Loan Window

[Stuart]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes. Brereton has great potential and I would like him here. 

What made you change your mind?

Was it when you thought there was no money that you tried to spin it positively and now that there might be money you are trying to spin it positively?

[Guest]

Be over the moon with Brereton, whatever the price. We’ll get resale on him for sure. Especially the way this market is going. Much rather we spent that kind of money on youth than on has-been’s (Gestede was mentioned???). Gestede looked much better than he was at Rovers when he had Cairney and Conway whipping balls in for 90 minutes. 

[RovingRover]

22 minutes ago, Blueandwhitemike said:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/05/11/tenorio-columbus-crew-sc-captain-wil-trapp-acquires-greek-passport

This seems to say his contract runs until the end of 2020.

How bizarre.
The lady I spoke to earlier said that he had signed a one year contract extension that expires at the end of next year.

Need some clarification on this. Maybe she's wrong.

Maybe Kammy can get someone to confirm?

Edited August 17, 2018 by RovingRover

[AndyC]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

This deal must have been going on well before deadline day because I can't believe Mowbray would have left it go until the last day of the window and then keeping on upping bids reportedly now to the tune of 8 million l.

I know Mowbray called bullshit it on it but honestly what Nixon said about Mowbray not receiving extra backing till later in the window does seem plausible. If we had/Have the sums being talked about since venky trip then I don't see why we couldn't have got out buisness done earlier.We will be four games in minimum before any new signing is involved 

That's not the way the window works in the vast majority of times. The selling club will hold out for as long as possible, to drum up as much interest and try to create a bidding war. Incredibly hard to get deals done early in the window.

[chaddyrovers]

39 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

£8m is a lot of money @chaddyrovers and @Stuart cant be expected to list a shortlist of other potential signings as he is, presumably, not a professional scout.

For me, there are a lot of question marks. We'd be spending a massive chunk of money, a club record amount, on someone with a very underwhelming goal record thus far, we'd be paying for potential. Last time we spent this much, the striker we bought was a proven goalscorer.

My questions are in regards to his style of play mainly, he has played many games wide having read up on him, we need a focal point more than anything, he sounds like a player who is quick and runs towards goal, similar to Armstrong.

 

I am very sure that Stuart is more than capable of coming up with suggestions, He watched a lot of football and very knowledge person. We might disagree at times but I like majority of points and posts even tho I disagree at times. 

Mowbray has already said that we will adapt the style if Graham isn't playing and something we need to do. Brereton has pace and can hold the ball up and good footwork

46 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Odd question. Surely it needs no explanation? How about a couple of players at £4m. Christ, Dack is being touted as the best player outside the PL and he cost less than £1m. Armstrong was £1.2m plus add-ons. £8m is a bloody fortune for us.

Are you telling me we couldn’t find that kind of value anywhere? May as well sack our scouting team if the fans need to put names forward.

As noble as it is, we seem obsessed with British and English players. Other clubs find value overseas yet we do not. There should be a balance. I’ve never known a Rovers squad with so few foreign players. Raya and Nyambe bring the only first team regulars with Leutweiler making up the squad’s foreign players.

When we can sign someone of Brereton ability and potential is available then we should be looking to sign him Imo. 

They have been some players who were cheap to buy like McKay who went to Swansea for 500k. 

Tho I can see your point about looking overseas for a players and I will admit I thought we would look over there but it appears we want British players 

37 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Interesting, because in June you said:

‘Rovers clearly arent willing chuck millions and Millions at Promotion but do it a smarter way less cost way of building a squad with good players. 

Well lets agree on 3 million pounds come from season tickets sales thats 25% percent of our wage budget. Big help to Mowbray signing players. Yes you are right it wouldnt get us signing players at 10 million but I wouldnt want that anyway.’

 

 

Yes I did say that. No problem but With is signing a player of Brereton ability and his potential has seen me change my view. I never thought we would be looking to sign Brereton or even a chance to sign him after he was linked with Liverpool for 10 mil plus. still surprise they are looking to sell him tbh. PhilipL posted the links earlier in this thread. 

43 minutes ago, AJW said:

I agree , I am probably going to be in the minority here but I wouldn't want us to spend £8m on one player certainly not a 19 year old with "potential"  I would much prefer to spend half that one someone who like Chris Martin or Rudy Gestede or Scott  Hogan or someone like that  who albeit older but less of a risk and the other on improving midfield and defence

fair enough and I can understand the point you are making but the 3 players mention wages would be a major problem as I don't see us paying that sort of wages ever in the championship. 

Mowbray wants a young team that can develop and grow and with the age of those players you mention 2 players are 29 years old. Hogan has had major injury problems

[bluebruce]

32 minutes ago, bboy said:

 

I don't think anyone would be upset for him to sign, he's clearly a prospect, who'd have to fail miserably for us not to at least recoup our outlay.

