Ben Brereton Diaz

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, 47er said:

How many did he start? But I'm not arguing the way you are implying. He's had one half hour out of position so I'm certainly not writing him off .

He will have plenty of chances so we wait and see.

He started every week when Warburton was in charge

[47er]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He started every week when Warburton was in charge

Could have been why he was sacked after only 9 months in charge!

(Just a joke!)

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Yeah, he may be, but I'm talking specifically re posts on here. I don't do Twitter. Good grief, people get it wrong sometimes and do a complete 180, there's nobody more fickle than football fans. People are capable of changing their mind.

A poster on here called Rudy Gestede a poor man's Leon Best once! Ultimately, if he bangs the goals in and becomes a hero, we're all winners. 

There's no point getting too wound up by people's opinions anyhow, it's only pixels on a screen. :-) I've said some daft things, as has everyone else on here from time to time, out of over 10,000 posts, looking back, there are some I rather wish I hadn't made, but such is life.....

No ones getting wound up. I just think people who are judging him this early are wrong in doing so 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

You're talking "tweets"! Its a nutty world our there! Nobody on this MB has written him off, just expressed doubts.

Well they should calm down with their doubts because they have only seen him play for 30 minutes, on the wing  It doesn't make sense 

[JacknOry]

The kid must have something to have played so many championship games before he has even made 20-years old. Lets not forget that their fans were up in arms about him being sold. Plays for England youth too.

He was played kinda out of position (though I heard he played in the 3-behind sometimes for Forest as well) for 30-minutes in a game where the team as a whole was pretty awful, so certainly not a match we should be judging him on.

I can kinda understand a little that he cost a lot of money and for many, spending that money should indicate an instant improvement on the starting eleven, especially as it is 10x what we spent on our best player the season before. However, lets give the kid some time to adapt to his new surroundings, team mates, style of play and tactics.  

Edited September 20, 2018 by JacknOry

[den]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well they should calm down with their doubts because they have only seen him play for 30 minutes, on the wing  It doesn't make sense 

It would be OK to comment if it was praise for him?

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, den said:

It would be OK to comment if it was praise for him?

Well anyone who I have read praising him have usually given examples and have seen more of him(for Forrest), whereas those who are being critical generally haven't given reasons why beyond the the 30 min against Villa, if even that. 

 

[den]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well anyone who I have read praising him have usually given examples and have seen more of him(for Forrest), whereas those who are being critical generally haven't given reasons why beyond the the 30 min against Villa, if even that. 

 

It was a simple question to be honest. 

LD rover worked Grabbi out after less than one game, but he would have been wrong to post that on here - that’s what you’re basically saying. Anyway, this is getting very silly, so I’ll leave it there. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

17 minutes ago, den said:

It was a simple question to be honest. 

LD rover worked Grabbi out after less than one game, but he would have been wrong to post that on here - that’s what you’re basically saying. Anyway, this is getting very silly, so I’ll leave it there. 

That's one example. You could name many more where fans slated them and they turned out good. You would only need to go back as far as last season. 

It's similar to fans saying "we shouldn't have signed so and so" without offering an alternative within our price range we could have signed. It's easier to be critical you see. Involves less effort. 

Yep, let's leave it at that 

[JBiz]

Let’s not forget, people are free to post their opinions.

It’s my opinion that the remarks; “BB looks a strange signing” and unsuitable to a position are absurd.

As I previously stated, and a conversation I had on Saturday with either @K-Hod or @S8 & Blue or both, (was beer impaired mind) it was mentioned about BB’s reported fee possibly being heavily performance based and overblown for the forest fans.

I think people should be excited that we’ve added a potentially talented England youth and championship preened talent. Not; questioning the motives of the deal, offering hindsight opinions on better alternatives after less than a month or suggesting the lad can be written off in a position or style of play. Doesn’t mean I’m intent on shutting down those opinions, I’m just pointing out how they’re daft from my direction.

