Adam Armstrong

[philipl]

Crazy to say this about the League's joint top scorer but he has to get his head sorted for the Norwich game after that weird show against Bristol City.

[windymiller7]

3 hours ago, philipl said:

Crazy to say this about the League's joint top scorer but he has to get his head sorted for the Norwich game after that weird show against Bristol City.

Agreed. Don't know what was going on in his head, but it was like he was trying to make the first episode of 'The Adam Armstrong Show' for Sky.

I hope a few of the lads had a word with him (usually works better than the gaffer having a go) after the game. It got to the point where you knew he was going to shoot every time he got the ball, there was no point anyone else even trying to get up the field in support. I'd have been fuming if I'd busted a gut to get into a good position on numerous occasions only to be ignored.

We all know that he likes to take on the odd shot from the edge of the box, which I'm happy with, as quite often it pays off, but Wednesday was on a different level. It went from the sublime to the ridiculous!

Come on Arma, you're better than that!

[philipl]

Johnson had a word with Arma during the game and he seemed to react by attempting to shoot on sight even more.

Ordinarily, he would beat the keeper at least once but his power and accuracy were totally awry.

Hope this isn't the start of a trend.

[JacknOry]

Just think he is determined to be top scorer in the division knowing what it could do for his career. I guess he feels he has to score every game just to keep up with/stay ahead of Toney. Problem is, as shown in the last game, it can be to a detriment to the team. He has always been a bit selfish, all good strikers are to some extent but this was other level shit.

 

[ben_the_beast]

Big improvement from Arma last night. Couple of times he was still a bit greedy but as a striker he needs an element of that in his game. But his pass to set up Elliott was spot on and in the right place to get the winner. 

He was quiet a lot of the night but there is no way we would have won the game without him on the pitch. 

Playing the pass for an assist will actually help him out in the long run too. Becomes less one dimensional and easy to defend against. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

He was better when he moved further out to the left imo. Involved in two key moments, but I just can't help but feel he's a little bit too much for himself. Even his celebrations are self indulgent, whereas others look for team mates. Developing a good relationship with Eliott. Maybe he wants to go to Liverpool with him  As long as he scores though, he will shut me up! 

Maybe he misses BB too. AA and BB. 

I would like to see Trybull, Travis and Dack behind those 3. 

[roversfan99]

You cannot argue with his goal record in 2020, his biggest run without a goal this calendar year is 3 (according to the commentators last night) which is incredible for any team, let alone a mid table one. And he is on 27 goals in 2020.

Perceptions of self involvement and greediness are just par for the course for a goalscorer and of course may lead to frustration at times but more often than not his single mindedness as a striker is what gets him his goals. His touch and pass for Elliott was also very good.

[Bigdoggsteel]

16 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You cannot argue with his goal record in 2020, his biggest run without a goal this calendar year is 3 (according to the commentators last night) which is incredible for any team, let alone a mid table one. And he is on 27 goals in 2020.

Perceptions of self involvement and greediness are just par for the course for a goalscorer and of course may lead to frustration at times but more often than not his single mindedness as a striker is what gets him his goals. His touch and pass for Elliott was also very good.

It's not "perception", it's glaringly obvious he was ridiculously greedy in certain games. He can still score goals, whilst also looking to get his teammates in, as was shown last night 

[DE.]

Arma's selfishness seems to have increased lately. He may be feeling the pressure of being top scorer and being expected to hit the back of the net in every match. It isn't healthy for us to have such a huge reliance on one player to score, so it would be worthwhile for TM and the coaching staff to work with Armstrong on his team game. Getting more players in the goal mix lessens the pressure on Armstrong and benefits the team long-term. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by DE.

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, DE. said:

Arma's selfishness seems to have increased lately. He may be feeling the pressure of being top scorer and being expected to hit the back of the net in every match. It isn't healthy for us to have such a huge reliance on one player to score, so it would be worthwhile for TM and the coaching staff to work with Armstrong on his team game. Getting more players in the goal mix lessens the pressure on Armstrong and benefits the team long-term. 

