Transfer Window - Success or Failure

[chaddyrovers]

great window it was in terms of signings and new contracts for key players. 

I would like a keeper, centre back in but we cant everything. 

 

[Butty]

New signings:
• Reed
• Rothwell
• Rodwell
• Brereton
• Davenport
• Palmer
• Armstrong
• Candlin

Key new deals:
• Dack
• Lenihan
• Williams
• Smallwood
• Graham
• Conway
• Nuttall

Full time departures:
• Caddis
• Whittingham

™ Revolution. #Rovers                           Seen this on Twitter. Wouldn't call Smallwood Conway or Nuttall "key new deals" but we've done well this window. This is the most optimistic we've all been in 8 years. That's a success in itself. TM is the messiah. 

[bluebruce]

Don't remember Nuttall getting a new deal. He got an improved deal late last year I think, after his initial goalscoring showings.

[Blue blood]

Tough one to rate really without the benefit of hindsight. 

One injury to either of our centre backs, or possibly our right back, or alternatively teams defend very narrowly against us exploiting our lack of width in attack costing us points and we'll be focusing on the areas we didn't strengthen. Having no natural wingers, a suspect second keeper (although he got rave reviews at his last place before us, I recall) and Nuttall and Travis being squad players rather than first team players in league 1, all seem like missed opportunities to me. Likewise, with Samuel's injury, we're still not much further forward in terms of striker numbers and options, and should Graham get injured the pressure on Bereton becomes immense. There's also the first real possibility under TM for a transfer to really go south in the bad apple of Rodwell. The potential to have a better window is clearly there. 

That said we've undoubtedly a better squad than we had last season. Not just as they've gone, but even had they stayed the likes of Whittingham and Caddis would be a lot further from the first team. Messers Rothwell and Reid, clearly improvements. I'd also like to think Antonsson had he been our player would get nowhere near this first 11, ahead of Rothwell, and even Palmer. We've more creativity in the squad, a variety of tactical options in centre mid, and have signed some young players - Bereton and Rothwell - with a lot of potential. Having Armstrong back offering pace in a number of positions is also a highly valuable asset. In fact other than our big striker signing, all the players (who've played) already look value for money and solid investments. There's also the potential for a masterstroke in Rodwell, although I doubt it, but if he can rediscover some of his early talent and attitude, Rovers will have a heck of a player. It's a gamble, but if it comes off, it comes off big time. 

So having externally processed to a message board I'd say yes, overall the window was good. We're better than we were, but there is still work to do and gaps. Not just wishful thinking, every little thing covered gaps, but serious gaps in the squad. Apart from those worries, however, the squad does look a lot stronger and better. So overall because there are significant improvements, coupled with not losing anyone key I think it can only be called a good window. Was it good enough, time, and potential injuries, will be the judge of that, but undoubtedly like most of TM's reign it's been positively solid if not spectacular. Against a backdrop of Venkys chaos, could we have realistically asked for more? 

One last thing of note - last year's transfer deadline day, (the summer one) I was pleased that TM addressed the 3 key weaknesses in the squad - lb, cb and cm. Of those only Downing turned out to be a good piece of business, with Hart and Harper flopping. It's worth noting that covering positions, isn't always the same as getting in good enough quality. Perhaps that has influenced TM this time, where he has gone for the quality/standard he wants, perhaps over covering all bases. 

[tomphil]

Success - Squad is stronger than it was and that is the main aim of a transfer window.

Not the road I would've gone down with some of the incomings and money spent but that's the managers call it's on his head. That said the one's retained and let go outweigh any angst at any incomings or lack of them.

[philipl]

Go back to when the windows opened and what expectations and fears were then.

This has wildly and dramatically exceeded most hopes and all expectations. No fears were realised either.

 

[JBiz]

Just my take on our squad depth based on our most used formation with Tony. Perhaps missed a few up and coming youth players who deserve to be involved.

 

GK - Decent (Always 1)

Raya - deserves No1

Leutwiler - Able deputy

Fisher (just signed a 3 year deal)

CB - (Decent) (2 in formation, rarely 3)

Mulgrew - Captain

Lenihan - Worthy second

Downing - able backup 

Rodwell - could go either way

Williams - definitley in a 3, suspect second (5th choice)

Grayson/Platt - 6th/7th

Full backs; Decent (always 2)

Nyambe - earned first choice

Bell - done well with his chance

Williams - strong backup

Bennett - last season RB for Nyambe injury

Travis - played RB for u23s

Reed - played RB for Norwich

Defensive midfield- Very strong (generally 2 sometimes 1)

Smallwood - battler

Evans - energy 

Bennett - not natural but immense effort 

Rothwell - looks a find

Reed - could be better than the above

Travis, Rodwell, 6th and 7th choices.