Quite exciting that we’ve added 4 players, including the 2 u23 lads from Walsall and Ireland, all upfront. Ambition to build depth in all positions. 

Much more exciting than Varney, Chris Brown, Delfonoeso and Stokes...

 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

The kid must have something to have played so many championship games before he has even made 20-years old. Lets not forget that their fans were up in arms about him being sold. Plays for England youth too.

He was played kinda out of position (though I heard he played in the 3-behind sometimes for Forest as well) for 30-minutes in a game where the team as a whole was pretty awful, so certainly not a match we should be judging him on.

I can kinda understand a little that he cost a lot of money and for many, spending that money should indicate an instant improvement on the starting eleven, especially as it is 10x what we spent on our best player the season before. However, lets give the kid some time to adapt to his new surroundings, team mates, style of play and tactics.  

 

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well they should calm down with their doubts because they have only seen him play for 30 minutes, on the wing  It doesn't make sense 

 

56 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well anyone who I have read praising him have usually given examples and have seen more of him(for Forrest), whereas those who are being critical generally haven't given reasons why beyond the the 30 min against Villa, if even that. 

 

We need to remove this notion whereby we will ever get to the stage where a player will play and supporters will prevent their natural instinct from forming an opinion on that particular performance. Whether the player has been here for 10 years or half an hour. As long as people dont accompany it with things like hes a waste of money based on that  solitary cameo, then theres nothing wrong with it at all. It goes without saying that he is not fully fit, didnt play in his natural position and wont have fully settled, but he played crap, just as on Saturday Armstrong and Lenihan did, whereas Mulgrew and Smallwood played well.

The people who have given examples from Forest are basing it almost exclusively on video footage of his best bits. His goal record suggests that the consistency clearly isnt there yet, and I have read plenty of both positives and doubts about the player from Forest fans, 2 of which, that he throws himself over a lot and that he is next to useless out wide were both in show in that cameo. The deal in the main was brought with inquisitive excitement but it goes with the territory of a massive fee to expect that to be taken into account. But in his only 2 cameos, in particular on Saturday when the game was in the balance unlike the lost cause at Bristol, that is our only possible judgement grounds in a Rovers shirt and in the relevant place, it is valid to state if people think he was poor.

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's one example. You could name many more where fans slated them and they turned out good. You would only need to go back as far as last season. 

It's similar to fans saying "we shouldn't have signed so and so" without offering an alternative within our price range we could have signed. It's easier to be critical you see. Involves less effort. 

Yep, let's leave it at that 

You dont have to have a list of alternatives to be able to judge a player.

That said, like I have said on other threads, my view on Brereton is unchanged really overall despite a very poor cameo on Saturday due to a series of mitigating circumstances.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

 

 

We need to remove this notion whereby we will ever get to the stage where a player will play and supporters will prevent their natural instinct from forming an opinion on that particular performance. Whether the player has been here for 10 years or half an hour. As long as people dont accompany it with things like hes a waste of money based on that  solitary cameo, then theres nothing wrong with it at all. It goes without saying that he is not fully fit, didnt play in his natural position and wont have fully settled, but he played crap, just as on Saturday Armstrong and Lenihan did, whereas Mulgrew and Smallwood played well.

The people who have given examples from Forest are basing it almost exclusively on video footage of his best bits. His goal record suggests that the consistency clearly isnt there yet, and I have read plenty of both positives and doubts about the player from Forest fans, 2 of which, that he throws himself over a lot and that he is next to useless out wide were both in show in that cameo. The deal in the main was brought with inquisitive excitement but it goes with the territory of a massive fee to expect that to be taken into account. But in his only 2 cameos, in particular on Saturday when the game was in the balance unlike the lost cause at Bristol, that is our only possible judgement grounds in a Rovers shirt and in the relevant place, it is valid to state if people think he was poor.

You dont have to have a list of alternatives to be able to judge a player.

