Ben Brereton Diaz

[Pedro]

3 hours ago, Hasta said:

Are they? Who?

We expected someone who, having already made 50+ appearances at this level, might be able to make a decent contribution to the first team. 

 

Many chavs. Many, shouty, moany, dim-witted chavs.

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

Many chavs. Many, shouty, moany, dim-witted chavs.

All mythical people that sit near to you I presume.

I've never come across anyone who expects him to be at his peak already at 19.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Hasta

[Pedro]

2 hours ago, Hasta said:

All mythical people that sit near to you I presume.

I've never come across anyone who expects him to be at his peak already at 19.

Ooh, you have it on you today.

Your seat sounds lovely though, only the supportive and nobody getting on the backs of the young lads.  Sadly, near me there are quite a few urchins who like to give it to Ben both barrels.  We've gone a little upmarket though, I can't hear the cockney racist and homophobic guy these days.

[Hasta]

39 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Ooh, you have it on you today.

Your seat sounds lovely though, only the supportive and nobody getting on the backs of the young lads.  Sadly, near me there are quite a few urchins who like to give it to Ben both barrels.  We've gone a little upmarket though, I can't hear the cockney racist and homophobic guy these days.

Now you're just losing it. I didn't say any of that about my seat.

All I said was that I don't think there's anybody that expected him to be the finished article at 19, regardless of the fee. You claim there are many people who are stating this.

If some 'urchin' stands up and calls him rubbish and a wanker that's one thing, but I doubt your Ewood park neighbour is standing up shouting 'Your rubbish Ben and, as you cost £7million,  I expected you to be the finished article.'

Edited February 3, 2019 by Hasta

[Pedro]

11 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Now you're just losing it. I didn't say any of that about my seat.

All I said was that I don't think there's anybody that expected him to be the finished article at 19, regardless of the fee. You claim there are many people who are stating this.

If some 'urchin' stands up and calls him rubbish and a wanker that's one thing, but I doubt your Ewood park neighbour is standing up shouting 'Your rubbish Ben and, as you cost £7million,  I expected you to be the finished article.'

I'm not losing anything.  Read back my initial post.  It isn't unreasonable.  The lad gets a lot of stick already and I don't even think he's started a league match.  Out of the dimwits who hurl abuse at our own, my reasoning is that the majority have seen a massive transfer fee and think that should equate him being amazing.  Having thought about it, I still stand by it.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you chose to be arsey with me about it and saying I've made up an imaginary fanbase etc. but so long as you feel better and it substantiates your own pov, awesome .  There are better ways of disagreeing though.  

[roversfan99]

29 minutes ago, Pedro said:

I'm not losing anything.  Read back my initial post.  It isn't unreasonable.  The lad gets a lot of stick already and I don't even think he's started a league match.  Out of the dimwits who hurl abuse at our own, my reasoning is that the majority have seen a massive transfer fee and think that should equate him being amazing.  Having thought about it, I still stand by it.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you chose to be arsey with me about it and saying I've made up an imaginary fanbase etc. but so long as you feel better and it substantiates your own pov, awesome .  There are better ways of disagreeing though.  

To be fair, quite a few posters have claimed a lack of support behind Brereton witbout backing them up with quotes or examples, only stating they are not to be repeated on a forum.

Your reasoning in bold is totally unsubstantiated however. I am not on my own in having expectations as I have repeated of him not to instantly come into the team and score x goals and take everything by storm right away. But to push Graham, impact games off the bench when Graham tires, come in when Graham is unavailable, and show raw potential of what he is all about. Accepting inconsistencies and frustration along the way. Quite modest expectations of an expensive signing with over 50 Championship games under his belt, as well as plenty of appearances for England youth teams. He hasnt  even come close to doing that, hes not scored, I am still unclear as to what his attributes are, even Mowbray doesnt trust him over Nuttall it seems, who was destined to go out on loan. 

Quite interestingly, quite a few on here including myself have suggested that he was better than usual yesterday. Seemed a bit more desperate to impress, a couple of nice touches and turns, mind you absolutely no goal threat. If that was Dack he would have been criticised for being "anonymous."

