Loan Window

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Now that is a straw man!

I’m not putting words into anyone’s mouth, just asking if that was an option. I’m trying to illustrate the one player vs two argument (for the same money).

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We're not buying a picture to hang on the wall here. We're looking to strengthen the team with a view to staying in this division and possibly even vying for a play off position. Watching the video this lad likes to play out wide yet he's not a winger. He very rarely appears in a central position so he's not a centre forward. In that video I don't recall seeing him win challenged headers or even scoring a headed goal. What does he bring to the party that Armstrong doesn't ? The way we're set up to play I can't see us fitting both of Armstrong and this lad in the same team, anymore than I can see Armstrong and Gallagher in the same team.

Maybe his fan club can educate me as to a possible line up with him in it ?

I'd be delighted if we had real money to spend but I'd expect it to be spent in a sensible fashion and not a speculative gamble. We've got enough experience in the team, if we have got some money we want the sort of up and coming players that are emerging in this division. The Lenehans and Dacks of other teams.

 

A striker can move around and not just play within the width of the penalty box, He has movement, pace, good touch and can score goals. I posted to give people like yourself a chance to see him a player and the type of player he is. You mention he looks like he plays wide a lot but under Warburton he did but Karanka last season did play him as a main striker. Like we have been saying we don't have to long ball up to Graham every game or another target man but we can play a different ways and use Bererton or Armstrong as the main striker. Yes they are times when a pacey striker will be useful and similar a target man. 

I see no reason why Armstrong and Brereton cant play in the same team. 

24 minutes ago, DE. said:

I don't know much about Brereton but in all honesty if we have £8m to spend I'd rather we bring in a couple of players with that money to strengthen the CB/DM/Wing positions than spend it all on one youngster with potential. I appreciate the resale value argument but my main concern as a fan is having the strongest team possible, not looking to sell the player in the future for more money than we bought him for. I'm happy to leave that side of things to the number crunchers at the club. We went down the resale value route before under Bowyer and ultimately we made money on most of Bowyer's signings but also ended up relegated after Venky's pulled the plug on funding the club. There's no guarantee they won't do the same again in the near future so I'd rather have as strong of a team as possible and I still think we're a bit weak in terms of squad depth.

That said I'm not going to be complaining if Brereton comes in. I'd just personally prefer the money, if it is there, to be spent in a different way.

I can understand that point but I don't see centre Midfield as a problem and would rather give Travis a go than sign another centre midfielder. Yes I agree we need a centre back and winger but it does appear we have more money to sign than just the 8 mil on Brereton on other players 

17 minutes ago, Stuart said:

He has only played for England U19s and not even yet the U21s. If he is so good in the Championship, why can’t he get into Forest’s first team. 

If we sign him for £8m then he is going to have to be a first team starter every week and be scoring from day one.

That’s a big leap.

Regardless of the price, everyone in the team must performed and fit into the team ethos. No one has a right to be starter unless they are performing surely you agree? 

Why isn't Karanka playing him? I don't know. He went and sign a 30 year old striker in Grabban for 6 mil and probably 25-30k a week wages. Karanka went for experience over giving Brereton a full season in the side. 

13 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

So when we sign him you'd expect him to play at centre forward for us then ?

Yes I do. He will learn from Graham a lot and under Mowbray will improve as a player just like Dack has

[JacknOry]

2 hours ago, Jim Royle said:

The strategy of backing potential I find much more exciting than buying experienced journey men who have reached their peak and will therefore decrease in value.

TM has done that with Raya, Lenihan, Nyambe, Dack. Because he has a nucleus of experience with Charlie, Graham, Benno, Evans and sees filling the rest with young talent.

That works for me, and whilst he should have limits on the price he pays, I can see the logic.

This just could be a very exciting period of time for rovers fans.

The benefits of having a good academy. Lenihan, Nyambe, Raya and now Travis starting to get involved. Really excited to see how far these kids can go.

[chaddyrovers]

25 minutes ago, roversinmyblood said:

Hi are we still interested in Maddison?

Have we ever been link with him?

18 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Wonder if people would prefer Brereton or Maddison and Bauer?