That said, like I have said on other threads, my view on Brereton is unchanged really overall despite a very poor cameo on Saturday due to a series of mitigating circumstances.

It's not about judging a player. It's about judging a signing without offering an alternative. If you think we shouldn't have signed X player, then say why and who would you have preferred we sign. Otherwise it just comes accross as baseless moaning! 

Let's say Brereton. Leave his performance or whatever aside. If someone goes we shouldn't have signed him, we could have gotten a more proven championship player. Well then tell us who this proven championship player is, because I can't think of any we could have signed for the same money. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's not about judging a player. It's about judging a signing without offering an alternative. If you think we shouldn't have signed X player, then say why and who would you have preferred we sign. Otherwise it just comes accross as baseless moaning! 

Let's say Brereton. Leave his performance or whatever aside. If someone goes we shouldn't have signed him, we could have gotten a more proven championship player. Well then tell us who this proven championship player is, because I can't think of any we could have signed for the same money. 

I disagree if you have constructive reasoning behind such an opinion. Brereton has a poor goal record for example, therefore questions may be raised about that. That said, theres a lot of potentially exciting aspects to the signing.

If Brereton scores the winner on Saturday and plays well, he will be judged positively on that individual performance, and judged negatively should he play poorly. Like anyone else.

[islander200]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

 

We need to remove this notion whereby we will ever get to the stage where a player will play and supporters will prevent their natural instinct from forming an opinion on that particular performance. Whether the player has been here for 10 years or half an hour. As long as people dont accompany it with things like hes a waste of money based on that  solitary cameo, then theres nothing wrong with it at all. It goes without saying that he is not fully fit, didnt play in his natural position and wont have fully settled, but he played crap, just as on Saturday Armstrong and Lenihan did, whereas Mulgrew and Smallwood played well.

The people who have given examples from Forest are basing it almost exclusively on video footage of his best bits. His goal record suggests that the consistency clearly isnt there yet, and I have read plenty of both positives and doubts about the player from Forest fans, 2 of which, that he throws himself over a lot and that he is next to useless out wide were both in show in that cameo. The deal in the main was brought with inquisitive excitement but it goes with the territory of a massive fee to expect that to be taken into account. But in his only 2 cameos, in particular on Saturday when the game was in the balance unlike the lost cause at Bristol, that is our only possible judgement grounds in a Rovers shirt and in the relevant place, it is valid to state if people think he was poor.

You dont have to have a list of alternatives to be able to judge a player.

That said, like I have said on other threads, my view on Brereton is unchanged really overall despite a very poor cameo on Saturday due to a series of mitigating circumstances.

Earier on someone called Brererton an academy player, he has been involved in 50+ games in the Championship.Im sorry you don't play 

I get why people might argue we could have gone for more experience and i take that point but the club for the first time in a long time has shown a bit of ambition, did anyone envisage us spending big money on a highly rated young player and good player which i have seen for myself , im sorry but you dont play that amount of times at this level at his age if you don't have something about you.

He will need some time, with or without Brererton this side will be well clear of relegation pushing for the top half imo if Brererton gets a bit of confidence  and form and we add 1 or 2 more players of quality in January then the play offs could beckon one or two bits more of quality and depth together with the fantastic spirit we have many teams wont beat us.

Its an exciting time to be a fan in my opinion someone said they could feel something brewing down at Ewood and i agree.Lenihan,Nyambe,Bell,Rothwell,Dack,Brereton,Armstrong(who i do think will prove a bargain at what we bought him for but when the strength in the squad allows i think we will see the best of him in this division as an impact sub)Davenport(Haven't seen him bar  1 Burton game on the box but looked good in that and has had good things said about him by both Guardiola and Clough) if we manage to add in january and in the summer then we really could go into next season with a very good side.

I know venkys have fecked us over that many times i am slightly cautious but this does have a different feel about it,we must have had one of the biggest net spends in the division this season.

