Ben Brereton Diaz

[booth]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Some people seem to be writing him off already - based on a very limited number of minutes, being not match fit and playing out wide.

£6/7m may be a lot to Rovers these days - but in the grand scheme of things it's not a big fee in the modern era. 

It's not a problem if you completely forget everything that's happened under Venkys so far and still think we can soak that kind of loss up.

[islander200]

43 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Glenn Murray isn’t quite 35 yet, but otherwise you’re right. 

Some of the comments against Palmer and Graham especially on here are just mental. The way some people go on about Graham is like he’s 45 and in traction...

Perspective and that.

Danny Graham is undoubtedly our best striker but Mowbray himself has said on numerous occasions that Graham struggles playing 3 games in a week.

I presume his thought process on this is coming from the medical team and the player himself. 

In an ideal world Graham would start every match but can see why Chaddy and others don't expect him to start on Saturday due to the managers previous comments about Graham's fitness.

Graham has a history of injuries throughout his career and the last thing i want to see is him getting overplayed , getting injured and out for a period of time 

[Bbrovers2288]

Really starting to question the B.B. deal, when we rest our starting forward we go for Armstrong instead of our big summer signing. Don’t think we have the solid championship squad that we can wait a few years until the lad comes good, very strange signing. I get that he is playing out of position the few chances he has had but if that’s the case why didn’t we sign someone like bogvarsson who I wanted as he can play up top or on the win and is championship established

[Give 'Em the Axe]

11 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

We know your opinion on lads over 29 anyway Chaddy. You want them put out to pasture

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Give 'Em the Axe

[JBiz]

9 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Really starting to question the B.B. deal, when we rest our starting forward we go for Armstrong instead of our big summer signing. Don’t think we have the solid championship squad that we can wait a few years until the lad comes good, very strange signing. I get that he is playing out of position the few chances he has had but if that’s the case why didn’t we sign someone like bogvarsson who I wanted as he can play up top or on the win and is championship established

Less than a month after signing someone you’re “starting to question”.. because we chose the older more established one in a couple of games?

Signing a young lad is “strange” because we don’t have the time to wait for them to develop? That doesn’t even make sense. You’re speaking as if we didn’t sign anyone else in that respect. We’ve accrued several young potential players to add to our academy group. Nothing strange about that to me, it’s called forward planning.

Out of position? What part of the “27 minutes” (maybe a bit more, but sheesh) has told you he has a definite role and position in our tactics/squad?

Why didn’t we sign someone else? Again, maybe give the lad at least 1 start before we seek to pay off his contract and sign someone else.

I also don’t buy that the fee was what people think. I reckon much of it is in instalments and his wage would’ve been considerably cheaper than signing someone like Bamford, Baldock or Bodvarsson! 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

26 minutes ago, Biz said:

Less than a month after signing someone you’re “starting to question”.. because we chose the older more established one in a couple of games?

Signing a young lad is “strange” because we don’t have the time to wait for them to develop? That doesn’t even make sense. You’re speaking as if we didn’t sign anyone else in that respect. We’ve accrued several young potential players to add to our academy group. Nothing strange about that to me, it’s called forward planning.

Out of position? What part of the “27 minutes” (maybe a bit more, but sheesh) has told you he has a definite role and position in our tactics/squad?

Why didn’t we sign someone else? Again, maybe give the lad at least 1 start before we seek to pay off his contract and sign someone else.

I also don’t buy that the fee was what people think. I reckon much of it is in instalments and his wage would’ve been considerably cheaper than signing someone like Bamford, Baldock or Bodvarsson! 

That's a lot of dosh for an " academy " recruit.

[JBiz]

21 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's a lot of dosh for an " academy " recruit.

See the last paragraph. 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Really starting to question the B.B. deal, when we rest our starting forward we go for Armstrong instead of our big summer signing. Don’t think we have the solid championship squad that we can wait a few years until the lad comes good, very strange signing. I get that he is playing out of position the few chances he has had but if that’s the case why didn’t we sign someone like bogvarsson who I wanted as he can play up top or on the win and is championship established

30 minutes, 30 minutes......The 19 year old has played for 30 minutes. My god there will be a meltdown if he starts and has a poor game 

Bogvarsson has like 14 goals in 80 games. He looked clumsy to me when we played them. Granted he did finish his 2 gifts well, but he won't get many goals on a plate like that. 