Is it pressure or just he wants to be top scorer? Like the pressure should be on the entire team to score. We should have way more goals, only for Armstrong's choice making, which I know is kind of crazy. 

I see a little bit I think that he trusts Elliot to pass it to, but not Gallagher. I can't really blame him for that. Gallagher tries god love him,but it's not his position and he brings little to the team from there. That's the reality. Fair play to him for keeping at it and getting the odd goal. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Is it pressure or just he wants to be top scorer?

I'm sure he does want to be top scorer as well, but if that was his sole motivation then I'd have expected this selfish streak to have been present throughout his time here. With that said he has never been prolific as far as assists are concerned. 6 last season and only 3 in the year before that. Definitely far more of a goal scorer than a creator of chances. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

46 minutes ago, DE. said:

I'm sure he does want to be top scorer as well, but if that was his sole motivation then I'd have expected this selfish streak to have been present throughout his time here. With that said he has never been prolific as far as assists are concerned. 6 last season and only 3 in the year before that. Definitely far more of a goal scorer than a creator of chances. 

It seems to have gotten worse the more he has scored. If I was top scorer I would have the table as the screensaver on my phone 🤣

[roversfan99]

Goal scorers tend to be quite selfish, it is in their nature and part of the reason why they score so many. Im sure we have all heard stories of strikers like Van Nistelrooy after a win in which he has not scored in a mood. 

Of course there are times when he should pass and warrants criticism for making the wrong choices eg v Bristol City but ultimately if you took that single mindedness out of his game he wouldnt score goals at the rate that he does.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Goal scorers tend to be quite selfish, it is in their nature and part of the reason why they score so many. Im sure we have all heard stories of strikers like Van Nistelrooy after a win in which he has not scored in a mood. 

Of course there are times when he should pass and warrants criticism for making the wrong choices eg v Bristol City but ultimately if you took that single mindedness out of his game he wouldnt score goals at the rate that he does.

 

Not as simple as that. He could still be scoring many. This season he hasn't scored a huge amount where he has done pretty much all the work, like he scored last year. Now it's tap ins and getting on the end of stuff. The problem is he seems too desperate to score the crackers again and it's those type of shots he is taking on,where he should be looking to pass. For example last night, for the last 3-4 games he would have shot in the position here he assisted Elliott. So hopefully now we will see more of this. If he starts doing it, it will make him a much better all-round player and his stock will just rise. 

As for Van Nistelrooy. One of the best strikers of the PL era. He was great at bringing others into it too. Probably helped that he was 6 foot 3 , strong and also highly mobile. 

[Dreams of 1995]

Ivan Toney isn't as selfish as Armstrong and he is getting goals.

[JacknOry]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It seems to have gotten worse the more he has scored. If I was top scorer I would have the table as the screensaver on my phone 🤣

Agree, he has never been in a position where finishing as the leagues top scorer was a possibility. He came flying out of the traps this season and has pretty much led the scoring charts all season up until his mini-drought. I think this has definitely increased his desire to score and therefore his selfishness. He knows what being the leagues top scorer could do for his reputation and therefore career. The pressure of keeping pace with Toney has meant he is taking on a lot more shots when he should be bringing others in.  

Thing is, that could actually go against him as it is already clear that he requires far more chances/shots on targets than most other strikers in with a chance of that top spot. Also, PL teams will want forwards with more to their game than just getting the ball and shooting on sight. He needs to find a balance - play for the team and you will still get your chances to score while also giving us a better chance of scoring and climbing the table. 

[Dreams of 1995]

1 minute ago, JacknOry said:

Agree, he has never been in a position where finishing as the leagues top scorer was a possibility. He came flying out of the traps this season and has pretty much led the scoring charts all season up until his mini-drought. I think this has definitely increased his desire to score and therefore his selfishness. He knows what being the leagues top scorer could do for his reputation and therefore career. The pressure of keeping pace with Toney has meant he is taking on a lot more shots when he should be bringing others in.  