Attacking midfield/wingers - So So (Generally 4)

Dack - worldie

Palmer - talented

Bennett - workrate outweighs sometimes poor final ball

Conway - aging but effort and set pieces

Armstrong - more suited to the striker role for me.

Rothwell - potentially central attacking mid but more useful deeper for me

Brererton - has played out wide forward

Samuel - injured 

Striker role - decent (always 1)

Graham - cultured

Armstrong - pace and finishing

Nuttal - still Raw

Samuel - injured

Brererton - unknown yet.

The conclusion I come to is that we are in much better position than when we started the summer. The reason for that hinges on 3/4 key signings in midfield and attack. We could be much stronger at attacking midfield too - however these positions are the hardest to fill. One flying winger off a 10/10 summer window.

If I had a concern it would be Centreback, but I have this feeling we are going to rebuild Jack Rodwell’s career as long term replacement for Mulgrew. I know some will be stunned by that, but you don’t simply fluke to the kind of career he had at 23. Yes, it’s gone pear shaped for him and of course there are question marks - but just look at how he changes the summers business if he comes in during a Centreback injury crisis and plays superbly!

If he comes in and flops - over to you Downing/Platt/Grayson and Rodwell drops out of existence next summer. It’s win/win - such a refreshing alternative to the Etuhu/Murphy 35k x 3 year conundrum!

Edited September 1, 2018 by Biz

[SBlue]

12 hours ago, callumrovers said:

*didn't realise you posed that comment on the 12th August? Are you still in the same mindset of it being a failure?

That was one of the tamer reactions on the 9th.

 

 

 

Good window.

Fantastic even.

Onwards and upwards.

Edited September 1, 2018 by S8 & Blue

[47er]

Way better than I expected. Sad we missed out on Chapman, we will need something different at times from what we have.

Vulnerable to injury/suspension at centre-back.

Hope Raya can play every game.

So some reservations but squad now good enough to finish top half and chance of play-offs.

Dramatic turn-around since Mowbray arrived.

[rigger]

Time/Results will tell, If we finish,

top half - good.

relegated - bad.

in-between - average 

[Stuart]

@Biz good post until you chucked that daft picture in at the end.

Largely agree, plus some thoughts:

GK - we are lucky to have Raya being ever present because Leutweiler is not adequate cover. He was signed for one reason and one reason only. A gamble that paid off last season.

CB - we remain short here imv. Jack Rodwell is huge gamble. The noises Mowbray made when he signed were not about him being a wayward sheep to be brought back into the fold but about it being a cheap, low risk deal. Not very positive. It’s one that might work but kind of ‘no great shakes if it doesn’t’. I actually hope you are right because that would be a superb result. It would also be a testament to Mowbray’s patience and man-management skills. Rodwell will need to learn some humility though and recognise the chance he has been given at a club he would almost certainly have laughed about joining a few years ago. His prioritising of money ahead of being part of a team does’t paint him in a good light. He was the only player in Sunderland’s squad without a relegation clause. If we do rebuild his career then it will be a very happy accident. Humble he ain’t.

The other thing you reminded me of is that Lewis Travis didn’t go out on loan. That is also a great sign. He really wants to continue to break into the first team despite the competition. He has the tools and would be Bennett’s natural replacement. Both of whom could be looked at as our closest versions of Robbie Savage.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

but I have this feeling we are going to rebuild Jack Rodwell’s career as long term replacement for Mulgrew. I know some will be stunned by that, but you don’t simply fluke to the kind of career he had at 23.

I'd agree that's exactly what Mowbray see's for Rodwell in the future. Mowbray likes a footballing CB and Rodwell is probably that.

Disagree on your earlier point about Downing being 'able back-up'. I'd be terrified if we lost Lenihan and had a CB pairing of Mulgrew and Downing for any length of time. 

And Bennett's final ball has accounted for 2 winning goals. Palmers have accounted for nowt. Think on?

[Doaksie]

@Biz Detailed and thorough analysis. I have to say I share a lot of the same sentiments, including the hope for Rodwell.

The squad analysis read like a quick synopsis of the runners and riders of a Grand National! 

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I'd agree that's exactly what Mowbray see's for Rodwell in the future. Mowbray likes a footballing CB and Rodwell is probably that.

Disagree on your earlier point about Downing being 'able back-up'. I'd be terrified if we lost Lenihan and had a CB pairing of Mulgrew and Downing for any length of time. 

And Bennett's final ball has accounted for 2 winning goals. Palmers have accounted for nowt. Think on?