I would think we have a solid Championship squad. Our results and performances so far , though mixed, would back that up. 

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's a lot of dosh for an " academy " recruit.

He isnt an academy recruit Tyrone,he played 36 times for Forest in the championship last season.

You used to play didnt you?Then surely you can appreciate it will take a bit of time for Brereton to settle.He hadn't been involved with Forest this season so how can you expect him to have full match sharpness when he hasnt been playing.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are writing off Brereton after a max hour's playing time for us

Edited September 20, 2018 by islander200

[K-Hod]

I don't think anyone is 'writing him off' just yet, they're just commenting on what they've seen so far. I've only seen him for half an hour against Villa and there was nothing that concerned me to be honest. 

He'll need time to bed in to a new team, adapt to new team-mates, a new area etc. It's a lot of change to take in all at once. 

To me anyway, writing him off would be saying 'he's useless', 'a terrible signing' etc.  As far as I can see, all people have posted about is based what they've seen so far. The key words being 'SO FAR'. 

[islander200]

1 minute ago, K-Hod said:

I don't think anyone is 'writing him off' just yet, they're just commenting on what they've seen so far. I've only seen him for half an hour against Villa and there was nothing that concerned me to be honest. 

He'll need time to bed in to a new team, adapt to new team-mates, a new area etc. It's a lot of change to take in all at once. 

To me anyway, writing him off would be saying 'he's useless', 'a terrible signing' etc.  As far as I can see, all people have posted about is based what they've seen so far. The key words being 'SO FAR'. 

Maybe writing him off is a bit far but in my opinion he is getting unjust criticism.

You can't judge a player after what 50 minutes playing time, playing out of position.

Calling him an academy player when he he has played 40 plus games at championship level at the age of 19 isnt right either.

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

19 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I don't think anyone is 'writing him off' just yet, they're just commenting on what they've seen so far. I've only seen him for half an hour against Villa and there was nothing that concerned me to be honest. 

He'll need time to bed in to a new team, adapt to new team-mates, a new area etc. It's a lot of change to take in all at once. 

To me anyway, writing him off would be saying 'he's useless', 'a terrible signing' etc.  As far as I can see, all people have posted about is based what they've seen so far. The key words being 'SO FAR'. 

He is being written off. I have seen a couple of tweets from Rovers fans saying he is the "new Kevin Davies" 

[den]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He is being written off. I have seen a couple of tweets from Rovers fans saying he is the "new Kevin Davies" 

I don’t see a problem posting their opinions of a player - even if he hasn’t played many hours of football. How long do people have to wait to say what they think? After all, some fans can’t see a good player or a poor player no matter how long they watch them.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, den said:

I don’t see a problem posting their opinions of a player - even if he hasn’t played many hours of football. How long do people have to wait to say what they think? After all, some fans can’t see a good player or a poor player no matter how long they watch them.

Of course they are entitled to say what they want, but thinking they know enough about a player after 30 minutes out of position is stupid. Every player can have a bad game. Obviously there is no authority to say how many games you need to watch a player before judging them ,but calling them "the new Kevin Davies" after a  30 minute cameo on the wing is a bit overly critical would you not think? 

I agree that some can never tell, I think that's the point  Yet their go to reaction is a negative one 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[den]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Of course they are entitled to say what they want, but thinking they know enough about a player after 30 minutes out of position is stupid. Every player can have a bad game. Obviously there is no authority to say how many games you need to watch a player before judging them ,but calling them "the new Kevin Davies" after a  30 minute cameo on the wing is a bit overly critical would you not think? 

I agree that some can never tell, I think that's the point  Yet their go to reaction is a negative one 

Well if they’re entitled to say what they want about a player, what’s the problem.?

I would say you can see a players technical abilities pretty quickly, certainly within a game or two and I think that’s what people are commenting on. Whether they can apply themselves within a team might be a different matter. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, den said:

Well if they’re entitled to say what they want about a player, what’s the problem.?

I would say you can see a players technical abilities pretty quickly, certainly within a game or two and I think that’s what people are commenting on. Whether they can apply themselves within a team might be a different matter. 