Brereton

9 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Only just listened to Mowbray's interview.  Sounds like we may be moving away from Brer Rabbit and onto pastures new.  Also sounds like clubs are asking for more now our budget is out there. 

Edit:. encouraging hearing TM talking about replacing pace with pace.  A commodity we've been short of for years.

Could be other deals that not just Brereton since we are targeting 3 or 4 players

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Stuart said:

Why can’t that ‘proper coaching’ turn Nuttall into that player - or Rankin-Costello?

Another issue with signing a 19yo is that it is pretty damning towards our highly successful development squad, and indeed the club’s ability to develop players for our own first team.

Brereton and Nuttall look different types of players. Nuttall isn't going to leave defenders for dead with his pace which is what Brereton does for fun on those video clips. Rankin-Costello isn't known for his pace as far as I'm aware but I haven't seen him as much as you. Again though, from what I've read he sounds a completely different type of player too. It's pretty clear Mowbray wants someone with pace AND power up top,  in Armstrong and Graham you just have one or the other. 

[Neal]

Got to say I'm a bit uneasy about this Brereton one too. I'm more than happy to see us have some ambition but I think we could spend it better, though I'd love to be proven wrong. 

 

Still very much want to see Chapman back here, I just think he'd end up being excellent value for money. 

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

“Guaranteed resale value”? Nothing is guaranteed. Brereton will also want an improved wage. The more people try to justify gambling £8m on one unproven player the more I think we shouldn’t.

The main argument being made for signing this lad is that his value will increase massively. This is sales patter and the kind of argument put forward as a reason for buying the huge prospect, 22yo David Goodwillie. He cost £2.8m. (At the same time 26yo Danny Graham moved to Swansea for £3.5m. 27yo Beckford to Leicester, £3m). Goodwillie’s career didn’t quite work out as planned.

If we didn’t have this supposed budget of £8m and this hadn’t been leaked nobody would be contemplating this one. In fact, the same people would have (because they have) been rubbishing any demands to spend such money “because of FFP” and “Mowbray wants to build the team properly” (something he is quoted as saying) and loads of other reasons - because they have all been used in the past. All things I’m saying about this £8m would have been said. Suddenly because of recent budget rumours and the #trusttony movement it’s a no-brainer.

Some posters are starting to sound like a child trying to convince his parents that he “really needs” an iPhone X for his 11th birthday simply because his dad happened to have a wander round the Apple Store!

I’m not trying to justify anything. I’m just offering an informed alternative to your theory. I have no desire to change you or anyone. But if you can’t see that you are the dark to Chaddys light then god help you. 

Your previous post was decent until you omitted resale potentials. Just admit it.

Do yourself a favour and leave the condescending iPhone X chat mate. In addition to the constant ‘lol’s’ it’s really not becoming of your pragmatic, well informed but ultimately self made image.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Paul Mani

[Athlete]

26 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Stuart it's only this season he hasn't been starting, Karanka doesn't fancy him doesn't make him a bad player does it?

Karanka wasn't a fan of Rhodes either a player I know you rate.

On would I expect him to come in and start banging them in or be our undisputed no 1 striker from the get go?No but I think he has great potential and would eventually be.

Mowbray has spoken about it taking 3 or 4 Windows to get a squad together capable of putting in a sustained challenge for promotion,Brereton is being brought in with one eye on the future.

We have been told by the club and Mowbray that they are hoping to bring 3 or 4 in, if that's the case then i'l be happy  and excited with the Brereton signing.

If we only brought Brereton in for 8 million and nobody else then I would be scratching my head as i would feel the money would have been better used spread out 

 

Karanka doesn't fancy him doesnt make him a bad player or a bad manager.. Karanka got Rhodes to get them over the line of which he did that was the only reason he wanted him imo Rhodes then lost confidence but now he's scoring again for Norwich even though he missed a penalty last week.. 

Now 8 million for potential is a lot if as it seems we haven't much more for manoeuvre or the deal would have been done so it's a gamble 

[Stuart]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Brereton and Nuttall look different types of players. Nuttall isn't going to leave defenders for dead with his pace which is what Brereton does for fun on those video clips. Rankin-Costello isn't known for his pace as far as I'm aware but I haven't seen him as much as you. Again though, from what I've read he sounds a completely different type of player too. It's pretty clear Mowbray wants someone with pace AND power up top,  in Armstrong and Graham you just have one or the other. 

