Thursday deadline.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Blackburn Rovers linked with Forest midfielder Ben Osborn

http://the72.co.uk/103663/stoke-blackburn-chasing-forest-midfielder/

That article says we won league 1

Seriously. How difficult is it to get that right? 

[Norbert Rassragr]

2 hours ago, Tormund said:

If we are looking for another defender - I’d be looking at Jordan Willis the centre back who scored in the playoff final today for Coventry. Big, young and athletic. 

He can sometimes be absolute poop though. Coventry City/SISU are the kind of team who'd sell any academy hot shot as soon as a club is interested. Maddison, Wilson, Christie, Murphy...........they've all been sold whilst Jordan has stayed. He can be pretty good, but I think he'd need a dominant, John Terry type alongside him. He's not a leader, but then City are the sort of team that have consistently lacked one to organise the team and galvanise the dressing room.

[tomphil]

16 minutes ago, Gladwingone said:

NO 3rd DIVISION PLAYERS !!!

No but we'll take  couple of young hungry players from there who maybe are too good to be there and would just love the opportunity to come to Rovers not for money but for Championship football ?

[Hasta]

4 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

Shrews fans seem to think very highly of Henderson, and that there is no way he should be playing in League One. I think we only know him for his gaffe at home to Donnie. ?

I've watched him closely since his antics at Ewood and I don't think he's great. Very suspect on high balls. I certainly wouldn't swap Raya for him.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

The Wagggot Q&A suggests we are looking at out of contract players -certainly initially. Fits.  Venkys seem happy to absorb wages but not fees. 

7 figures for Antonsson? Good grief.  Avoid.

Yeah let Leeds sort out their own dropped bollock,

Edited May 28, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[AAK]

58 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

You mean like Dack and Smallwood? Or Arma, who was plying his trade in the 4th division recently?

4th division, playing for who? Hes played for Coventry, rovers and Bolton all in the third tier. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, OnePhilT said:

My bad, assumed he'd played for Coventry in the 4th division.

Nah got his 20 goals under Mowbray in League 1

[Exiled in Toronto]

10 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

Hits
Bradley Dack
Amari'i Bell
Richard Smallwood
Paul Downing
Adam Armstrong
Harry Chapman

Misses
Dominic Samuel
Peter Whittingham
Paul Caddis
Ben Gladwin
Rekeem Harper
Sam Hart

Can't Decide
Jayson Leutwiler
Jack Payne
Marcus Antonsson
Joe Nuttall

Mowbray certainly brought in players who turned out to be quality for us, such as Dack, Smallwoord, and Arma, but it's still fair to say that for every one 'hit' there's one 'miss'. Still, that's better than some of our managers of times gone by! But 100% is a bit off the mark. You maybe only even need 50% of hits to make things a success.

But the hits massively outweigh the misses when one measures by contribution rather than headcount. Even without Samuel we’d have barely registered a point before Oct. One thing I like about Mowbray is he didn’t persist with the failures too long

[bluefred]

On 27/05/2018 at 08:09, mrssusan said:

Who's opinion are you spouting here exactly? 

Whilst it's far from certain the squad is good enough to hold its own it's also far from certain to say it's not.

for what it's worth I'd say it's a better squad than the one that went down 2 years ago.

Also you say you are basing it on the play offs which is like judging the premier league on Liverpool v Tottenham 

Troll

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

But the hits massively outweigh the misses when one measures by contribution rather than headcount. Even without Samuel we’d have barely registered a point before Oct. One thing I like about Mowbray is he didn’t persist with the failures too long

That's always going to be the case. The flops don't contribute much because they are flops. Whittingham, Gladwin and Caddiis were all bought in on good contracts with a view to having an impact in the first  team. They didn't.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's always going to be the case. The flops don't contribute much because they are flops. Whittingham, Gladwin and Caddiis were all bought in on good contracts with a view to having an impact in the first  team. They didn't.

What contracts are they on? I didn't see that info published 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

What contracts are they on? I didn't see that info published 

Caddis and Whittingham got two years , I don't know what Gladwin got but considering his contribution he did really well whatever it was.