There is no problem, I just disagree with them. 

The main reason being that you mention technical abilities , those being critical usually don't go that deep. It's vague "waste of money" "why spend 7 million on an academy player" "new Kevin Davies" "type of stuff. If they gave reasons why they thought this , I would say fair enough 

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, den said:

Well if they’re entitled to say what they want about a player, what’s the problem.?

I would say you can see a players technical abilities pretty quickly, certainly within a game or two and I think that’s what people are commenting on. Whether they can apply themselves within a team might be a different matter. 

Den although i agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion,Brereton is only 19 and has no match sharpness as of yet due to not being involved with Forest.

From watching him at Forest he does have ability and although the price seems a bit steep it will only reach the levels suggested if he meets the clauses in the contract and if he does it will mean he has done alright for us. 

I remember last year in the early stages of the season poster's were making the same comments about Dack, "strange signing", "where is he going to play id rather 4-4-2", "we won't score enough goals with only 1 up top" etc and look how that signing turned out.

I can't tell the future so don't know if Brereton will be a good signing or not but watched him twice live for Forest as at the time the lass i was seeing was a Forest fan and seen him a few times on the box and he made an impression. 

People are judging him on less than an hours action being played out of position and lacking match action which is unfair

[K-Hod]

55 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He is being written off. I have seen a couple of tweets from Rovers fans saying he is the "new Kevin Davies" 

Yeah, he may be, but I'm talking specifically re posts on here. I don't do Twitter. Good grief, people get it wrong sometimes and do a complete 180, there's nobody more fickle than football fans. People are capable of changing their mind.

A poster on here called Rudy Gestede a poor man's Leon Best once! Ultimately, if he bangs the goals in and becomes a hero, we're all winners. 

There's no point getting too wound up by people's opinions anyhow, it's only pixels on a screen. :-) I've said some daft things, as has everyone else on here from time to time, out of over 10,000 posts, looking back, there are some I rather wish I hadn't made, but such is life.....

Edited September 20, 2018 by K-Hod

[LDRover]

41 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Of course they are entitled to say what they want, but thinking they know enough about a player after 30 minutes out of position is stupid. Every player can have a bad game. Obviously there is no authority to say how many games you need to watch a player before judging them ,but calling them "the new Kevin Davies" after a  30 minute cameo on the wing is a bit overly critical would you not think? 

I agree that some can never tell, I think that's the point  Yet their go to reaction is a negative one 

Not blowing my own trumpet here but I'd sussed Grabbi out within 15 minutes of his debut at Derby.

[den]

8 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Den although i agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion,Brereton is only 19 and has no match sharpness as of yet due to not being involved with Forest.

From watching him at Forest he does have ability and although the price seems a bit steep it will only reach the levels suggested if he meets the clauses in the contract and if he does it will mean he has done alright for us. 

I remember last year in the early stages of the season poster's were making the same comments about Dack, "strange signing", "where is he going to play id rather 4-4-2", "we won't score enough goals with only 1 up top" etc and look how that signing turned out.

I can't tell the future so don't know if Brereton will be a good signing or not but watched him twice live for Forest as at the time the lass i was seeing was a Forest fan and seen him a few times on the box and he made an impression. 

People are judging him on less than an hours action being played out of position and lacking match action which is unfair

It’s interesting that you have actually seen him live a couple of times and feel OK to voice your opinion. That’s great, I’m all for that. It would be good if you could expand a little on him as a player. So why shouldn’t posters on here who have also seen him live a couple of times and possibly on TV as well give their opinions? I don’t get it. They might be right about him (or any other player) or they might be wrong. Some people just don’t want to read what they believe are negative viewpoints of a player. I think all opinions on football matters are good and therefore positive in that sense, whether they’re right or wrong.

[islander200]

29 minutes ago, den said:

It’s interesting that you have actually seen him live a couple of times and feel OK to voice your opinion. That’s great, I’m all for that. It would be good if you could expand a little on him as a player. So why shouldn’t posters on here who have also seen him live a couple of times and possibly on TV as well give their opinions? I don’t get it. They might be right about him (or any other player) or they might be wrong. Some people just don’t want to read what they believe are negative viewpoints of a player. I think all opinions on football matters are good and therefore positive in that sense, whether they’re right or wrong.