I think that’s often sheer persistence, I agree that Bennett should be in the team because of what he brings but I don’t think final third efforts - shots, crosses and/or beating a man is his strong point personally.

Fantastically versatile player though. Him and Rothwell allow us to start 4231 with two DMs, then hook either Smallwood/Evans if we need to chuck another attacker in.

Ive also completely missed Davenport - who knows what his impact this season might be? Another signing for the future.

[JacknOry]

4 hours ago, Biz said:

Just my take on our squad depth based on our most used formation with Tony. Perhaps missed a few up and coming youth players who deserve to be involved.

 

GK - Decent (Always 1)

Raya - deserves No1

Leutwiler - Able deputy

Fisher (just signed a 3 year deal)

CB - (Decent) (2 in formation, rarely 3)

Mulgrew - Captain

Lenihan - Worthy second

Downing - able backup 

Rodwell - could go either way

Williams - definitley in a 3, suspect second (5th choice)

Grayson/Platt - 6th/7th

Full backs; Decent (always 2)

Nyambe - earned first choice

Bell - done well with his chance

Williams - strong backup

Bennett - last season RB for Nyambe injury

Travis - played RB for u23s

Reed - played RB for Norwich

Defensive midfield- Very strong (generally 2 sometimes 1)

Smallwood - battler

Evans - energy 

Bennett - not natural but immense effort 

Rothwell - looks a find

Reed - could be better than the above

Travis, Rodwell, 6th and 7th choices.

Attacking midfield/wingers - So So (Generally 4)

Dack - worldie

Palmer - talented

Bennett - workrate outweighs sometimes poor final ball

Conway - aging but effort and set pieces

Armstrong - more suited to the striker role for me.

Rothwell - potentially central attacking mid but more useful deeper for me

Brererton - has played out wide forward

Samuel - injured 

Striker role - decent (always 1)

Graham - cultured

Armstrong - pace and finishing

Nuttal - still Raw

Samuel - injured

Brererton - unknown yet.

The conclusion I come to is that we are in much better position than when we started the summer. The reason for that hinges on 3/4 key signings in midfield and attack. We could be much stronger at attacking midfield too - however these positions are the hardest to fill. One flying winger off a 10/10 summer window.

If I had a concern it would be Centreback, but I have this feeling we are going to rebuild Jack Rodwell’s career as long term replacement for Mulgrew. I know some will be stunned by that, but you don’t simply fluke to the kind of career he had at 23. Yes, it’s gone pear shaped for him and of course there are question marks - but just look at how he changes the summers business if he comes in during a Centreback injury crisis and plays superbly!

If he comes in and flops - over to you Downing/Platt/Grayson and Rodwell drops out of existence next summer. It’s win/win - such a refreshing alternative to the Etuhu/Murphy 35k x 3 year conundrum!

Missed out Davenport too.

[OJRovers]

5 hours ago, Biz said:

Just my take on our squad depth based on our most used formation with Tony. Perhaps missed a few up and coming youth players who deserve to be involved.

 

GK - Decent (Always 1)

Raya - deserves No1

Leutwiler - Able deputy

Fisher (just signed a 3 year deal)

CB - (Decent) (2 in formation, rarely 3)

Mulgrew - Captain

Lenihan - Worthy second

Downing - able backup 

Rodwell - could go either way

Williams - definitley in a 3, suspect second (5th choice)

Grayson/Platt - 6th/7th

Full backs; Decent (always 2)

Nyambe - earned first choice

Bell - done well with his chance

Williams - strong backup

Bennett - last season RB for Nyambe injury

Travis - played RB for u23s

Reed - played RB for Norwich

Defensive midfield- Very strong (generally 2 sometimes 1)

Smallwood - battler

Evans - energy 

Bennett - not natural but immense effort 

Rothwell - looks a find

Reed - could be better than the above

Travis, Rodwell, 6th and 7th choices.

Attacking midfield/wingers - So So (Generally 4)

Dack - worldie

Palmer - talented

Bennett - workrate outweighs sometimes poor final ball

Conway - aging but effort and set pieces

Armstrong - more suited to the striker role for me.

Rothwell - potentially central attacking mid but more useful deeper for me

Brererton - has played out wide forward

Samuel - injured 

Striker role - decent (always 1)

Graham - cultured

Armstrong - pace and finishing

Nuttal - still Raw

Samuel - injured

Brererton - unknown yet.

The conclusion I come to is that we are in much better position than when we started the summer. The reason for that hinges on 3/4 key signings in midfield and attack. We could be much stronger at attacking midfield too - however these positions are the hardest to fill. One flying winger off a 10/10 summer window.