Im just hoping the fan's wont get on Brererton's back too much, he will need a little time, he is at a young age and moving clubs like that cant be the easiest i imagine and he hasnt had much game time he needs that match fitness

[roversfan99]

Just now, islander200 said:

Earier on someone called Brererton an academy player, he has been involved in 50+ games in the Championship.Im sorry you don't play 

I get why people might argue we could have gone for more experience and i take that point but the club for the first time in a long time has shown a bit of ambition, did anyone envisage us spending big money on a highly rated young player and good player which i have seen for myself , im sorry but you dont play that amount of times at this level at his age if you don't have something about you.

He will need some time, with or without Brererton this side will be well clear of relegation pushing for the top half imo if Brererton gets a bit of confidence  and form and we add 1 or 2 more players of quality in January then the play offs could beckon one or two bits more of quality and depth together with the fantastic spirit we have many teams wont beat us.

Its an exciting time to be a fan in my opinion someone said they could feel something brewing down at Ewood and i agree.Lenihan,Nyambe,Bell,Rothwell,Dack,Brereton,Armstrong(who i do think will prove a bargain at what we bought him for but when the strength in the squad allows i think we will see the best of him in this division as an impact sub)Davenport(Haven't seen him bar  1 Burton game on the box but looked good in that and has had good things said about him by both Guardiola and Clough) if we manage to add in january and in the summer then we really could go into next season with a very good side.

I know venkys have fecked us over that many times i am slightly cautious but this does have a different feel about it,we must have had one of the biggest net spends in the division this season.

Im just hoping the fan's wont get on Brererton's back too much, he will need a little time, he is at a young age and moving clubs like that cant be the easiest i imagine and he hasnt had much game time he needs that match fitness

I do agree with many of your points, notably that Brereton will improve with time, that he is part of a young, vibrant core (important to appreciate the experience of the likes of Mulgrew and Graham too however) and I think most if not all would agree with that.

My sole point was in regards to judging him after every game, everyone gets judged on every performance and thats how it will always be. Call a spade a spade, if someone plays poorly, as I and many others thought he did on Saturday, he will be judged as such. If he or anyone else plays well, they will be praised. I think the majority of fans have the ability to adapt their view from week to week, season to season. Look at Corry Evans, the most maligned player in the squad ahead of the season. Hes been given unanimous praise for his first 8 games this season. I thought Nyambe was a massive liability at one point, now I think he is a very competent full back. Dacks our best player and had a stinker the other night.

Im not sure that your comment on implying that the fans will get on Breretons back is fair either. 

[islander200]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I do agree with many of your points, notably that Brereton will improve with time, that he is part of a young, vibrant core (important to appreciate the experience of the likes of Mulgrew and Graham too however) and I think most if not all would agree with that.

My sole point was in regards to judging him after every game, everyone gets judged on every performance and thats how it will always be. Call a spade a spade, if someone plays poorly, as I and many others thought he did on Saturday, he will be judged as such. If he or anyone else plays well, they will be praised. I think the majority of fans have the ability to adapt their view from week to week, season to season. Look at Corry Evans, the most maligned player in the squad ahead of the season. Hes been given unanimous praise for his first 8 games this season. I thought Nyambe was a massive liability at one point, now I think he is a very competent full back. Dacks our best player and had a stinker the other night.

Im not sure that your comment on implying that the fans will get on Breretons back is fair either. 

The fans won't get on Brereton's back?Maybe not the majority but surely you see yourself some fans get into their head about a player and that's it,Look at Nyambe you changed your viewpoint about him but some fans still think he is crap and specifically targetted in matches and if any goal goes in its Nyambe's fault, that isnt just jal either.

Not blowing my own trumpet but i always saw the potential in Nyambe and backed him to get better and il back  my judgement on Brererton too.

Most forest fans were gutted he left and the majority of them said he always performed better when played up front.A couple have already suggested he is a bad signing when he hasn't even been given a proper run up front

[Bigdoggsteel]

55 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I disagree if you have constructive reasoning behind such an opinion. Brereton has a poor goal record for example, therefore questions may be raised about that. That said, theres a lot of potentially exciting aspects to the signing.