We all want a player with pace and power - expect most football managers do.

With Brereton we are gambling on IF and WHEN he might become that player. Right now it’s all about potential. That’s something this club isn’t short of. What we are short of is proven quality at this level.

And we are paying a finished article price - by Championship standards.

My argument is that we could get that for less.

[TruRover]

Personally I don't really see the need to bring in a centre midfielder as I am impressed with Travis every time I see him play and imo he should be ahead of Smallwood. Would like to see him really given the opportunity to make one of those CM roles his own.

Think we are a defender and attacker short as we need cover otherwise we become a bit reliant on Mulgrew and Graham who have both had injury problems in the past. I think all of us just want us to show abit of ambition and bring a couple of quality players in with options to buy. I am cautious about spend 8 million on one player, it a risk but it could pay off big time if all goes well for the lad. However it does make me wonder what we were doing during the summer not signing players like Mccgin and Edwards on cheap deals.

[Stuart]

6 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I’m not trying to justify anything. I’m just offering an informed alternative to your theory. I have no desire to change you or anyone. But if you can’t see that you are the dark to Chaddys light then god help you. 

Your previous post was decent until you omitted resale potentials. Just admit it.

Do yourself a favour and leave the condescending iPhone X chat mate. In addition to the constant ‘lol’s’ it’s really not becoming of your pragmatic, well informed but ultimately self made image. ?

Needlessly insulting and therefore not worthy of a response.

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, Athlete said:

Karanka doesn't fancy him doesnt make him a bad player or a bad manager.. Karanka got Rhodes to get them over the line of which he did that was the only reason he wanted him imo Rhodes then lost confidence but now he's scoring again for Norwich even though he missed a penalty last week.. 

Now 8 million for potential is a lot if as it seems we haven't much more for manoeuvre or the deal would have been done so it's a gamble 

Nobody is disputing it's a gamble I mean 8 million on any 19 year old would be.

But in today's market then even if Brereton is only average if he joins and we choose to move him on in a couple of years time we would still probably recoup most of what we paid out for him.

[Dreams of 1995]

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Brereton

Sometimes I think you just agree on things based on what you believe is going to happen. At one point you were saying Armstrong is the striker we need. No other option needed. Now we have him you'd honestly prefer it if we spent circa £8m on another striker when you could have Maddison out wide?

I know which one I'd prefer. 20+ goals spanning across 3 seasons + double figures assists for 2.5m or a 19 year old lad who has all the potential in the world but hasn't scored 10 goals yet for £8m.

Sorry and within that question you'd rather have Brereton than a defender like Baeur + Maddison despite championing the need for Beaur all summer. My God

It's a no brainer.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

We all want a player with pace and power - expect most football managers do.

With Brereton we are gambling on IF and WHEN he might become that player. Right now it’s all about potential. That’s something this club isn’t short of. What we are short of is proven quality at this level.

And we are paying a finished article price - by Championship standards.

My argument is that we could get that for less.

Brereton is a gamble and yes he has to improve his finsihing. You say we need proven quality at this level but this goes against Mowbrays thinking of building for the future. I agree with having experience and proven quality at this level but the squad has experience. Proven quality in the passed has also burnt us...ie Danny Murphy, Peter Whittingham. As I say every transfer is a gamble.

[islander200]

7 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Sometimes I think you just agree on things based on what you believe is going to happen. At one point you were saying Armstrong is the striker we need. No other option needed. Now we have him you'd honestly prefer it if we spent circa £8m on another striker when you could have Maddison out wide?

I know which one I'd prefer. 20+ goals spanning across 3 seasons + double figures assists for 2.5m or a 19 year old lad who has all the potential in the world but hasn't scored 10 goals yet for £8m.

Sorry and within that question you'd rather have Brereton than a defender like Baeur + Maddison despite championing the need for Beaur all summer. My God

It's a no brainer.

