Loan Window

[briansol]

5 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He is right no doubt but Mowbray's comments yesterday don't suggest anything is close and it read to me they will be short term loans rather than agreed to buy come January 

So far we have made a right mess of this window if we have the sort of cash being talked about.

Happy with the signings brought in but we need more quality.The only new signing that started on Saturday we don't even own which is a joke really if we have any ambition other than being in the bottom half 

Agreed. The failure has been getting the ones that will come straight into the team. Davenport (injured) and Rothwell was buyed for potential. Only Palmer and Armstrong was expected to challenge for a starting place which means we are we are still light on improving the core of the team. 

I think Mowbray also realises that it will be very hard to bring in that quality now when there is little chance to replace them for the selling club. Premier League surplus, but then you have the wage issue since even reserves there are paid over the top Championship wages. Foreign players are probably better since most windows closes 31 August, but then you really need your scouting in order.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, briansol said:

 

Seem to remember last season that the manager was getting a budget for each transfer window. Waggott claimed that they had a very healthy budget for the January window which they didn't spend too much of. Bell, Downing and probably some loan fees for Armstrong and Payne. 

Rich Sharpe says that Mowbray doesn't like to overpay for players and will rather wait. Rothwell and Bell being two examples of this. They tried for Bell last summer ended up waiting untill January to bring him for under half the amount quoted in the summer. Similar story with Rothwell. 

I'm sure there will be money in January, though you would expect if we have we have some distant chance of a play-off that will really help towards a big budget

No point having money if it doesn't get spent though. Like you say didn't spend it in January and haven't spent it this window.

[islander200]

Just now, briansol said:

Agreed. The failure has been getting the ones that will come straight into the team. Davenport (injured) and Rothwell was buyed for potential. Only Palmer and Armstrong was expected to challenge for a starting place which means we are we are still light on improving the core of the team. 

I think Mowbray also realises that it will be very hard to bring in that quality now when there is little chance to replace them for the selling club. Premier League surplus, but then you have the wage issue since even reserves there are paid over the top Championship wages. Foreign players are probably better since most windows closes 31 August, but then you really need your scouting in order.

Yes but what Mowbray said yesterday contradicts what he said prior to the window closing.

In an interview in either the let or rovers site I can't remember which, he said there will be no panic if we don't get anyone over the line by the 9th as we can still loan which will become perm once the January window arrives.

But yesterday it was all about short term loans.Plenty of players which would have improved us have moved for prices well within our reported budget and I can't help but feel the recruitment team and Mowbray have made a bit of a mess of this window.

 

[JHRover]

36 minutes ago, islander200 said:

One thing that does strike me as odd with that article, leading up to deadline day Mowbray said it didn't matter if we didn't get players in before the 9th as we could still loan and make it permanent in January.

Then yesterday it was all about short term loans and going again in January if we are doing ok and the money is still available. What's changed?

I get the wages side of things but why aren't we doing what every other club in the country does, sound out the players agent and find out what they would be looking for?

Its very odd and something simply doesn't add up.

In some ways it would make more sense for Nixon's theory to be correct - that there was originally a more limited budget and then suddenly Venkys decided to throw a lot more at it - that would explain the late 'big' bids and ultimately ending up running out of time as the whole thing was suddenly thrown up into the air with a few weeks to go. However Mowbray has said that wasn't the case and that the money was there all the way from his trip to India. If that is indeed the case, and I certainly would like to believe Mowbray over Nixon, then it is baffling as to how with such a competitive sum of money we failed to get any serious deals done other than the Armstrong one (which would have been a straightforward deal to complete in the scheme of things).

It just doesn't seem right to me. Something has gone wrong somewhere for so little by way of additions when supposedly the cash was there to do it. 

Then the talk of short term loans and January window deals seem at odds with what was being said last week when there was talk about loans with permanents agreed being as good as permanent signings, Mowbray now suggesting that having to settle for some loans is not what he wants and is not ideal but is the best we can expect.

 

[briansol]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

No point having money if it doesn't get spent though. Like you say didn't spend it in January and haven't spent it this window.

Yeah, a bit too much last dance on the disco for my taste. Getting things done on the last day almost never happens, I would guess 90% of approaches fails in general. Hard to know from the outside, but it appears we waited too long for our first choices to become available. Mowbray is a proud man, maybe in this case he's been too proud. 