If Brereton scores the winner on Saturday and plays well, he will be judged positively on that individual performance, and judged negatively should he play poorly. Like anyone else.

My problem is when fans slate players without constructive reasoning. So I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with me about 

[SBlue]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Let’s not forget, people are free to post their opinions.

It’s my opinion that the remarks; “BB looks a strange signing” and unsuitable to a position are absurd.

As I previously stated, and a conversation I had on Saturday with either @K-Hod or @S8 & Blue or both, (was beer impaired mind) it was mentioned about BB’s reported fee possibly being heavily performance based and overblown for the forest fans.

I think people should be excited that we’ve added a potentially talented England youth and championship preened talent. Not; questioning the motives of the deal, offering hindsight opinions on better alternatives after less than a month or suggesting the lad can be written off in a position or style of play. Doesn’t mean I’m intent on shutting down those opinions, I’m just pointing out how they’re daft from my direction.

Quite exciting that we’ve added 4 players, including the 2 u23 lads from Walsall and Ireland, all upfront. Ambition to build depth in all positions. 

Much more exciting than Varney, Chris Brown, Delfonoeso and Stokes...

 

That sounds like some unsubstantiated feel good bullcrap I’d come out with.

But that was before the game, now I think he’s shit.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 hours ago, islander200 said:

He isnt an academy recruit Tyrone,he played 36 times for Forest in the championship last season.

You used to play didnt you?Then surely you can appreciate it will take a bit of time for Brereton to settle.He hadn't been involved with Forest this season so how can you expect him to have full match sharpness when he hasnt been playing.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are writing off Brereton after a max hour's playing time for us

I was commenting on another post regarding how we were recruiting young players for the academy. If this lad had cost us £500k nobody would be bothered how long it took him to find his way through to the first team, if he ever did. It would be worth the gamble. When we've spent £6 million on a player after all the seasons we've had recently were  £750k was a large fee expectations are bound to be really high. That goes with the territory I'm afraid. People say " Hang on, he's only played half an hour ". I say why is that , when he's our biggest signing since Rhodes ?

People also sat " Yeah but he won't be on big bucks ". Wether he is or not isn't really the issue. We needed a striker to work in conjunction  with Danny Graham  and I can't see that's what we've got at the moment.

Somebody else said " But he's a Young England International striker ".  So is Armstrong and he cost a quarter of Bereton's fee.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[JBiz]

36 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

My problem is when fans slate players without constructive reasoning. So I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with me about 

You mean like suggesting they had a “very poor” game?

Id call anything past “uneventful” as hyperbole personally. 

 

[SBlue]

21 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

People also sat " Yeah but he won't be on big bucks ". Wether he is or not isn't really the issue. We needed a striker to work in conjunction  with Danny Graham  and I can't see that's what we've got at the moment.

I just think a few of us are wondering how you could have come to this conclusion.

[islander200]

31 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I was commenting on another post regarding how we were recruiting young players for the academy. If this lad had cost us £500k nobody would be bothered how long it took him to find his way through to the first team, if he ever did. It would be worth the gamble. When we've spent £6 million on a player after all the seasons we've had recently were  £750k was a large fee expectations are bound to be really high. That goes with the territory I'm afraid. People say " Hang on, he's only played half an hour ". I say why is that , when he's our biggest signing since Rhodes ?

People also sat " Yeah but he won't be on big bucks ". Wether he is or not isn't really the issue. We needed a striker to work in conjunction  with Danny Graham  and I can't see that's what we've got at the moment.

Somebody else said " But he's a Young England International striker ".  So is Armstrong and he cost a quarter of Bereton's fee.

He hasnt even played an hour yet?He played wide in the Villa game how off that can you say he isnt capable of playing up front on his own, when you said you hadn't heard of him prior to the link?