If I had a concern it would be Centreback, but I have this feeling we are going to rebuild Jack Rodwell’s career as long term replacement for Mulgrew. I know some will be stunned by that, but you don’t simply fluke to the kind of career he had at 23. Yes, it’s gone pear shaped for him and of course there are question marks - but just look at how he changes the summers business if he comes in during a Centreback injury crisis and plays superbly!

If he comes in and flops - over to you Downing/Platt/Grayson and Rodwell drops out of existence next summer. It’s win/win - such a refreshing alternative to the Etuhu/Murphy 35k x 3 year conundrum!

The worry is that the "unknown yet" player cost us £7 million...

 

 

[JBiz]

Just now, OJRovers said:

The worry is that the "unknown yet" player cost us £7 million...

 

 

Quite a luxurious worry though eh 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

24 minutes ago, Biz said:

Quite a luxurious worry though eh 

Not really, if this lad doesn't look the part I can't see us getting another £ 7 million to spend any time soon.  It could also have repercussions regarding our ability to hold on to Bradley Dack.

[bluebruce]

It's actually interesting, the huge changes of opinion on the window now the loan window has gone. Since the first deadline passed, we have added:

Jack Rodwell (huge question marks)

Harrison Reed (rated, but in a position we were already well stocked, albeit also extra cover at RB)

Ben Brereton (very exciting, but unproven)

Somehow this has pushed us from a mix of opinions (some thought it was decent already, some thought it was a bit poor and and some thought it was a disaster) to almost universal approval (albeit with some a bit concerned about depth for a couple positions).

When you look at these three signings in isolation, I do wonder how some opinions have jumped so markedly. I can't help but think the emphatic Lincoln result with a largely second string and the sheer price of the Brereton deal have made everyone feel more confident.

With Brereton, if we had bought the exact same player, with the same career so far, for 1 million, I'm sure there would be less euphoria.

All that said, I do think it was a good window, as I said above. But I thought it was a fairly steady one before the loan window, and would be good as long as we got a reasonable strike option.

Edit - and I'm not criticising anyone who has jumped from doom and gloom to ecstasy btw, just think it is interesting, psychologically speaking.

Edited September 1, 2018 by bluebruce

[roversfan99]

27 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

It's actually interesting, the huge changes of opinion on the window now the loan window has gone. Since the first deadline passed, we have added:

Jack Rodwell (huge question marks)

Harrison Reed (rated, but in a position we were already well stocked, albeit also extra cover at RB)

Ben Brereton (very exciting, but unproven)

Somehow this has pushed us from a mix of opinions (some thought it was decent already, some thought it was a bit poor and and some thought it was a disaster) to almost universal approval (albeit with some a bit concerned about depth for a couple positions).

When you look at these three signings in isolation, I do wonder how some opinions have jumped so markedly. I can't help but think the emphatic Lincoln result with a largely second string and the sheer price of the Brereton deal have made everyone feel more confident.

With Brereton, if we had bought the exact same player, with the same career so far, for 1 million, I'm sure there would be less euphoria.

All that said, I do think it was a good window, as I said above. But I thought it was a fairly steady one before the loan window, and would be good as long as we got a reasonable strike option.

Edit - and I'm not criticising anyone who has jumped from doom and gloom to ecstasy btw, just think it is interesting, psychologically speaking.

A lot is based on the signing of Brereton in my opinion, hes the key for the swing in opinions, maybe its the price tag and the potential of the player, but it has to be assumed that he will play a big role, and give us a new dimension in our attacking options. I suppose from the closing of the window, in essence that he has just replaced the injured Samuel, but I personally didnt see him as a player who could contribute anything at this level anyway. If Brereton isnt as good as Samuel then we really are up against it!

I think there was also a feeling that regarding our first 4 signings, Davenport was one for the future and in terms of our attacking players, Palmer was only a loan who has already got 3 goals in the last couple of weeks, Armstrong was a snip but he was here last season so it doesnt feel like having a new player, and Rothwell has perhaps shown in the last couple of weeks since the window that he is ready to have more of an impact than anyone could have reasonably predicted.

I am very happy with the signing of Reed, although I dont forsee Rodwell making a big impact.

You mention the Lincoln game (who themselves made 7 changes) but im not sure people have or should read too much into that. Raya, Nyambe, Bell and Graham are regulars. Caddis has since left. Nuttall and Downing both scored against a changed League 2 side, but it doesnt answer big questions about their abilities not being to Championship standard. Travis has plenty of potential but may struggle for game time. Conway youd think will barely play and Grayson is only a kid.

