Transfer Window - Success or Failure

[Blue blood]

50 minutes ago, JHRover said:

So essentially:

OUT - Antonsson, Payne, Chapman

IN - Rothwell, Davenport, Palmer

Underwhelming is the least of it.

Probably hinges on whether Palmer turns out to be as good as people say he is.

 

This in and of itself is quite positive. Antonsson was really poor and just from where we got Palmer and Davenport from - not that that's a great indicator admittedly - they could potentially be better loans.

Also we've not lost any good players. Remember losing our 2 key centre backs by September last time in the championship? That made a huge difference to our already weakened team. This perhaps wouldn't be a big deal at many other clubs but at our club it's probably much more of a big deal given our history/owners.

The problem for us is 3 fold this window.

1 we've not improved the first 11 at all. That's key, especially in areas that look a bit thin.

2 we've added little championship experience. Again this can be huge in this division.

3 we've not built for the future and have missed a massive opportunity to. What makes the latter so bad in my view is Graham and Mulgrew are getting on and will need replacing sooner rather than later. We'll probably only get another season out of both as top level players. That means the following summer we'd need 2 top signings to stay at the same level before we even start thinking of improving or replacing others who can't quite cut it at this level. A couple of quality improvements elsewhere would ease our summer shopping list next year, protect the strength of the team and of course give us more chance of doing well this season.

4/10 for me.

[Beanie01289]

21 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Edwards and Harrison looked impressive against us I agree but Nolan had a poor game at Ewood and if Nsiala played that day then it appears he'll get mugged every game in the Championship.

I agree that some players could step up but rebuilding a championship team with only league one players could  result in problems at Ipswich . 

If we are arguing you could say that Davenport played well at a higher level than Nolan ever has whilst he is 19 and Nolan is 26.

[Oldgregg86]

Imo very poor window. 

Firstly sorting the contracts out was good business. I agree with rev regarding wharton should have been retained for our bench.

No players where shipped out. To improve and build that needs to happen. Far to many players are not good enough. Spaces and wages need freeing up and overall quality needs improving.

The players we have signed are not walk into the first team improvements which is what we need to compete at this level. 

Glad Armstrong signed can not for the life of me figure out why Chapman hasn't

I haven't been to Peterborough or shrewsbury so can tick them off when we get relegated .

And let me be the first to say in Tony I trust

 

[OJRovers]

Could have been worse: Dack/Lennihan are still here.

The main positive is Armstrong.

Apart from that pretty uninspiring and unless we get very lucky with loans I think we’re going to be bottom half also rans.

[Oldgregg86]

I fully expect the loan window to be equally uninspiring

[Bepeja43]

I suppose there is the fact we no longer pay players handsomely.. Maybe we don't have the pull we once had?

[Beanie01289]

Just now, Bepeja43 said:

I suppose there is the fact we no longer pay players handsomely.. Maybe we don't have the pull we once had?

What or who are you talking about? 

[JHRover]

19 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

This in and of itself is quite positive. Antonsson was really poor and just from where we got Palmer and Davenport from - not that that's a great indicator admittedly - they could potentially be better loans.

Also we've not lost any good players. Remember losing our 2 key centre backs by September last time in the championship? That made a huge difference to our already weakened team. This perhaps wouldn't be a big deal at many other clubs but at our club it's probably much more of a big deal given our history/owners.

The problem for us is 3 fold this window.

1 we've not improved the first 11 at all. That's key, especially in areas that look a bit thin.

2 we've added little championship experience. Again this can be huge in this division.

3 we've not built for the future and have missed a massive opportunity to. What makes the latter so bad in my view is Graham and Mulgrew are getting on and will need replacing sooner rather than later. We'll probably only get another season out of both as top level players. That means the following summer we'd need 2 top signings to stay at the same level before we even start thinking of improving or replacing others who can't quite cut it at this level. A couple of quality improvements elsewhere would ease our summer shopping list next year, protect the strength of the team and of course give us more chance of doing well this season.

4/10 for me.

Well as you say Mulgrew is likely to depart as he's out of contract, as will Graham, Conway and Evans. Palmer off on loan expiry. Downing, Caddis, Gladwin, Hart, Nuttall, Whittingham all out of contract also. So another massive overhaul coming up when really we should have been adding key players in each position on long term deals.

[Bepeja43]

13 minutes ago, Beanie01289 said:

What or who are you talking about? 