As for why he hasn't played, you played the game didn't you so you should know its not easy to step in instantly when you are so far behind everyone else with match sharpness,Mowbray is always going on about the new signings needing to learn what he expects of them both reasonable reasons why he hasnt seen much game time 

Would you have preferred the money spent or not?Like i have said previously its a valid point that someone more experienced could have been brought in but there isnt many ready made target men that are any good that could havs been brought in on the wages we can offer.

It doesnt make Brererton a bad signing or a bad player and in time i can see him being able to do the role that Graham does,plenty of time for him to fill out and learn how to play that role properly.

Nothing wrong with the club buying potential we have a raft of young players with room for improvement and next season we could have a really good side who can sustain a promotion challenge.

As it stands i will put my house on it that this side won't be involved in a relegation battle,a top half finish would be a good season imo...plenty of times Mowbray has said in interviews that it will take 2 or 3 windows im sure he would have told the owners the same whilst in India

Edited September 20, 2018 by islander200

[Oldgregg86]

4 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Plays for England youth too.

So did Jason Lowe to add perspective

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He hasnt even played an hour yet?He played wide in the Villa game how off that can you say he isnt capable of playing up front on his own, when you said you hadn't heard of him prior to the link?

As for why he hasn't played, you played the game didn't you so you should know its not easy to step in instantly when you are so far behind everyone else with match sharpness,Mowbray is always going on about the new signings needing to learn what he expects of them both reasonable reasons why he hasnt seen much game time 

Would you have preferred the money spent or not?Like i have said previously its a valid point that someone more experienced could have been brought in but there isnt many ready made target men that are any good that could havs been brought in on the wages we can offer.

It doesnt make Brererton a bad signing or a bad player and in time i can see him being able to do the role that Graham does,plenty of time for him to fill out and learn how to play that role properly.

Nothing wrong with the club buying potential we have a raft of young players with room for improvement and next season we could have a really good side who can sustain a promotion challenge.

As it stands i will put my house on it that this side won't be involved in a relegation battle,a top half finish would be a good season imo...plenty of times Mowbray has said in interviews that it will take 2 or 3 windows im sure he would have told the owners the same whilst in India

Yeah it's tough moving teams especially when you're only young. Is he living in the area or is he travelling from the Midlands ?  I've worked away from home and living in hotels soon loses it glamour. The evenings are long and the hotel bar beckons. I've done the two hours plus drive to the Midlands and back on a daily basis and that's no better either. I'll cut him some slack for a few games but we really need him to be ready to lead the line as soon as he is able.

What I will say is there aren't many 19 yr old Danny Graham's, or even 21 year old Graham's for that matter. Regarding other guys we could have signed - I couldn't say. Who knows who could have been shaken out of the trees for £6million ?

Edited September 20, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yeah it's tough moving teams especially when you're only young. Is he living in the area or is he travelling from the Midlands ?  I've worked away from home and living in hotels soon loses it glamour. The evenings are long and the hotel bar beckons. I'll cut him some slack for a few games but we really need him to be ready to lead the line as soon as he is able.

What I will say is there aren't many 19 yr old Danny Graham's, or even 21 year old Graham's for that matter. Regarding other guys we could have signed - I couldn't say. Who knows who could have been shaken out of the trees for £6million ?

Its not the 6 million fee though, it's the wages aswell that a decent ready made striker would be looking for.We also have to take into account we have only just come up from League 1 and have had problems at the club, a more ready made player most likely would have more options and we wouldn't be at the top of his list.

Just my opinion but i would rather we took a calculated gamble on a player like Brererton who does have the potential to be a top player and a really assett to the club rather than forking out say 2 or 3 million on a bog standard 28 year old who has spent his career at mid to lower end championship clubs 

Someone said they saw him knocking about with Armstrong in Whalley so maybe living there. But yeah the move away cant have been easy and i think he said in an interview he didnt know anyone here

Edited September 20, 2018 by islander200