Maddison has been available for 2.5 million since the end of last season.

Nobody has taken him so you would have to start wondering if something is wrong with him.

If we were only spending 8 million on Brereton and not bringing anyone else in to improve the weaknesses in our squad then I would be left scratching my head and disappointed. 

But Mowbray has said we are in talks over 3 players so I don't expect Brereton to be the only signing made.

[RovingRover]

Mowbray's interview after the match. Expresses frustration at transfer leaks to the media.

[blueboy3333]

12 minutes ago, Stuart said:

We all want a player with pace and power - expect most football managers do.

With Brereton we are gambling on IF and WHEN he might become that player. Right now it’s all about potential. That’s something this club isn’t short of. What we are short of is proven quality at this level.

And we are paying a finished article price - by Championship standards.

My argument is that we could get that for less.

Well, no, he has pace and power now, that's the point. You can't 'gamble' on someone's physical qualities, they are either quick and strong or they aren't. He is. 

If we could get what Mowbray wants for less then he would have done by now. Anyway, the £8m figure came from The S*n. In their latest update on the saga they haven't even mentioned £8m, just that now the deal hinges on Rovers paying add-ons. 

All players are gambles. Rhodes was a gamble, he hadn't done it in the Championship and we spent £8m on him. At least Brereton can run the channels?

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, RovingRover said:

Mowbray's interview after the match. Expresses frustration at transfer leaks to the media.

I noticed that. Wonder what he meant about the “emails”...

[blueboy3333]

4 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

I'm getting married on Saturday.

Well take your phone because Rovers are playing. You can shout 'get in my son' and jump on the priest when Dack grabs the winner during your vows. 

[chaddyrovers]

19 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Sometimes I think you just agree on things based on what you believe is going to happen. At one point you were saying Armstrong is the striker we need. No other option needed. Now we have him you'd honestly prefer it if we spent circa £8m on another striker when you could have Maddison out wide?

I know which one I'd prefer. 20+ goals spanning across 3 seasons + double figures assists for 2.5m or a 19 year old lad who has all the potential in the world but hasn't scored 10 goals yet for £8m.

Sorry and within that question you'd rather have Brereton than a defender like Baeur + Maddison despite championing the need for Beaur all summer. My God

It's a no brainer.

We never been linked to Maddison and no one had bought him yet despite being available for 2.5 million. Why has no one bought him yet? 

Are we even looking to sign Bauer at this stage? 

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, blueboy3333 said:

Well take your phone because Rovers are playing. You can shout 'get in my son' and jump on the priest when Dack grabs the winner during your vows. 

Well lets hope it's that way around!

[Stuart]

4 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Well, no, he has pace and power now, that's the point. You can't 'gamble' on someone's physical qualities, they are either quick and strong or they aren't. He is. 

If we could get what Mowbray wants for less then he would have done by now. Anyway, the £8m figure came from The S*n. In their latest update on the saga they haven't even mentioned £8m, just that now the deal hinges on Rovers paying add-ons. 

All players are gambles. Rhodes was a gamble, he hadn't done it in the Championship and we spent £8m on him. At least Brereton can run the channels?

That seals it then. Sign him up.

Rhodes was a calculated gamble based on his record. This time we are gambling on the lad’s physique.

If we spend £4m plus add-ons up to an unlikely £8m then I’ll join the championing of these attributes and potential.

But if we spend £8m in instalments rising to £12m in add-ons then he should be under pressure to succeed from the off.

[47er]

35 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I’m not trying to justify anything. I’m just offering an informed alternative to your theory. I have no desire to change you or anyone. But if you can’t see that you are the dark to Chaddys light then god help you. 

Your previous post was decent until you omitted resale potentials. Just admit it.

Do yourself a favour and leave the condescending iPhone X chat mate. In addition to the constant ‘lol’s’ it’s really not becoming of your pragmatic, well informed but ultimately self made image.

Rather personal that post eh? No need for it.

[callumrovers]

25 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Needlessly insulting and therefore not worthy of a response.

He's not wrong though. You seem to have put yourself on a pedestal.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

Well lets hope it's that way around!

God is a Rover so you never know.