 

I don't think he would have to fail all that spectacularly to not be trading hands for 8 million again. It's a lot of money. He would only have to show he was below average or not develop much further and we would make a significant loss.

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I am very sure that Stuart is more than capable of coming up with suggestions, He watched a lot of football and very knowledge person. We might disagree at times but I like majority of points and posts even tho I disagree at times. 

Mowbray has already said that we will adapt the style if Graham isn't playing and something we need to do. Brereton has pace and can hold the ball up and good footwork

When we can sign someone of Brereton ability and potential is available then we should be looking to sign him Imo. 

They have been some players who were cheap to buy like McKay who went to Swansea for 500k. 

Tho I can see your point about looking overseas for a players and I will admit I thought we would look over there but it appears we want British players 

Yes I did say that. No problem but With is signing a player of Brereton ability and his potential has seen me change my view. I never thought we would be looking to sign Brereton or even a chance to sign him after he was linked with Liverpool for 10 mil plus. still surprise they are looking to sell him tbh. PhilipL posted the links earlier in this thread. 

fair enough and I can understand the point you are making but the 3 players mention wages would be a major problem as I don't see us paying that sort of wages ever in the championship. 

Mowbray wants a young team that can develop and grow and with the age of those players you mention 2 players are 29 years old. Hogan has had major injury problems

May I ask how you know that he can hold the ball up? 

How many times have you seen him play? I only recall seeing him once personally. 

The video you showed is meaningless as a highlight reel can make anyone look good. From what I have read Brereton is not an effective loan striker, hence why he was often played wide.

My main concern is that he would be similar to what we have in Armstrong, and still leave us lacking a focal point should Graham be out.

[Stuart]

Just now, yeti-dog said:

You don't half have an unhealthy obsession with Chaddy...

Nor you me.

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, Stuart said:

What made you change your mind?

Was it when you thought there was no money that you tried to spin it positively and now that there might be money you are trying to spin it positively?

 

Yes I did say that. No problem but With is signing a player of Brereton ability and his potential has seen me change my view. I never thought we would be looking to sign Brereton or even a chance to sign him after he was linked with Liverpool for 10 mil plus not long ago. still surprise they are looking to sell him tbh. If Mowbray can develop Brereton like he done with Dack we have a very good player at the club.  Feel free to ask any more questions Stuart and I will answer them

28 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Exactly, Chaddy wants it because we the club are seemingly interested despite Chaddy's comments a few months ago citing he would not want us to spend millions on players. 

Nobody is allowed to debate this potential signing in Chaddy's eyes.

Even though it goes against what he himself wanted just a couple of months ago.

 Will you ever learn Chadster?

Where did I ever say posters cant debate potential signings? 

Already explained why I change my mind. 

I want Brereton here cos of the ability and potential of him

33 minutes ago, Tom said:

Add to that i don’t recall Brereton ever being mentioned as a good option until we are linked then we should definitely sign him for £8m - until we don’t sign him and the club was definitely right not to spend so much on him.

Tom, with all respect I never thought we ever had a chance of signing him at all this summer or ever but our bid for him on transfer deadline day show we want him and can afford him

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Really? Most of the staff are still when he was here. 

Really?

Really?

[roversfan99]

@chaddyrovers as asked earlier, may I ask how much you have seen him of him to have such a strong view as to his potential and how he would be worth the massive fee?

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

May I ask how you know that he can hold the ball up? 

How many times have you seen him play? I only recall seeing him once personally. 

The video you showed is meaningless as a highlight reel can make anyone look good. From what I have read Brereton is not an effective loan striker, hence why he was often played wide.

My main concern is that he would be similar to what we have in Armstrong, and still leave us lacking a focal point should Graham be out.

If Graham is out then we have to play differently and don't use it has excuse. 

I seen him a few times and you can see his talent and potential. 

Ive very happy with the Video I posted. Show a lot of ability and skills. His touch and pace was there to see. Those games were clips from Championship games and the video wasn't a short video but show more than goals like his pace, touch, footwork and his skills. 

If we sign him I would be extremely pleased and very happy

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Odd question. Surely it needs no explanation? How about a couple of players at £4m. Christ, Dack is being touted as the best player outside the PL and he cost less than £1m. Armstrong was £1.2m plus add-ons. £8m is a bloody fortune for us.

Are you telling me we couldn’t find that kind of value anywhere? May as well sack our scouting team if the fans need to put names forward.