The people who seem to be most critical of his signing have openly admitted they had'nt heard of him prior to him joining thats who my posts are aimed at of course if someone has watched him a few times and they have the opinion he is a poor signing then fair enough.

 

But In my opinion nobody can give a valid opinion on a player if they have only watched him in less than an hours action being played out of position and clearly lacking match action, it is unfair. 

Like i said i dont know wether he will be a good signing or not but i wouldnt call him out one way or the other after only watching him for less than an hour.

From what i seen of him, has some pace, a lovely first touch, decent movement.

In time i do believe he will be capable of taking Danny Graham's place and play as a target man.He needs some time to adjust and learn to play that role though

Mowbray has said it will take 2 or 3 windows to have the squad he feels can put in a challenge for promotion. 

We have just come up from league one,we have had a steady start, and although id like us challenging for a play off spot finishing in the top half is more realistic and would be a good first season back in the Championship.

Edited September 20, 2018 by islander200

[47er]

40 minutes ago, islander200 said:

The people who seem to be most critical of his signing have openly admitted they had'nt heard of him prior to him joining thats who my posts are aimed at of course if someone has watched him a few times and they have the opinion he is a poor signing then fair enough.

 

But In my opinion nobody can give a valid opinion on a player if they have only watched him in less than an hours action being played out of position and clearly lacking match action, it is unfair. 

Like i said i dont know wether he will be a good signing or not but i wouldnt call him out one way or the other after only watching him for less than an hour.

From what i seen of him, has some pace, a lovely first touch, decent movement.

In time i do believe he will be capable of taking Danny Graham's place and play as a target man.He needs some time to adjust and learn to play that role though

Mowbray has said it will take 2 or 3 windows to have the squad he feels can put in a challenge for promotion. 

We have just come up from league one,we have had a steady start, and although id like us challenging for a play off spot finishing in the top half is more realistic and would be a good first season back in the Championship.

Well, nobody's been able to watch him for more than few minutes have they? Unless they are Notts Forest fans of course, in which case they'll have seen him for a handful of games.

Its not a case of writing him off, I personally don't recall any poster doing that, its a case of wondering if that was the best way of spending that sort of money at this particular time. He played for us in one game, out of position and looked hopeless.I'm on the record as doubting the value of this signing before we made it but I hope he gets a chance in his real position and takes it.

I suspect most feel he same.

 

[islander200]

Just now, 47er said:

Well, nobody's been able to watch him for more than few minutes have they? Unless they are Notts Forest fans of course, in which case they'll have seen him for a handful of games.

Its not a case of writing him off, I personally don't recall any poster doing that, its a case of wondering if that was the best way of spending that sort of money at this particular time. He played for us in one game, out of position and looked hopeless.I'm on the record as doubting the value of this signing before we made it but I hope he gets a chance in his real position and takes it.

I suspect most feel he same.

 

A handful games?He was involved in 36 championship games for Forest last season, not bad for a 19 year old wouldnt you agree?

He was even getting starts the season we went down,he played in the game against us at Forest.

I just think its unfair to call him out one way or the other after less than an hours action being played out of position and lacking match sharpness, that is my point.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Of course they are entitled to say what they want, but thinking they know enough about a player after 30 minutes out of position is stupid. Every player can have a bad game. Obviously there is no authority to say how many games you need to watch a player before judging them ,but calling them "the new Kevin Davies" after a  30 minute cameo on the wing is a bit overly critical would you not think? 

I agree that some can never tell, I think that's the point  Yet their go to reaction is a negative one 

You're talking "tweets"! Its a nutty world our there! Nobody on this MB has written him off, just expressed doubts.

[47er]

Just now, islander200 said:

A handful games?He was involved in 36 championship games for Forest last season, not bad for a 19 year old wouldnt you agree?

He was even getting starts the season we went down,he played in the game against us at Forest.

I just think its unfair to call him out one way or the other after less than an hours action being played out of position and lacking match sharpness, that is my point.

How many did he start? But I'm not arguing the way you are implying. He's had one half hour out of position so I'm certainly not writing him off .

He will have plenty of chances so we wait and see.