Loan Window

[Leonard Venkhater]

51 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

To question the signing because "no one has signed him already or are in for him now" is surely negative and should be labelled as such, no? 

Not really.

Given the context of such big numbers being discussed for "a prospect" and our own transfer history, it seems perfectly reasonable to wonder aloud about the absence of interest from other clubs. It is a messageboard, after all...

Anyway, labelling is usually problematic, in itself.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Leonard Venkhater

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 minutes ago, Lancaster Rover said:

I still don't see people questioning why nobody else is looking at him as being negative, it's a perfectly valid question. I don't think anybody is saying that because nobody else is interested we shouldn't sign him but it's unusual for a player who is touted at between 6-8 million pounds, English and young to only be courted by one club and a newly promoted club at that. That in itself doesn't mean we shouldn't sign him but it could inform the bigger picture of the pro's and con's.

What cons? All I see has happened the lad is that the manager doesn't fancy him. I don't see the fact we don't have competition for him(that we know of) as a concern. 

£8 million is huge money for us, so I would be cautious. I think it's safe to say that if we do sign him, we will all hope 200% that he is a success. 

[Drover]

48 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I know its HITC but still an interesting proposition. Suits Spuds business approach.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/08/21/do-tottenham-cant-miss-chance-to-sign-nottingham-forests-ben-bre/page/1/

Weird article isn't it. It's almost like an opinion piece. It talks as if he was sold for 10-12 mil. Fact was big clubs didn't go in for him so he probably wasn't worth that at the time. They obviously found better value.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

Not really.

Given the context of such big numbers being discussed for "a prospect" and our own transfer history, it seems perfectly reasonable to wonder aloud about the absence interest from other clubs. It is a messageboard, after all...

Anyway, labelling is usually problematic, in itself.

It was reported United and Liverpool were interested, but when those links were mentioned the response from some was "take that with a pinch of salt", "if they wanted him they would have signed him", "Top 6 clubs are linked with all good youngsters who come on the scene".. I bet if Wigan were about to sign him, the discussion would be how he is an amazing player, Liverpool and United wanted him, why can't we compete, etc etc

Anyways, at least nobody has been on asking who his agent is...yet 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Nixon tweeted the other night that the Brearton deal would work out costing us less than a deal for Gallagher. 

[Neal]

1 hour ago, Lancaster Rover said:

Another in agreement here. He seems a nice lad and I feel genuinely sorry for him with his injury problems at a time when he was starting to make his mark however with the step up in quality and the trio of Dack, Palmer and Armstrong working so well together Chapman would be a bit part player at best IMO.

Bennett is playing attacking mid still... Would personally prefer Chapman in there and move Bennett into DM personally. Chapman is a potential match winner. Him, Dacky and Palmer behind Armstrong would frighten the life out of teams. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Neal

[Lancaster Rover]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What cons? All I see has happened the lad is that the manager doesn't fancy him. I don't see the fact we don't have competition for him(that we know of) as a concern. 

£8 million is huge money for us, so I would be cautious. I think it's safe to say that if we do sign him, we will all hope 200% that he is a success. 

There are several cons, his price, his age, his inexperience, lack of goals, lack of being wanted by his current manager the flip side is that a number of those also be seen as pro's but then that is the point of critiquing a potential signing, especially one which could equal our transfer record and match about 6 years worth of total team investment.

[Lancaster Rover]

10 minutes ago, Neal said:

Bennett is playing attacking mid still... Would personally prefer Chapman in there and move Bennett into DM personally. Chapman is a potential match winner. Him, Dacky and Palmer behind Armstrong would frighten the life out of teams. 

Having Bennett as an attacking mid works for our shape when we don't have the ball though IMO, he acts as an extra man in there. Whilst I think he is better in a more defensive position by moving him there you're sacrificing protection for the full back/wing back. Defence is a massive development area for Chapman, again, IMO. Dack, Palmer, Armstrong and Chapman would leave us very light in terms of tackles and ability to win the ball back high up the pitch, putting a hell of a lot of pressure on the remaining midfielders.  

[Pedro]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Name me a top player that hasn't missed a sitter. Two of the best goal scorers I ever saw were Jimmy Greaves and Denis Law. I've seen both of them miss from two yards out . Greavsey hit the bar with an header when he was stood on the goal line !

Chris Brown? 

 

Personally, I don't remember him having a shot for Rovers.

[Leonard Venkhater]

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It was reported United and Liverpool were interested, but when those links were mentioned the response from some was "take that with a pinch of salt", "if they wanted him they would have signed him", "Top 6 clubs are linked with all good youngsters who come on the scene".. I bet if Wigan were about to sign him, the discussion would be how he is an amazing player, Liverpool and United wanted him, why can't we compete, etc etc

Anyways, at least nobody has been on asking who his agent is...yet 

 

You think the agent question is not an issue with Rovers anymore?

I honestly don't know.

[Mark45]

Why Tony now have 9m Euros budget ? Venky have taken money but never given for players in past ?

Why snap decision now?

 

[JHRover]

4 hours ago, Biz said:

See this is an example where I struggle to take your posts seriously on Tony. Maybe it’s a bit of me, in a similar way finding something to be “antagonised” by, echoing another poster who struggles with “trust tony”... maybe it’s the meds from breaking my arm yesterday or...;

Maybe it’s this incessant need to find some sort of scandal, cock up, conspiracy, change of tact, poor decision, mistake etc? That’s not suggesting you can’t be negative either, which seems the standard reply to anyone pointing out these strange assumptions/opinions. Examples;

It’s the assumption that we have some decent fees because of our “supposed kind owners”, facetiously put across somehow adding gravitas to “the s*n” Nixon “Chicken money” story, which we both know is likely BS jazzed up for a dig.  

Its the blurring the lines between the meaning of the words “must get”, “would like” - putting your expectations on Tony’s comments about his wishes but ignoring the other comments from him and others that the fact the markets completely evolving, difficult and an absolute agent minefield.

Not so long ago, you would’ve championed GB or someone else for being so pragmatic and sensible, not bowing to agents, and not putting a huge chunk of our money (be it transfer fee or wage) into a rushed transfer or a player with a “Leon best” attitude. Especially after the Kean/Anderson/Coyle debacles.

Tony said himself he hopes we don’t have to go through to Christmas, with just this depth, most likely because of an injury as you allude to but let’s not simply assume or say that’s because we chose “not to spend” or have wage concerns - especially when we are seeing (and have recently felt the drawbacks from) first hand what agents do to clubs trying to bring new players in.

If I had a suggestion or a criticism to make after this window, perhaps what Gary Neville said on Monday about Mourinho is true - maybe we need a DOF, a sporting director or simply some extra structure within the club to help these scenarios. 

  

 

Not sure whether it is correct that I am constantly trying to find some sort of cock up or conspiracy or that our activity to date suggests that there is. I'm only going off what the manager has said compared to what has happened and now what appears to be a slow shift in his comments in the press.

If Mowbray had come out in July and said he didn't think we needed to add to the squad and that he felt one or two additions would do then I'd accept that. On his head be it. But he hasn't said that, so it is only natural the people wonder what is going on when we're significantly short of where we said we would be.

Not sure what 'not bowing to agents' means. The way I see it the closer we get to deadline day without necessary reinforcements the MORE likely it is we will bow to others demands and cough up a bit more, otherwise we're taking a huge risk. Just about every other club in this league has spent more or added more players than we have this summer - have they all been taken advantage of by agents?

Yes we've been fleeced in the past but surely with this new competent structure in place such a thing couldn't ever happen again? Also in the past the club was being run by agent(s) which was the reason we were taken advantage of.

We had a Director of Football. That lasted for 1 transfer window where we signed 1 player on loan so I don't think it actually matters.

Another example of what I'm getting at is this talk about Xmas and 'hoping' we don't have to go through until then without these reinforcements. Just another example of delaying and pushing it back - a month or so ago the very suggestion of making do with what we have until January would have been met with uproar with the manager saying he expected 4-5 quality additions in the building, yet now as we enter the final few days of the loan window with no additions the thought of making do and waiting until January is gradually being put out there as a possibility and entering peoples minds as a possibility. It should never have reached that stage.

No doubt when January does come round we'll get the same talk - its a bad time to do business, not many other clubs do business, agents are making too much money, clubs are asking for too much money, better off saving the money and waiting until the summer when the better deals are available - all might be true but that doesn't help put together a squad with sufficient depth and quality.

The 'choosing not to spend' line comes from the club - last January and since then Waggott boasted of the resources made available by the owners and either Mowbray or Waggott said that they chose not to spend all the cash available. So I don't think it is unreasonable to expect something similar to occur this summer - tell everyone that we had cash to spend and tried to get deals done but just couldn't manage it. Already I've seen bucket loads of messages and tweets from people saying how Venkys now 'get it' and are spending heavily in backing the manager and yet at the moment the only basis for that is rumour and talk, not bodies in the building.

[RoversClitheroe]

8 minutes ago, Mark45 said:

Why Tony now have 9m Euros budget ? Venky have taken money but never given for players in past ?

Why snap decision now?

 

Closer to the premier league pot of money 

[AAK]

22 minutes ago, Mark45 said:

Why Tony now have 9m Euros budget ? Venky have taken money but never given for players in past ?

Why snap decision now?

 

Guess would be something to do with this (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/15289348.Venky_s_launch_Rovers_overview_by_bringing_in_accountancy_giants_KPMG_and_Deloitte/).

Deloitte come in, tell them the only way you are going to make this a profitable business and a success is by putting up a big outlay now and get back to the top flight, and within a season you'll have made all your money back and have some change. Mowbray last summer will have said, I can manage on this budget this season but next season it will need to be more and if we don't manage it we are still brining in young talent who will undoubtedly sell on for a bigger fee ala Dack, Rothwell, Davenport, Brereton, Bell and the likes of academy products Nyambe, Lenihan and Raya.

If we don't go up this season, but manage to have a relatively good season, we will have some very valuable footballers on our books;

Raya, Nyambe and Lenihan all capable of bringing a fee of £5million plus as a minimum (£15million just from the academy)

Dack - £15-20 million

Armstrong £7 million plus, if he bags a few goals (doubling his purchase price)

Rothwell and Davenport probably at the very worst a couple of million each, far more than their purchase price

and a few more who we may get a few quid for, and any more new signings.

Edited August 22, 2018 by AAK

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

Not sure whether it is correct that I am constantly trying to find some sort of cock up or conspiracy or that our activity to date suggests that there is. I'm only going off what the manager has said compared to what has happened and now what appears to be a slow shift in his comments in the press.

If Mowbray had come out in July and said he didn't think we needed to add to the squad and that he felt one or two additions would do then I'd accept that. On his head be it. But he hasn't said that, so it is only natural the people wonder what is going on when we're significantly short of where we said we would be.

Not sure what 'not bowing to agents' means. The way I see it the closer we get to deadline day without necessary reinforcements the MORE likely it is we will bow to others demands and cough up a bit more, otherwise we're taking a huge risk. Just about every other club in this league has spent more or added more players than we have this summer - have they all been taken advantage of by agents?

Yes we've been fleeced in the past but surely with this new competent structure in place such a thing couldn't ever happen again? Also in the past the club was being run by agent(s) which was the reason we were taken advantage of.

We had a Director of Football. That lasted for 1 transfer window where we signed 1 player on loan so I don't think it actually matters.

Another example of what I'm getting at is this talk about Xmas and 'hoping' we don't have to go through until then without these reinforcements. Just another example of delaying and pushing it back - a month or so ago the very suggestion of making do with what we have until January would have been met with uproar with the manager saying he expected 4-5 quality additions in the building, yet now as we enter the final few days of the loan window with no additions the thought of making do and waiting until January is gradually being put out there as a possibility and entering peoples minds as a possibility. It should never have reached that stage.

No doubt when January does come round we'll get the same talk - its a bad time to do business, not many other clubs do business, agents are making too much money, clubs are asking for too much money, better off saving the money and waiting until the summer when the better deals are available - all might be true but that doesn't help put together a squad with sufficient depth and quality.

The 'choosing not to spend' line comes from the club - last January and since then Waggott boasted of the resources made available by the owners and either Mowbray or Waggott said that they chose not to spend all the cash available. So I don't think it is unreasonable to expect something similar to occur this summer - tell everyone that we had cash to spend and tried to get deals done but just couldn't manage it. Already I've seen bucket loads of messages and tweets from people saying how Venkys now 'get it' and are spending heavily in backing the manager and yet at the moment the only basis for that is rumour and talk, not bodies in the building.

"only going off what he has said in relation to what has happened" - hence blurring the lines between "want" and "would like". The word "expect" was used for the new contracts at the same time as the "business done early" stuff - which to me simply points to you picking and choosing what to "expect", and which of the managers words you wish to base your expectations on - did you expect us to keep all our best players this summer and add more than 3/4 potential quality additions? I didn't expect anything past that personally, regardless of the noise from the club. As I said - Want/Would like - very different sentiments.

He said he didn't want to listen to agents or words to that effect, so how do you come to the conclusion that we will get stung if it gets any later? I thought the problem would be not bringing in the "4 or 5" you've constantly reminded us of since Armstrong signed? Not having to be desperate come August 30th... Which goalposts are we sticking to?

For example - only this morning: 'I'd also be quite alarmed if after all this summer and all the talk about budgets, new recruitment, waiting for our targets etc. that we ended up doing the Chapman one. Mowbray has suggested we're looking at a higher calibre more experienced group of people so if after all this time we bring back on loan a lad who was here last season who Mowbray didn't fancy to start back then it won't tally."

Didn't fancy? You mean utilised as part of a squad and saw potential for a long term potential target? Lad got injured twice last season, and certain players have an impact off the bench. You KNOW that but you seemingly avoid the reality that Chapman might be the best we could do for the wing when other targets are costing wages out of our reach. He also said Chapman/Armstrong could be 4th/5th target then went and signed AA a few days later - Mind games perhaps? Maybe better to try reading between the lines with some of his comments too?

As for the DOF comment, surely you don't need me to point out to you one transfer window, one specific DOF = the outcome proves they are useless? I had a car once, it broke down - all cars are pointless.

Finally - I agree they said they saved some budget, hence why we added more signings in January after Mowbrays "the well is not dry" comment last summer. When you say "tell everyone we had cash to spend but couldn't manage it" - are you suggesting this is merely a front? a cock up? a conspiracy? Thats exactly the tone that I cannot understand from you. If its me reading it wrongly, I apologise.

[Neal]

37 minutes ago, Lancaster Rover said:

Having Bennett as an attacking mid works for our shape when we don't have the ball though IMO, he acts as an extra man in there. Whilst I think he is better in a more defensive position by moving him there you're sacrificing protection for the full back/wing back. Defence is a massive development area for Chapman, again, IMO. Dack, Palmer, Armstrong and Chapman would leave us very light in terms of tackles and ability to win the ball back high up the pitch, putting a hell of a lot of pressure on the remaining midfielders.  

Fair comment but although Bennett did set up Dack at the weekend I feel he's as limited going forward as Chapman is defensively... Depending on who we're playing either could be a better option.  Although Chapman might not be quite as good in the tackle, he'll be quicker to press defenders higher up the pitch and force mistakes than Bennett IMO. Either way, as a starter or as an impact sub whilst he develops... I'd still like us to bring him in. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 minutes ago, AAK said:

Guess would be something to do with this (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/15289348.Venky_s_launch_Rovers_overview_by_bringing_in_accountancy_giants_KPMG_and_Deloitte/).

Deloitte come in, tell them the only way you are going to make this a profitable business and a success is by putting up a big outlay now and get back to the top flight, and within a season you'll have made all your money back and have some change. Mowbray last summer will have said, I can manage on this budget this season but next season it will need to be more and if we don't manage it we are still brining in young talent who will undoubtedly sell on for a bigger fee ala Dack, Rothwell, Davenport, Brereton, Bell and the likes of academy products Nyambe, Lenihan and Raya.

If we don't go up this season, but manage to have a relatively good season, we will have some very valuable footballers on our books;

Raya, Nyambe and Lenihan all capable of bringing a fee of £5million plus as a minimum (£15million just from the academy)

Dack - £15-20 million

Armstrong £7 million plus, if he bags a few goals (doubling his purchase price)

Rothwell and Davenport probably at the very worst a couple of million each, far more than their purchase price

and a few more who we may get a few quid for, and any more new signings.