I still think it was an imperfect window, in that although a lot of really good potential work has been done, there are a couple of gaps were we could become a bit thin on the ground in 2 or 3 positions, and I get the feeling that anyone proclaiming that it was perfect is overlooking these obvious gaps.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Not really, if this lad doesn't look the part I can't see us getting another £ 7 million to spend any time soon.  It could also have repercussions regarding our ability to hold on to Bradley Dack.

Why not? I would’ve assumed 10m was out of our budget this summer yet we’ve probably spent that in fees and wages. He’s a 19 year old striker where average proven players of the same league cost more.

It only impacts the Dack scenario if you think you know how the club finances run. Personally I don’t assume the same things, that Brereton is a boom or bust deal. I prefer to think or believe that the scenario is changeable! 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Why not? I would’ve assumed 10m was out of our budget this summer yet we’ve probably spent that in fees and wages. He’s a 19 year old striker where average proven players of the same league cost more.

It only impacts the Dack scenario if you think you know how the club finances run. Personally I don’t assume the same things, that Brereton is a boom or bust deal. I prefer to think or believe that the scenario is changeable! 

I've long since ceased guessing how the club's finances are run. Does anybody know ? My thinking is that Mowbray landed on a big ladder regarding Dack and his standing with the Chokers. Turning £750k to £15 million probably looks like spinning straw into gold to them. They're probably thinking he can turn £7 million into a lot more now. If the lad flops they'll possibly be reconsidering  having another punt. Maybe they'll look into cashing in Dack's chips.

All this is speculation of course but when the owners are so mercurial anything can happen.

[JBiz]

14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've long since ceased guessing how the club's finances are run. Does anybody know ? My thinking is that Mowbray landed on a big ladder regarding Dack and his standing with the Chokers. Turning £750k to £15 million probably looks like spinning straw into gold to them. They're probably thinking he can turn £7 million into a lot more now. If the lad flops they'll possibly be reconsidering  having another punt. Maybe they'll look into cashing in Dack's chips.

All this is speculation of course but when the owners are so mercurial anything can happen.

For me Dack keeps up his form we’d be silly to accept less than 20m after Maddison to Leicester. 

As for the changeable suggestion, if you think (like me) they’ve accepted some advice recently, they’d surely also know any sale of a key player at this level from this point on, probably makes the golden premier league money pot less likely. That said, a stupid bid might be “unrefusable”. Even 25m is small fry for Dack if we get 3/4 attackers performing consistently and a solid organised team grinding results out in the championship, when you consider 100m+ comes in sponsorship alone for that promotion.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Biz

[47er]

9 hours ago, bluebruce said:

It's actually interesting, the huge changes of opinion on the window now the loan window has gone. Since the first deadline passed, we have added:

Jack Rodwell (huge question marks)

Harrison Reed (rated, but in a position we were already well stocked, albeit also extra cover at RB)

Ben Brereton (very exciting, but unproven)

Somehow this has pushed us from a mix of opinions (some thought it was decent already, some thought it was a bit poor and and some thought it was a disaster) to almost universal approval (albeit with some a bit concerned about depth for a couple positions).

When you look at these three signings in isolation, I do wonder how some opinions have jumped so markedly. I can't help but think the emphatic Lincoln result with a largely second string and the sheer price of the Brereton deal have made everyone feel more confident.

With Brereton, if we had bought the exact same player, with the same career so far, for 1 million, I'm sure there would be less euphoria.

All that said, I do think it was a good window, as I said above. But I thought it was a fairly steady one before the loan window, and would be good as long as we got a reasonable strike option.

Edit - and I'm not criticising anyone who has jumped from doom and gloom to ecstasy btw, just think it is interesting, psychologically speaking.

I guess psychologically speaking, the window is over so any anxiety has disappeared.

Whatever we think of the window we can't change it now so, in true British style, there's nothing left to do but make the best of it and carry on.

[roversfan99]

Would people think considering the free agent market for reinforcements, baring in mind that Mowbray apparently tried to get bodies in yesterday and didnt manage it, at least to get players in for a week over the international break to have a look, to be something Mowbray could consider?

Nedum Onouha could be someone who could, fitness permitting, provide experienced cover for Mulgrew in Lenihan.

James Collins, Gareth McAuley and Russell Martin are also all free agents, although there would be question marks about whether the first would be realistic, and whether the latter 2 would be physically capable anymore to provide an upgrade on Downing remains to be seen.

Out wide, Bakary Sako would be a very good addition, he apparently went back to Palace who were considering re-signing him if they could get rid of a couple of players according to Hodgson, one of whom seemed to be Puncheon who ended up staying at the club. Whether he would be prepared to take a step down again remains to be seen.