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Caddis and Whittingham got two years , I don't know what Gladwin got but considering his contribution he did really well whatever it was.

Whittingham and Gladwin were injured a lot though, so they didn't really get a proper crack at things. I think Whittingham will come good, not sure about Gladwin. Caddis getting two years was strange alright 

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, Tormund said:

Osborn is a very good player. Can’t see him leaving Forest unless it’s a pretty good price. Would be surprised if we could afford him.

Surprised? Nobody knows the budget on here. Mowbray and his staff keep alot in house and rightly so

6 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

"Transfermarkt current value Osborn at £3 million and as he still has two years left on his contract, Stoke and Blackburn are likely to have to offer north of that valuation to secure his signature."

That would be a lot for us to spend on one player, and I doubt leaving Forest for the higher planes of Blackburn Rovers is going to appeal to him. Some of these article-writers are an insult to journalists.

Are Forest going places? Is Karanka the right type of manager for him? 

6 hours ago, Stuart said:

You are looking at the Championship through a League One lens.

Wrong again Stuart but hey ho. 

I watched alot of championship football Stuart and a couple outstanding teams and both went up. 

We have nothing to fear from most teams at this level. Boro, Derby, Villa, Sheff Wed all face cutbacks in terms of wages and transfer fees. 

2 hours ago, AAK said:

4th division, playing for who? Hes played for Coventry, rovers and Bolton all in the third tier. 

Wasnt Bolton in the championship when he played for them. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

40 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's always going to be the case. The flops don't contribute much because they are flops. Whittingham, Gladwin and Caddiis were all bought in on good contracts with a view to having an impact in the first  team. They didn't.

All managers sign players who for whatever reason don’t work out. Not all managers sign players who have the impact of Dack, signed on a longer contract.

[47er]

10 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

The Wagggot Q&A suggests we are looking at out of contract players -certainly initially. Fits.  Venkys seem happy to absorb wages but not fees. 

7 figures for Antonsson? Good grief.  Avoid.

limited funds available, has to be spread around?

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

We have nothing to fear from most teams at this level. Boro, Derby, Villa, Sheff Wed all face cutbacks in terms of wages and transfer fees. 

 

For once Chaddy I agree with you. There is nothing to fear in this league. I hope Mowbray takes that approach as typified by Wilder at Sheffield Utd and Harris at Millwall. We have just as much right to be in this league and to push for promotion from it than anyone. Just because Swansea City were in the Premier League and they'll be getting a fat cheque from Sky doesn't make them bigger or better than Blackburn Rovers.

I think people's expectations are being distorted by our season in League One. Lets remember that prior to the Coyle shambles we were a competitive mid-table side that most felt was underachieving. We need to invest as every club does but I'm not having it that we're some plucky underdog destined to struggle in some league full of bigger and richer clubs. Really that just isn't true.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, JHRover said:

For once Chaddy I agree with you. There is nothing to fear in this league. I hope Mowbray takes that approach as typified by Wilder at Sheffield Utd and Harris at Millwall. We have just as much right to be in this league and to push for promotion from it than anyone. Just because Swansea City were in the Premier League and they'll be getting a fat cheque from Sky doesn't make them bigger or better than Blackburn Rovers.

I think people's expectations are being distorted by our season in League One. Lets remember that prior to the Coyle shambles we were a competitive mid-table side that most felt was underachieving. We need to invest as every club does but I'm not having it that we're some plucky underdog destined to struggle in some league full of bigger and richer clubs. Really that just isn't true.

You think that with our current squad we are good enough for the Championship?

I too think that people’s expectations are being distorted by our season in League One but in the opposite way to you. It is going to be a lot harder this time out. The opposition are stronger but the impact on players will be harder too. Mulgrew, Graham and even Lenihan will have their fitness tested far more. We need to upgrade our better players and not be reliant on those three. If they were out, we simply don’t have the replacements. We have no strength in depth anywhere but midfield and even that isn’t Championship standard.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, JHRover said:

For once Chaddy I agree with you. There is nothing to fear in this league. I hope Mowbray takes that approach as typified by Wilder at Sheffield Utd and Harris at Millwall. We have just as much right to be in this league and to push for promotion from it than anyone. Just because Swansea City were in the Premier League and they'll be getting a fat cheque from Sky doesn't make them bigger or better than Blackburn Rovers.