Generally.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm pleased with the signings he made. Armstrong at 1.75 million pounds with adds ons rising to 3 mil is a bargain and steal. Palmer is good loan signing and Davenport should be very good signing. 

Would I like another striker, winger and centre back? of course but we could do that during the loan window. 

I totally agree Neal, the lack of faith in Mowbray is very sadly and very pathetic to see. And this love in for Ipswich and Hurst I just don't get at all. Only Edwards I would have taken. 

Here is a list of Championship transfers

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2

You're becoming a parody of yourself, you dont listen to what anyone says, and your sole argument is to stop being negative and have faith, which is not constructive.

People are judging him on an individual aspect, his performance in the transfer market. He had the money, he had the lists, the targets, and he failed to address various key positions.

The reason that I presume people are praising Hurst because he had targets in mind, for various positions, on a budget, and got them all in, regardless of whether you rate them. Mowbray didnt do this.

If Mowbray picks a strange team, or makes bad subs on Saturday and we lose points because of it, I'll criticise. You wont. Doesn't mean I will have lost faith in him. If Mowbray does well with his team and subs and we win, I'll praise him, as you will.

If Dack misses an open net, or Mulgrew scores an own goal, they will get criticised. Doesnt mean people have a pathetic lack of faith in them.

(And you are clearly lying, you said for months you wanted Jon Nolan here but thats beside the point)

How many people have said they have lost faith in Mowbray, or that he should go? No one.

I dont know why I have bothered to type this out because youll read it, ignore it and tell me to get behind him, or to have faith, or to stop being negative.

You'd get a lot more respect and people would find conversation with you a lot easier if you followed up on your points. Your posts are so one sided. You wanted a striker, a centre back, and a winger. Mowbray failed to get them despite having targets and lists. Yet for some reason, you refuse to accept that its disappointing that we didnt get them.

[chaddyrovers]

52 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

In reality though you won't get anyone. Just like you didn't get any of the 3 permanent deals that you thought we were going to get this week.

 

Well lets just get give the hell up and not even try to sign players. Tell you what lets just give up and forefit every game and go back to league 1. 

I cant be bothered with negative defeatist attitude anymore. 

38 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

This in and of itself is quite positive. Antonsson was really poor and just from where we got Palmer and Davenport from - not that that's a great indicator admittedly - 

Davenport is a permanent signing. Signed a 4 year contract. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Neal said:

I'm not saying he's not to be critised, everyone is worthy of criticism, there just seems to be a bit of a lack of faith that he's trying to make the right decisions in the transfer market. Or perhaps its a lack of foresight to understand what he's tried to do... He's waited for clubs like Forest to make their signings who now have bloated squads and might need to cut their cloth accordingly... Earlier in the transfer window when they're less desperate they may have demanded much more for a player like Brereton. We have a limited budget, he's tried to use it cleverly in a desperate part of the window... It's not come off, naturally it's dissapointing but it's not like we're in a position where this is our side till December. I still think we'll be satisfied come the end of August. 

No one doubts that he is TRYING to make the right decisions. Its just, regarding the window, hes not made the right decisions, or if he has, hes failed to act successfully on those right decisions.

Everyone trusts him, that hes doing his best, hes working hard, but hes ultimately failed to get not only what we wanted and could see we needed as supporters, but im sure he will be disappointing himself.

I get that theres reasons why deals get delayed, there can be a domino effect, but he kept saying he had lists of various players he wanted. You mention Brereton but if that was a player we had in mind, surely a time crops up before the last day, precisely the last hour, before you spring it on the player even if the bid is accepted to move to a new team, that you try and force the issue sooner or move elsewhere, you make the decision. Take Bauer for example as well, he was clearly our number 1 target at centre back, but Mowbray said he had moved on, his unavailability was clear a while back, so surely get the wheels in motion for another deal to get over the line. And im not saying panic buy any old crap, but if there are names on a list, surely they are all players he feel would improve us or they wouldnt be on the list in the first place.

Regarding being satisfied at the end of August, I hope you are right. And I agree that its not the end of the world, I still think wed survive but it wouldnt take much more to allow us to be more fanciful of a much higher finish. 

[Ricky]

Chaddy, you’re a joke! You always have been but you’ve got even worse.

You were clear on how many players you expected us to bring in, we haven’t and now you have to try to put a spin on it and say you’re happy. How can you be happy when the areas you expected covered haven’t been.

I can see why you get so much stick.

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well lets just get give the hell up and not even try to sign players. Tell you what lets just give up and forefit every game and go back to league 1. 