Edited February 3, 2019 by roversfan99

[DeeCee]

Better than usual 

[Hasta]

42 minutes ago, Pedro said:

I'm not losing anything.  Read back my initial post.  It isn't unreasonable.  The lad gets a lot of stick already and I don't even think he's started a league match.  Out of the dimwits who hurl abuse at our own, my reasoning is that the majority have seen a massive transfer fee and think that should equate him being amazing.  Having thought about it, I still stand by it.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you chose to be arsey with me about it and saying I've made up an imaginary fanbase etc. but so long as you feel better and it substantiates your own pov, awesome .  There are better ways of disagreeing though.  

People who criticise Breretons performances, myself included, get told that we are being unfair as we are judging him based on his ability needing to match the price tag. I disagree (see my original post). I judge Mowbray on the fee.

I don't doubt that you have idiots who hurl abuse at our own players sat around you. However, as idiotic as they are, I think they are disappointed with Breretons lack of contribution in general rather than expect him to be amazing / the finished article. 

When you said that  "Because of his large transfer fee, many are expecting the finished article already and forget he is only n n n n nineteen", I presumed you had come across people on here and other forms of social media actually saying this. I actually agreed with your post other than that line.  I'd never seen anyone stating such things so asked who they were.

Now it turns out it's a couple of idiots who shout stuff, and you don't know if they do or do not hold that opinion,  you just think that they do.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Hasta

[JeffRover]

I’m quite relaxed when it comes to the whole Brereton debate but I do understand the concerns of many fans. I think the fans just want to see even the most minute glimmer of quality in there, to encourage them that he can be coached and will improve. However, to be quite frank about it he’s been worse than Chris Brown so far. Ducking out of headers, the first touch of a donkey along with a clumsy looking run that makes you think his brain and legs are disconnected. This is even more galling when you consider that as a football club we have been living off rations in recent years in terms of paying transfer fees. Some fans are also worried about the potential implications this may have on further spending in the summer. Mowbray claims he had a budget that he failed to spend in January, so these concerns are probably unfounded. Also, there is no point in trying to sugar coat the fee into something it isn’t. It was widely reported from the Nottingham end that it was £6-7 million and People trying to say “we pay it in instalments” don’t add credibility to their arguments. It is a pretty much universal practise to split a transfer fee over the length of an incoming players contract. I’m also in no doubt that everybody on this board is desperate for the lad to succeed, me included. But that doesn’t mean fans can’t judge a player with their own eyes and so far that has left a lot to be desired with regards to this transfer.

P.s     Those idiots who were involved in the very audable ironic cheers when Brereton scored during the warm up need shooting. The lad looked a bit pissed off and it looked like it created a very awkward atmosphere with the other players. One thing that won’t help matters are stupid arsewipes like that.

Edited February 3, 2019 by JeffRover

[tomphil]

You do wonder what goes through the mind of these clowns going to all that time trouble and expense then skitting their own player. No matter what your opinion on it on a match day you should be behind them but the way his signing has been handled and publicised etc it was only a matter of time.

The blame here lies elsewhere and like has been discussed on here the guy needs pulling to one side and be told bust a gut every time you get on or you won't get on. The pussy footing around him has been a bit ridiculous when you consider how some of our home grown have been handled.

This is exactly why he should be in the U23s for a spell as well as giving him some games and a chance to restore a bit of confidence it takes him out the spotlight and away from the minority of pitchforks being sharpened.

[Tom Stinny]

I'd hope something like that pisses the lad off that much that he'd be in the mindset to go out and prove the prats otherwise. He must have some mental strength to be a pro football player. 

 

Got a feeling that once he gets a goal he'll then start to step up. We've got two very young attackers in him and Armstrong with Dack bringing the star quality and Graham having that pedigree and know how.

 

Still think Rothwell will add a lot as well it's just a case of it clicking or being allowed to click into place.

[Guest]

Thought he was okay Saturday. Looked good linking up with Armstrong too until we capitulated. 

Out of pure chance on YouTube last night our 1-0 win at Forest from the season we went down came on as a recommended video. First half he tore us a new one, aged 16/17(?) at the time. One part in particular the ball came to him about 30 yards out on the half volley and he whistled it inches over the top first time. Nothing like that sort of confidence in him at the moment.