I think people's expectations are being distorted by our season in League One. Lets remember that prior to the Coyle shambles we were a competitive mid-table side that most felt was underachieving. We need to invest as every club does but I'm not having it that we're some plucky underdog destined to struggle in some league full of bigger and richer clubs. Really that just isn't true.

You think that with our current squad we are good enough for the Championship?

I too think that people’s expectations are being distorted by our season in League One but in the opposite way to you. It is going to be a lot harder this time out. The opposition are stronger but the impact on players will be harder too. Mulgrew, Graham and even Lenihan will have their fitness tested far more. We need to upgrade our better players and not be reliant on those three. If they were out, we simply don’t have the replacements. We have no strength in depth anywhere but midfield and even that isn’t Championship standard.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

You think that with our current squad we are good enough for the Championship?

I too think that people’s expectations are being distorted by our season in League One but in the opposite way to you. It is going to be a lot harder this time out. The opposition are stronger but the impact on players will be harder too. Mulgrew, Graham and even Lenihan will have their fitness tested far more. We need to upgrade our better players and not be reliant on those three. If they were out, we simply don’t have the replacements. We have no strength in depth anywhere but midfield and even that isn’t Championship standard.

Possibly not, but that was why I said we'll need investment. The same however applies to a lot of clubs in the Championship. If they don't strengthen this summer or if they lose a key player or two they will expect to struggle. All the indications are that we will strengthen.

As it happens I believe this current squad (including loans) is better than the one that achieved 51 points last time round and went down on goal difference despite having Owen Coyle in the dugout for 7 months of the season. If nothing else the camaraderie, fitness and pride in the side are superior to what they were.

[Atko's Engine]

7 hours ago, JHRover said:

For once Chaddy I agree with you. There is nothing to fear in this league. I hope Mowbray takes that approach as typified by Wilder at Sheffield Utd and Harris at Millwall. We have just as much right to be in this league and to push for promotion from it than anyone. Just because Swansea City were in the Premier League and they'll be getting a fat cheque from Sky doesn't make them bigger or better than Blackburn Rovers.

I think people's expectations are being distorted by our season in League One. Lets remember that prior to the Coyle shambles we were a competitive mid-table side that most felt was underachieving. We need to invest as every club does but I'm not having it that we're some plucky underdog destined to struggle in some league full of bigger and richer clubs. Really that just isn't true.

I think that's right, though I really don't see us pushing for promotion this season and don't think any fan should expect it either. I get Stuart's point above in that we must strengthen in terms of the starting lineup and cover, and of course those with parachute payments are better placed than us before a ball is kicked.

But we had 1 very, very bad season that saw us relegated, but don't forget even that was only on GD with a v high points score that most other seasons (every season?) would've seen us survive relatively comfortably.  Most of us would  I think agree that the current squad is better than that one (if loanees are replaced like for like) and, crucially, more confident & united, so we ought to be relatively confident of consolidation.

We have a good, honest respected manager who is planning ahead, who can attract good players both permanent and on loan, and great facilities for players who want to improve to come here and do so. The atmosphere about the place is less caustic than it was 24 months ago, so our only main disadvantage in money.

Of course that's significant, but on average once a season recently (Cardiff, Bournemouth, Burnley) have achieved promotion from this division without spending huge wads. We have to believe there's no reason why we can't join them over the coming 2/3 seasons if we apply ourselves correctly, which we seem to finally be doing (touch wood).

[JBiz]

7 hours ago, JHRover said:

For once Chaddy I agree with you. There is nothing to fear in this league. I hope Mowbray takes that approach as typified by Wilder at Sheffield Utd and Harris at Millwall. We have just as much right to be in this league and to push for promotion from it than anyone. Just because Swansea City were in the Premier League and they'll be getting a fat cheque from Sky doesn't make them bigger or better than Blackburn Rovers.