I cant be bothered with negative defeatist attitude anymore. 

Davenport is a permanent signing. Signed a 4 year contract. 

Its not bloody negative and defeatist to say when you want something and you dont get it, that its disappointing! Stop being so childish. If you asked Mowbray, I bet hes disappointed that he didnt get the players he wanted too.

[Beanie01289]

16 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He had the money, he had the lists, the targets, and he failed to address various key positions.

So far until the loan window closes he could sign anyone. 

[47er]

1 minute ago, Beanie01289 said:

So far until the loan window closes he could sign anyone. 

Well he'd better get a bloody move on eh?

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, Beanie01289 said:

So far until the loan window closes he could sign anyone. 

I would have thought anyone expecting the loan market to be our salvation will be sadly disappointed. Essentially It's a pool of players either  Clubs Don't want or young lads with hardly any senior experience. As has been said many times before, ok for putting the finishing touches to your business but not for forming the core part of it.

Still as gutted as I am about the window, that's my last word on it, nothing we can do about it now. All we can do is get behind the team and hope.

Edited August 9, 2018 by RevidgeBlue

[Bbrovers2288]

I’m struggling to see the benefit of a team allowing these loans you talk of, 

 

1- they will say yea come back in January 

2- why deplete their own squad when they can’t use the money to sign replacements.

Means the only loans that will be available is big team u23 players, which won’t be for long term and no future fee agreed.

today was the day to make our squad ready and competitive and it hasn’t happened. Think a good few are clinging on to these fabled loans that won’t happen

 

[47er]

Chapman, a good striker and a "rugged" centre-back and it would have been a successful window. I suppose, with the loan period still open, it still could be.

But atm 3 out of ten.

[47er]

I put this on the "Thursday Deadline" thread but its probably more relevant here:

The thing I hate about loans is they are always youngsters who've never featured in the first team but we are always told they have a brilliant future and "we could not possibly afford them."

Then they take time to get up to speed, then, when they get their chance, we find they are no better than what we have already and in some cases, worse.

They then disappear, turn up at some other club and end up being sold for a small fee to a lower league club or abroad, never to be heard of again.All the Premier League teams do is to hoover up all the talent they can find so no other team gets them, then their playing list is unmanageable so they palm them off to mugs like us. One's already cost us two points and we've only played one game!

Seriously what proportion of loanees from the Premier League end up playing there? And yes, I did know that Beckham once played for Preston but he's the exception that proves the rule.

I guess this is partly why Mowbray stated he didn't want to rely on loanees. Pity he wasted such a long time drawing up his 2 Lists back in the day and sat on it.

No excuses, this is an effin disaster. No extra season ticket sales on the basis of this window, not exciting as we were told. The very epitome of what Venky ownership has been about----spin but no delivery.

Very disappointed but not surprised.

[Beanie01289]

37 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

I’m struggling to see the benefit of a team allowing these loans you talk of, 

 

1- they will say yea come back in January 

2- why deplete their own squad when they can’t use the money to sign replacements.

Means the only loans that will be available is big team u23 players, which won’t be for long term and no future fee agreed.

today was the day to make our squad ready and competitive and it hasn’t happened. Think a good few are clinging on to these fabled loans that won’t happen

 

Thats just not true if you meet the valuation of a player they will accept payment which ever way it comes it's often taken out of the hands of managers if a club meets the valuation of a player. 

[Beanie01289]

47 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I would have thought anyone expecting the loan market to be our salvation will be sadly disappointed. Essentially It's a pool of players either  Clubs Don't want or young lads with hardly any senior experience. As has been said many times before, ok for putting the finishing touches to your business but not for forming the core part of it.

Still as gutted as I am about the window, that's my last word on it, nothing we can do about it now. All we can do is get behind the team and hope.

Not if you structure the loan to be permanent in Jan often a club has a number they accept for players it's about meeting it.

[Fraserkirky]

Some of my thoughts on where we find ourselves after a horrific deadline day.

 

Firstly, I think Tony Mowbray is the bees knees. He will be very honest when he talks next about the deadline, although he won’t be concerned. That was extremely painful the last 24hrs. Why have we not bid for Brereton weeks ago?

