Ben Brereton Diaz

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Stuart said:

Yet it seems we are prepared to invest in developing a poorer Ben Brereton?

Is this an age-based decision?

Money and saving face decisions you would think.

Much easier to jettison Nuttall back to the under 23s or sell on than BB

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If you rolled Nuttall and Brereton into one you wouldn't have a Danny Graham. The difference is in the fullness of time we'll make a small amount of money on one of them and we'll lose our shirts on the other. I don't know what money Brereton is on but whatever it is it's too much.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, matt83 said:

At the moment Grabbi with his mighty 2 goals is pele compared to this bloke. That being said I’d be tempted to start him up front in each of the remaining games. Hopefully one ricochets of his shin or something and he gets some confidence and looks like a £7 million player.

My gut instinct is in 20 years time people will be talking about him as the worst signing in the clubs history. 

I saw Grabbi get three goals at least for the First Team.

[tomphil]

They've handled Brereton poor from start to finish and I don't care about Mowbray coming out with the stuff he has because i'm sure they actually thought he'd light up a game or two from some of his early cameo's and at least show potential.  I think some of the more recent comments actually allude to that as well as playing for more time 'next season' season after, future seasons etc etc

They've dropped a ball and they know it but have now plonked themselves in catch 22 as far as he's concerned. Got to use him a bit to justify it and maybe honour what's in the contract BUT he really should have spent the last 3rd of the season in the U23s scoring goals and building full match fitness then have a look at him through summer and decide whether to loan him out till Jan.

Won't do any of that though because it'll embarrass the hell out of them and probably get questioned by those who agreed to sanction the fee.  All will be ok on that score though when we sell someone else to cover it...............

I feel for the lad, it's a balls up end of !

 

[Stuart]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Money and saving face decisions you would think.

Much easier to jettison Nuttall back to the under 23s or sell on than BB

Ok, so not your opinion but your prediction. I think you are right.

The only credible reason would be age: that Joe has had three years longer than Ben.

Personally I agree with Biz that Nuttall has improved and has come on. I would question if Mowbray’s team are the right ones to developing either of them though. Johnson is doing a far better job.

Maybe this Summer’s big change needs to be replacing David Lowe with Damien Johnson.

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Johnson signed him. 

The club signed him. The club continues to employ and utilise him. 

Another example of the overall decent level of recruitment. I’m not suggesting it’s perfect and I’m sure we both know the club probably expected more from BB this year.

That doesn’t make it such a disaster in my opinion - criticism from certain posters is way OTT now, as it was premature back before he hadn’t even started a game for us!

Even if he never kicks on, how ridiculous is it to suggest “in 20 years time people will be talking about him as the worst signing in the clubs history” when Dixon Etuhu is fresh in memory. 

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

 you believe Brereton is on 3K a week which personally I think is laughable and very naïve 

 

I don’t think that at all. I don’t think he’s our top earner by any stretch either, however I’m sure any of those three players you mention would’ve at least be in the same bracket as Graham/Dack/Mulgrew- to convince them to join BRFC above any other top half championship team.

Naivity is how I’d describe the views who see transfer business as simple and easy. It’s as if you dismiss any competition, as if Chris Wilder isn’t a fantastic manager doing a great job.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, tomphil said:

They've handled Brereton poor from start to finish and I don't care about Mowbray coming out with the stuff he has because i'm sure they actually thought he'd light up a game or two from some of his early cameo's and at least show potential.  I think some of the more recent comments actually allude to that as well as playing for more time 'next season' season after, future seasons etc etc

They've dropped a ball and they know it but have now plonked themselves in catch 22 as far as he's concerned. Got to use him a bit to justify it and maybe honour what's in the contract BUT he really should have spent the last 3rd of the season in the U23s scoring goals and building full match fitness then have a look at him through summer and decide whether to loan him out till Jan.

Won't do any of that though because it'll embarrass the hell out of them and probably get questioned by those who agreed to sanction the fee.  All will be ok on that score though when we sell someone else to cover it...............

I feel for the lad, it's a balls up end of !

 

Agree, not BB's fault at all. BRFC massively overpaid on a lad who shouldn't have cost more than £500k. Why did Waggott and Mowbray do it? Because they had money to to spend, they were expected to spend it and they'd drawn a blank with their main targets Freeman and Celina and the rest. It was a panic buy and Forest had our pants down. 

[Mattyblue]

End of the day we’ve dodged a bullet this season due to the resilience and enduring quality of Danny Graham.

His ‘back ups’ just aren’t at the required level, not their fault, they are largely inexperienced/young lads, but that’s who’s been recruited, and a bad injury to him at any point would’ve have left us seriously exposed. 

More experience must be brought in.

 

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, Biz said:

I don’t think that at all. I don’t think he’s our top earner by any stretch either, 

Well you said before that you thought that he was on around 3K. So how much do you now think he is on a week then?

[Tom]

Quite a tumbling from grace for this lad, in August he was in the England youth squad and talked about for a £7m deal

The deal happens, he misses a penalty for England and then it’s all downhill from there, really couldn’t have gone any worse if we are honest 

[JBiz]

 

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Well you said before that you thought that he was on around 3K. So how much do you now think he is on a week then?

I’m not wasting more time on this thread talking about assumed figures. Like I said, I don’t think he’s one of the top earners. 

 

[tomphil]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

End of the day we’ve dodged a bullet this season due to the resilience and enduring quality of Danny Graham.

