Loan Window

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

 

He meant James Husband when he said "big bro". I don't know when English lads started talking like yank jocks but it's the thing to call a mate your bro now. 

Ok, that makes sense. I can't keep up with the lingo these days at all. I thought it sounded like an odd move for all involved 

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, Lancaster Rover said:

There's another player who has similar, if not slightly better stats than Brereton going for not a lot of money. Woodrow did reasonably at both Burton and Bristol City, he's played and scored in the prem and has represented England at various age levels.

I wanted us to take a chance on Brereton when the fee was being mooted as 5 or 6 million and we were being told we had a healthy budget and it was being made out we also had money to bring in Freeman as well.

But I'm struggling to understand why we are even still talking to forest with some of the figures being suggested.

Players like Bradshaw and a few others are moving to clubs for low fees whilst from the outside looking in seems we are wasting our time persuing a player that his current club are looking for silly money for.

I honestly can't wait for this window to close

[Lancaster Rover]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

I wanted us to take a chance on Brereton when the fee was being mooted as 5 or 6 million and we were being told we had a healthy budget and it was being made out we also had money to bring in Freeman as well.

But I'm struggling to understand why we are even still talking to forest with some of the figures being suggested.

Players like Bradshaw and a few others are moving to clubs for low fees whilst from the outside looking in seems we are wasting our time persuing a player that his current club are looking for silly money for.

I honestly can't wait for this window to close

Agreed, Forest obviously have a procedure when dealing with selling young players, fair play to them. As you say with the stance they're taking it beggars belief we're even talking about him.

[bluebruce]

22 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Players are moving for inflated fees across the board, we need to get involved at some point.

Well, no, we don't need to get involved at all. We could just get involved with some of the transfers being done at far more reasonable prices. Armstrongs, Dacks, Edwards, Rothwell, Davenport, the Brentford lad, there's plenty available. It has just been said that Millwall are about to spend their record ever fee of 1 million! They've had quite a lot of seasons in this league, all told, for that kind of spend. They finished 8th in it last year.

Potential can be bought without a premium. If it doesn't work out, you then have enough left to try again. I'm not saying don't spend quite big, but something like 4 million or so is really the upper limit of what we should spend on potential. Anything more, we need someone who has shown they can do it NOW. There are no guarantees in football, but it's wiser to gamble big bucks when there is a track record.

[Red]

Do you think Rovers are interested in a loan only?

Karanka does still like Brereton and when he talks about selling he says if it's something at suits all 3 parties, then a deal can happen, but he has also spoken of him getting experience.  I don't think it's beyond the realms that Brereton could go out on loan to play.  Not sure if that's something Rovers are looking for, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up on a normal loan somewhere either.

[Torgeir]

If we end up buying Brereton the fee will never be disclosed, so it's anyone's guess. £12m does sound over the top, unless Mowbray is willing to put his balls on the line on him making it big.

[bluebruce]

11 minutes ago, Red said:

Do you think Rovers are interested in a loan only?

Karanka does still like Brereton and when he talks about selling he says if it's something at suits all 3 parties, then a deal can happen, but he has also spoken of him getting experience.  I don't think it's beyond the realms that Brereton could go out on loan to play.  Not sure if that's something Rovers are looking for, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up on a normal loan somewhere either.

Possibly, but the fans would hate it after talk of spending 8 mill or so on him. I don't know it's too wise to help develop Forest's unproven player. Wouldn't be shocked though, if we ended up taking him to fill the gap short term and get a better look at him.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Red said:

Do you think Rovers are interested in a loan only?

Karanka does still like Brereton and when he talks about selling he says if it's something at suits all 3 parties, then a deal can happen, but he has also spoken of him getting experience.  I don't think it's beyond the realms that Brereton could go out on loan to play.  Not sure if that's something Rovers are looking for, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up on a normal loan somewhere either.

Danny Graham is in the last year of his contract and can barely play more than 60 minutes each week as it is - so a permanent striker to compete/learn/share the load with this season and then replace him possibly next season is what we ideally need. In fact it has been the biggest priority for most of us fans this window. We have Armstrong but he is a different kind of striker and mainly plays in the three behind the big man.

A loan only would just show that we have failed in this transfer window to address a very important area. Brereton would go back home next season and we would have to find a striker all over again (two now in fact).

[Waggy76]

Sylla from QPR is being mentioned on SKY SSN , never heard of him !!!

[JacknOry]

1 minute ago, Waggy76 said:

Sylla from QPR is being mentioned on SKY SSN , never heard of him !!!

Please no.

