. 

Look at Dack, if he can fetches 30 mil in a season or two (which isnt exactly unrealistic in todays market), we are a good chunk closer to this lot selling up. The kid is a great loan signing, dont think I have seen anyone say anything other than that but at the end of that day, its adding no value to the club whatsoever. Bring in a couple of perms that could benefit the club both on the pitch and financially and supplement them with these loans and we should be fine. 

[Jim Royle]

Kevin Arnott - I think he was my first loanee legend

[markhayhurst]

7 minutes ago, Jim Royle said:

Kevin Arnott - I think he was my first loanee legend

Archebold Ardilles ?

Spelling: Archibald Ardiles

Edited July 30, 2018 by markhayhurst

[bob fleming]

4 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Ummm no...most fans do care about resale value considering the state of the club right now. This aint football manager where you go eat your dinner in a happy mood despite being relegated. 

Look at Dack, if he can fetches 30 mil in a season or two (which isnt exactly unrealistic in todays market), we are a good chunk closer to this lot selling up. The kid is a great loan signing, dont think I have seen anyone say anything other than that but at the end of that day, its adding no value to the club whatsoever. Bring in a couple of perms that could benefit the club both on the pitch and financially and supplement them with these loans and we should be fine. 

Really? And what is the goal this season? What is the aim? If that were to be achieved, against the odds, then that would add considerable value to the club. It would also greatly enhance our chances of signing him. Plus making the club far more attractive to a buyer (this lot could do anything mind you) than merely selling a Dack or two.

Anyway, it’s all a bit pie in the sky. He’s our player until the end of the season. Let’s hope he’s a good un. 

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

What??? A permenant signing of this calibre would cost us £7m - £10m....which we can’t afford.

But seriously, other than resale value, what is the difference for us? 

I'm happy with this signing, but since you ask...

1. Loanees are less invested, because they can easily start over the next season whatever happens.

2. The parent club can usually recall them in January anyway, leaving us hanging.

3. It is rare to loan a player two seasons in a row, so the likelihood is that next summer we need to roll the dice on another loan, as opposed to a permanent player who we can develop for ourselves instead of others.

4. A permanent signing will usually put roots down in the area, enabling them to settle better.

5. There have been known to be fines for not playing the loanee even if they don't find form (although I do think the Kent thing is a rarity).

That's without getting into the debate that the resale value thing is pretty important, especially with the FUP (FFP) rules and only limited investment from the owners (they cover debts but they don't release extra funds much).

Happy with the deal though, as long as we get a permanent winger/forward or two also.

[Neal]

A lot of talk of loans, resale value etc... Are people forgetting who owns the club in this Mowbray euphoria? Are people forgetting how they sold around 40 million pounds worth of players in 18 months and reinvested 300k in Derek Williams? If we get a decent player be it a loan of perm, be happy cus the bottom line is it doesn't really matter as sales are highly unlikely to be reinvested. 

[JeffRover]

6 minutes ago, Neal said:

A lot of talk of loans, resale value etc... Are people forgetting who owns the club in this Mowbray euphoria? Are people forgetting how they sold around 40 million pounds worth of players in 18 months and reinvested 300k in Derek Williams? If we get a decent player be it a loan of perm, be happy cus the bottom line is it doesn't really matter as sales are highly unlikely to be reinvested. 

I’m not saying we’d have spent loads in the summer of 2016 but I think part of Coyle being given the job was that he agreed to work with practically no budget whereas almost all other managers would have looked for some level of commitment, especially Warnock.

Edited July 30, 2018 by JeffRover

[roverandout]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Maybe to Venkys, but we as fans aren’t bothered about resale. We just want the best players possible playing for us, right?

When is that going to happen?

[JacknOry]

44 minutes ago, bob fleming said:

Really? And what is the goal this season? What is the aim? If that were to be achieved, against the odds, then that would add considerable value to the club. It would also greatly enhance our chances of signing him. Plus making the club far more attractive to a buyer (this lot could do anything mind you) than merely selling a Dack or two.

Anyway, it’s all a bit pie in the sky. He’s our player until the end of the season. Let’s hope he’s a good un. 