As noble as it is, we seem obsessed with British and English players. Other clubs find value overseas yet we do not. There should be a balance. I’ve never known a Rovers squad with so few foreign players. Raya and Nyambe bring the only first team regulars with Leutweiler making up the squad’s foreign players.

And Lenihan 

[JacknOry]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

If Graham is out then we have to play differently and don't use it has excuse. 

I seen him a few times and you can see his talent and potential. 

Ive very happy with the Video I posted. Show a lot of ability and skills. His touch and pace was there to see. Those games were clips from Championship games and the video wasn't a short video but show more than goals like his pace, touch, footwork and his skills. 

If we sign him I would be extremely pleased and very happy

But you said you dont want us to sign players for lots of millions in June !

Why do you change your mind so much?

This is why the Chadometer came about !

Have an opinion and stick to it instead of changing it to suit the current management team !

Previosuly you did not want us spending millions - now you want us spending millions on 'potential' and a youtube clip! Do you not see why people get so wound up with your postings?

[roverandout]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Yes I did say that. No problem but With is signing a player of Brereton ability and his potential has seen me change my view. I never thought we would be looking to sign Brereton or even a chance to sign him after he was linked with Liverpool for 10 mil plus not long ago. still surprise they are looking to sell him tbh. If Mowbray can develop Brereton like he done with Dack we have a very good player at the club.  Feel free to ask any more questions Stuart and I will answer them

Where did I ever say posters cant debate potential signings? 

Already explained why I change my mind. 

I want Brereton here cos of the ability and potential of him

Tom, with all respect I never thought we ever had a chance of signing him at all this summer or ever but our bid for him on transfer deadline day show we want him and can afford him

Come on chaddy be honest..you had never heard of him until he was linked..you are like the rest of us..looking at youtube videos of him.  Unless you have your own personal scouting network

[Stuart]

@chaddyrovers £8m just seems way over the top for a player with potential.

It also seems hugely unlikely for us to pay that much and would make us the third highest net spenders in the division after Stoke (£14m) and Forest (£15m - if we buy Brereton from them). Nobody else comes close.

(Source: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2/plus/?saison_id=2018&s_w=&leihe=0&intern=0)

The only way this one works is if we sell a player - with Dack being the most obvious.

It makes no sense at the prices being discussed.

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

If Graham is out then we have to play differently and don't use it has excuse. 

I seen him a few times and you can see his talent and potential. 

Ive very happy with the Video I posted. Show a lot of ability and skills. His touch and pace was there to see. Those games were clips from Championship games and the video wasn't a short video but show more than goals like his pace, touch, footwork and his skills. 

If we sign him I would be extremely pleased and very happy

Or we could sign a player that can ensure that we dont have to totally change the way we play when a key part of it, Graham, who is also incapable of playing all the time, is missing? You cant have everyone wanting to run beyond the ball, you need someone who the ball can stick to.

When did you see him? The video is only the good things hes done, not the times he fell on his arse, when he hit row Z or when the ball rolled under his foot. Can find one of anyone on youtube, making Heskey look like Pele, Carlos Villanueva like Maradona, Liam Feeney look like Ronaldinho and Elliott Ward like Franz Beckenbauer.

On the flip side, Forest fans in the main from what I can see rate him highly, want him to stay unless the fee is big, but mainly think he is not capable of being a lone striker, which is what he would be in our team. If hes a weak striker who can play wide who likes to get in behind, isnt that what Armstrong does?

I'm not saying we shouldnt sign him, hes clearly a talent but your argument has more holes in it than a golf course. Basing it on a video that can make anyone look good, and totally changing your opinion at the drop of a hat to ensure you appear happy about anything that is happening is always going to cause ridicule.

[Stuart]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

And Lenihan 

In the scheme of the debate, I’d include Irish with British or certainly home nations. Appreciating this won’t sit well with you as an Irishman. Put it another way, I don’t really see our Irish cousins as foreign.

[bboy]

22 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I don't think he would have to fail all that spectacularly to not be trading hands for 8 million again. It's a lot of money. He would only have to show he was below average or not develop much further and we would make a significant loss.

Get what you mean, if it's a failure of a number of seasons we'd lose a lot. But if we cut ties after one season having only scored 5-6 goals having started 25+ games (similar to Dominic Samuel last year) i'd still expect us to recoup most the fee. It's certainly less of a potential loss then spending 8m on a 28 year old who fails. Granted less likely to be a failure if you're buying someone with a track record.

 

Anyway, point of my original message was i wouldn't buy him. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, bboy said:

Get what you mean, if it's a failure of a number of seasons we'd lose a lot. But if we cut ties after one season having only scored 5-6 goals having started 25+ games (similar to Dominic Samuel last year) i'd still expect us to recoup most the fee. It's certainly less of a potential loss then spending 8m on a 28 year old who fails. Granted less likely to be a failure if you're buying someone with a track record.