5th choice striker at a rock bottom QPR - jeezuz. From one extreme to another on here today. 14 million strikers to this guy!

[Red]

3 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Danny Graham is in the last year of his contract and can barely play more than 60 minutes each week as it is - so a permanent striker to compete/learn/share the load with this season and then replace him possibly next season is what we ideally need. In fact it has been the biggest priority for most of us fans this window. We have Armstrong but he is a different kind of striker and mainly plays in the three behind the big man.

A loan only would just show that we have failed in this transfer window to address a very important area. Brereton would go back home next season and we would have to find a striker all over again (two now in fact).

Yeah I understand.  Brereton is a genuine striker and I think having a foil to work off, or even having the chance to compete with a spot with Graham would suit him.  He's not ready to be a 90minute leading striker week in/week out just yet.  But I get the frustration of needing something more permanent.  I think what makes it tough is it doesn't seem we're actively shopping Brereton, he is liked and very highly rated at the club, so he's never going to be a bargain.  If a move doesn't happen, I think he will very quickly find himself on the bench at Forest.  He's been linked with moves since he scored vs Villa, but nothing like this before so I think he'll have no involvement until it's all sorted.

 

Thank God there's only a week left of this window.  Everything will be done and dusted soon.  

[Valois]

7 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Well, no, we don't need to get involved at all. We could just get involved with some of the transfers being done at far more reasonable prices. Armstrongs, Dacks, Edwards, Rothwell, Davenport, the Brentford lad, there's plenty available. It has just been said that Millwall are about to spend their record ever fee of 1 million! They've had quite a lot of seasons in this league, all told, for that kind of spend. They finished 8th in it last year.

Potential can be bought without a premium. If it doesn't work out, you then have enough left to try again. I'm not saying don't spend quite big, but something like 4 million or so is really the upper limit of what we should spend on potential. Anything more, we need someone who has shown they can do it NOW. There are no guarantees in football, but it's wiser to gamble big bucks when there is a track record.

Spot on. There has to be some middle ground, we don’t have an endless pit of money like the other clubs spending big. Why gamble so much on “potential”? If it doesn’t work out, then what? We’ve put all our eggs in one basket and I doubt we will get anywhere near that sort of funding from the owners again.

[Admiral Nelsen]

3 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Please no.

5th choice striker at a rock bottom QPR - jeezuz. From one extreme to another on here today. 14 million strikers to this guy!

So much phoney war stuff going on at the moment. No idea if the Brereton interest is smoke and mirrors or not, but you'd expect that if there's any sort of budget at all to speak of, then this must be agent-talk. 

[RevidgeBlue]

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I can see this Brereton deal breaking down and us going elsewhere. I get the feeling Forest are pricking around and looking for too much. 

I think if we do sign him though, fans need to just forget about the fee. At the end of the day it makes no difference to us how much he cost, ultimately all that will matter is if he delivers. 

Most on here thought at the beginning of the window that we didn't have a pot to piss in, so actually signing a player for a decent fee should be seen as a positive and exciting step. 

You're probably right that the Brereton deal is dead in the water TM spoke roughly a week ago about moving on from certain deals because they were too expensive, I took him to mean Brereton by that.

There's still nothing to contradict the assertion we haven't got a lot to piss in is there? We still haven't signed anyone for a decent fee with just a week of the loan window to go, it's looking increasingly likely that We're not going to get the players in the positions we need, at best we're only going to end up with someone fairly dreadful on loan and now it transpires that quite possibly we Didn't even make a bid for Brereton at all on deadline day. (Not that it particularly matters whether we did or we didn't as there wasn't physically time to complete the deal anyway.)

Can't help thinking that as fans We've completely been led up the garden path this summer. If there wasn't any money available they should have just said so from the off. Can't imagine TM is very happy with the way things have transpired, I'm sure he genuinely believed players would be coming in and was only passing on what he'd been told by the "recruitment department" when he made his weekly predictions about varying numbers of players coming in and big money still to be spent etc.

[Bigdoggsteel]

24 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Well, no, we don't need to get involved at all. We could just get involved with some of the transfers being done at far more reasonable prices. Armstrongs, Dacks, Edwards, Rothwell, Davenport, the Brentford lad, there's plenty available. It has just been said that Millwall are about to spend their record ever fee of 1 million! They've had quite a lot of seasons in this league, all told, for that kind of spend. They finished 8th in it last year.