Thing is, that could actually go against him as it is already clear that he requires far more chances/shots on targets than most other strikers in with a chance of that top spot. Also, PL teams will want forwards with more to their game than just getting the ball and shooting on sight. He needs to find a balance - play for the team and you will still get your chances to score while also giving us a better chance of scoring and climbing the table. 

Perfectly put man

His insistence on outside of the box shots has meant we have seen far too many chances wasted 

[roversfan99]

He isnt perfect, his decision making isnt always right, I do question whether he could do it at a higher level and he had hit a dry spell (of 3 games which is as bad as it gets in the last 12 months for him!) but I suspect we might only realise once he leaves how valuable a prolific striker is.

[JacknOry]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He isnt perfect, his decision making isnt always right, I do question whether he could do it at a higher level and he had hit a dry spell (of 3 games which is as bad as it gets in the last 12 months for him!) but I suspect we might only realise once he leaves how valuable a prolific striker is.

Whether he could or not - he will be aiming to get there to have a go. He has had a sensational year, there is no doubt about that but at the end of last season, I feel he was not as selfish as he is right now. He wasnt leading the charts then but was (in my opinion) playing more for the team while still having a bit of a selfish streak as strikers need. Fast-forward to this season and since starting on fire, he has become (again, in my opinion) a lot greedier. 

I just hope they drill it into him that if he looks up once in a while like he did for Elliotts goal, it is better for the team as a whole. Besides, assists are good stats to have too 

[Dreams of 1995]

You can be involved in 40 goals a season as a striker or be involved in 25, all of which you scored. I know which one I'd rather be attributed to.

Bobby Firminio isn't prolific but is involved in a lot of Liverpools goals. A striker does have to be selfish but he also needs to balance the requirements of the team. There were a couple of times yesterday when he could have recycled possession but instead he shot and we gave the ball back to them, along with a 1 minute delay whilst the keeper fetched the ball.

We won't talk about the Bristol City game and put that down to a bad day at the office

[Bigdoggsteel]

We need a prolific striker to get promoted and he is the only one who can fill that role, so best of luck to him. 

Bobby Firminho a good example of a selfless striker. Liverpool have the luxury that they don't overly rely on him for goals though 

[LeftWinger]

And then you get the rare breed like Shearer who scores and creates. He was one of the best crossers of the ball I've seen - it was a shame he couldn't get on the end of some of his own crosses sometimes.

1994/95

34 league goals (9 goals more than 2nd top scorer Robbie Fowler)

13 league assists (Only Le Tissier and Anderton got more)

Sutton chipped in with 15 goals and 10 assists as well.

Stats taken from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–95_FA_Premier_League

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

And then you get the rare breed like Shearer who scores and creates. He was one of the best crossers of the ball I've seen - it was a shame he couldn't get on the end of some of his own crosses sometimes.

1994/95

34 league goals (9 goals more than 2nd top scorer Robbie Fowler)

13 league assists (Only Le Tissier and Anderton got more)

Sutton chipped in with 15 goals and 10 assists as well.

Stats taken from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–95_FA_Premier_League

Phenomenal player

[roversfan99]

Goals are the most important thing to a striker, Firmino has received plenty of criticism and questioning over whether he should still play due to his shortage of goals. Our striker is one of if not the only player that we can be sure is top 6 quality, you cant argue with his goalscoring rate. It has happened to Rhodes and Dack in the past, consistent goalscoring becomes under appreciated after a while.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Goals are the most important thing to a striker, Firmino has received plenty of criticism and questioning over whether he should still play due to his shortage of goals. Our striker is one of if not the only player that we can be sure is top 6 quality, you cant argue with his goalscoring rate. It has happened to Rhodes and Dack in the past, consistent goalscoring becomes under appreciated after a while.

Nobody under appreciates his goals. People just think he can be an even better player if he picks the right pass instead of shooting at certain key points.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel