Ben Brereton Diaz

[Stuart]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

What lol ? 

Well something had to smoke you out of the stone you were hiding under!

Good to see you back.  

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I really struggle with this theory that Brereton has suddenly turned his performance level around because there are no fans.

As others have touched on, Brereton has not been unfairly abused by the fans, in fact we have been very patient with him. No need for our own fans to make us out as a raging mob.

Also, if the difference is down to playing behind closed doors then the improvement is worthless if as soon as crowds return, he will return to being an incompetent clown!

That theory does him a disservice anyway. His application and effort have gone up lots, the change in style and formation seems to suit him and have found a role for him and he looks like he has bulked up. All more constructive explanations as to the changes in his game.

When things aren't going well having a crowd leads to nerves. Whether they are critical or not. It's straight forward really. 

Not having a crowd helped Brereton,  but obviously that can't be proven, unless he says it. 

Now that he is up and running I would expect that to continue, but not having a crowd came just at the right time for him. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

When things aren't going well having a crowd leads to nerves. Whether they are critical or not. It's straight forward really. 

Not having a crowd helped Brereton,  but obviously that can't be proven, unless he says it. 

Now that he is up and running I would expect that to continue, but not having a crowd came just at the right time for him. 

 

10 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

I think there being no crowd has hugely helped Brereton. It is way less pressure without fans in the stadium. I think the majority of fans were very supportive of him but I'm sure he could sense the frustration everytime he got the ball and mis-controlled it or gave it away (which was pretty much every time he was on the ball!).

His rise over the past 6 months has been incredible. We'll struggle to keep hold of him in the summer at this rate. In fact, the whole of our front three prob won't be here next season if we don't get promoted. 

If his improvement is largely down to the lack of crowd, surely as soon as they return he will go back to what he was as soon as we return? That could be a worry in that case, being good in an empty stadium looking longer term is a fairly worthless trait! Its impossible to allocate how much if any of the improvement is down to that though, I look at a physical change in him looking far stronger, I consider the change in style that we have adopted and the positional change of him being left of a 3, and also much better application and desire, maybe he has realised that he needs to do more. He also changed the game in the Swansea home game just before the lockdown so maybe the lack of crowds and his upturn have minimal correlation and indeed he would have improved regardless?

I certainly think it is too soon to be saying things like we will struggle to keep him in the summer. He has that 7m price tag on him still which will probably mean that we wont consider anything under that and there is no way that anyone will bid that sort of money for him at this time or indeed unless his contribution improves further still. With Armstrong, his departure may be inevitable if we dont go up simply because of the sheer number of goals, if Brereton chips in as he has started to do, then im not sure that he will necessarily become impossible to keep.

[Ossydave]

Its all just speculative opinions to be honest on if having fans there has influenced Ben's form or not. Until he comes out and admits that himself it'll remain that way. The fans never rounded on him en masse but shouts of "Brereton you're fucking shit" were common, distinctly remember one at Newcastle away in the cup as soon as he came on the pitch. However, a few heckles can't really be blamed. Anyway whats done is done and hopefully everyone moves on from a spell which everyone will admit, including himself, was very underwhelming. 

My personal opinion is that the manager showing faith with consistent starts is the biggest factor. Pissing about coming off the bench being shunted about in unfamiliar positions wasn't working out at all. I also think current personnel in the team have helped, he seems to have an understanding with Elliott and Rothwell especially.

He looks noticeably happier and a Brereton with bags of confidence playing as he is will be a huge asset this season and hopefully many to come.

Ironically on the subject of fan influence,  I think having fans there right now would have a further positive impact on his development, who wouldn't want their name sang aloud in appreciation?

[47er]

Brereton in the LT praising the fans for their support! LOL!

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18902132.ben-brereton-chile-talk-social-media-support-rovers-form/

[JBiz]

23 hours ago, Stuart said:

It’s a myth that has become fact.

Mowbray is infallible, Venkys were misled and fans are to blame for any bad stuff that happens. If we’d all have just backed Kean and saw what he was trying to do we wouldn’t be in the mess.

Didn’t think things had changed much!

Couldn’t resist coming back purely to read this thread - such a contentious issue yet any big investment was always going to be important.

Forget old discussion - this season this lad looks a complete different proposition.

Whatever reason that is - I like to think its simply down to age, experience, maturity and opportunity.

Plenty of room to improve still yet nice to see a major investment developing!

[Dreams of 1995]

On 26/11/2020 at 18:49, roversfan99 said:

I really struggle with this theory that Brereton has suddenly turned his performance level around because there are no fans.

As others have touched on, Brereton has not been unfairly abused by the fans, in fact we have been very patient with him. No need for our own fans to make us out as a raging mob.

Also, if the difference is down to playing behind closed doors then the improvement is worthless if as soon as crowds return, he will return to being an incompetent clown!

???

Couldn't write it

[roversfan99]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

???

Couldn't write it

My post was downplaying the correlation between empty stadiums and his improvement, that comment you highlighted is out of context.

Although as I am sure you are aware, even if I did genuinely mean that he used to play like "an incompetent clown" on an internet messageboard, that is not abuse nor would it affect him in a stadium.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

My post was downplaying the correlation between empty stadiums and his improvement, that comment you highlighted is out of context.

Although as I am sure you are aware, even if I did genuinely mean that he used to play like "an incompetent clown" on an internet messageboard, that is not abuse nor would it affect him in a stadium.

It was a touch of tongue in cheek humour

But what I would say is that if you genuinely didn't mean "he used to play like an incompetent clown" why would you say "he will return to being an incompetent clown"

No need for a reply, just apologise to Brereton next time you see him please 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

It was a touch of tongue in cheek humour

But what I would say is that if you genuinely didn't mean "he used to play like an incompetent clown" why would you say "he will return to being an incompetent clown"

No need for a reply, just apologise to Brereton next time you see him please 

I would but I think he will speed past me like he keeps doing to defenders at the moment.

[Dreams of 1995]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I would but I think he will speed past me like he keeps doing to defenders at the moment.

Found the ability to turn over the summer

 

Last year it would bounce around his ankles for a few seconds before he fell over. Change in fortunes this year means those bouncing balls fall for you. Like a new man and long may it continue. 
 

I personally think he’s been one of our best players this season 

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Found the ability to turn over the summer

 

Last year it would bounce around his ankles for a few seconds before he fell over. Change in fortunes this year means those bouncing balls fall for you. Like a new man and long may it continue. 
 

I personally think he’s been one of our best players this season 

Armstrong first, Brererton second for me!

[Dreams of 1995]

14 hours ago, JBiz said:

Armstrong first, Brererton second for me!

I don't know about Armstrong being thee best. Will be controversial because of the amount of goals he has but do think he stops a lot of our attacks by always looking for the shot. Works well for him but if he played a few more wide passes we may get more goals. He's up there though no doubt about it.

I think Rothwell and Holtby are the game changers. If they are on the same pitch I feel confident we can win. Lose one and the replacements don't quite cut the mustard and we find ourselves losing the midfield battle.

[Blue blood]

On 26/11/2020 at 21:01, roversfan99 said:

 

If his improvement is largely down to the lack of crowd, surely as soon as they return he will go back to what he was as soon as we return? That could be a worry in that case, being good in an empty stadium looking longer term is a fairly worthless trait! Its impossible to allocate how much if any of the improvement is down to that though, I look at a physical change in him looking far stronger, I consider the change in style that we have adopted and the positional change of him being left of a 3, and also much better application and desire, maybe he has realised that he needs to do more. He also changed the game in the Swansea home game just before the lockdown so maybe the lack of crowds and his upturn have minimal correlation and indeed he would have improved regardless?

I certainly think it is too soon to be saying things like we will struggle to keep him in the summer. He has that 7m price tag on him still which will probably mean that we wont consider anything under that and there is no way that anyone will bid that sort of money for him at this time or indeed unless his contribution improves further still. With Armstrong, his departure may be inevitable if we dont go up simply because of the sheer number of goals, if Brereton chips in as he has started to do, then im not sure that he will necessarily become impossible to keep.

Think this sums up my thoughts on him too. IF the crowd thing affects him that much it would be a real worry as there will be times when he/the team are playing poorly in the future (don't need to be Nostradamus for that prediction) and if having a restless crowd affects him that much, he really will struggle. 

For me, the formation change is key. It suits his strengths and hides his limitations. He's also not done it against any other clubs, and is a bit of a flat track bully. Both the not performing in other formations and not doing it against bigger clubs both mean he won't be top of anyone's shopping list anytime soon. But blimey, just having a player who causes weaker teams problems is streets ahead of where he was.

I guess it's similar with Gally too. Right formation and position, he looks ok. Or as an impact sub vs tiring legs his physicality gives him an edge. Neither are particularly great but when we use them appropriately they can certainly contribute.      

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Did he miss a sitter today when clean through?

[philipl]

4 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Did he miss a sitter today when clean through?

It was a bad attempt - not even an attempt given how wide he put it - but when you are left of goal 8 yards out with a defender on your right shoulder and keeper perfectly positioned it is a damned good chance but hardly a sitter.

He had made it himself winning the ball originally and running 30 yards if I remember correctly but still the end effort was a real "oh Ben!" moment.

Ben's reputation for falling over is costing him and us. He was given a meaty shove in the back in the penalty area earlier and nothing was given or appealed for.

[philipl]

Was looking for the Mowbray quote on the Brereton signing (and haven't found it) and saw these-

https://readliverpoolfc.com/2018/01/11/liverpool-favourites-sign-ben-brereton-forest/    £15m

https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/07/liverpool-failed-in-january-transfer-move-for-manchester-united-target-ben-brereton-6433908/

 

Forest supporters are following Ben very closely even now.

This written less than a year ago shows what a stunning turnaround we have seen 

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-transfers-brereton-gallagher-17517877

 

Looks like Chaddy will be proved right:

  On 29/08/2018 at 17:23, chaddyrovers said:

I think 7 mil is steal. Still cant believe Forest sold him tbh. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by philipl

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16604958.rovers-boss-tony-mowbray-new-signing-ben-brereton/

@philipl what Mowbray actually said. No mention of a 'separate pot' for young players. 

“I think it's just too good an opportunity for us to turn down. We had the money to spend and when you've got it, let's spend it"

Edited November 29, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 26/11/2020 at 21:01, roversfan99 said:

 

If his improvement is largely down to the lack of crowd, surely as soon as they return he will go back to what he was as soon as we return? That could be a worry in that case, being good in an empty stadium looking longer term is a fairly worthless trait! Its impossible to allocate how much if any of the improvement is down to that though, I look at a physical change in him looking far stronger, I consider the change in style that we have adopted and the positional change of him being left of a 3, and also much better application and desire, maybe he has realised that he needs to do more. He also changed the game in the Swansea home game just before the lockdown so maybe the lack of crowds and his upturn have minimal correlation and indeed he would have improved regardless?

I certainly think it is too soon to be saying things like we will struggle to keep him in the summer. He has that 7m price tag on him still which will probably mean that we wont consider anything under that and there is no way that anyone will bid that sort of money for him at this time or indeed unless his contribution improves further still. With Armstrong, his departure may be inevitable if we dont go up simply because of the sheer number of goals, if Brereton chips in as he has started to do, then im not sure that he will necessarily become impossible to keep.

Not necessarily, because he has had the opportunity to build his confidence up with a solid run of games in a crowd free environment. 

[philipl]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16604958.rovers-boss-tony-mowbray-new-signing-ben-brereton/

@philipl what Mowbray actually said. No mention of a 'separate pot' for young players. 

“I think it's just too good an opportunity for us to turn down. We had the money to spend and when you've got it, let's spend it"

I remember that one but it isn't the quote I had in mind.

[SBlue]

I’ve literally been in away ends with people screaming how shit he is pitch side. At a 19 year old.

Of course it’s not rife, but it does happen and has happened so let’s not pretend otherwise.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

22 minutes ago, philipl said:

I remember that one but it isn't the quote I had in mind.

That's what you said the quote was. Regardless, it should be easy to find, especially as you said he said it twice. Took me a minute to find that one. 

 

[Mattyblue]

4 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’ve literally been in away ends with people screaming how shit he is pitch side. At a 19 year old.

Of course it’s not rife, but it does happen and has happened so let’s not pretend otherwise.

Of course it does.

But you can’t judge a fanbase by the rantings of a few pissed up imbeciles at away games (many of whom never step foot in ‘shit’ Ewood). However, as a whole, the crowd has been great with him and I was proud of us for that.
 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Admiral Nelsen]

22 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course it does.

But you can’t judge a fanbase by the rantings of a few pissed up imbeciles at away games (many of whom never step foot in ‘shit’ Ewood). However, as a whole, the crowd has been great with him and I was proud of us for that.
 

Think that's completely fair. I think he would have struggled to avoid criticism will be online. It might well be a minority and a bit echo-chambery, but the torrent of abuse and derision underperforming footballers get online is absolutely unreal. Doesn't make Rovers fans any different to any other club of our size, but I'd be surprised if it didn't affect him at times.

Agree that on the whole, fans at Ewood have been very patient with him, and now that patience seems to be paying off. 

[SBlue]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course it does.

But you can’t judge a fanbase by the rantings of a few pissed up imbeciles at away games (many of whom never step foot in ‘shit’ Ewood). However, as a whole, the crowd has been great with him and I was proud of us for that.
 

Yeah but you don’t know how much he hears and how that affects him, so not sure we can say in-person abuse isn’t relevant.

Hopefully turned the corner psychologically now more than anything else - he’s always had the potential.