I think people's expectations are being distorted by our season in League One. Lets remember that prior to the Coyle shambles we were a competitive mid-table side that most felt was underachieving. We need to invest as every club does but I'm not having it that we're some plucky underdog destined to struggle in some league full of bigger and richer clubs. Really that just isn't true.

Even with “Coyle’s” team, (that most would agree was worse than this lot) TM would’ve had us mid table by averaging his points in those first few months. Yes, it probably cost more and a few of the loanees had premier league experience - but this team has shown twice the spirit and effort.

We simply haven’t got the same ability to spend more on wages because the lack of turnover namely parachutes, however we no longer carry a burden of an over paid hangover - which many of those “big” teams will be suffering from. It’s not an excuse, it’s a fact. Much like when we had parachutes - we had an advantage but squandered it (deliberately..) negligently.

With some clever investments in key areas, I don’t see why any team in the division can be promoted - at the same time, it’s not too uncommon to see one of those expensive teams flopping at the bottom either.

Question for you JHR; do you expect/want the Rao family to invest the type of wages/transfer fees that Wolves/Fulham/Boro/Derby have recently? 

[JHRover]

Just now, Biz said:

Even with “Coyle’s” team, (that most would agree was worse than this lot) TM would’ve had us mid table by averaging his points in those first few months. Yes, it probably cost more and a few of the loanees had premier league experience - but this team has shown twice the spirit and effort.

We simply haven’t got the same ability to spend more on wages because the lack of turnover namely parachutes, however we no longer carry a burden of an over paid hangover - which many of those “big” teams will be suffering from. It’s not an excuse, it’s a fact. Much like when we had parachutes - we had an advantage but squandered it (deliberately..) negligently.

With some clever investments in key areas, I don’t see why any team in the division can be promoted - at the same time, it’s not too uncommon to see one of those expensive teams flopping at the bottom either.

Question for you JHR; do you expect/want the Rao family to invest the type of wages/transfer fees that Wolves/Fulham/Boro/Derby have recently? 

I want them to yes, but I don't think it will happen no.

This thing about the parachute payments is getting on my nerves a bit too. I keep hearing it from Mowbray and Waggott saying 'half' the division are receiving parachute cash which puts them on a different level to us. Is that really the case? Who will be getting parachute cash next season? Swansea, Stoke and WBA, though they will all have Premier League wages to sustain from that which will eat a large chunk of it up. I expect Stoke to be a force as they have acted decisively in getting an experienced manager with a decent track record but Swansea and WBA will be unknown entities under inexperienced managers. Villa and Middlesbrough spent obscene amounts in the last couple of seasons but surely that will have to stop with promotion being missed. Rumours of massive changes at Villa as they adjust to a 3rd season at this level.

Hull, Sunderland, Norwich all get parachute cash. Sunderland relegated, Hull nearly, Norwich a bottom half side.

Who else gets parachute money? QPR possibly though they have made massive cutbacks, not sure on any others?

So the 3 relegated clubs, Villa, Boro, Norwich, Hull - that's 7 clubs out of 24 and 2 of those spent all last season in the bottom half.

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

I want them to yes, but I don't think it will happen no.

 

I do see some reasoning behind the frustration at suggestion of half the teams have parachutes, it’s obviously more like 4/5 will have a serious advantage in turnover.

I agree that they won’t invest that much though, but I disagree with you on the basis that I wouldn’t want them to put our wage bill back up to 200%. I know you may say that’s not you “want” either but I’d personally stay in the scenario with them keeping losses to a minimum, the less we owe them, the easier we are to find a new owner, the more likely we are to keep the facilities/academy running.

The investments in youth/academy/scouting are a long term solution to returning to the premier league. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Villa have spent phenomenal money since going down and have nothing to show for it. It isn't all about spending money. You can't buy team spirit like we have. We will be hard to beat and never give up, just like this season. If Mowbray adds 3-4 players of real quality, no reason why we cant be top half of the table.