 

• What is this no foreigner rule? Get the interested foreign based on your search engine Tony. Are our scouts not bothering to look too the continent? I know it’s risky, but is Your Freeneys  and Whittinghams of this world. Bargains like Nzonzi out there.
• Palmer be better bloody brilliant
• Bauer, strange one, why have we gotten into a scrap with them? Just find out his price and say thanks very much,Charlton, we will get back to you. Would have been delighted to get him for 1.25-1.5m today. 
• Wharton rush? Why did we feel the urge to get rid of him so soon, could it not have waited?
• Give Nyambe a new contract immediately. If Smallwood and Willliams get a contract for being bang average and sometimes poor, then Ryan needs one.
• Disappointed to see Nmecha join Preston, bet he does well there.
• Our Central Midfield options are actually okay for now. We have two hot prospects in there with Davenport and Travis, and two more experienced but limited guys. Also think Bennett’s best position is central Midfield. Rothwell feels unfortunately a lot like Gladwin II. I do wonder if Kasey Palmer play there with a more defensive minded guy like Smallwood or have Bennett do the covering. Might see that at home.
• Is Chris Samba still available on a free and can we sign free transfers?
• With regards to the loan market, I would have thought Chelsea and City, for example, would want to group their loanees out to particular clubs together. Would it not be easier to watch your prospects in a team? Improve teamwork, dynamics? Having said that, who have Chelsea got that’s surplus that fits our needs:
• Micheal Hector(Centre-back), linked early on, maybe on C list. Not got a move yet. Fits the need, could sort out a permanent agreement I would have thought.
• Charly Musonda, high rated attacking midfielder/left winger. Weird injury at Celtic and they shipped him back. Will be going out on loan again soon.
• Special mention for Lucas Piazon. Coming back from injury but would a good addition I think.
• Then the Pie in the sky Tammy Abraham dream.

 

I am concerned, as others have said, about the lack of cover at the three positions mentioned. CB, LE and husky Striker. Hopefully we can arrange suitable deals for Bauer or Hector, Chapman or Musonda and Ben Brereton before the end of August.

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Fraserkirky

[glen9mullan]

My thoughts to date:

 

We have replaced Payne, Chapman and Antonnson with Palmer , Rothwell and Davenport .

the question is, are these better than the three we had last season? Only time will tell on that front.

We have tied a few players down to new contracts , although in football that does not mean an awful lot bar you can potentially get a better sale fee if the player has longer on his contract . After promotion last season I would of been shocked if anyone had been sold , given the momentum and positivity around the squad.

last season we finished second in league 1 and pretty much have the same team this time around but now a division higher. I think 10 of the 11 who started Saturday started the first game of last season.

We talk about budgets etc , but in today’s market what we have spent  is way below what is needed for what is increasingly becoming a premier league 2, if the money was there to improve the squad with solid championship players , then we have failed miserably on the permanent signing front .

i see a lot pointing at the loan window as the second coming and yes we may pull 2 or 3 out of the bag and end up with some top youngsters. However all in all considering the ever increasing rising in transfer fees we are just not at the races to compete on a level playing field.

We need wide players , a couple of strikers, a centre back and a right back as a bare minimum. However instead of experienced pros , with proven track records , it looks like we may end up going down the route of sighing another teams potential on loan .

The championship is going to be tough, we will need a good start and won’t have that bedding in of players period others who have signed loads have . This will hopefully give us an advantage in our early fixtures to get a few points. However as the season progresses and those teams get up to speed , I genuinely think we are going to struggle for clean sheets and scoring enough goals.

The likes of Samuel were not good enough for league 1 and are certainly not good enough to spearhead us in the championship should Graham get injured.

Armstrong is a class Act but will need to get the monkey of his back from his two previous spells in the Championship , I think he is more than capable , but still has it all to prove.

The supporters did not set the expectations this summer, TM said he had a good budget , TM said we’d sign another 4 or 5,  TM said we’d sign players with bags of experience and sprinkle a few young exciting players around them.

on all fronts as things stand , this has been very underwhelming and we have until the end of the month to pluck some real competitive options from somewhere 

[Neal]

I'm stuck between 2 feelings really... I'm positive about the fact we've tried to go out and bring in some genuine talent but I'm dissapointed we have taken a chance on some of the talent from league 1 as I think there is some good value to be had, especially if you look at Edwards and Maddison at Peterbrough. Although we were never linked, seeing Ulloa going out on loan to some Mexican side is dissapointing because I think he'd have done a real job here. 

 

That aside, we can still bring bodies in and sign them in about 4 months time, so we'll have people coming in putting everything in for a permenant move and possibly getting them for better value now the window has passed. 

 

I still think come the end of the window we'll be happy.