However you can't blame him, if he did hit one on the half volley for us and it was sliced then there'd be a public execution demanded. Just needs that one goal and the rest of the season's priority for me has to be to get him firing. If he's given game time up front until the end of the season and it still doesn't happen then fair enough it's a poor transfer. Until i see him with an extended run in his favoured position then I'm holding judgement back. Unpopular opinion: he looks a far better all round footballer than Nuttall does.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Mellor Rover

[Oldgregg86]

44 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Thought he was okay Saturday. Looked good linking up with Armstrong too until we capitulated. 

Out of pure chance on YouTube last night our 1-3 win at Forest from under Bowyer came on as a recommended video. First half he tore us a new one, aged 16 (?) at the time. One part in particular the ball came to him about 30 yards out on the half volley and he whistled it inches over the top first time. Nothing like that sort of confidence in him at the moment.

However you can't blame him, if he did hit one on the half volley for us and it was sliced then there'd be a public execution demanded. Just needs that one goal and the rest of the season's priority for me has to be to get him firing. If he's given game time up front until the end of the season and it still doesn't happen then fair enough it's a poor transfer. Until i see him with an extended run in his favoured position then I'm holding judgement back. Unpopular opinion: he looks a far better all round footballer than Nuttall does.

The difference between nuttall and brereton for me is I believe nuttall has hit his ceiling. What you see is what you get with nuttall. I do believe there has to be more to ben, not just for the fee paid but from what forest fans have said and the one game I saw him when he was brilliant. I do believe he will get better. I expected alot more from him and thought he wouldn't be as raw as he his. I'm in the give him time category but he has to start showing glimpses of what he is capable of and about because it's fair to say up to now he has been not just disappointing but poor with and without the ball.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

The difference between nuttall and brereton for me is I believe nuttall has hit his ceiling. What you see is what you get with nuttall. I do believe there has to be more to ben, not just for the fee paid but from what forest fans have said and the one game I saw him when he was brilliant. I do believe he will get better. I expected alot more from him and thought he wouldn't be as raw as he his. I'm in the give him time category but he has to start showing glimpses of what he is capable of and about because it's fair to say up to now he has been not just disappointing but poor with and without the ball.

In spite of what people might think I'd love for him to be a success. We desperately need a striker at the moment and the repercussions from the Chokers of another massive flop on our future spending plans don't bear thinking about.

Having said that the World of football is littered with players who peaked at 18. Look back in the past at England U-18 teams. How many out of the 11 usually make it at top level ? 2 or 3 ?  Some times not even that many. I remember watching a game years ago when we had a forward who's name I've forgotten. He'd every trick in the book, he went past players like they weren't there. I thought " This lad can't fail ". A couple of years later he was playing in the Fourth Division !

[Guest]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In spite of what people might think I'd love for him to be a success. We desperately need a striker at the moment and the repercussions from the Chokers of another massive flop on our future spending plans don't bear thinking about.

Having said that the World of football is littered with players who peaked at 18. Look back in the past at England U-18 teams. How many out of the 11 usually make it at top level ? 2 or 3 ?  Some times not even that many. I remember watching a game years ago when we had a forward who's name I've forgotten. He'd every trick in the book, he went past players like they weren't there. I thought " This lad can't fail ". A couple of years later he was playing in the Fourth Division !

Good point. Not many at that level have first team experience at any level though, never mind championship.

They're all academy players at top top clubs and never given the chance to improve. Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool being the main culprits.

Brereton's never gonna be world class, but there's a chance he could at least turn into a top championship striker. Just have to wait and see.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Mellor Rover said:

Good point. Not many at that level have first team experience at any level though, never mind championship.

They're all academy players at top top clubs and never given the chance to improve. Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool being the main culprits.

Brereton's never gonna be world class, but there's a chance he could at least turn into a top championship striker. Just have to wait and see.

Even in the old days of the U-23's when player were older and much more established and weren't being handicapped by foreign imports at their clubs the number that ended up playing in the bottom tiers within a couple of years was pretty high. Signing any player is a gamble no matter how good they appear to be but signing 18 year olds is even more of a gamble.