We'll see how the it goes with untill the end of the month. At this point I'm more concerned getting the players in where we lack, rather than being loans. Need to keep the ship afloat untill January. Expecting a new move for Bauer in January at least.

[briansol]

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Yes but what Mowbray said yesterday contradicts what he said prior to the window closing.

In an interview in either the let or rovers site I can't remember which, he said there will be no panic if we don't get anyone over the line by the 9th as we can still loan which will become perm once the January window arrives.

But yesterday it was all about short term loans.Plenty of players which would have improved us have moved for prices well within our reported budget and I can't help but feel the recruitment team and Mowbray have made a bit of a mess of this window.

 

Yes I thought that was a bit off as well. Seemed defeated after the window and no longer confident of pulling off the loan/perm options he alluded to earlier. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

No point having money if it doesn't get spent though. Like you say didn't spend it in January and haven't spent it this window.

I'm very much of the mindset that I wouldnt praise Venkys for wanting to spend, or planning to, or trying to but unable to before the deadline etc. I will happily do so if and when a deal goes through. 

If that is genuinely the case, then there is no reason why we cant spend it now, on loans with an obligation to buy, basically permanent deals, in which case the window is still open.

I dont think its undue paranoia to pick up on the phrasing of Mowbray's interview yesterday, as if hes in some sort of doubt as to whether the money will still be available when he wants to spend it next, and also in terms of whether the deals we do look to conclude in the rest of the month are more stop-gap loans rather than ones that lead to permanent deals. We will see. He also said that Armstrong was well down our list and we signed him a couple of days later so hes clearly not opposed to telling a white lie to bluff us!

I take on board that the market is a bit stupid but it is for everyone, you cant hide behind that and not sign players at all, and with the improvements in scouting I've heard on, surely we can find some players or it was pointless improving that side of the club.

In terms of teams being more unwilling to sell, as you touch on @briansol many Prem clubs will have been of the mindset of theyd rather have more than enough than less than enough at window end, knowing that teams lower down the chain can then sign their unwanted surplus in the extended loan window. Look at players like Gallagher (who I dont want) as a perfect example, Southampton signed Ings last minute, they already have Gabbiadini, Long and Austin, and will have been relaxed knowing that the only teams that would want Gallagher would have been in the football league, therefore a deal wasnt urgent prior to Thursday, and that only once they know they dont need him to fill the squad will they allow him to leave.

Teams in the football league are in the same position as us, therefore they CAN sign replacements if their players leave. So that cant be used as an excuse. That said, 3 of the most common names on here are Brereton, Chapman and Maddison, and if im not mistaken all 3 have all not played a minute so far this season. Chapman has been in the squads along with Taverneir and Wing who Pulis clearly rates higher than Chapman, as he has started 2 of 3 I believe. Boro had a couple of deals fall through before the window and I think Pulis has said he is still in the market, they have even been linked with Bolasie to replace Traore, therefore he may become available. Maddison, his chairman has said they will consider loan to buys, and Brereton is 4th choice at his club and has been left behind a bit due to the money theyve spent. I'm not saying definitely sign one of those 3, more showing that players availability wont have massively decrease, logically speaking.

One thing I will say, is that im not opposed to 1 or 2 loans, like Palmer, who clearly dont have a chance of being made permanent, but are of a calibre that will greatly improve our options. We just dont want a squad full of stop gaps, as Mowbray has previously touched on. I'd be disappointed if we didnt get one or two loans with obligation to buys for players that will greatly improve us, considering weve been told that the money is there, and knowing that the window is basically still open. 

[FGS5635]

Cryptic tweet just came out from chapman. Just says Timing, then an egg timer. Hmmmmmm, does he sign tomorrow?

[islander200]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

I'm very much of the mindset that I wouldnt praise Venkys for wanting to spend, or planning to, or trying to but unable to before the deadline etc. I will happily do so if and when a deal goes through. 

If that is genuinely the case, then there is no reason why we cant spend it now, on loans with an obligation to buy, basically permanent deals, in which case the window is still open.

I dont think its undue paranoia to pick up on the phrasing of Mowbray's interview yesterday, as if hes in some sort of doubt as to whether the money will still be available when he wants to spend it next, and also in terms of whether the deals we do look to conclude in the rest of the month are more stop-gap loans rather than ones that lead to permanent deals. We will see. He also said that Armstrong was well down our list and we signed him a couple of days later so hes clearly not opposed to telling a white lie to bluff us!