Irish hat on here, I reckon Lenihan will be worth £10 million plus after this season. 

Hopefully Balaji doesn't see your post  

Edited August 22, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Lancaster Rover said:

Another in agreement here. He seems a nice lad and I feel genuinely sorry for him with his injury problems at a time when he was starting to make his mark however with the step up in quality and the trio of Dack, Palmer and Armstrong working so well together Chapman would be a bit part player at best IMO.

with that trio working so well wouldn't any signing we are likely to make  be a bit part player.

[AAK]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Irish hat on here, I reckon Lenihan will be worth 10 million plus after this season 

Ye probably pal. Was just going off minimal valuations, but with Lenihan probably right pal.

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

"only going off what he has said in relation to what has happened" - hence blurring the lines between "want" and "would like". The word "expect" was used for the new contracts at the same time as the "business done early" stuff - which to me simply points to you picking and choosing what to "expect", and which of the managers words you wish to base your expectations on - did you expect us to keep all our best players this summer and add more than 3/4 potential quality additions? I didn't expect anything past that personally, regardless of the noise from the club. As I said - Want/Would like - very different sentiments.

He said he didn't want to listen to agents or words to that effect, so how do you come to the conclusion that we will get stung if it gets any later? I thought the problem would be not bringing in the "4 or 5" you've constantly reminded us of since Armstrong signed? Not having to be desperate come August 30th... Which goalposts are we sticking to?

For example - only this morning: 'I'd also be quite alarmed if after all this summer and all the talk about budgets, new recruitment, waiting for our targets etc. that we ended up doing the Chapman one. Mowbray has suggested we're looking at a higher calibre more experienced group of people so if after all this time we bring back on loan a lad who was here last season who Mowbray didn't fancy to start back then it won't tally."

Didn't fancy? You mean utilised as part of a squad and saw potential for a long term potential target? Lad got injured twice last season, and certain players have an impact off the bench. You KNOW that but you seemingly avoid the reality that Chapman might be the best we could do for the wing when other targets are costing wages out of our reach. He also said Chapman/Armstrong could be 4th/5th target then went and signed AA a few days later - Mind games perhaps? Maybe better to try reading between the lines with some of his comments too?

As for the DOF comment, surely you don't need me to point out to you one transfer window, one specific DOF = the outcome proves they are useless? I had a car once, it broke down - all cars are pointless.

Finally - I agree they said they saved some budget, hence why we added more signings in January after Mowbrays "the well is not dry" comment last summer. When you say "tell everyone we had cash to spend but couldn't manage it" - are you suggesting this is merely a front? a cock up? a conspiracy? Thats exactly the tone that I cannot understand from you. If its me reading it wrongly, I apologise.

I'm not blurring any lines. It doesn't matter whether the manager has said he wants or likes or expects. Fact is he set the bar at 4 or 5 additions and so far we've had 0. That tells me that things haven't gone to plan. Mowbray didn't need to say 4 - 5 yet did say that which suggests at the very least that is what he wanted or expected to happen. Take your pick which, doesn't matter. What matters is we're short on where we wanted/needed to be.

Yes I did expect us to keep our best players. The only 1 I worried about was Lenihan but then again he was injured most of last season so clubs will wait and see. Likewise they will wait and see on Dack to see how he copes in the Championship against the decent sides.

The noise the club has made has been of a big budget, exciting signings and at least 4 more following the Armstrong capture. If they didn't expect to deliver that or weren't intending on achieving that then they shouldn't have said it. The options are that they said it to flog tickets or that they expected it to happen but for some reason it hasn't.

As the deadline approaches selling clubs will be hesitant to let players go as they won't have time to replace them. Agents will go in high on demands knowing we've not much time to negotiate them down. That's why I'm concerned about talk of moving onto different targets after all this time. Clubs and agents can name a price and tell us to take it or leave it. We can do the same to them. But it could just as easily see prices go up then come down, depends whether we're more desperate than they are.