Out of my entire post you picked up on that?

Was just a reply to Paul Mani who believes fans ultimately dont give a toss about the club and would rather we go bust getting the best possible players as long as they are on the pitch.

Of course the ultimate 'minimum' aim is to stay in the Champioship and there is that value but at the end of the season he just departs and goes off to his third club in three years. I am not disputing this loan at all as believe he could be a big factor for us but overall we should not be relying on loans too much and just hope we bring in some permanent signings that are an investment for the club.

[Waggy76]

1 hour ago, Jim Royle said:

Kevin Arnott - I think he was my first loanee legend

Terry Shanahan my first loaner..

I think from Halifax Town !

[Neal]

14 minutes ago, JeffRover said:

I’m not saying we’d have spent loads in the summer of 2016 but I think part of Coyle being given the job was that he agreed to work with practically no budget whereas almost all other managers would have looked for some level of commitment, especially Warnock.

Post wasn't particularly aimed at you just a general commentary that debating the advantages of loans and permenant signings are pointless from a fans perspective because we don't see sales reinvested into playing staff anyway. I understand why people crave permenant signings, I still do, I guess its a sort of tribal thing of a player belonging to us but I've come to accept in modern football, in our circumstances... It doesn't really matter anymore. 

[Stuart]

29 minutes ago, JeffRover said:

I’m not saying we’d have spent loads in the summer of 2016 but I think part of Coyle being given the job was that he agreed to work with practically no budget whereas almost all other managers would have looked for some level of commitment, especially Warnock.

With “some level of commitment” Warnock would have probably had us promoted instead of relegated.

[Paul Mani]

51 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I'm happy with this signing, but since you ask...

1. Loanees are less invested, because they can easily start over the next season whatever happens.

2. The parent club can usually recall them in January anyway, leaving us hanging.

3. It is rare to loan a player two seasons in a row, so the likelihood is that next summer we need to roll the dice on another loan, as opposed to a permanent player who we can develop for ourselves instead of others.

4. A permanent signing will usually put roots down in the area, enabling them to settle better.

5. There have been known to be fines for not playing the loanee even if they don't find form (although I do think the Kent thing is a rarity).

That's without getting into the debate that the resale value thing is pretty important, especially with the FUP (FFP) rules and only limited investment from the owners (they cover debts but they don't release extra funds much).

Happy with the deal though, as long as we get a permanent winger/forward or two also.

All pure opinions which can be flipped dependant on your motives. 

1. Players are motivated by many different things. If Palmer bombs out with us, what chance does he have getting in Chelsea’s first team? Is that not motive enough?

2. The recall thing is either in or out of the deal. 

3. If we have a good season but don’t go up do you think many of our top players will still be here next season? Lenihan, Dack etc...will likely be gone. The money doesn’t mean anything to us because it doesn’t get reinvested with The Vs. So what’s the difference?

4. Yeah maybe.

5. Fines thing same as recall thing. Negotiated in the deal but not every time.

But what’s the alternative? Buy lesser talented players? Because we definitely couldn’t afford Kasey Palmers transfer fee...

You can’t have all loans but ones like these are the best we can hope for. I for one have no interest in us signing lesser but permenant players.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

7 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

 

But what’s the alternative? Buy lesser talented players? Because we definitely couldn’t afford Kasey Palmers transfer fee...

You can’t have all loans but ones like these are the best we can hope for. I for one have no interest in us signing lesser but permenant players.

On that basis and given how highly you rate Palmer, it's unlikely you will be impressed with any future permanent signing.

Get behind the lads ffs

?

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, JeffRover said:

The reality is we can speculate, guess and moan at hypotheticals but Rovers business is done strictly under wraps these days. Even when players are correctly identified such as Davenport, they said it was a loan when actually it was permanent, and for Palmer they got the length of loan incorrect. The reality is it wouldn’t surprise me if we signed someone that we haven’t been linked with and catch everyone off guard. Let’s hope that is the case and if so let’s hope it’s a good permanent addition.

Very good post and welcome to the messageboard