I take on board that the market is a bit stupid but it is for everyone, you cant hide behind that and not sign players at all, and with the improvements in scouting I've heard on, surely we can find some players or it was pointless improving that side of the club.

In terms of teams being more unwilling to sell, as you touch on @briansol many Prem clubs will have been of the mindset of theyd rather have more than enough than less than enough at window end, knowing that teams lower down the chain can then sign their unwanted surplus in the extended loan window. Look at players like Gallagher (who I dont want) as a perfect example, Southampton signed Ings last minute, they already have Gabbiadini, Long and Austin, and will have been relaxed knowing that the only teams that would want Gallagher would have been in the football league, therefore a deal wasnt urgent prior to Thursday, and that only once they know they dont need him to fill the squad will they allow him to leave.

Teams in the football league are in the same position as us, therefore they CAN sign replacements if their players leave. So that cant be used as an excuse. That said, 3 of the most common names on here are Brereton, Chapman and Maddison, and if im not mistaken all 3 have all not played a minute so far this season. Chapman has been in the squads along with Taverneir and Wing who Pulis clearly rates higher than Chapman, as he has started 2 of 3 I believe. Boro had a couple of deals fall through before the window and I think Pulis has said he is still in the market, they have even been linked with Bolasie to replace Traore, therefore he may become available. Maddison, his chairman has said they will consider loan to buys, and Brereton is 4th choice at his club and has been left behind a bit due to the money theyve spent. I'm not saying definitely sign one of those 3, more showing that players availability wont have massively decrease, logically speaking.

One thing I will say, is that im not opposed to 1 or 2 loans, like Palmer, who clearly dont have a chance of being made permanent, but are of a calibre that will greatly improve our options. We just dont want a squad full of stop gaps, as Mowbray has previously touched on. I'd be disappointed if we didnt get one or two loans with obligation to buys for players that will greatly improve us, considering weve been told that the money is there, and knowing that the window is basically still open. 

Good post.Agree with all that.

It will be very disappointing if nobody is brought in with it being made perm in January. 

We need a couple to come in definitely a striker and for me a central midfielder if good quality is nearly just as important. 

As much as I like Smallwoods effort he just doesn't look up to it at this level.People may call me harsh as we are only two games in but the last time he was contracted to a club in this division they sent him out on loan to league 1.

What ever happens short term loan or loan to buy they need to be brought in sharpish not at the end of the window.

 

 

 

[AdamRochina]

36 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

Cryptic tweet just came out from chapman. Just says Timing, then an egg timer. Hmmmmmm, does he sign tomorrow?

If you click it it takes you to his insta with him in his boro kit on the pitch 

[Tom]

Imagine he’ll get a game for them on Tuesday in the ‘whateveritscalled Cup’

[Bepeja43]

Not hopeful at all of incomings, and that first half v Millwall is as poor as I've seen us, inc Coyle. Dire stuff.

[chaddyrovers]

I think Mowbray is just be over cautious with his comments about loan signings. Hopefully we been working on loan deals since last Thursday night. I think Mowbray feel abit burnt that signings werent done last week. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[Bepeja43]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I think Mowbray is just be over cautious with his comments about loan signings. Hopefully we been working on loan deals since last Thursday night. I think Mowbray abit burnt that signings werent done last week. 

So even you are suggesting things haven't gone as hoped? Wonders will never cease!

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think Mowbray is just be over cautious with his comments about loan signings. Hopefully we been working on loan deals since last Thursday night. I think Mowbray abit burnt that signings werent done last week. 

If any of us had said the quotes he said, or shown the frustration he showed, you would be calling us negative, tell us to have the faith, or at a push, saying we may as well forfeit the season.

[chaddyrovers]

I hope we sign Brereton on loan to buy in January for 5/6 mil this week. 

And a winger aswell. Either Chapman or Maddison will do

[Bepeja43]

I don't believe for one second any deal will be loan-to-buy.. The picture is becoming clear now and its pointing to the same old story.

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I hope we sign Brereton on loan to buy in January for 5/6 mil this week. 

And a winger aswell. Either Chapman or Maddison will do

Im not that hopeful but I agree that it would be a big boost.

But you implied on the other thread that wingers are a thing of the past ?

Edited August 12, 2018 by roversfan99

[JHRover]

19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I hope we sign Brereton on loan to buy in January for 5/6 mil this week. 

And a winger aswell. Either Chapman or Maddison will do

That would require a commitment to spend at least £7-8 million on transfer fees alone, never mind wages. 