[Dreams of 1995]

6 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In spite of what people might think I'd love for him to be a success. We desperately need a striker at the moment and the repercussions from the Chokers of another massive flop on our future spending plans don't bear thinking about.

Having said that the World of football is littered with players who peaked at 18. Look back in the past at England U-18 teams. How many out of the 11 usually make it at top level ? 2 or 3 ?  Some times not even that many. I remember watching a game years ago when we had a forward who's name I've forgotten. He'd every trick in the book, he went past players like they weren't there. I thought " This lad can't fail ". A couple of years later he was playing in the Fourth Division !

Jack Byrne springs to mind there. In an era of highlights and training drills you can flatter to deceive quite easily. So often you see a player dribble with speed past 6 cones and knock it into a cut out top corner on an artificial surface. Fast forward to Saturday: 6 players in front of you, keeper to beat and worn surface and the pressure shows.

[DE.]

44 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In spite of what people might think I'd love for him to be a success. We desperately need a striker at the moment and the repercussions from the Chokers of another massive flop on our future spending plans don't bear thinking about.

Having said that the World of football is littered with players who peaked at 18. Look back in the past at England U-18 teams. How many out of the 11 usually make it at top level ? 2 or 3 ?  Some times not even that many. I remember watching a game years ago when we had a forward who's name I've forgotten. He'd every trick in the book, he went past players like they weren't there. I thought " This lad can't fail ". A couple of years later he was playing in the Fourth Division !

J-Lowe was an England U-20's captain and played regularly for the U21's as well, so yeah, it doesn't mean that much. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

I suppose you could make the argument that Englands under age teams are far better now than when J - Lowe played. But you're right though, under age football is not a predictor of long term success. Ireland won the Under 18 Euros around 20 years ago, out of 22 players, only 4 played in the Premier league. Some never even made it as professionals. 

[frosty]

3 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

 

Out of pure chance on YouTube last night our 1-3 win at Forest from under Bowyer came on as a recommended video.

Was it definitely that game? As that 3-1 win was in 2014! Might have been the 1-0 under Mowbray in 2017.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, frosty said:

Was it definitely that game? As that 3-1 win was in 2014! Might have been the 1-0 under Mowbray in 2017.

You're right, typo. Will edit now. Here's the video too for anyone interested.

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Mellor Rover

[DE.]

Only one sub from that Forest game is still here: Emnes, Stokes, Joao, Guthrie, Tomlinson, Brown, Fisher 

As far as the first team, not many left from that either: Raya, Nyambe, Ward, Hoban, Williams, Mahoney, Lowe, Akpan, Feeney, Bennett, Gallagher

Fair to say we've seen some significant improvement across the pitch since those dark days. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, DE. said:

Only one sub from that Forest game is still here: Emnes, Stokes, Joao, Guthrie, Tomlinson, Brown, Fisher 

As far as the first team, not many left from that either: Raya, Nyambe, Ward, Hoban, Williams, Mahoney, Lowe, Akpan, Feeney, Bennett, Gallagher

Fair to say we've seen some significant improvement across the pitch since those dark days. 

That's a bloody awful team. You couldn't say it was too good to go down anyway,that's for sure! 

Anyone who says Gallagher didn't do well here, needs to look at what was supplying him from midfield. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's a bloody awful team. You couldn't say it was too good to go down anyway,that's for sure! 

Anyone who says Gallagher didn't do well here, needs to look at what was supplying him from midfield. 

That team is particularly weak that day due to injuries. No Mulgrew, Lenihan, Conway, Graham and Marshall sold.

For much of the season under Coyle he had the privelidge of a strike partner in Graham (or Emnes) and Marshall and Conway providing crosses from outwide. He had Jota and Maghoma doing likewise last season and scored 6. We didnt struggle for goals under Coyle, his tactics left our defence exposed.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

That team is particularly weak that day due to injuries. No Mulgrew, Lenihan, Conway, Graham and Marshall sold.

For much of the season under Coyle he had the privelidge of a strike partner in Graham (or Emnes) and Marshall and Conway providing crosses from outwide. He had Jota and Maghoma doing likewise last season and scored 6. We didnt struggle for goals under Coyle, his tactics left our defence exposed.

Both struggling teams