 

Anyway, point of my original message was i wouldn't buy him. 

I would buy him...but not at 8 mil. Perhaps performance added bonuses on top of the 5 we put in and a sell-on fee. Even that seems over the top really but...

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

But you said you dont want us to sign players for lots of millions in June !

Why do you change your mind so much?

This is why the Chadometer came about !

Have an opinion and stick to it instead of changing it to suit the current management team !

Previosuly you did not want us spending millions - now you want us spending millions on 'potential' and a youtube clip! Do you not see why people get so wound up with your postings?

Already explained Jack. 

Dont like the answer dont bother quoting and replying to me. Couldnt care less tbh

[Oldgregg86]

8 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Saw him once against Arsenal and I remember he was bloody brilliantl

I thought I'd never heard of him until people mentioned the arsenal game. I remember him being awesome in that game albeit against a weakened arsenal side. It's the only game I've seen him play but I would be excited if Tony pulled it off. I don't think it will happen but never the less we can hope

[LDRover]

39 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I seen him a few times and you can see his talent and potential. 

Ive very happy with the Video I posted. Show a lot of ability and skills. His touch and pace was there to see. Those games were clips from Championship games and the video wasn't a short video but show more than goals like his pace, touch, footwork and his skills. 

If we sign him I would be extremely pleased and very happy

Yes, you've seen him a few times since we've been linked with him and , hey presto, suddenly rate him highly (thanks google and wiki). Bearing in mind your scattergun approach to mentioning potential targets just admit you'd never bloody heard of him.before.

As far as I'm concerned I'm 'keeping my powder dry' and I'll believe and critique any big cash signing if (a big if) and when I see it.

[chaddyrovers]

16 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Come on chaddy be honest..you had never heard of him until he was linked..you are like the rest of us..looking at youtube videos of him.  Unless you have your own personal scouting network

Sadly I had heard of him 2 seasons ago plus he had been linked with Liverpool in the past.

I watched alot of football every week. Always have and always will. 

 

15 minutes ago, Stuart said:

@chaddyrovers £8m just seems way over the top for a player with potential.

It also seems hugely unlikely for us to pay that much and would make us the third highest net spenders in the division after Stoke (£14m) and Forest (£15m - if we buy Brereton from them). Nobody else comes close.

(Source: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2/plus/?saison_id=2018&s_w=&leihe=0&intern=0)

The only way this one works is if we sell a player - with Dack being the most obvious.

It makes no sense at the prices being discussed.

I can deffo see your points and you make a good case.

The Championship has seen less clubs over spending and beyond their means. Like Sheff Wednesday and Birmingham City. 

Cant see Dack going anywhere at the minute.(dont be suggesting that cos it cause messageboard meltdown haha)

 

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Or we could sign a player that can ensure that we dont have to totally change the way we play when a key part of it, Graham, who is also incapable of playing all the time, is missing? You cant have everyone wanting to run beyond the ball, you need someone who the ball can stick to.

When did you see him? The video is only the good things hes done, not the times he fell on his arse, when he hit row Z or when the ball rolled under his foot. Can find one of anyone on youtube, making Heskey look like Pele, Carlos Villanueva like Maradona, Liam Feeney look like Ronaldinho and Elliott Ward like Franz Beckenbauer.

On the flip side, Forest fans in the main from what I can see rate him highly, want him to stay unless the fee is big, but mainly think he is not capable of being a lone striker, which is what he would be in our team. If hes a weak striker who can play wide who likes to get in behind, isnt that what Armstrong does?

I'm not saying we shouldnt sign him, hes clearly a talent but your argument has more holes in it than a golf course. Basing it on a video that can make anyone look good, and totally changing your opinion at the drop of a hat to ensure you appear happy about anything that is happening is always going to cause ridicule.

Or we can develop a different way to play so we dont have to just 1 way and not be over relient on Graham. With Brereton and Armstrong in the team we would have pace up front finally after years of non of it. From what I have seen see no reason why he cant play up front. Maybe its how we play him and deliver the service to him. Same with Armstrong. Look at Josh King. Never played properly here and we lost a good player there for peanuts. 

He has been playing championship football for the last 18 months so plenty of time to see him. Karanka seems to want rid of young players Brereton.and sold McKay. Want foriegn players in mainly

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, CraigF said:

How much do you think Gestede cost Boro or Hogan cost Villa? It was nearly 8 million for them both. 

Strikers have always come at a premium. 

Someone made a good point about his wages, he wouldn’t be on that much compared to other strikers in the division, so if you worked it out over the length of four years say?

There's a reason why " he wouldn't be on that much compared to other strikers in the division".