As I said last week on this subject, I'll believe that when I see it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Brereton turn up before the end of the month on a loan until January.

 

[Bepeja43]

All things being equal.. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.. TM being fcked about from those on high.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

Its very odd and something simply doesn't add up.

In some ways it would make more sense for Nixon's theory to be correct - that there was originally a more limited budget and then suddenly Venkys decided to throw a lot more at it - that would explain the late 'big' bids and ultimately ending up running out of time as the whole thing was suddenly thrown up into the air with a few weeks to go. However Mowbray has said that wasn't the case and that the money was there all the way from his trip to India. If that is indeed the case, and I certainly would like to believe Mowbray over Nixon, then it is baffling as to how with such a competitive sum of money we failed to get any serious deals done other than the Armstrong one (which would have been a straightforward deal to complete in the scheme of things).

It just doesn't seem right to me. Something has gone wrong somewhere for so little by way of additions when supposedly the cash was there to do it. 

Then the talk of short term loans and January window deals seem at odds with what was being said last week when there was talk about loans with permanents agreed being as good as permanent signings, Mowbray now suggesting that having to settle for some loans is not what he wants and is not ideal but is the best we can expect.

 

I may be wrong but in my view  loans with an option or obligation to purchase are extremely rare so when TM casually dropped it into a presser the other week as if it were somehow the norm, it came across to me as an attempt to deflect attention away from how badly the permanent window was going rather than a genuine statement of intent. However because everyone was so desperate to sign someone people clung onto that particular comment like a drowning man finding a life raft.

I wouldn't really expect anything other than out and out loans to come in during the loan window. Whether these will be the players we really need or just whoever has been made available on loan remains to be seen.

I thought the need for a powerful striker  with an eye for goal was never more apparent than yesterday and I was also thinking when Millwall were camped in their own eighteen yard area "God we could do with Chapman".

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, Bepeja43 said:

Not hopeful at all of incomings, and that first half v Millwall is as poor as I've seen us, inc Coyle. Dire stuff.

We're doooooomed!

[sparky12]

5 hours ago, Bepeja43 said:

Not hopeful at all of incomings, and that first half v Millwall is as poor as I've seen us, inc Coyle. Dire stuff.

Not been watching for long then.

[Paul Mani]

7 hours ago, Bepeja43 said:

I don't believe for one second any deal will be loan-to-buy.. The picture is becoming clear now and its pointing to the same old story.

The situation is as unclear than its ever been since Mowbray came to the club. As much as you’d like to, please don’t bend the rhetoric to fit your argument.

You made another point before saying it was the “worst performance” you’d seen including Coyle. Assuming you weren’t here for the Kean era when we went three home games without a shot on target? Or if you remember a time where Akpan and Lowe were our midfield linchpins? Assuming also that you didn’t come to our first two home games in League 1 either?

We were off the pace on Saturday for the first 30 minutes and then grew into a game where the 8th best team in the league needed their keeper to make 4 (Dack free kick, 2 x DG one on one & Rothwell rocket) great saves and an mom performance to stop us from trouncing them.

No one is happy with the transfer situation and come Sep 1st I’m sure there will be an autopsy. What worries me is that we had money to spend but were unable to spend it. But now is not the time to simply make stuff up.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Paul Mani

[Give 'Em the Axe]

Maybe it's dead in the water, but how as ever. Over the weekend I was chatting to friend from home who is a Forest fanatic, so I asked him for the lowdown on Brereton. Because I'm a sad case and on a break I'll type out his message in full:

 

Quote

Forest would be barkin' mad to let him go. He's VERY highly rated amongst fans. He's got bags of pace. Great touch. Loves to run with the ball, and has the muscle to upset defenders. He still needs to add more goals to his game. He's played 35-odd games and scored 6 goals. But then again he's only turned 19 and the Forest team he's been playing in has been pretty unbalanced and tactically weak until recently. In the right set up (which hopefully Forest now are), he'll progress. I'd love to see him linking up with with Grabban and the likes of Goudioura and Dias.

A loan deal would be a great deal. But I don't think Forest would sell. But you never know. They sold Oliver Burke. and he was a similarly lauded young lad, and Forest through and through.

So now. Take it with a pinch of salt if you must. Lord knows, if someone heard me going on about Bennett they might assume he was the second coming of Graeme Souness with the social conscience of Nelson Mandela.

This part, 'Loves to run with the ball, and has the muscle to upset defenders' had me drooling all over my phone though.