His ‘back ups’ just aren’t at the required level, not their fault, they are largely inexperienced/young lads, but that’s who’s been recruited, and a bad injury to him at any point would’ve have left us seriously exposed. 

More experience must be brought in.

 

Mostly agree although with BB I don't class him as Grahams back up because of the way he's been used. Hardly a sniff up top and system hasn't been altered to try and suit him better when he's come on even if Graham is off.  Dack shoved up top pointlessly in the DG role and Brereton shoved wide.

Yet when the odd glimpses there have been from him are when he's got himself into central positions in the box.

Poor handling I really don't know what they expected to happen with the way its been done but they've certainly created a confidence crushing situation for him rather than the other way round.

[Mattyblue]

If BB has been brought in as a ‘wide forward’ that makes the lack of cover for Graham even more pronounced.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Biz said:

 

I’m not wasting more time on this thread talking about assumed figures. Like I said, I don’t think he’s one of the top earners. 

 

But when you say you don't think he is one of our top earners you are assuming. Personally I would have thought an England Youth international bought for £7 Million would be on a good amount of money a week.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

But when you say you don't think he is one of our top earners you are assuming. Personally I would have thought an England Youth international bought for £7 Million would be on a good amount of money a week.

What car does he drive ? That'll be a clue.

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

But when you say you don't think he is one of our top earners you are assuming. Personally I would have thought an England Youth international bought for £7 Million would be on a good amount of money a week.

As Waggott spelled out in an interview, the pot of cash we had to spend was for fees and wages. 

From my perspective we missed out on the Bamford’s and Celina’s et al because we didn’t have the fee AND the wages to pull this ilk in.

 

[47er]

2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Nuttall was on even less the other night but made a goal.

 

 

We could have got at least 3 maybe 4 good Championship players who unlike Brereton would have been of use this season.

These points are true and unarguable. Nothing to suggest this isn't a big clanger.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Yet it seems we are prepared to invest in developing a poorer Ben Brereton?

Is this an age-based decision?

No its a wages-based decision! (apparently)

 

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

As Waggott spelled out in an interview, the pot of cash we had to spend was for fees and wages. 

From my perspective we missed out on the Bamford’s and Celina’s et al because we didn’t have the fee AND the wages to pull this ilk in.

Celina cost £3 Million and like Brereton (who cost £7 Million) is on a 4 year contract, do you really think he is earning over £1 Million a year more than Brereton?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Celina cost £3 Million and like Brereton (who cost £7 Million) is on a 4 year contract, do you really think he is earning over £1 Million a year more than Brereton?

Could be close enough to it. Let's say Brereton is on 10 grand and Celina is on 25 grand. That's 15 extra per week, so 15,000 x 52 weeks equals 780,000 more per season. 

It's plausible. There was plenty of competition for Celina and as such his wages would be higher than you might expect.  He left man city and Swansea have that sweet parachute money. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Could be close enough to it. Let's say Brereton is on 10 grand and Celina is on 25 grand. That's 15 extra per week, so 15,000 x 52 weeks equals 780,000 more per season. 

That's still 22% short of a £1 Million extra a year which would still only make their wages and fee combined equal. Then you have on the pitch where Celina has had an impact unlike Brereton.

[Stuart]

45 minutes ago, 47er said:

No its a wages-based decision! (apparently)

Brereton being on less than Nuttall you mean?

On account of the “flex”.

Yeah. If only we’d have paid more for Nuttall, we could have offered him a lower wage.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

That's still 22% short of a £1 Million extra a year which would still only make their wages and fee combined equal. Then you have on the pitch where Celina has had an impact unlike Brereton.

It's still close enough and he could even be on more. At those figures Brereton cost a million more over a 4 year contract. 

He has had an impact, but I'm sure Swansea fans are disappointed with how much. 

He looked good against us second half when we played them 

[JBiz]

19 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Celina cost £3 Million and like Brereton (who cost £7 Million) is on a 4 year contract, do you really think he is earning over £1 Million a year more than Brereton?

I don’t think it would be far off.

You've also got to take into account the relative “pull” of clubs in regards to recent stature and wage bill. I know some here cannot accept that we aren’t going to be seen by players (and agents) as a favourite to get into the premier league.

Signing a new player on 25k a week when the rest of your key players are on 15/20 will also cost you a dollop in renewals.

Just now, Stuart said:

Brereton being on less than Nuttall you mean?

On account of the “flex”.

Yeah. If only we’d have paid more for Nuttall, we could have offered him a lower wage.

Deep

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Could be close enough to it. Let's say Brereton is on 10 grand and Celina is on 25 grand. That's 15 extra per week, so 15,000 x 52 weeks equals 780,000 more per season. 

It's plausible. There was plenty of competition for Celina and as such his wages would be higher than you might expect.  He left man city and Swansea have that sweet parachute money. 

It made no sense to prioritise a number 10 considering our best player plays there, but your figures are totally pie in the sky estimates. Swansea have been heavily cost cutting, selling all their assets and leaving Graham Potter with a very modest budget, so I have big doubts that your estimates are correct.

No one is saying that player recruitment is easy, but to suggest that we couldnt have done better with 7m and a competitive wage than signing a striker who has not scored, who has not offered the tiniest bit of competition to our excellent but veteran striker, who has not offered any glimpses of any attributes or talent that can be nurtured and who has looked quite frankly embarrassingly out of his depth every time he has stepped onto the pitch is absolute bullshit, (Im not saying you are suggesting that btw, just a general point)

He is a young lad I get that, but hes not a Championship novice, and many seem insistent on removing any room for him to be criticised.