In terms of your final paragraph - it is very easy to put an impression out there is money to spend, and to tell people that money is going to be spent or can be spent, only to turn around after and say 'we tried but couldn't'. The beneficiaries of this are Venkys, who win credibility in the eyes of supporters for 'trying' to invest and improve the club. You're probably reading me correctly. I'm suggesting that there's a massive difference between talking of spending money and actually doing it.

I can talk about buying a Ferrari, go to a showroom, make an offer, then go home and tell all my friends that I'm interested in buying one and I've made an offer. But until that offer gets accepted and then I overcome the hurdle of finding £200k down the back of the sofa its nothing more than talk.

Less talk, more walk. I'll credit the owners when the bodies are here and given their track record I'll believe multi-million bids when I see the outcome of those.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, AAK said:

Ye probably pal. Was just going off minimal valuations, but with Lenihan probably right pal.

Its great to see, especially with Nyambe, Raya and Lenihan. Could nearly add Travis into the £5 million category if he sticks around the 1st team this season. 

I think Mowbray is key in keeping this bunch together

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

I'm not blurring any lines. It doesn't matter whether the manager has said he wants or likes or expects. Fact is he set the bar at 4 or 5 additions and so far we've had 0. That tells me that things haven't gone to plan. Mowbray didn't need to say 4 - 5 yet did say that which suggests at the very least that is what he wanted or expected to happen. Take your pick which, doesn't matter. What matters is we're short on where we wanted/needed to be.

Yes I did expect us to keep our best players. The only 1 I worried about was Lenihan but then again he was injured most of last season so clubs will wait and see. Likewise they will wait and see on Dack to see how he copes in the Championship against the decent sides.

The noise the club has made has been of a big budget, exciting signings and at least 4 more following the Armstrong capture. If they didn't expect to deliver that or weren't intending on achieving that then they shouldn't have said it. The options are that they said it to flog tickets or that they expected it to happen but for some reason it hasn't.

As the deadline approaches selling clubs will be hesitant to let players go as they won't have time to replace them. Agents will go in high on demands knowing we've not much time to negotiate them down. That's why I'm concerned about talk of moving onto different targets after all this time. Clubs and agents can name a price and tell us to take it or leave it. We can do the same to them. But it could just as easily see prices go up then come down, depends whether we're more desperate than they are.

In terms of your final paragraph - it is very easy to put an impression out there is money to spend, and to tell people that money is going to be spent or can be spent, only to turn around after and say 'we tried but couldn't'. The beneficiaries of this are Venkys, who win credibility in the eyes of supporters for 'trying' to invest and improve the club. You're probably reading me correctly. I'm suggesting that there's a massive difference between talking of spending money and actually doing it.

I can talk about buying a Ferrari, go to a showroom, make an offer, then go home and tell all my friends that I'm interested in buying one and I've made an offer. But until that offer gets accepted and then I overcome the hurdle of finding £200k down the back of the sofa its nothing more than talk.

Less talk, more walk. I'll credit the owners when the bodies are here and given their track record I'll believe multi-million bids when I see the outcome of those.

I think it’s quite simple. They have their targets and if they can land them they will if they can’t then we go with what we’ve got. It’s obvious that they are not prepared to have just anyone come in. They seem to be studying personalities as well as ability.

Will I be disappointed if we don’t get anyone? Absolutely. Will I believe in the conspiracy theories about us actually having no money etc? Absolutely not.

 

[JBiz]

@JHRover -  at least I got my answer. Being so obsessed with the Rao’s necessity to be “liked” when the reality is they probably don’t give two shiny shits about what you or I think, astounds me. After all this time. 

You see Mowbrays words as a con job. I see it as an ambitious manager trying to put an exciting team together. The point you’re lacking, he’s already achieved 3 quarters of it in most people’s eyes, yet you’d seemingly mistrust and hold every wish, like and “expectation” to account.

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Biz

[USABlue]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I know its HITC but still an interesting proposition. Suits Spuds business approach.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/08/21/do-tottenham-cant-miss-chance-to-sign-nottingham-forests-ben-bre/page/1/

Mischief making?

[old darwen blue]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

What an odd point scoring post.

Oh you mean the post that so far has five like comments and four thank you’s?

I suspect you antagonise more folk than a comment from a foreign fan whose first language is probably not English.