Potential can be bought without a premium. If it doesn't work out, you then have enough left to try again. I'm not saying don't spend quite big, but something like 4 million or so is really the upper limit of what we should spend on potential. Anything more, we need someone who has shown they can do it NOW. There are no guarantees in football, but it's wiser to gamble big bucks when there is a track record.

The examples you give of players who moved for reasonable fees, mostly play for us  After unearthing those gems, Mowbray deserves the benefit of the doubt on this one. On Millwall , you do remember they were in League 1 the season before last? They did well last year and have punched above their weight, but I would like to think that now things seem to be going in the right direction here again, our bar is higher than Millwall.  

It's not just as simple as saying you can buy someone who can do it straight away for the same type of money. Look at Ross McCormock at Villa, Scott Hogan too. Both cost £12 million and have failed. So now where are Villa at with them? Factor in their wages, which would be a lot more than Brereton and you are looking at Villa being in the hole for around £20 million on each player if they see out their contracts. Forest signed Grabban for £6 million, if he doesn't work out, what will his sell on value be? Even if he does work out and plays well for 3 seasons, he will have no sell on value and they have also forked out millions in wages. Brereton is a risk too, but if it works out , it could be a far better deal for us in the long run 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[JacknOry]

11 minutes ago, Red said:

Yeah I understand.  Brereton is a genuine striker and I think having a foil to work off, or even having the chance to compete with a spot with Graham would suit him.  He's not ready to be a 90minute leading striker week in/week out just yet.  But I get the frustration of needing something more permanent.  I think what makes it tough is it doesn't seem we're actively shopping Brereton, he is liked and very highly rated at the club, so he's never going to be a bargain.  If a move doesn't happen, I think he will very quickly find himself on the bench at Forest.  He's been linked with moves since he scored vs Villa, but nothing like this before so I think he'll have no involvement until it's all sorted.

 

Thank God there's only a week left of this window.  Everything will be done and dusted soon.  

Its quite clear you do not need to sell the kid despite throwing millions around lately - despite the Nixon talk of you guys hiring an agent to shop him around the day before deadline day.

I'm all for buying potential but our current situation really means we need someone that can either step up now to be a main number 9 or somebody that after a season working with Graham and sharing the workload - will be ready to take it on the following season. Plenty of short-term young loans that can be made from the PL or Brereton as a stop-gap but that leaves us with far too much work to do next season as the new striker really WOULD have to be of the quality to hit the ground running.

[Lancaster Rover]

Villa in the hole for 20 million, we're currently about 124 million in the hole and getting 12k through the gates. Villa are still getting parachute payments and look one of the favourites to go up this year.

[ben_the_beast]

In regards to sylla. The journo who wrote the story apparently is fairly accurate in anything QPR related

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Lancaster Rover said:

Villa in the hole for 20 million, we're currently about 124 million in the hole and getting 12k through the gates. Villa are still getting parachute payments and look one of the favourites to go up this year.

They didn't look so good losing at home the other night  

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, ben_the_beast said:

In regards to sylla. The journo who wrote the story apparently is fairly accurate in anything QPR related

Reliable according to who? 

[JacknOry]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The examples you give of players who moved for reasonable fees, mostly play for us  After unearthing those gems, Mowbray deserves the benefit of the doubt on this one. On Millwall , you do remember they were in League 1 the season before last? They did well last year and have punched above their weight, but I would like to think that now things seem to be going in the right direction here again, our bar is higher than Millwall.  

It's not just as simple as saying you can buy someone who can do it straight away for the same type of money. Look at Ross McCormock at Villa, Scott Hogan too. Both cost £12 million and have failed. So now where are Villa at with them? Factor in their wages, which would be a lot more than Brereton and you are looking at Villa being in the hole for around £20 million on each player if they see out their contracts. Forest signed Grabban for £6 million, if he doesn't work out, what will his sell on value be? Even if he does work out and plays well for 3 seasons, he will have no sell on value and they have also forked out millions in wages. Brereton is a risk too, but if it works out , it could be a far better deal for us in the long run 

They have bounced between the Championship and League 1 for a few seasons but I am still amazed they have not broken the million barrier in their history, 900k is their record and that was almost 30-years ago.

[Lancaster Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

They didn't look so good losing at home the other night  

Who?

If you mean Villa they drew 2 a piece

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Lancaster Rover

[ben_the_beast]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Reliable according to who? 

QPR supporting mate. Said he's usually fairly on the button with things

[AAK]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

They didn't look so good losing at home the other night  

sorry to be pedantic it was 2-2, they scored in 89th minute or summet pal

[JacknOry]

Pretty sure there will be meltdown with that one one here - especially after talk of spending huge amounts on a striker recently.